[umairlooms]

I am big believer in peace and harmony and have been brought up to feel at ease among anyone, any sect of islam , or any religion. However I cannot help but feel (through my travels and discussions) that people's views on Islam are becoming more and more negative and MAYBE even feeding into intolerance. I live in an Islamic country now, so perhaps my own feelings might not reflect reality.

How do you feel in your communities, countries etc
How do you feel in France, China, Mexico etc

 

[strivingobserver98]

In our local community it's mostly non Muslims but alhamdulilah Islam is neutral. There are always a small minorities of haters, but in general it's okay.

 

[IslamicRevival]

Reminded me of this Hadith.

Our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said: "Islam began as a stranger and shall return as a stranger as it began. So give glad tidings to the strangers". [Sahih Muslim]

 

[sister herb]

In our local community it's mostly non Muslims but alhamdulilah Islam is neutral. There are always a small minorities of haters, but in general it's okay.

I think that those haters would hate everything what is strange anyways - now their target is Islam and Muslims but they are generally same kind of people whose during the history have hated and victimized very different kind of groups of people and religions. It seems that there always is some percent of the population whose are those "haters". Depends on the situation who are hated by them.

 

[Mister Agenda]

In the USA there is a sort of industry perpetuated by the likes of Pamela Geller that fans the flames of dislike for Muslims. I would say there is more dislike for Muslims, especially among conservative fundamentalist Christians in America now than there was the year after 9/11/2001. Thus encouraged, they attempt to interfere in the legal establishment of mosques and clamor for Muslims to not be allowed to immigrate to the USA. They are fearful people being told their fears are justified.

However, I expect the Democratic nominee for president to be elected, which should at least ensure that our immigration laws are not changed to discriminate against Muslims.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Islamophobia hit a peak shortly after 9/11. That was quite some time ago now, and ever since I think Canada at least is becoming far more tolerant of Islam. We never reached the fevered peak of the USA or France on this, but we did recently have that much-to-do-about-nothing with the swearing in ceremony for immigrants and wearing the veil. Canada resoundingly booted out the prime minister who wanted to ban the veil in that circumstance, so that is a positive sign. We have a lot more shops in my area advertising that they offer halal meats, and nobody seems to object to that, which is another good sign. Now that I think on it, it has actually been quite some time since I encountered anybody speaking of Islam or Muslims negatively, at least in the bogeyman terrorist sense. It seems to have gone back to being seen as just another religion, and not something to worry too much about.

 

[DanEdge]

Greetings,

The view of Islam in the US is still in flux. As others have indicated, the 9/11 attacks stirred up a lot of emotion and difference of opinion.

The radical right in America are mostly anti-Islam, many arguing that the US is at war with Islam as such. These folks are pushing for immigration restrictions from predominantly Islamic countries, sanctions against them, etc. The rise of ISIL has given new strength to this contengent of thought. Some ideas propogated in the Islamic community, ie, that 9/11 was a "false flag" attack, that virtually all terrorists actions by Muslims are really Zionist/American undercover operations, etc., further support this negative view.

More liberal American thinkers are opposed to religious bias against Islam. The US is suppsed to be a haven of religious tolerance, and as such Islam must be protected under the 1st Amendment.

I believe that most Americans are opposed to economic and military actiosn against Islamic countries, unless and until they directly attack the US. This hasn't happened, so hopefully we will stay out of conflicts which are, in my opinion, none of our business. I hope that our open immigration policies remain unchanged, and that Muslims are welcome in our country along with everyone else in the world -- so long as they respect our liberal democratic principles.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge

 

[Abz2000]

Which principles are those? What defines them? And who (other than the corporate and moneyed interests which present leaders, policies, crises and talking points to the general public) defines them?

 

[sister herb]

I think there is also something to do that the West always needs an enemy. Before their enemy were the Reds (communism, the Soviet Union). Soon after the USSR collapsed, they changed their enemy to Islam and Muslims. Like now in some movies the bad guy is called a terrorist, he has beard and he is most likely a Muslim. Before he was a Russian secret agent (who wanted to destroy the world). And movies are one way to manipulate the western people's attitudes and values.

If they wait that Islam will collapse too like the Reds before and then they can change their target to something else... they have to wait a long time.

 

[DanEdge]

Abz,

For founding principles of America, I refer you to The 2nd Treatise of Goverment by John Lock, The Federalist Papers by various authors, the letters of Thomas Jefferson, and the founding US documents: The Declaration of Independence, The Bill of Rights, and The Constitution. The 1st Amendment of The Bill of Rights and Articles on Religious Freedom by Thomas Jefferson are crucially relevant.

--Dan Edge

 

[DanEdge]

Sister Herb,

I agree that our culture is akways in search for an enemy. War against "the other" brings people together. I do not say that this is right, only that it is common, perhaps natural.

--Dan Edge

 

[Abz2000]

Greetings,

The view of Islam in the US is still in flux. As others have indicated, the 9/11 attacks stirred up a lot of emotion and difference of opinion.

Then we really need a new and scientific investigation of the events of, leading up to, and after 9/11

The radical right in America are mostly anti-Islam, many arguing that the US is at war with Islam as such. These folks are pushing for immigration restrictions from predominantly Islamic countries, sanctions against them, etc.

What defines "the radical right", is it a gang or a people who form a nation bound by a valid set of principles? Or just a construct conjured by spin doctors upon the minds of the adherents of such a notion - and who are it's accepted advocate leaders?

The rise of ISIL has given new strength to this contengent of thought.

Weren't "ISIL" united as a political movement after the atrocities and humiliation the people of the region were subjected to?
And do you believe that the large body of people who have accepted Islam as their principle defining way of life have no right to representative leadership other than those forced or manipulated onto them by the corrupt bankers, corporations and banker and corporation handled politicians?

Some ideas propogated in the Islamic community, ie, that 9/11 was a "false flag" attack, that virtually all terrorists actions by Muslims are really Zionist/American undercover operations, etc., further support this negative view.

do you believe that the islamic community should refrain from propagating the idea that 9/11 was a false flag and that "virtual?lly all" / the majority of military guerilla tactics are really zionist/American undercover operations unlawfully perpetrated with the aim of enforcing a false illusion that Islam is somehow related to crime - even if all common sense, scientific facts and evidence point toward the direction that they are in fact false flags?

More liberal American thinkers are opposed to religious bias against Islam. The US is suppsed to be a haven of religious tolerance, and as such Islam must be protected under the 1st Amendment.

What defines "liberal thinkers" and what validates their frame of mind, and what compels the planet to accept and submit to the rationality and authority of "liberal thinkers"?

I believe that most Americans are opposed to economic and military actiosn against Islamic countries, unless and until they directly attack the US.

Again you define a majority within a conjured body, what defines the U.S? And why hasn't such a majority retrieved all soldiery, military bases and corrupt puppets from the lands in which Islam is accepted as the way of life by the majority of people?

This hasn't happened, so hopefully we will stay out of conflicts which are, in my opinion, none of our business.

Who is we? And have you delivered on such a promise once defined?

I hope that our open immigration policies remain unchanged, and that Muslims are welcome in our country along with everyone else in the world -- so long as they respect our liberal democratic principles.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge

What do you mean by "our"? Which principles are those? What defines them? And who (other than the corporate and moneyed interests which present leaders, policies, crises and talking points to the general public) defines them?
From what i can perceive, the whole of the above quoted statement was geared towards casting into the the mind of the reader the illusion of a fully defined body that accepts the principles it projects as binding and authoritative, and issues a frame of mind which people ought to fall into in order to be liked by the described body, and then tells them how to fit into that conjured matrix in order to be liked, however the matrix itself appears to have no defining factors to it and appears to be colourful smoke- And God knows best.



Below is a description of some of the reaction the final Prophet pbuh was faced with when he (pbuh) was instructed to proclaim the message from the Master of the universe that he (pbuh) was tasked with, and how he and the believers came through:

 

[DanEdge]

Greetings,

Thanks to Abz for illustrating my point, all over Islamic Board. Americans are afraid of Islam today because of the extremists who narrowly interpret Islam as anti-Modernism, anti-West, anti-Semitism, Absolutist, and anti-religious freedom.

In the few weeks I've been a part of this website, I've received an overwhleming welcome, full of love and life. Most folks have greeted me as a brother, a neighbor, a friend. Thanks so much to you!!! You have helped me see Muslims as a primarily peaceful and respectful people, who would accept me regardless of my personal beliefs. But I've seen another side.

I have read a post here condemning all Shi'a as evil enemies. I've seen Abz and others excuse terrorism as either a nonexistent fantasy, or an international conspiracy, or a justified reaction to insults to Islam. This is what Americans are afraid of: not the extremists, not the militant Islamic jihadist, but the average every day Muslim who refuses to condemn such views. It's shocking to me the amount of anti-Semitism and anti-Westernism publicized on a well-moderated site to advance Islam to the masses.

If average Muslimsdo not stand up to such atrocities as, say, the boming of a Russian plane -- an accomplishment publicy celebrated by ISIL -- then I'm afraid the anti-Islam bias in America will endure.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge

 

[Abz2000]

Greetings,

Thanks to Abz for illustrating my point, all over Islamic Board. Americans are afraid of Islam today because of the extremists who narrowly interpret Islam as anti-Modernism, anti-West, anti-Semitism, Absolutist, and anti-religious freedom.

In the few weeks I've been a part of this website, I've received an overwhleming welcome, full of love and life. Most folks have greeted me as a brother, a neighbor, a friend. Thanks so much to you!!! You have helped me see Muslims as a primarily peaceful and respectful people, who would accept me regardless of my personal beliefs. But I've seen another side.

I have read a post here condemning all Shi'a as evil enemies. I've seen Abz and others excuse terrorism as either a nonexistent fantasy, or an international conspiracy, or a justified reaction to insults to Islam. This is what Americans are afraid of: not the extremists, not the militant Islamic jihadist, but the average every day Muslim who refuses to condemn such views. It's shocking to me the amount of anti-Semitism and anti-Westernism publicized on a well-moderated site to advance Islam to the masses.

If average Muslimsdo not stand up to such atrocities as, say, the boming of a Russian plane -- an accomplishment publicy celebrated by ISIL -- then I'm afraid the anti-Islam bias in America will endure.

Sincerely,

--Dan Edge

God knows what my post must have come across as to you, to me it was a request for clarification and a small description of my obervations, especially considering that i see zionist trolls all over the web with all sorts of avatars saying "we should", "we must" and "we ought to". However i also notice that you failed to provide clarification and resorted to emotional string pulls. Oh i feel so hurt that you would think such a thing of me and that you refuse to fall in line with my so solid promises.

Is your second post an instruction on how the Muslim nation like helpless orphans clutching at straws should act in order to gain acceptance of anarchy based atheists or is it a threat as to the consequences of not being wishy washy?
(the last part came across as such).

The following document was penned a few centuries ago, however, some of it may appear as quite new to you in light of the events of the past century:
http://humanevents.com/2007/07/04/when-in-the-course-of-human-events/

 

[ajr]

''If we fall short regarding this deen, leave it to be played with by the people of desires, act like we in agreement with them, remain silent about them and name that to be wisdom, then indeed we deserve the Anger of Allah''

*Sheikh Rabee al Madkhalee*
Al-Majloo 14/230

Islam-Submission to the WILL of GOD….as muslims that is what we adhere to, or aught to adhere to…but today we have become Modern in our approach. We let humanism define us ie. Fearing man and what man would say, never fearing God and Judgement Day…we view the verses in the Quran to a people of days gone by, it doesn’t fit into today’s society, no…because we have friends of different faiths and we should be endearing to them, so when does it end, we compromise and slowly our values are left swirled into the unknowns to be liked by the masses, we become tolerant, we justify our religion so that Mankind can view us as peaceful, so that it can be said why cant more muslims be like so and so…

"Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested. And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allah will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allah knows all that before putting them to test)." #Quran 29:2-3

This dunya is fleeting, we are met with some form of challenge, its best to ask ourselves who do we want judging us, mankind on this fleeting dunya whom, I might add will not come to our defense in Akhirah as each one will be running helter skelter for themselves, we feel so much pain when someone utters ills and rebukes us, be it in private or public, we cry, we curse silently and then we compromise so that we can be liked, tolerated …how would we feel when Allah tells us on Qiyaamah..’’Remain you in it (hell fire) with ignominy! And speak you not to me’’ #Quran 23:108

EVERYBODY WANTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD, BUT NO-ONE WANTS TO CHANGE!!!! It reminds me of
Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. #Quran 13:11

We ask Allah daily to guide us (Al-Fatihah), but when guidance comes, its not what we like, so we discard it. Are we really prepared to sell our souls for the enjoyment of this world? When we are told it is but a deception!
Fi AmaanILLAH

 

[Abz2000]

And if you were to follow the majority of those of those on earth, they will lead you away from the path of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture: and they do nothing but lie.
Quran 6:116

Those who commit shirk will say:
"If Allah had wished, we should not have given partners to Him nor would our fathers; nor should we have had any taboos."
So did their ancestors argue falsely, until they tasted of Our wrath.
Say: "Have you any (certain) knowledge? If so, produce it before us. You follow nothing but conjecture: you do nothing but lie."
Quran 6:48

 

[DanEdge]

Abz,

My last response to you was unclear and unfair. Since you are the author several of the posts on Islam Board that I find objectionable, I directed several criticisms towards you that lump your views together with others that I oppose. The downing of the Russian plane upset me, and I think that has something to do with my outburst.

In any case, we are miles apart in our views of the scientific evidence of the 9/11 attacks and other issues -- so far apart that I don't see any point in discussing the specifics.

Sincerely,

-Dan Edge

 

[Logikon]

Is the world becoming more intolerant of Islam?

Yes.

The Paris attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Charlie Hedbo attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Mumbai attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

All the Islamic terror attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

In every case these attackers needs safe housed to do their planning.

The houses are probably occupied by Muslim women and children sympathetic to Islamic State.

As a result we are even more wary of any Muslim.

Bring your violent minority under control.

Stamp out their dumb beliefs.

That will fix the problem.

 

[Search]

Hi. Okay, I find some what you say objectionable.

#1 You speak as if the global Islamic community is complicit in what is happening with the extremists. Because hey, of course, (sarcasm) extremists announce to all and sundry exactly the specific heinous action they will commit, right? Just in case you didn't know, there is a clear pattern of extremists putting on a "show" to people around them so that they look the same even if they have changed inside of themselves. Also, if you look at the pattern of emerging Islamic extremists, you'll realize that a majority of them become radicalized not through through any in-person interaction but through the social media and Internet communities, which means that of course they are in a position to easily escape detection; also, if say, FBI/CIA/(insert another security force) cannot detect these threats, what makes you think any ordinary Muslim family or friends are a position to do so? Also, let's not forget that the radicalization is specifically occurring within the youth community because of how the Internet has made real-time news about the global atrocities in Muslim countries enter their homes daily.

#2 Do you say the same to people of Western/Eastern European descent in America every time a white supremacist, say, shoots up a place like a black church?

#3 Already, Islamic scholars by consensus have said that extremists are misguided, incorrect, and will have to answer to Allah SWT for their heinous actions. Already, the global Islamic community keep on saying that the extremists do not represent the typical Muslim or traditional Islam. What more do you exactly need?

Yes, I'm all for bringing "violent minority under control" and "stamp[ing] out their dumb beliefs," but are you going to give any suggestions or are you here to simply vent your frustration at Muslims on the board because they are part of the "global Islamic community"?

Yes.

The Paris attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Charlie Hedbo attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Mumbai attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

All the Islamic terror attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

In every case these attackers needs safe housed to do their planning.

The houses are probably occupied by Muslim women and children sympathetic to Islamic State.

As a result we are even more wary of any Muslim.

Bring your violent minority under control.

Stamp out their dumb beliefs.

That will fix the problem.

 

[Zafran]

Yes.

The Paris attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Charlie Hedbo attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

The Mumbai attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

All the Islamic terror attacks were done by members of the global Islamic community.

In every case these attackers needs safe housed to do their planning.

The houses are probably occupied by Muslim women and children sympathetic to Islamic State.

As a result we are even more wary of any Muslim.

Bring your violent minority under control.

Stamp out their dumb beliefs.

That will fix the problem.

I think you and Abz will love each other.