Is obeying rulers required in Islam?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mustafa16
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 29
  • Views Views 5K
anatolian said:
Are you still in the Gülen jamaat?
Click to expand...
i still have reservations and anger concerning answering that question considering you called them "wicked" gulen jamaat. but i feel obligated to reply. i am merely a sympathizer and skeptic at the same time. i feel bad for all the tens of thousands of journalists, professors, doctors, nurses, teachers, union workers, writers, businessmen who have to endure erdogan's purge and get arrested and tortured, and i hate erdogan's guts for it, and i dont believe gulen jamaat was ever a terror organization, nor do i believe the 17 25 operations were a coup, nor do i believe the MIT crisis of 2014 was a coup, nor do I believe fethullah gulen carried out the 2016 coup, nor do i believe they are a sadistic cult that "tells its members who to marry, what to do to the minutest detail, etc." however, i feel that gulen jamaat should not have entered politics per ustad (Bediuzzaman said nursi)'s warning, I believe some of their religious beliefs are flawed, I believe they venerate Fethullah Gulen too much, nonetheless I feel as if the purges going on are not a punishment from Allah but rather a cleasning process and a test from Allah, and I respect many aspects of Hizmet, however I do not attend any of their events, although I would marry a Gulen jamaat member.

anatolian said:
Are you still in the Gülen jamaat?
Click to expand...
I also dont believe they stole university entrance exam questions

or if they did, it was the insincere ones who later defected @anatolian

anatolian said:
Are you still in the Gülen jamaat?
Click to expand...
aw, forget m earlier reply, yes, i am, and proud of it.....i dont believe the 17 25 operations were a coup, i dont believe the 2014 MIT crisis was a coup, I dont believe the 2016 coup was carried out by fethullah gulen, i dont believe they are a cult, i dont believe they are told by abis and ablas who to marry and what to do to the minutest detail and abused, etc. i feel sorry for the victims of erdogans purge.........i feel that gulenism has been the target of a smear campaign and a witch hunt, and i dont believe they are a parallel state, and i feel they are one of the most charitable faces of islam around, and mos idealistic and i believe their goals are honorable...i dont believe they want to take over the world, i believe they want charity and peaceful coexistence, and have been the victims of themselves being ahead of their time in their own land.......ahead of their people.......they tried to warn their people, and got brutally assaulted for it.....because thats what happens to all warners including the Prophets (peace be Upon them All). we are not a parallel state.
 
If they rule by the law of Allah and pray then you have to obey them. And if revolting is going to cause a greater fitnah then you just have to be patient and steadfast and make dua for relief.
 
Misbah-Abd said:
If they rule by the law of Allah and pray then you have to obey them. And if revolting is going to cause a greater fitnah then you just have to be patient and steadfast and make dua for relief.
Click to expand...

One must obey Allah, but If one has the power he will be the new ruler. But if you don't have the power, obey and you will live longer. Look what's happening in Syria. The rebels might be right, but they lack the power so they are being destroyed.
 
Mustafa16 said:
i still have reservations and anger concerning answering that question considering you called them "wicked" gulen jamaat. but i feel obligated to reply. i am merely a sympathizer and skeptic at the same time. i feel bad for all the tens of thousands of journalists, professors, doctors, nurses, teachers, union workers, writers, businessmen who have to endure erdogan's purge and get arrested and tortured, and i hate erdogan's guts for it, and i dont believe gulen jamaat was ever a terror organization, nor do i believe the 17 25 operations were a coup, nor do i believe the MIT crisis of 2014 was a coup, nor do I believe fethullah gulen carried out the 2016 coup, nor do i believe they are a sadistic cult that "tells its members who to marry, what to do to the minutest detail, etc." however, i feel that gulen jamaat should not have entered politics per ustad (Bediuzzaman said nursi)'s warning, I believe some of their religious beliefs are flawed, I believe they venerate Fethullah Gulen too much, nonetheless I feel as if the purges going on are not a punishment from Allah but rather a cleasning process and a test from Allah, and I respect many aspects of Hizmet, however I do not attend any of their events, although I would marry a Gulen jamaat member.

I also dont believe they stole university entrance exam questions

or if they did, it was the insincere ones who later defected @anatolian

aw, forget m earlier reply, yes, i am, and proud of it.....i dont believe the 17 25 operations were a coup, i dont believe the 2014 MIT crisis was a coup, I dont believe the 2016 coup was carried out by fethullah gulen, i dont believe they are a cult, i dont believe they are told by abis and ablas who to marry and what to do to the minutest detail and abused, etc. i feel sorry for the victims of erdogans purge.........i feel that gulenism has been the target of a smear campaign and a witch hunt, and i dont believe they are a parallel state, and i feel they are one of the most charitable faces of islam around, and mos idealistic and i believe their goals are honorable...i dont believe they want to take over the world, i believe they want charity and peaceful coexistence, and have been the victims of themselves being ahead of their time in their own land.......ahead of their people.......they tried to warn their people, and got brutally assaulted for it.....because thats what happens to all warners including the Prophets (peace be Upon them All). we are not a parallel state.
Click to expand...

It was a just a question that I was interested to know bro. You have a very deep anger towards Erdo and AKP considering them unjust and cruel. So you also do not believe your Gülen jamaat did all the same things Erdo and AKP are now doing? You do not believe they made fake coup attempt accusations on Kemalist soldiers, statesmen ,politicians and journalists with fake evidences with the so called names of "Erkenekon" and "Balyoz" to eliminate them and replace them with their Gülenist ones? Some of these people were sick and died in the prisons for nothing. You also do not believe they did all these things together with Erdo and AKP for ten years 2003-2013 until they fell to each other in 2013?

You know there is a saying in Turkish "Ne ekersen onu biçersin/you harvest what you sow"..This is called divine justice and Fethullah Gülen and his criminal members are just facing this. Ofcourse they have good and sincere ones like you and Erdo's fight with all members who did not even commit any crime is cruel and unjust but you need to see Allah's plan in the greater map. There is no diffreence between Feto and Erdo..
 
Quick question, Are we commanded to obey rulers while Allah wages war against them?
 
anatolian said:
It was a just a question that I was interested to know bro. You have a very deep anger towards Erdo and AKP considering them unjust and cruel. So you also do not believe your Gülen jamaat did all the same things Erdo and AKP are now doing? You do not believe they made fake coup attempt accusations on Kemalist soldiers, statesmen ,politicians and journalists with fake evidences with the so called names of "Erkenekon" and "Balyoz" to eliminate them and replace them with their Gülenist ones? Some of these people were sick and died in the prisons for nothing. You also do not believe they did all these things together with Erdo and AKP for ten years 2003-2013 until they fell to each other in 2013?

You know there is a saying in Turkish "Ne ekersen onu biçersin/you harvest what you sow"..This is called divine justice and Fethullah Gülen and his criminal members are just facing this. Ofcourse they have good and sincere ones like you and Erdo's fight with all members who did not even commit any crime is cruel and unjust but you need to see Allah's plan in the greater map. There is no diffreence between Feto and Erdo..
Click to expand...
true, perhaps it is a punishment from Allah.
 
Karl said:
One must obey Allah, but If one has the power he will be the new ruler. But if you don't have the power, obey and you will live longer. Look what's happening in Syria. The rebels might be right, but they lack the power so they are being destroyed.
Click to expand...

What you just said shows a fundamental problem with understanding of Islam, "They lack power" Allah is with the Moumineen not the Mushrikin and Nusayris they may have planes and numbers but they lack faith and justice they will lose no matter what.
 
JustTime said:
What you just said shows a fundamental problem with understanding of Islam, "They lack power" Allah is with the Moumineen not the Mushrikin and Nusayris they may have planes and numbers but they lack faith and justice they will lose no matter what.
Click to expand...

I recall reading an Islamic website that said it was prophesized Muslims would lose against Assad (Sunnis said this) the sufyani but the mahdi would emerge anyway
 
Mustafa16 said:
I recall reading an Islamic website that said it was prophesized Muslims would lose against Assad (Sunnis said this) the sufyani but the mahdi would emerge anyway
Click to expand...

No, Allah would never allow the Muslims to lose no matter what in such a sacred land, victory isn't measured by strength, land, or weapons it is measured by Allah. The believers will be victorious after a series of trials then Jesus will ascend in the Masjid of Damascus with the White Minaret and lead the believers.
 
JustTime said:
What you just said shows a fundamental problem with understanding of Islam, "They lack power" Allah is with the Moumineen not the Mushrikin and Nusayris they may have planes and numbers but they lack faith and justice they will lose no matter what.
Click to expand...

Allah is the judge to which side is righteous. There is so much propaganda and lies in the media that I wouldn't have a clue who are the goodies and baddies. Probably both sides are baddies. One thing I do know is that the real goodies only win in fairy tales. And of course the victorious are always the goodies because they write the history of how good they are. Maybe all this war and slaughter is Gods will because we do have limited space and resources on this planet. I do have a theory, it might be crazy, but maybe the plants release some kind of drug into the atmosphere to drive people mad and they kill each other, so the plants are replenished with blood and bone as fertilizer.
 
The only ones that do win on the battlefield are the Mujahadeen. They never lose because if they die they are shaheeds and if they win on the battlefield they help to establish the law of Allah on earth and get tremendous rewards for that. And Allah Knows Best.
 
Karl said:
One must obey Allah, but If one has the power he will be the new ruler. But if you don't have the power, obey and you will live longer. Look what's happening in Syria. The rebels might be right, but they lack the power so they are being destroyed.
Click to expand...
Power is essential to win the fight though but one simple point you are missing to ponder is the manhaj as defined for seeking divine help in war which probably rebels are missing.
 
Karl said:
Allah is the judge to which side is righteous. There is so much propaganda and lies in the media that I wouldn't have a clue who are the goodies and baddies. Probably both sides are baddies. One thing I do know is that the real goodies only win in fairy tales. And of course the victorious are always the goodies because they write the history of how good they are. Maybe all this war and slaughter is Gods will because we do have limited space and resources on this planet. I do have a theory, it might be crazy, but maybe the plants release some kind of drug into the atmosphere to drive people mad and they kill each other, so the plants are replenished with blood and bone as fertilizer.
Click to expand...
You have been poisoned by the lies of Shaytan and the propagators of the Dajjal that's what they want you to think.

You should be ashamed of yourself for posting such ignorant things, Wallahi there is nothing I can't stand more than the excuse that some propagandist is more powerful than one's own Fitra that Allah created. And there is nothing I hate more than a lying conspiracy theorist who's own soul has betrayed him against Islam.

You should be ashamed Wallahi learn about Islam read the Quran and Hadiths stop listening to lying Christians and disbelievers.

- - - Updated - - -

Mustafa16 said:
I recall reading an Islamic website that said it was prophesized Muslims would lose against Assad (Sunnis said this) the sufyani but the mahdi would emerge anyway
Click to expand...

To elaborate further on my previous comment, firstly the "Sufyani" is not something every scholar or Muslim from Ahlus Sunnah believes in, I for one do but there is no consensus about the Sufyani there are other Hadiths and prophecies of a man with similar characteristics and doing similar crimes but he isn't generally mentioned by name. And yes the Muslims who fight him for a certain time will be defeated whilst fighting one another but the Prophet :saws1: said both groups fighting are Muslim.

But in a later time Jesus will ascend in Damascus and lead the Muslims to total victory over the world, so in this sense indeed the Muslims will be victorious but only with patience.
 
Last edited:
JustTime said:
You have been poisoned by the lies of Shaytan and the propagators of the Dajjal that's what they want you to think.

You should be ashamed of yourself for posting such ignorant things, Wallahi there is nothing I can't stand more than the excuse that some propagandist is more powerful than one's own Fitra that Allah created. And there is nothing I hate more than a lying conspiracy theorist who's own soul has betrayed him against Islam.

You should be ashamed Wallahi learn about Islam read the Quran and Hadiths stop listening to lying Christians and disbelievers.

- - - Updated - - -



To elaborate further on my previous comment, firstly the "Sufyani" is not something every scholar or Muslim from Ahlus Sunnah believes in, I for one do but there is no consensus about the Sufyani there are other Hadiths and prophecies of a man with similar characteristics and doing similar crimes but he isn't generally mentioned by name. And yes the Muslims who fight him for a certain time will be defeated whilst fighting one another but the Prophet :saws1: said both groups fighting are Muslim.

But in a later time Jesus will ascend in Damascus and lead the Muslims to total victory over the world, so in this sense indeed the Muslims will be victorious but only with patience.
Click to expand...
Shaykh Badiuzzaman Said Nursi mentioned two dajjals, one, the Sufyan which was mentioned by Ali (Badiuzzaman, he wasn't a shia, he was a sunni sufi), who would deceive the Muslims, as written in the 5th ray, of the risale i nur, who would emerge from Khorosan, and destroy places of worship, and make blood shedding halal, and destroy schools and madrassas, and oppress the Muslims, and have four periods of despotism according to the hadeeth "the dajjal will rule for 40 days, his first a year, his second a month, his third a week, and the rest all days" meaning that in the first term, every year he will accomplish what could not be accomplished except in 400 years, the next term 40 years, the next 10, and the last struggling to hold on to power. he also mentioned the world kufr written on his forehead as meaning that he will force Muslims to wear non Islamic headgear, but said "allahu alem" (hence why his early disciples said he was referring to Ataturk in secret), and thatt his left eye being swollen like a grapefruit meaning he will be materialistic, and his right eye being defective being he will blind to the hereafter, and him being a scholar......but said nursi interpreted this as being a scholar of politics...? something like that.....correct me if im wrong.......he did say it would be a scholar, but i saw people online saying this profile among other descriptions shaykh said gave fitting the description of Erdogan(from georgia...khorosan origin in hadeeth????), while others say it was Ataturk, and Shaykh Said said the other dajjal was the great dajjal who would deceive the whole world, especially the christians, and some nurcus interpreted this as being a "committee of dajjal" starting from charles darwin and ending in mao" others say it was hitler, others say it was stalin (born in georgia...khorosan origin in hadeeth?????) or hasnt come yet.......correct me if im wrong, im concerned is this heresy?
 
Mustafa16 said:
Shaykh Badiuzzaman Said Nursi mentioned two dajjals, one, the Sufyan which was mentioned by Ali (Badiuzzaman, he wasn't a shia, he was a sunni sufi), who would deceive the Muslims, as written in the 5th ray, of the risale i nur, who would emerge from Khorosan, and destroy places of worship, and make blood shedding halal, and destroy schools and madrassas, and oppress the Muslims, and have four periods of despotism according to the hadeeth "the dajjal will rule for 40 days, his first a year, his second a month, his third a week, and the rest all days" meaning that in the first term, every year he will accomplish what could not be accomplished except in 400 years, the next term 40 years, the next 10, and the last struggling to hold on to power. he also mentioned the world kufr written on his forehead as meaning that he will force Muslims to wear non Islamic headgear, but said "allahu alem" (hence why his early disciples said he was referring to Ataturk in secret), and thatt his left eye being swollen like a grapefruit meaning he will be materialistic, and his right eye being defective being he will blind to the hereafter, and him being a scholar......but said nursi interpreted this as being a scholar of politics...? something like that.....correct me if im wrong.......he did say it would be a scholar, but i saw people online saying this profile among other descriptions shaykh said gave fitting the description of Erdogan(from georgia...khorosan origin in hadeeth????), while others say it was Ataturk, and Shaykh Said said the other dajjal was the great dajjal who would deceive the whole world, especially the christians, and some nurcus interpreted this as being a "committee of dajjal" starting from charles darwin and ending in mao" others say it was hitler, others say it was stalin (born in georgia...khorosan origin in hadeeth?????) or hasnt come yet.......correct me if im wrong, im concerned is this heresy?
Click to expand...

I think you have read Shia sources, the Shias believe that the Dajjal's forces come from Khorasan, Yemen, and Sham. In fact one Shia Hadith says that it is like the cross on a rosary.

As for Erdogan, firstly Georgia is not Khorasan, Khorasan is Afghanistan and Central Asia, secondly Erdogan is not a good man nor is he ally to the Muslims and God knows best if he is one of the 30 Dajjals however do consider that is has been said Muslims would clash with one another whilst adhering to the same religious principles and some in Syria support him while others don't for various reasons, God knows best.
 
JustTime said:
I think you have read Shia sources, the Shias believe that the Dajjal's forces come from Khorasan, Yemen, and Sham. In fact one Shia Hadith says that it is like the cross on a rosary.

As for Erdogan, firstly Georgia is not Khorasan, Khorasan is Afghanistan and Central Asia, secondly Erdogan is not a good man nor is he ally to the Muslims and God knows best if he is one of the 30 Dajjals however do consider that is has been said Muslims would clash with one another whilst adhering to the same religious principles and some in Syria support him while others don't for various reasons, God knows best.
Click to expand...
No, Said Nursi was a Shafi Sunni Kurd......of the Ashari school of Aqeedah......he talked about the mistakes of the shias in his book the Gleams (also known as "the flashes")

JustTime said:
I think you have read Shia sources, the Shias believe that the Dajjal's forces come from Khorasan, Yemen, and Sham. In fact one Shia Hadith says that it is like the cross on a rosary.

As for Erdogan, firstly Georgia is not Khorasan, Khorasan is Afghanistan and Central Asia, secondly Erdogan is not a good man nor is he ally to the Muslims and God knows best if he is one of the 30 Dajjals however do consider that is has been said Muslims would clash with one another whilst adhering to the same religious principles and some in Syria support him while others don't for various reasons, God knows best.
Click to expand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Said_Nursî

JustTime said:
I think you have read Shia sources, the Shias believe that the Dajjal's forces come from Khorasan, Yemen, and Sham. In fact one Shia Hadith says that it is like the cross on a rosary.

As for Erdogan, firstly Georgia is not Khorasan, Khorasan is Afghanistan and Central Asia, secondly Erdogan is not a good man nor is he ally to the Muslims and God knows best if he is one of the 30 Dajjals however do consider that is has been said Muslims would clash with one another whilst adhering to the same religious principles and some in Syria support him while others don't for various reasons, God knows best.
Click to expand...
sorry, my bad said nursi didn't talk about MISTAKES of shias...he talked about why they were wrong....
 
Mustafa16 said:
No, Said Nursi was a Shafi Sunni Kurd......of the Ashari school of Aqeedah......he talked about the mistakes of the shias in his book the Gleams (also known as "the flashes")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Said_Nursî


sorry, my bad said nursi didn't talk about MISTAKES of shias...he talked about why they were wrong....
Click to expand...
I would not take him seriously

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR][TD]Said Nursî - Wikipedia
...[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top