Is the Creation vs Evolution/Darwinism up to interpretation ?

truthseeker63

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Is the Creation vs Evolution/Darwinism DNA evidence/Fossil evidence and or how Life got here for example up to People's/Human/Human's interpretation of the evidence what I mean is both Creationists/Evolutionists/Darwinists both have the same evidence but different interpretations of the same evidence do both sides admit this thank you ?
 
This will answer everything, every questionn regarding creationism vs chaos / evollution vs intelligent design etc etc etc... And all from scientific as well as philosophical and religious rebuttals... it's about time you had those questions answered once and for all:


WARNING: Atheists are not gonna be happy after this documentary...

Scimitar Productions on behalf of Alimane Studios.
 
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I think, before discussing specific theories such as Darwinian evolution, it is more important to first address the principles underlying modern science and compare them with the principles underlying faith. In the face of modern materialism, I think Islam and Christianity can say very much the same thing: God is the creator and sustainer of everything we see and it is folly to try to understand any created thing as existing independently of God. This doesn't mean that modern science is completely false- obviously it has many useful insights- but its premise is deeply flawed and can result in some very distorted conclusions about man, nature, and the universe. In fact the basic natural philosophy of modern science is largely the same as that of Epicurus, the materialist philosopher of ancient Greece, who was functionally an atheist and who taught that pleasure was the highest good in life.
 
Nothing can come from nothing.

Something must come from something.

Something cannot come from nothing.

You think therefore you exist.

Existence is something.

The universe is something.

The universe, something,

must have come from something.

Time/space must have come from something.

That something must be Above time/space.

The Source must be Eternal and Infinite

If it is Above time/space.

Thus, God is Eternal, All Powerful, and Infinite.
 
I think, before discussing specific theories such as Darwinian evolution, it is more important to first address the principles underlying modern science and compare them with the principles underlying faith. In the face of modern materialism, I think Islam and Christianity can say very much the same thing: God is the creator and sustainer of everything we see and it is folly to try to understand any created thing as existing independently of God. This doesn't mean that modern science is completely false- obviously it has many useful insights- but its premise is deeply flawed and can result in some very distorted conclusions about man, nature, and the universe. In fact the basic natural philosophy of modern science is largely the same as that of Epicurus, the materialist philosopher of ancient Greece, who was functionally an atheist and who taught that pleasure was the highest good in life.

These points are covered in the documentary, it's really interesting.

To sum it up, the philosophy behind science in modern times is a flawed one.

Ask any atheist scientist "Is the idea of God an unscientific or scientific concept?" and just listen to their answer.

Scimi
 
may Allah reward you for passing oon the video scimi,
it is so detailed and confirms much of what we knew to be true - and then goes on to completely prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the random selection theory is a fraud.
one thing i didn't see it mention though is that these atheism pushers tell us that we can only use observable material evidence - therefore God doesn't fit in,
firstly - scientists don't normally come to conclusions or make new inventions without an "x" factor taken into account,
secondly - they conjured up the multi-universe theory just to somehow hold up the improbability - with no observable material evidence.

i recommend anyone interested in the subject to look at the arguments put forward in the video as it is an eye-opener.
 
Yes, good points bro. The reason why they do that (observable material evidence) is because the philosophy behind modern science is a compromised one. There's a thread on WUP that just got started yesterday dealing with this specific issue. It was started by a member called Zavier - a supposed ex-Muslim, lol... talks a lot of smack from a scientific POV. So, I decided to address the issue of Scientific Philosophy and cornered her. Now she's off hiding and preparing a decent (in her mind anyway) rebuttle.

Modern Scientific Enquiry is a fail for so many reasons. let's take the issue of dark/anti matter and see how the "scientists" lay claim to fact when I happen to know that CERN is scratching their heads and farting over the study of it. It's just pathetic bro. Sure, it exists - but to lay claim to its properties and nature is a whole new bag, and one that doesn't carry a label just yet (pardon the pun analogy)

Scimi

EDIT: check this duscussion out:

http://www.wup-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=22040
 
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Is the Creation vs Evolution/Darwinism DNA evidence/Fossil evidence and or how Life got here for example up to People's/Human/Human's interpretation of the evidence what I mean is both Creationists/Evolutionists/Darwinists both have the same evidence but different interpretations of the same evidence do both sides admit this thank you ?

Good question. I'll do my best to give you a straight answer to the best of my knowledge.

First of all I think we should be clear about what is meant by the terms: 'Darwinism'/ Evolution and 'Creationism' by attempting to mull over the most often-made (or ill-advised) interpretations of these phrases. Hopefully that way, you can have a good framework on which to hang your understanding. In addition, I'll be introducing another term called abiogenesis.

'Darwinism' is a term used most often by religious people as part of an attempt to undermine proponents of Darwin's work by implying that their adherance to his theories represents some kind of 'cult' following. Very often, it seems to imply that science is 'just another set of beliefs' (as with the case of religion). This is misleading because scientists do not (at least should not) rely upon supernatural beliefs, or indeed any assumptions of the sort not supported by observation, in order to generate conclusions.

Evolution represents a scientifically understood set of processes by which all life on earth undergoes a slow transformation in order to adapt to it's surroundings. It is not a means by which to explain how life got here in the first place. Evolutional theory uses natural selection to explain how change comes about in species over very long periods of time. Since we have very good estimates as to how old the Earth is, we find more than enough time to allow for these slow changes to have occurred. Because it can also be easily observed over short periods of time as well, both inside and outside of the laboratory nowadays, it's really not something we need be to be too concerned about, when it comes to it's veracity. There is very little there to contradict the presence of a divine creator. Once they understand the theory, many religious people find themselves quite at ease with the idea that God might have willed evolution to occur - as 'part of His plan'.

Abiogenesis is a natural science study which begets a theory of how biological life originated on earth. It attempts to explain how biological life can arise from organic matter, via a set of natural processes. Evidence for the Theory Of Abiogenesis is altogether a much more challenging prospect for a creationist, although strangely, I hardly ever hear them mention it. As with evolution, many religious people, (again - once they understand it's principles) do not find it hard to accept as part of God's plan. Though admittedly, it's estimated time-framework does require some modicum of flexibility with regards to the Biblical 'truism': "God Created the Earth in six days and rested on the seventh". Unless one is fully able to believe the Earth is much younger than our evidence suggests - it isn't difficult by using a little reasoning to interpret the book of Genesis as possessing something of a metaphorical slant. Personally, I would say 'mythical' - but that's just me.

Possibly the most difficult hurdle for the creationist to overcome with abiogenesis and evolution when put together, is the discovery that single-celled organisms can mutate and eventually become animals. There is, indeed, a lot of strong evidence for it but as with all sciences of this nature, it would require some dedicated study for any creationist to fully appreciate.


Now to answer your question...

both have the same evidence but different interpretations of the same evidence

I think the question should be whether both sides are really in reciept of the evidence. Scientists argue from a point of view which has been informed by the evidence, while creationists argue from a point of view which has been entreated by holy scripture. In all too many cases, creationists do not consult so much as a scientific peer review. I suppose it's comparable with the person who does not read a holy book before condemning it on aetheistic principle. Though to be fair, I think most of us have, during our formative years, recieved some form of religious instruction in addition to our science lessons at school.

In all the years I've been arguing in favour of scientific principles over the theological, I have not once come across a creationist who offered me their own unique interpretation of what it could all mean. Rather, I have encountered plenty of ideas of how evolution could fit in with their religious world view. Which to me is fine, if they want to believe that.

Perhaps I should mention some Jehovah's Witnesses who came to my doorstep, merrily proclaiming that fossil evidence had been planted by Satan who, at the time was disguised as an alien in a flying saucer, who drilled deep into the rock to plant an assortment of fake dinosaur bones to confuse us....
though I'm inclined to think we are safe to reserve that one for some after-dinner amusement. ;D

You see, in order to interpret that evidence at all, one has to sit down and actually examine it - and all too many who argue for creation simply don't do that, but rely instead on quotes from their holy scriptures or numerous 'anti-Darwinian' publications made by and for religious institutions, without ever consulting a scientific peer journal or standard textbook on the subject.

On the one hand, you find people who dismiss it out of hand, usually because they've been taught not to trust scientists or perhaps they've been told that scientists are somehow 'the enemy of faith; of God, or what-have-you... On the other hand, sure, there have been those who, once they've made an attempt to understand it, have offered me their unique hypothesis of how it might fit into their own model of a God-made Universe. By reasoning that, since evolution doesn't seem to contradict God's plan, they could happily accept it as part of that plan. It doesn't necessarily make them right - but they have at least demonstrated a willingness to take the trouble to understand what evolution is and what it isn't.

Though to address the crux of the question bluntly, I would have to posit that the overwhelming evidence for evolution and for abiogenesis need not be interpreted in any other way than it already has. That's because the evidence clearly supports the theory, beyond the point of reasonable doubt. If the evidence had not supported the theory - or worse, had contradicted it - then the theory would have been thrown out by now. Along with all the many other ideas which have been discarded when proven incorrect.

You see, such is the overwhelming nature of the evidence, that in order to fully disbelieve the Theory Of Evolution, one would have to either deny the very existence of the supporting evidence... or ignore it completely.

I hope this answers your question satisfactorily but if you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them. Either way, thank you for reading.

R.M.
 
Ugh .. another unseasoned militant atheist with the same old recycled rhetoric .. Somebody link the poor sap with the zillion threads on the matter. I don't know that I can take reading that same old mindless drivel
 
Yes, good points bro. The reason why they do that (observable material evidence) is because the philosophy behind modern science is a compromised one. There's a thread on WUP that just got started yesterday dealing with this specific issue. It was started by a member called Zavier - a supposed ex-Muslim, lol... talks a lot of smack from a scientific POV. So, I decided to address the issue of Scientific Philosophy and cornered her. Now she's off hiding and preparing a decent (in her mind anyway) rebuttle

EDIT: check this duscussion out:

To be fair, I find your rebuttal of Xavier's post infinitely more flawed than her opening statement. I'm also not sure about the precise level of honour involved in cross posting between forums with the intention of mocking a fellow user behind their back.
 
Ugh .. another unseasoned militant atheist with the same old recycled rhetoric .. Somebody link the poor sap with the zillion threads on the matter. I don't know that I can take reading that same old mindless drivel

Why, thank you. It's nice to know that you can reason on a mature level, without casting meaningless insults.
 
Why, thank you. It's nice to know that you can reason on a mature level, without casting meaningless insults.
how about something a little less scripted? Surely you can up with some abstract thoughts that aren't in your manifesto? You're welcome to our search feature .. I think it pays to read more and cut & paste less .. I promise nothing you've written above is in anyway new or hasn't been thoroughly challenged .. Just so you're not wasting your time and worst yet ours!

Best,
 
Surely you can up with some abstract thoughts that aren't in your manifesto?
I don't know that I can take reading that same old mindless drivel

I trust you'll forgive me - but judging by your hasty reply and after reading the above sentence, I can't help but wonder how little time you might have spent reading the whole of my post thoroughly, before condemning it as 'mindless drivel'. ;D
 
I trust you'll forgive me - but judging by your hasty reply and after reading the above sentence, I can't help but wonder how little time you might have spent reading the whole of my post thoroughly, before condemning it as 'mindless drivel'. ;D
see link I enclosed above-- and tomorrow we'll link you to 30 more if you actually manage to go through all if it by then thoughts of haste will melt away when you realize that you are a dime a dozen and equally blasé and filled with ready made platitudes as your predecessors .. Surely you can forgive how you or one of you turns up here every other day with the same ole same ole... Now there's an original story for Rod Serling ...

Best,
 
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Oh, come now! ... surely I don't need to remind you of a wee little passage from An-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths?

"None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.

Enjoy.
 
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Evidently, your little game is to detract and bury anything said by me in earnest, by seeing how many pages we can generate by way of petty argument not relating to the topic. Therefore, I trust you'll understand if I fully ignore anything you say from here on. I think I've learned enough about you for one lifetime. I don't feel there is anymore to say. Goodbye, little ßlµêßêll.
 
You are no brother of mine so I am not sure of the relevance of the Hadith? And if indeed you were a brother I still see no relevance to the topic .. It does in fact reflect the rest ofyour drivel though I'd hate to give it or you more attention than is actually merited.. go ahead though save face with more atheist bromides .. You almost all come fresh out of the same cesspool following to a t the same script!


Best
 
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Might not have anything to do with this thread... but Hadith #3:
"The best among you are those who have the best manners and character."
has everything to do with your manners and character.

That's all. Enjoy.
 

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