Is there any Biblical evidence that describes Jesus as God?

[Predator]

Jesus power is not his own

John 5:30.

" My father is greater than I , My father is greater than All and I can of my ownself do nothing .

Why is Jesus promoting his father and lowering his status ?


MATTHEW 28:18

(a) "And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is
GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth."

The power that is given to Jesus belongs to god and he can take it from him and give it to somebody else. Shouldnt it be all power is mine ?


MATTHEW 19:16-I7

One came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing
shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
"And Jesus said unto him, WHY CALLEST THOU ME
GOOD? there is NONE GOOD BUT ONE, THAT IS GOD

From the above verse , he refuses you to even call him good , how would he ask you to call him god . God is good If Jesus was god , he would say " Well i accept ,what you're telling me "


God used Jesus to give life to the dead

JOHN 11:41-43

"And Jesus lifted up his eyes (towards heaven), and said,
Father, I thank thee that THOU HAST HEARD ME.
"And I know that THOU HEAREST ME ALWAYS: but
because of the people which stand by l said (my supplication
aloud), that THEY MAY BELIEVE that thou hast sent me.
"And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice,
Lazarus, come forth.
"And he that was dead came forth . . ."

Who then gave life back to Lazarus? The answer is "GOD!" For God
heard the prayer of Jesus, as "always!"

If you press a button , the power comes on and the light is switched on and you supply the electricity from the power station . similarly , jesus is praying to god and God hears his prayers and gives back life to Lazarus


And Jesus has no knowledge of the last day

"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the
angels which are in heaven, NEITHER THE SON, but the
Father." MARK 13:32

How can he not have the knowledge ?

This brings a conclusion is not like the father in either knowledge or power .So i cant understand what makes Jesus God.

Q . What is God ?
Answer The creators of the heavens and the earth

Where does Jesus say that he created the heavens and the earth ?

In Genesis 1:1

Its says "God created the heavens and the earth "

If it Jesus is God as well , then it should be "Gods created the heaven and the earth " and NOT God

 

[Grace Seeker]

Airforce, actually I have much less argument with what you posted than you might imagine. For instance:

It is true that Jesus' power, that which he displays on earth and the means by which is does his miracles it is not his own. It is in the power of the Holy Spirit that he does these things.

It is also true that Jesus does not claim to know all that the Father knows, nor does he even claim equality with God (see Philippians 2 for that reference, more in it later). Yet he still claims that he and the Father are one (John 10:30).

If we can agree on nothing else, perhaps you will agree with me that Jesus is sometimes cryptic in the way he reveals God's truth to people. For example:

Luke 8

8bWhen he said this [the parable], he called out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
9His disciples asked him what this parable meant. 10He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that,
" 'though seeing, they may not see;
though hearing, they may not understand.' "

This crypticness extends to far more than just his parables. Even his very behavior doing things that no good Jew would do, like proclaiming the forgiveness of sins, his claims to have been before Abraham, or saying that people were to feast on his body and drink his blood and not just do it but as a means of receiving God's grace in their lives are all examples of Jesus saying things that if we are to try to understanding them as coming from a mere man are a minimum very confusing and really indicative of utter nonsense and a person who doesn't even know what he is saying. Yet, I doubt if you actually project such a character, that of a madman, on to Jesus. So, then we have to look deeper to find the signficance of much of what Jesus says.

How can he not have the knowledge ?

I think this is a most excellent question. But as you seek to answer it, I ask you to not just jump to the first thought that crosses your mind, but consider a variety of possibilities. Indeed, it might be that some of the answer that initially seem most strange, are actually ones that in the end make the most sense.

Now you initial thought is

This brings a conclusion is not like the father in either knowledge or power .So i cant understand what makes Jesus God.

I want to begin by agreeing with a slight different form of your statement -- that this brings a conclusion that Jesus is not identical with the Father in either knowledge or power. I chose to stress the difference between being like and being identical. Because while I am not identical with my father, I am like him in many ways. For instance I am named after him. We are both balding. (Sounds much nicer when you use the "-ing" form of the word.) Both white, male, United Methodist pastors. In others words we have a lot in common, but we are not identical. We don't have the same knowledge -- think differently about many things, voting differently, even have some different theological views. We also have different power -- he has talents and gifts that I only dream about in terms of knowing how to relate to people, especially troubled people; whereas I am able to organize projects that would leave him bewildered, and I'm a much better skier as well. We are quite clearly not identical, but I do think that we are alike. But here is a key, while some of our differences are by nature, many of them are actually by choice. Remember above I said that we were going to come back to Philippians 2. Well, let's take a look at what it says about Jesus: "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" (vs. 6).

To claim that Jesus is God is not to claim that he is identical with the Father. Only that he is one with the Father. He is inherently of the very same nature as God, but does not consider that he has to hang on to that which is true of the Father, "but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness" (vs 7).

The phrase translated there "made himself nothing" is a Greek word kenosis which means to empty. A more literal rendering of that passage would read: "who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God, but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made." That is, though Jesus prior to his conception Jesus could claim oneness with God, he voluntarily relinquishes those divine attributes of omnipotence and omniscience to take on the attributes of humanity and become more like us than like the Father. Jesus life and ministry on earth is every bit as human as yours and mine. But that doesn't negate the pre-existing reality of his divinity. Further, though I know Muslims don't accept it is being true, for those of us who accept the proclamation of Jesus' death and resurrection, this event is understood as vindication of who Jesus actually is.

As this pericope of scripture continues I want to pick up what Paul declares about Jesus in vss. 10 & 11: "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow...and every tongue confess that 'Jesus Christ is Lord', to the glory of God the Father." You may not recognize it, but Paul is actually quoting one of the most stridently monotheistic proclamations of the Old Testament. It comes from a section of Isaiah where one finds the clearest and most sustained exposition in all of the scriptures exaulting YHWH, the one true God of Israel, over and against all of the false claimants of the world. It is also one of the strongest declarations of the true sovereignty of the one God and rules out the possibility of any ontological dualism. Here Isaiah 42:53 declares, in the name of YHWH, Israel's one God: "To me, and me alone every knee shall bow, every tongue swear." The whole point of the context being that the one true God DOES NOT, CANNOT, and WILL NOT share his glory with another. Yet Paul intentionally uses this passage, which by the time of his writing had already become a hymn of the Church directed toward Jesus, to declare that this one God has shared his glory with Jesus.

It is reasonable to ask the questions: "How can this be?" "What is he talking about?"

I submit to you that the answers to those questions are found back at the first verses we looked at, at the beginning of the hymn:
1) Jesus was truly in the form (nature) of God, that is, he was equal to God. But,
2) he did not consider divine equality as something to be exploited. Instead, Paul says,
3) he offered the true interpretation of what it meant to live a Godly life: he became human, and died under the weight of the sin of the world, obedient and submissive to the divine plan of salvation.

Today he is exalted, and given the divine name that is above every name -- "LORD" -- because he has done what only God can do. Paul writes of that in another of his letters, "God commends his love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). That is a sentence which only makes sense if, somehow, God is fully and personally involved in the death of Jesus. Hence, Paul's understanding of what God had done in Jesus Christ, take him not to pagan philosophies or mystery religions, but bring him face-to-face with the utterly self-giving and faithfulness of the love of the covenant-making God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

In this sense, these passages from Philippians are not so much about Jesus as they are about God himself. At the heart of Philippians 2, and at the heart of Paul's understanding of the gospel, is the news that the one true God is in his own nature thorough self-giving love. For this, God had to become human, and to die for sinners. While it may not make sense to the human mind, it is something that, because of his nature, God had to do. It is right there at the climax of Isaiah -- this strange portrait of the servant of YHWH, who does for Israel and for the world what only YHWH himself can do for the world. And Paul sees this fulfilled in the life of the Messiah, God's anointed servant messenger, who embodies God's divine love in his own life and actions. And so, as such, this man Jesus, is now exalted in a manner and with the glory that God will not share with one other than himself. Of course, it does indeed strain our feeble minds to comprehend exactly what it is that God has done, and our language begins to fail as we attempt to describe it. But the scriptures do indeed declare that from now on we are to understand the meaning of the word 'God' to not only include Jesus, but, specifically, the crucified and risen Jesus.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Q . What is God ?
Answer The creators of the heavens and the earth

Where does Jesus say that he created the heavens and the earth ?

In Genesis 1:1

Its says "God created the heavens and the earth "

If it Jesus is God as well , then it should be "Gods created the heaven and the earth " and NOT God

As, I hope you can see above, when we speak of Jesus as God, we are not speaking of a second God. We are still speaking of just the one true God, who, as you said is the creator (singular) of the heavens and the earth. But, how can this be identified with Jesus? Afterall, Jesus was himself a part of that creation.

Well, first, I would remind you that God lives outside of time. He isn't just before creation, he is outside of creation. The Christian understanding of incarnation is that God breaks into that created order. But that doesn't mean that his origins are part of it. Rather, Jesus' body is conceived within the created order, and as we have already discussed, he empties himself of those divine attributes that cannot be subsumed in a human body, but this in no way is understood to diminish his divine essence. Rather, we understand him to be both fully human and fully divine, even as he limits his utilization of some of his divine attributes. But, as scripture declares, God acts to redeem us for himself through the agency of King Jesus, and thus he also makes himself known to the world through this same Jesus:

Colossians 1

15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,

16because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,

17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.

18And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first,

19because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,

20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.

I've seen many people, using English rather than Jewish thought processes, get confused over the term "image". But it fits perfectly as an example of Jewish monotheistic poetry -- of the type we find again and again in the Psalms. The Jews, faced with the might and corruption of various forms of paganism, stressed repeatedly that the creator fo the world was Israel's redeemer-God. And vice versa, that Israel's redeemer-God was the creator of the entire cosmos, not just god of Israel. For, if the creator were not their God, then they would only have a local or tribal god. By identifying YHWH as both the creator of the cosmos and the redeemer of Israel they safeguarded all their three basic doctrines -- monotheism, election, and eschatology. One God, one people of God, one future for Israel and the whole world. (My guess is that on these elements there may be a great deal more commonality between ancient Jewish thought and modern Islam than most people might at first imagine -- though it shouldn't be so surprising if one accepts the thesis that Muhammad (p) was a prophet of the same God as worshipped by ancient Israel.)

The interesting thing is that Paul now writes a poem in exactly the same vein as this ancient Jewish thought, but the central character of that poem is not YHWH, but God's special anointed servant, the Christ.

An aside must be ventured for a few brief moments. The English term "Christ" is from the Greek word "christos", that itself is a translation of the Hebrew word "masiah", generally rendered as "Messiah" in Englsih. So, the terms "Christ" and "Messiah" are basically interchangable. With this caveat. In it's original form, "messiah" meant anyone or even anything that was anointed, especially if that anointing was to set it apart for God's purposes. It could be, and in the Old Testament, sometimes is in fact used for objects that are used in worship, kings and prophets of Israel, and even the Persian king Cyrus who is used as God's agent and given (at least temporarily) the title "the anointed of God" (Isaiah 45:1), even though he had clearly not been anointed as king in accordance with Judaic custom. But by the time of the first-century BCE, its major reference was to the coming king who would fulfill the promise of the prophets and usher in the eschatalogical "Day of the Lord" when God would take his rightful place as Lord of the cosmos, recognized not only by Israel, but by the all peoples of the earth, sin would be vanquished, and all would be set right again. It is in this context that the New Testament writers, including Paul, ascribe the term "Christ" to Jesus. Thus, to remind ourselves of this it would do no harm from time to time to translate "Iesous Christos" not as "Jesus Christ", nor even as "Jesus the Messiah", but as "King Jesus", a term that would be sure not to set well with Caesar who saw himself as not only King of the world, but Lord and Savior of the universe. As such, nearly all Christian claims made for Jesus arising out their orthodox Jewish beliefs of the sovereignty of God fly directly in the face of Rome's view of their own sovereignty and role to rule.


Now, with this above added understanding to the nature of what it means to identify one as "the Christ", perhaps we need to revise our statement and amend it to say that the central character of Paul's poem in Colossians 1:15-20 is YHWH recognized in the human face of Jesus.

And so, we don't have gods creating the heavens and the earth, we just have God doing so. But that God who is the creator, has over the course of time, chosen to make himself known to us through his incarnation in the person of Jesus. The Father and the Son are, as Jesus himself declared, one. Not that the Son knows all that the Father knows, for they are not identical. But they are one. And though the nuanced distinction between those two statements may be more than some people can understand or affirm, it remains on the lips of none other than Jesus himself -- he who puts a face on God.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Despite the objections of those who claim it to be illogical, the scriptures present absolutely no tension between the presentation of Jesus as a totally human Messiah and of him being, as it were, God's son, the one sent to do and be what only God can do and be. Impossible to imagine some have argued, but as I have tried to show above, the New Testament presents Jesus through the lens of an incarnational theology that is grounded in a throughly monotheistic Jewish world view. This is perhaps seen most clearly by turning to the most Jewish of all affirmations -- the Shema: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Deuteronomy 6:4) -- and seeing how Paul uses it to address the ethical concerns of the first Christians.

First, let it be recognized that true monotheism isn't seen as one option among many. Nor is it something that one logically deduces about God. It is simply declared. It is called the Shema which comes from the Hebrew word for "Hear" with which the passage begins. Paul turns to it when the first generation of Christians in Corinth are faced with a dilemna brought on by living in the pagan world. They need to hear how the reality of who God is applies to their everyday life.

In Corinth, there were temples dedicated to virtually every sort of god imaginable. A commonality among many was that meat would be offered in these temples to idols. Most of it could not be consumed in the temples and therefore it made its way to the marketplace where it was mixed with the rest of what was offered for sale. Idol temples, restaurants, and meat markets were usually one and the same, so that it was not possible to buy meat in Corinth that had not itself been offered in the temples to these pagan idols or was indistinguishable from that which had been offered. The long and the short of it was that there was no way that one could buy meat in Corinth and have assurance that it was not "polluted" in this manner. What is a good Christian to do who wants to eat with a clear conscience?

Paul's response is to remind them "an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one" (1 Corinthians 8:4) -- about as thoroughly of a monotheistic statement as one could make. Then, in his typical fashion, he repeats the major thrust of his argument: "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many 'gods' and many 'lords'), yet for us there is but one God" (vs. 5-6a) and he identifies who this "one God" is -- "the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live". And if it were not for the next part of the verse, one would think that this was a statement of some Jewish rabbi writing in the Talmud. But Paul does go on to say, "and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live" (vs. 6b). The point of course being that they should not be concerned about the meat that has been so presented for sacrifices in the various pagan temples of Corinth, for in reality the god such meat is presented to represent nothing real as the only true God is God himself. If they remember that, then Christians can eat freely, for they are not participating in the worship of other gods, only be aware of those who might have recently become a part of the Christian community coming out of these pagan religions who might still have a problem making the distinction.

That's a pretty sane and reasonsed response for the situation at hand. The problem for us today comes when people read the verse and perceive that Paul is making a separation between God and Jesus. Reading in the linear process of English thought, they miss that the chiastic structure of Hebrew thinking that lays behind the letter, even though it was written in Greek. Thus to get the full force of what Paul was saying, allow me to set out the major elements side by side, with that which I believe Paul is referencing:

The Lord our God. . . . .One God -- the Father...

The Lord is One. . . . . . One Lord -- Jesus Christ...

(Deuteronomy 6:4). . . .(1 Corinthians 8:6)​

The whole argument Paul makes with regard to it meaning nothing to eat the meat offered to idols hinges on his Jewish-styled monotheistic belief that there is only one true God over and against pagan-styled polytheism, and that any allusion to any other god means absolutely nothing. Yet, as the lynchpin of his argument, Paul takes the very words that Jews used every day in their regular prayers to denote the one true God, quotes the central and most central and holy confession of orthodox monotheisitic Judaism, and places Jesus right in the midst of it. Despite Grenville's anticipated protestations, what we see is that Paul believes the one and only God is known in terms of at least 'father' and 'lord'. All things are made by the one; all things are made through the other.

And when we examine Paul's use of the word "kyrios" or "Lord", we will see that this too is a proclamation not of simply a servile attitude projected toward Jesus, but a proclamation in scripture that does indeed describe Jesus as God.

Now the term "kyrios" ("lord") did carry a variety of connotations in the first century. (It is the first century we are concerned about, not the way the term gets used in medieval England.) In classical Greek it contained the idea of legality and authority. Instance of the use of the term kyrios to refer to gods or rulers did not occur until the first century BCE. But at that time it suddenly become common place. The phrase "kyrios basileus" (Lord and King) is frequently found between 64 and 50 B.C. And in 12 B.C. the Roman emperor Augustus takes for himself the title theos kai kyrios (God and Lord). And in Palestine the title kyrios is also used of Herod the Great (73-4 B.C.), Agrippa I (10 B.C.-A.D. 44), and Agrippa II (A.D. 27-100). Among semitic people the term was used with a personal suffix (my, our, etc.) to indicate the nature of belonging in relationship with one who was identified as one's lord.

With respect to Paul's usage of it, I have already shown how it flies in the face of Roman Emperor. But more importantly, it parallels the way the term "kyrious" is used in the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible), where it regularly stands for YHWH.

For instance, see Romans 10:13 -- "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Read in the context of Paul's letter to the Romans it clearly refers to calling on the name of Jesus, to confessing Jesus as Kyrios (10:9), and believing that God raised Jesus from the dead. Yet Romans 10:13 is a quote taken from Joel 2:32 (numbered 3:5 in the Septuagint). In its original context kyrios refers to YHWH himself.

Now, I have come to learn that such a direct and intentional use of a passage that references YHWH to be reused to refer to Jesus will not be understood by Grenville to be explicit Biblical evidence of Jesus being described as God. But, I'm hoping that those with eyes to see will see that it is most certainly implied, and intentionally so.

Paul is not stupid. Again and again he is making the point cryptically, which emerges into the light in the three passages (Philippians 2, Colossians 1, and 1 Corinthians 8] we have examined..., and in such startling throw away lines as Romans 9:5 ["Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen."], which introduces and prefigures precisely the point of 10:9-13: from the Jewish race comes the Messiah according to the flesh -- who is also God over all, blessed for ever.

(source: N.T. Wright. What Saint Paul Really Said: Was Paul of Tarsus the Real Founder of Christianity?. Eerdmanns Publishing, c. 1997, p. 71.)

 

[Predator]

Yet he still claims that he and the Father are one (John 10:30).

Let us look at John 10:30

"And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."

"I (Jesus) and the Father are One." This verse is severely misunderstood and is taken out of context, because beginning at verse John 10:23 we read (in the context of 10:30) about Jesus talking to the Jews. In verse John 10:28-30, talking about his followers as his sheep, he states: "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One." ( For eg : does this mean that if there are 2 security guards watching over one person, does it make them the same person just . NO, they are both person with different personalities etc )

These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything. In fact the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus.


There is not a single verse in the Bible where Jesus says " I am God " or " Worship me "

Is this a coincidence? I think not. If you make a claim on someone, then you would expect that someone to back your claim up. If I claim somebody is a king, you would expect that king to say he is a king, at least once. In the Old testament God says he is God several times, why not once with Jesus in the New Testament ? Did God change his ways? I think not, since the OT says God does not change. Here are the passages from the OT where God says he is God:

Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins

Gen 46:3 And he said, I [am] God, the God of thy father: fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will there make of thee a great nation:

Exd 16:12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD your God.

Exd 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I [am] God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

Psa 50:7 Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I [am] God, [even] thy God.

Psa 81:10 I [am] the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.

Isa 41:10 Fear thou not; for I [am] with thee: be not dismayed; for I [am] thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Isa 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.

Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me,

Jer 32:27 Behold, I [am] the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?



Eze 13:9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I [am] the Lord GOD.



Eze 20:19 I [am] the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;



Eze 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.



Eze 23:49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I [am] the Lord GOD.

So as we can see, God is not shy to say I am God. SO if Jesus is God, then how come he never said it once like the God of the Old testament ?

"And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is
GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth."

Why does he say the power is not his and why given ?

So note, even better now, Jesus now says that ALL things have been GIVEN to him by the Father. This means that everything Jesus said and did was from the Father. The miracles he did were not on his own, such us healing the blind, curing the sick, casting out demons etc. God had given him this power to be able to perform such great miracles; Jesus did not do this on his own. Hence this all proves that Jesus is NOT GOD.

Also note, Jesus says that now they have believed that thou has sent me, so basically they believe in the True God, because that was Jesus' mission, to make his people realize and worship the true God, and that was the mission of the prophet Jesus. God had helped Jesus in doing this mission by granting him everything.

Exodus 20:3 You must not have any other god but me.

Considering Jesus or the Holy Ghost as a partner to God ,breaks the first commandment given By God almighty to Moses

Job 25:4

How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

So in otherwords ,anyone that is born of a woman whether a Moses , Jesus or a Muhammad or a Rama , Krishna or Buddha is not good enough to be compared with God .And the verse is son of Man Jesus is nothing isnt a worm. Isnt that an insult to Jesus

The very fact that Jesus was given birth, and came out as little helpless small baby is enough to refute the claim that Jesus is God. Just imagine if you were a nurse helping Mary deliver Jesus , can you imagine this puny little creature who made his mothe impure for 40 days , your GOD . It is utter blasphemy to claim that God came out of a women like all people, it is utter blasphemy to claim God came out crying and screaming and being helpless and weak. Such nonsense is insulting to God; this itself is enough to prove Jesus is not God.

letters, "God commends his love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). That is a sentence which only makes sense if, somehow, God is fully and personally involved in the death of Jesus.
In this sense, these passages from Philippians are not so much about Jesus as they are about God himself. At the heart of Philippians 2, and at the heart of Paul's understanding of the gospel, is the news that the one true God is in his own nature thorough self-giving love. For this, God had to become human, and to die for sinners

So , Instead of punishing the evil doers and sinner ,god kills his own Son , Do you call that love ?
What kind of mercy is this ?
For eg: If Someone robs you and murders your wife and child , rapes your daughter. So what would you do , Go and kill your own lson .Is that love ? Killing an innocent man, is that justice

This contradicts God own law where he says the one that sins will perish Ezekiel 18:20

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. Ezek 18:21-23 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. {

And Jesus couldnt save himself ,how could he save you because the Bible
itself claims that Jesus cannot save anyone! Here is the passage:

Hebrews 5:1-8: 1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered

So Jesus cried to the one who could save him from death, this means Jesus could not save himself from death, therefore this also means Jesus cannot save anyone else from death. How can Jesus be God when he cannot save anyone? This also shows that Jesus is not in control of life and death, God however is in control of everything, including life and death

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (Matthew 7:21-23

He tell you christians to get away Why would he do that to do when he you've done all these things for Jesus. Because you call him lord , he is not lord and not your god

This is a way he taught you to pray

Matthew 6:9–13

Our Father, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
[For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.]
Amen.

Where does he say " Jesus christ, My Lord in heaven " , Because this is how you pray and you are worshipping Jesus instead of worshipping the father , thats why he tells you get away.

 

[Grace Seeker]

There is so much in what you have written Airforce that shows you are exactly that sort of person that Jesus speaks about when he speaks of people who "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

I think one of the biggest stumbling blocks that people have with regard to Jesus is that they try to figure out what it is that Jesus did according to human logic. If they had been Jesus, then they would have done XYZ. But the reality is that they are not Jesus, nor are they God. And to assume that God/Jesus would do things in exactly the same way that you or I would is to forget that God declares: "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways."

With Jesus in particular we see that everything has to be taken at two different levels. He comes bringing a message about the kingdom of God. It is on the one had a future eschatological kingdom that will break in on people from outside themselves. It is on the other hand something that he says that we are already a part of and that it is within us. He is the Son of God. He is the Son of Man. He is both at the same time.

This thread is about there being any Biblice evidence that describes Jesus as God. I believe that there is plenty, and further that I have provided some of that. Is there any evidence to the contrary? Yes. This is what you get with Jesus. If you are looking for simple answers, you are going to be disappointed. There is very little that is simple about Jesus. Some on this forum like to quote verses where Jesus claims that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel as if this proves that Jesus had no interest in takeing his message or sharing his good news with the world beyond the Jews of Israel. But that ignores the fact that Jesus also sent his disciples out to all nations, that they were to start in Jerusalem and then go to Samaria and then to the ends of the earth. You can't look at just one aspect of Jesus' life and ministry, or a handful of quotes that have a common theme and think that you've got Jesus all wrapped up in a nice litlte box. He doesn't fit. He will always confound us. The moment we think we have him figured out, he shows up in a different passage or tells a different story that shows us a new and different aspect of himself that we hadn't allowed for before.

That is why we have to make room for a Jesus bigger than what we can conceive of. He is more than just a carpenter, more than just a teacher, more than just good man, more even than just a savior. He is all of these things, and then still more than that as well.

Some of your comments are quite interesting: "There is not a single verse in the Bible where Jesus says 'I am God' or 'Worship me'." How true. But did you notice there is not a single verse where Jesus says, "I am NOT God" nor a single verse where Jesus says, "Do NOT worship me." I find that unusual because when in scripture we find humans being worship, they do in fact say those things, with exactly one exception -- Jesus -- "Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God" (Matthew 14:33); "Suddenly Jesus met them. 'Greetings,' he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him" (Matthew 28:9); "Then the man said, 'Lord, I believe,' and he worshiped him" (John 9:38).


But as I said above, you still don't get that this worship of Jesus is not the worship of another God nor of anyone other than YHWH himself. If you understood what was actually taking place in the worship of Jesus you would never say anything like you did when you wrote: "Considering Jesus or the Holy Ghost as a partner to God ,breaks the first commandment given By God almighty to Moses." It doesn't, because Jesus (nor the Holy Spirit) is NOT a partner with God. Jesus is the very God who gave that command to Moses, who spoke and brought the world into being. Jesus is the God that called Abraham, and when asked if he had seen Abraham responded saying: "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:58). Jesus is the God of Abraham, of Moses, of creation, of the prophets of the Old Testament. Jesus is the God of Israel. Jesus is the one and only living and true God, YHWH, just incarnated so as to dwell among us.

 

[Predator]

Jesus -- "Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God" (Matthew 14:33);

He isnt the only son . God has got sons by the tons in the The Bible

(a) "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which
was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38
(b) "That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they
were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose.
". . . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of
men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty
men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4
(c) ". . . Thus saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my
FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22
(d) ". . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN." JEREMIAH 31:9
(e) ". . . Thou (O David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God)
BEGOTTEN thee." PSALMS 2:7

(f) "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS
OF GOD." ROMANS 8:14

In the Quran , Jesus is never called Son of God because he is the Son of Mary and not of God . God has more than 99 attributes in the Quran and Father is NOT one of them because begetting is an animal act and we are not to attribute such a quality to God , that God begot a Son

"Suddenly Jesus met them. 'Greetings,' he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him" (Matthew 28:9); "Then the man said, 'Lord, I believe,' and he worshiped him" (John 9:38).

Clasping the feet is not considered as act the worship to the ALL powerful God -the creator of the God ,
People clasping the feet of parents ,teachers , Bosses , politicians doesnt indicate that they're Gods and Even Jesus worships God, If Jesus is God , then who is he praying to

Let us look at Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God." Here we see that Jesus had a God, a supreme God, who is higher than him and stronger than him. Jesus was God's servant and he prayed to God so God would strengthen him more and reinforce him with patience and desire to continue his mission in spreading the word of God Almighty.

Also, let us look at Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' " Here in this verse we see two things: (1) Jesus bowed down on his face and prayed in submission to his GOD in obedience. (2) Jesus was begging his GOD to let the cup pass away from him. Jesus did not have the power to will it for himself and make the cup pass away from Jesus. GOD had to do it for Jesus !. How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe, the all knowing, most powerful??!!

Also, let us look at Matthew 26:42 "Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'" My comments on this verse are similar to the above one (Matthew 26:39), Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn't will it by himself.

Also, let us look at Matthew 26:44 "So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and prayed for the third time, saying once more the same word." Here we see that Jesus for the third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for in Matthew 26:39 above. How can Jesus be the Creater of this Universe if he (1) begs, and (2) lacks power??!!


We Muslims prostrated with our faces down to the ground to GOD Almighty at least a total of 17 times in the 5-daily sets of Prayers. We do it while we're not desperate to seek GOD Almighty's Mercy. Jesus on the other hand so hypocritically compromised again his "prayer rules" and he eventually found the BEST WAY to worship GOD Almighty! He found it during his most desperate times. No Prayer is better than putting your face down to the ground before THE LORD ALMIGHTY, your Creator, and make your wishes and Prayers to Him while your face is humbled down to the ground before HIM.
It also proves beyond the shadow of the doubt that Jesus is NOT my Creator, because my Creator is THE ALMIGHTY GOD who doesn't beg and cry and pray to anyone.

Jesus is the God that called Abraham, and when asked if he had seen Abraham responded saying: "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:58).

Jesus existing before Abraham doesn't prove that he is GOD Almighty. In the Old Testament, the Bible presents Jeremiah as being a prophet before he was conceived in his mother's womb; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)" Yet no one says that his pre-human existence qualifies him for deity.

Jesus is the very God who gave that command to Moses, who spoke and brought the world into being.Jesus is the God of Abraham, of Moses, of creation, of the prophets of the Old Testament. Jesus is the God of Israel. Jesus is the one and only living and true God, YHWH, just incarnated so as to dwell among us.

Now you made that up . Jesus was born only 2009 years ago before that he was not hear on this earth and Jesus always talks about the father being greater than him .There is no mention of Jesus when God created Adam.If Jesus is God , then the first verse of your bible would be " Jesus created the heavens and the earth " . " God is all-powerful and is independent, he needs no help from anybody. However so this is not the case with Jesus, unlike God, Jesus needs help from God, unlike God, Jesus does not own any power or any authority, rather it is given to him from God.

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21)
“And the Father himself, which hath sent me, bore witness of Me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape” (John 5:37)
“And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” (Mark 10:18)
“And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.” (John 8:50)
“ Jesus answered them and said, “my doctrine are not Mine, but His who sent Me” (John 7:16)
“he who does not love me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent me” (John 14:24)
“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak” (John 12:49)
“Jesus said to them, ‘My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work” (John 4:34)
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent me” (John 6:38)
“saying, ‘Father, if it is your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not My will, but Yours, be done” (Luke 22:42)
“I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me” (John 5:30)
“I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him” (John 13:16)
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28)
“Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me” (John 8:42)
“To sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father” (Matthew 20:23)
“So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me”

Some on this forum like to quote verses where Jesus claims that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel as if this proves that Jesus had no interest in takeing his message or sharing his good news with the world beyond the Jews of Israel.

Jesus was sent to preach to a specific nation only, not mankind. One would expect to find Jesus being sent to all of mankind if he was God, rather what we find is that Jesus just like all the other prophets, was sent to a specific nation only:

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So as we see, Jesus was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel. His main duty was for them, not the gentiles or the world. Christians often like to say Jesus told his disciples to go preach to the gentiles, however so this doesn’t change anything. Jesus’ real mission as we see was for the children of Israel, not the gentiles, the verse I posted cannot be refuted. The verse is very clear, Jesus is SENT for the lost sheep of Israel, not the Gentiles, Jesus saying go preach to Gentiles does not mean he was sent for gentiles

That is why we have to make room for a Jesus bigger than what we can conceive of. He is more than just a carpenter, more than just a teacher, more than just good man, more even than just a savior. He is all of these things, and then still more than that as well.

So From your own mouth , you are just speculating that Jesus is god when he said that nothing of the sort and said that God was working through him and asked you to worship the father . .Just like the Buddhists, Buddha never claimed that he was God, the Buddhists made him into a God and now you christians are doing the same thing without any evidence what so ever

There is so much in what you have written Airforce that shows you are exactly that sort of person that Jesus speaks about when he speaks of people who "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

I must say the same about you . You are just the sort of unbeliever which God describes in the Quran chapter 2:18 , as ones that choose to purchase the error for guidance and your commerce was not profitable and who wasnot guided.

"they are deaf, dumb, and blind, so they return not to the right path " 2:18

 

[Grace Seeker]

I must say the same about you . You are just the sort of unbeliever which God describes in the Quran chapter 2:18 , as ones that choose to purchase the error for guidance and your commerce was not profitable and who wasnot guided.

"they are deaf, dumb, and blind, so they return not to the right path " 2:18

Indeed, from an Islamic perspective, that is probably a fair description of me. I don't challenge that. I accept it.


But you do realize that this is not a thread in which one is trying to debate the validity of the the Qur'an vs. the Bible, nor is it trying to debate the validity of Islam vs. Christianity. It is about is there anything in the Bible that describes Jesus as God.

I've already said that there are certainly some things in the Bible that would cause people to think that Jesus was NOT God. But to answer the question before us, you can't read those things isolated from those that do describe Jesus as God. Additionally, the question put to us in this thread, doesn't require that those things be on the lips of Jesus, they can be stated by others. So, despite your objections, one has to recognize that there are indeed some places where Jesus is described as God. A very simple one in this season is to note how Matthew presents him in describing his nativity:

Matthew 1

18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"—which means, "God with us."

24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

As to some of your other objections:

He isnt the only son . God has got sons by the tons in the The Bible

But you need to note the different connotation given in the text in the way Jesus is called "the Son of God", completely unlike the way the phrase is used with anyone else.

In the Quran , Jesus is never called Son of God because he is the Son of Mary and not of God . God has more than 99 attributes in the Quran and Father is NOT one of them because begetting is an animal act and we are not to attribute such a quality to God , that God begot a Son

Completely irrelevant when the question is about Biblical evidence. As for the idea of "begetting", when the Bible refers to Jesus as "the only begotten Son", this is not a reference to an animal act, and to apply any aversion that you might have to that concept as an objection is to miss the mark.

Clasping the feet is not considered as act the worship to the ALL powerful God -the creator of the God ,
People clasping the feet of parents ,teachers , Bosses , politicians doesnt indicate that they're Gods

The passage doesn't say that the clasping of feet is what indicated worship. It says that they did both. You may infer that it is a form of worship or not. But the verse itself is a simple declarative statement that Jesus was worshipped.

and Even Jesus worships God, If Jesus is God , then who is he praying to

This is an example of what I was speaking about before, something that legitimately causes people to ask questions about how it is that Jesus would be doing this if he was God. So, I understand where the question comes from. But that doesn't deny the reality that Jesus is described as "God with us" and is also described as being and accepting of worshipped in the Biblical text. Given that, perhaps we need to rethink our objections to whatever presuppositions lay behind the projection that Jesus would not be praying to God if he were God.

Jesus existing before Abraham doesn't prove that he is GOD Almighty. In the Old Testament, the Bible presents Jeremiah as being a prophet before he was conceived in his mother's womb; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)" Yet no one says that his pre-human existence qualifies him for deity.

Jeremiah was known before he was formed in his mothers womb. Jesus says "I AM" before Abraham was born. A radically different concept that what you speak of with regard to Jeremiah. As God who lives outside of time has ordained all the days of our lives before even one of them is known (to us at least), so Jeremiah can be called to be a prophet before his birth. But what John does in this passage is to very intentionally choose the very name of God "I AM" and put it on the lips of Jesus. You will note that for this the Jews who heard him proclaim it took up stones to stone him, and the reason --- to their way of thinking Jesus had committed blasphemy by calling himself by God's personal name.

Now you made that up . Jesus was born only 2009 years ago before that he was not hear on this earth and Jesus always talks about the father being greater than him .There is no mention of Jesus when God created Adam.If Jesus is God , then the first verse of your bible would be " Jesus created the heavens and the earth " . " God is all-powerful and is independent, he needs no help from anybody. However so this is not the case with Jesus, unlike God, Jesus needs help from God, unlike God, Jesus does not own any power or any authority, rather it is given to him from God.

I am telling you what is reported with regard to Jesus in the scriptures. While Jesus the man was born a little more than 2009 years ago, the scriptures report with regard to Christ that "all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things" (Colossians 1:16-17). This means that he is the God who created Adam. You're never going to understand the Biblical picture of Jesus as long as you use linear thought. God is outside of time and space, the hard part for us is to understand how it is that God broke into our time and space. I can't explain how either, but from the scriptures and the description of Jesus that we find in them, I know that he did.

 

[Predator]

Additionally, the question put to us in this thread, doesn't require that those things be on the lips of Jesus, they can be stated by others.

As you have see Gen 35:11 Gen 46:3 Exd 16:12Exd 20:2 Jer 32:27 God is not shy to say I am God

So if Jesus is God, then how come jesus never said it once like the God of the Old testament ? The fact that Jesus doesnt come claim that he is God shows that he isnt the same person and he isnt one in essence

they can be stated by others.

This isnt some very unimportant that it should be stated by others and Jesus would ask you to get away if you call him as shown in the below verse

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (Matthew 7:21-23

So, despite your objections, one has to recognize that there are indeed some places where Jesus is described as God.

Show me a verse where Jesus says " I am God", "worship me" or where he says I created the heavens in the earth

But you need to note the different connotation given in the text in the way Jesus is called "the Son of God", completely unlike the way the phrase is used with anyone else.

Son of God also a figure of speech to mean servant of God in the old testament and not the way i am the son of my father

The passage doesn't say that the clasping of feet is what indicated worship. It says that they did both. You may infer that it is a form of worship or not. But the verse itself is a simple declarative statement that Jesus was worshipped.

Just because he got worshipped , doesnt indicate that he is God. If you think anyone who is worshipped should be god, then even the Prophet Daniel should be called God

Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell on his face, prostrate before Daniel, and commanded that they should present an offering and incense to him. The king answered Daniel, and said, ‘Truly your God is the God of gods, the Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, since you could reveal this secret.’ Then the king promoted Daniel and gave him many great gifts; and he made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief administrator over all the wise men of Babylon. Also Daniel petitioned the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego over the affairs of the province of Babylon; but Daniel sat in the gate of the king." Daniel 2:46-49 NKJV

This is an example of what I was speaking about before, something that legitimately causes people to ask questions about how it is that Jesus would be doing this if he was God. So, I understand where the question comes from. But that doesn't deny the reality that Jesus is described as "God with us" and is also described as being and accepting of worshipped in the Biblical text. Given that, perhaps we need to rethink our objections to whatever presuppositions lay behind the projection that Jesus would not be praying to God if he were God.

The fact that Jesus said that his father is greater than him ,all and he cant of Himself do nothing in John 5:30 , does not have the knowledge of the last day and he prays to God and shows that Jesus is lower than God just like all the other Prophets

Jeremiah was known before he was formed in his mothers womb. Jesus says "I AM" before Abraham was born. A radically different concept that what you speak of with regard to Jeremiah. As God who lives outside of time has ordained all the days of our lives before even one of them is known (to us at least), so Jeremiah can be called to be a prophet before his birth. But what John does in this passage is to very intentionally choose the very name of God "I AM" and put it on the lips of Jesus. You will note that for this the Jews who heard him proclaim it took up stones to stone him, and the reason --- to their way of thinking Jesus had committed blasphemy by calling himself by God's personal name.

It is claimed that Jesus used the words, "I am", and since these same words were used by God to describe Himself to the people in the Old Testament, Jesus was claiming to be God. John 8:58, is presented to back this claim. In the verse, Jesus says: " Before Abraham was I am. (John 8:58)" Now, if Jesus existed before Abraham did, that might be a remarkable thing, but does that prove that he was God?

How many people existed before Abraham? The Bible presents Jeremiah as being a prophet before he was conceived in his mother's womb; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)" Yet no one says that his pre-human existence qualifies him for deity. In Exodus chapter 3, God allegedly says: "I am what I am." Long before the time of Jesus, there existed a Greek translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. The key word, "I am," in Exodus which is used by Christians to prove the deity of Jesus is translated as "HO ON." However, when Jesus uses the word in John 8:58 the Greek of the "I am," is EGO EIMI. If Jesus wanted to tell the Jews that he was claiming to be God he should have at least remained consistent in the use of words or the whole point is lost. How many people in that age would have said "I am," in answer to questions in everyday life. Billions. Are they all gods? Of course not !.

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

How can a Man be a Prophet before he came into his mother's womb and similarly how can Jesus be a God before he came into his mother's womb

While Jesus the man was born a little more than 2009 years ago

Where was Jesus before 2009 years ? With the Father ? In what Form ?
Was Jesus this 30 year old man who was with the God walking , talking dining and relaxing with God and now God tells Jesus "I am reduces u and into and send it to Mary's womb and she carries him for 9 months and will give birth to you like any other human child.
So now we understand Jeremiah was with God, Jesus was with God, Mohammed was with God , Alexander with God and every Tom , Dick and Harry was with God

the scriptures report with regard to Christ that "all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things" (Colossians 1:16-17).

These are the words of a third person and not of Jesus . I am yet to see a verse where Jesus says with his own words " I am God", "worship me" or where he says "I created the heavens in the earth " just like his father

This means that he is the God who created Adam. You're never going to understand the Biblical picture of Jesus as long as you use linear thought.

This isnt linear thought ,no mention of Jesus as his partner in God's 10 commandments as he said "There is God besides me " if he Jesus was one in a trinity that God would have made it very clear to Moses that he is one of a trinity - a 3 headed god

 

[Grace Seeker]

These are the words of a third person and not of Jesus . I am yet to see a verse where Jesus says with his own words " I am God", "worship me" or where he says "I created the heavens in the earth " just like his father

You are wanting to argue whether or not Jesus claimed to be God. That is a topic for another thread. This one is only whether there is any Biblical evidence that describes Jesus as God? And this third person evidence is indeed found in the Bible.

no mention of Jesus as his partner in God's 10 commandments as he said "There is God besides me " if he Jesus was one in a trinity that God would have made it very clear to Moses that he is one of a trinity - a 3 headed god

Which makes a number of assumptions:
1) Moses knew all there was to know about the nature of God.
2) That God reveals all there is to know about himself every time he reveals anything about himself.
3) That God existing within his own nature as a triune being equates to having partners.

I am not willing to admit to even one of those assumptions being true.

 

[Predator]

This one is only whether there is any Biblical evidence that describes Jesus as God? And this third person evidence is indeed found in the Bible.

[/QUOTE]

And there are others like these as well

(e) "Ye men of Israel (O Jews!) hear these words; Jesus of
Nazareth, A MAN approved of God (meaning a prophet)
among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which GOD
DID BY HIM in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also
know." ACTS 2:22

 

[Grace Seeker]

And there are others like these as well

(e) "Ye men of Israel (O Jews!) hear these words; Jesus of
Nazareth, A MAN approved of God (meaning a prophet)
among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which GOD
DID BY HIM in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also
know." ACTS 2:22[/QUOTE]


I repeat:

You are wanting to argue whether or not Jesus claimed to be God. That is a topic for another thread. This one [i.e., this thread] is only [about] whether there is any Biblical evidence that describes Jesus as God?

You seem to continue to miss the point. You can find 100, even 1000 passages that refer to Jesus to being a man, I have no problem with any of them, but all are irrelevant to this thread. As to the actual issue posed by the question which is the topic sentence for this thread, I only have to find 1 biblical passage that points to Jesus being God to answer the question posed as the topic for this thread in the affirmative. And the answer is: "YES, there is Biblical evidence that describes Jesus as God."