Islam and Gun Control
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Nokiacrazi
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I speak with no authority. I myself believe that if you are in a situation where your own life is in danger you can kill the person who is endangering your life. However, you should wait for someone with more knowledge to reply insha'Allah.
islamirama
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Islam does not allow nor prohibit guns or any other weapons. In the old days, people used to carry around swords and daggers and that was the norm. In the cowboy days in the west everyone carried guns opening outside and that was the norm. Today there really isn't any need for all that. Having weapons around gives people the opportunity to do evil. Guns are banned in arab world and no one can find anywhere to buy one. The crime rate there is drastically low than in the west where guns are easily attainable. Whether you are looking at nations or individual people. having weapons always means someone will bully the other while having no weapons will deter such actions. With that said, Islam does allow one to defend themselves. whether that person carries a gun or any other weapon or not will depend on the environment he is in and the best way possible to ensure one's safety.
Hey, thanks for your replies guys, it seems the consensus is that self defense is acceptable in Islam. I would like to know if the attacker in a self defense situation is unintentionally killed by the person attacked, in Islam would that person still be guilty of murder - I know in Christianity they have the "principle of the double effect" to explain a situation where one intent (defending oneself) can have two consequences, one intended (self defense) the other unintended (killing the attacker) in this situation in Christianity the person would not be guilty of murder - does Islam have an equivilant?
I am completely unfamiliar with Islam so forgive my following question - doe Islam have an official source for its principals on self defense etc. The Catholic Church for example has the Catechism which explains their faith relating to modern concepts like the issue of weapons.
I find it interesting that Islamic countries have no guns and low crime. Just to be thorough is it possible that there are other reasons for low crime in Islamic countries, perhaps a social aversion to violence and respect for others could explain it... presumably their are still lots of (potential) weapons in Islamic countries - kitchen knives, cars, garden tools, bats which someone with lethal intent could use to kill. To my way of thinking a low crime/ murder rate does not necessarly denote a low availability of weapons but a society where people do not have the desire or reason to want to kill in the first place. The notion that weapons allow someone to be bullied whilst an absence of weapons deter such actions is an interesting one. My understanding is a in a society with no weapons the physically strong can bully the physically weak quite easily. Whereas a society with weapons removes physical strength from the equation allowing the physically weak to defend themselves as an equal. This would explain why concealed carry laws in America have resulted in dramatic reductions in Rape for example. If a women is walking home without a gun she would be easy prey for anyone with harmful intent, carrying one may deter an attacker and will allow her to defend herself if attacked. In saying this I am not defending carrying a gun per se, I am just hoping this will help clarify answers so I can get a better understanding of Islam.
So I guess I am interested to know what Islam says on the above, speaking practically is there any reason why an Islamic person in America for example couldn't carry a gun for self defense?
Look forward to your replies and does anyone know any quotes from the Koran relivant to the discussion?
Thanks,
Matt.
I am completely unfamiliar with Islam so forgive my following question - doe Islam have an official source for its principals on self defense etc. The Catholic Church for example has the Catechism which explains their faith relating to modern concepts like the issue of weapons.
I find it interesting that Islamic countries have no guns and low crime. Just to be thorough is it possible that there are other reasons for low crime in Islamic countries, perhaps a social aversion to violence and respect for others could explain it... presumably their are still lots of (potential) weapons in Islamic countries - kitchen knives, cars, garden tools, bats which someone with lethal intent could use to kill. To my way of thinking a low crime/ murder rate does not necessarly denote a low availability of weapons but a society where people do not have the desire or reason to want to kill in the first place. The notion that weapons allow someone to be bullied whilst an absence of weapons deter such actions is an interesting one. My understanding is a in a society with no weapons the physically strong can bully the physically weak quite easily. Whereas a society with weapons removes physical strength from the equation allowing the physically weak to defend themselves as an equal. This would explain why concealed carry laws in America have resulted in dramatic reductions in Rape for example. If a women is walking home without a gun she would be easy prey for anyone with harmful intent, carrying one may deter an attacker and will allow her to defend herself if attacked. In saying this I am not defending carrying a gun per se, I am just hoping this will help clarify answers so I can get a better understanding of Islam.
So I guess I am interested to know what Islam says on the above, speaking practically is there any reason why an Islamic person in America for example couldn't carry a gun for self defense?
Look forward to your replies and does anyone know any quotes from the Koran relivant to the discussion?
Thanks,
Matt.
islamirama
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Hello matt,
Intentions play a big role in Islam. If one kills the attacker unintentionally than inshallah (God willing) no sin is on him but if he in return intends to kill his attacker than he also has made the intention to kill and sin would be on him as well if he kills the attacker with that intention. One is rewarded or not based on their intentions and not just action alone. In terms of Self defense, one is allowed to defend themselves as mentioned below by a scholar.
Not all Muslim nations are gun free, and i say muslim nations not "islamic" nations because you will hardly find any islamic nations. An Islamic nation would be one that is ruled by and governed by islamic principles. We only have Muslim nations just as we have christian nations, based on the dominance of religion of that country. Anyways, Arab countries are gun free for the most part and other Muslim nations (like pakistan) has plenty of guns there. The reason isn't as much that it is gun free as the values, norms and customs of that society. Not just Muslim countries but eastern countries in general are more conservative based on community oriented lifestyle vs western capitalist nations that preach putting one's needs/desires above the community where one is raised to be an opportunist who thinks of himself. Main difference between west and East (muslim or not) is that in the west everyone thinks in terms of "I' and while in east it is the opposite with a "we" mindset. Because of this community based view on society, people tend to care about their position the community and don't commit crime nor the majority want to because they all know each other in the community and get along well. In the west, majority are strangers to their own neighbors.
Guns have not decreased the crimes in the west as you suggest, There is a person raped very 1 minute in the USA alone. This is not the old wilde west where you can hang your gun outside on the holster to deter away would be attackers, no one knows if you have a gun or mase spray or what not and its too late to pull it out when an attacker jumps you. Majority of the Muslims don't carry guns in the west even though the 2nd Amendment gives the right to bear arms. This is something only the americans indulge in. Unless you are living in an unsafe area such as downtown cleveland, OH or Detroit or other such place, there really isnt a need to carry a gun. And today its just not safe to get a gun any way, for Muslims that is. US gov't in their war on Islam are putting innocent Muslims away as "terrorists" with bogus charges, what chance will a Muslim has who decides to get a gun?
Intentions play a big role in Islam. If one kills the attacker unintentionally than inshallah (God willing) no sin is on him but if he in return intends to kill his attacker than he also has made the intention to kill and sin would be on him as well if he kills the attacker with that intention. One is rewarded or not based on their intentions and not just action alone. In terms of Self defense, one is allowed to defend themselves as mentioned below by a scholar.
As for level of authority or source for all this, Muslims refer to the Quran, the hadith (recorded sayings of the Prophet Muhammad) and the Sunnah (life example and ways of the Prophet Muhammad) for any judging. The scholars would look at all that and what the previously scholars/judges ruled in similar cases to make any judgment or ruling. There are no guidelines or restrictions on what weapons to use or not (unless there's reason for it) as far as i know, islam is flexible and easy.
Not all Muslim nations are gun free, and i say muslim nations not "islamic" nations because you will hardly find any islamic nations. An Islamic nation would be one that is ruled by and governed by islamic principles. We only have Muslim nations just as we have christian nations, based on the dominance of religion of that country. Anyways, Arab countries are gun free for the most part and other Muslim nations (like pakistan) has plenty of guns there. The reason isn't as much that it is gun free as the values, norms and customs of that society. Not just Muslim countries but eastern countries in general are more conservative based on community oriented lifestyle vs western capitalist nations that preach putting one's needs/desires above the community where one is raised to be an opportunist who thinks of himself. Main difference between west and East (muslim or not) is that in the west everyone thinks in terms of "I' and while in east it is the opposite with a "we" mindset. Because of this community based view on society, people tend to care about their position the community and don't commit crime nor the majority want to because they all know each other in the community and get along well. In the west, majority are strangers to their own neighbors.
Guns have not decreased the crimes in the west as you suggest, There is a person raped very 1 minute in the USA alone. This is not the old wilde west where you can hang your gun outside on the holster to deter away would be attackers, no one knows if you have a gun or mase spray or what not and its too late to pull it out when an attacker jumps you. Majority of the Muslims don't carry guns in the west even though the 2nd Amendment gives the right to bear arms. This is something only the americans indulge in. Unless you are living in an unsafe area such as downtown cleveland, OH or Detroit or other such place, there really isnt a need to carry a gun. And today its just not safe to get a gun any way, for Muslims that is. US gov't in their war on Islam are putting innocent Muslims away as "terrorists" with bogus charges, what chance will a Muslim has who decides to get a gun?
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glo
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That's interesting, islamirama.
When you say 'in the old days, people used to carry around swords and daggers', do you mean in Mohammed's days?
If so, can you point me to any hadith or fatwa which might explain why that practice stopped, and weapons and guns are now prohibited in Islam?
I am assuming that there are exceptions to that rule - for example in a self-defence or wartime situation ...
Matthew, you have to remember that carrying weapons and having guns in your house is something which may be commonplace in the US, but isn't in other countries.
Having lives in Europe all my life, the idea of 'normal people' having weapons in their homes seems very alien.
It seems quite logical to me that the more weapons there are available, the more likely that they will be used and cause harm ...
freethinking
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Greetins a very interesting discussion. My understanding From the Bible and particualrly the new testament is if someone is threatening to kill you, put your failth in God and put your life in God's hands, if it is time for God to call you to him then it is Gods will, if not and God wishes you to do some work for him here you will not die.
Miricles still happen today.
Bless the person in peace and respect and you will find - if you have big faith in your heart;that they casnnot kill you
Blessings to you
Miricles still happen today.
Bless the person in peace and respect and you will find - if you have big faith in your heart;that they casnnot kill you
Blessings to you
Abz2000
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It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:
A man came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said:
O Messenger of Allaah, what do you think if a man comes wanting to take my property?
He said: “Do not give him your property.”
He said: What if he fights me?
He said: “Fight him.”
He said: What if he kills me?
He said: “Then you will be a martyr.”
He said: What if I kill him?
He said: “He will be in Hell.”
Narrated by Muslim (140).
especially when fearing treachery from oppressors and wrongdoers:
And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, only a group of them should be with you, and they must keep their weapons with them; so when they have performed their prostrations they should move away behind you; and the other group that had not prayed, must come and offer prayers in your leadership, keeping their guard and weapons with them; the disbelievers wish that you neglect your arms and your means so they may overpower you with a single attack; it is no sin for you to lay aside your arms due to rain or if you are sick; and keep your guard; undoubtedly Allah has kept prepared a disgraceful punishment for the disbelievers.
[Quran 4:102]
After the ummah gave their allegiance to Abu Bakr (ra), he said this:
O People! I have been put in authority over you and I am not the best of you. So if I do the right thing then help me and if I do wrong then put me straight. Truthfulness is a sacred trust and lying is a betrayal. The weak amongst you is strong in my sight. I will surely try to remove his pain and suffering. And the strong amongst you is weak to me I will – Allah willing – realise the right from him fully. When obscene things spread among any nation, calamities generally continued to descend upon them. As long as I obey Allah and His messenger, you should obey me, and if I do not obey Allah and His messenger, then obedience to me is not incumbent upon you. (Now prepare for prayer).
you may want to ask yourself how the people would have done this if the leader had more power than the people.
you may want to reflect
the us is meant to be a government OF THE PEOPLE by the people.
so the people's interests come before the politicians.
would you say that the people had no right to bear arms and wait 10 minutes for the police while shrieking as some criminal (who can always get guns) refills the clip and carries on shooting until they come.
and that the politicians had more right to use the people's money for armed guards while they stole their rights from them?
and would you think weapons were safer in the hands of psychopath criminals like bush than the people who constituted the country and were considered "free"
throughout history - free men have always maintained the right to keep and bear arms while slaves have been limited due to fear of rebellion and mutiny.
they have on numerous occasions used this right to overthrow tyrannical kings and dictators.
a clear example is the american war of independence,
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations,
pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,
it is their right,
it is their duty,
to throw off such Government,
and to provide new Guards for their future security.
— Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies;
and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.
The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations,
all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.
To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
do read the declaration when you get time.
peace
btw freethinking, here is a reference to the latter day saints:
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
revelation 13:10 :embarrass
peace
A man came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said:
O Messenger of Allaah, what do you think if a man comes wanting to take my property?
He said: “Do not give him your property.”
He said: What if he fights me?
He said: “Fight him.”
He said: What if he kills me?
He said: “Then you will be a martyr.”
He said: What if I kill him?
He said: “He will be in Hell.”
Narrated by Muslim (140).
especially when fearing treachery from oppressors and wrongdoers:
And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, only a group of them should be with you, and they must keep their weapons with them; so when they have performed their prostrations they should move away behind you; and the other group that had not prayed, must come and offer prayers in your leadership, keeping their guard and weapons with them; the disbelievers wish that you neglect your arms and your means so they may overpower you with a single attack; it is no sin for you to lay aside your arms due to rain or if you are sick; and keep your guard; undoubtedly Allah has kept prepared a disgraceful punishment for the disbelievers.
[Quran 4:102]
After the ummah gave their allegiance to Abu Bakr (ra), he said this:
O People! I have been put in authority over you and I am not the best of you. So if I do the right thing then help me and if I do wrong then put me straight. Truthfulness is a sacred trust and lying is a betrayal. The weak amongst you is strong in my sight. I will surely try to remove his pain and suffering. And the strong amongst you is weak to me I will – Allah willing – realise the right from him fully. When obscene things spread among any nation, calamities generally continued to descend upon them. As long as I obey Allah and His messenger, you should obey me, and if I do not obey Allah and His messenger, then obedience to me is not incumbent upon you. (Now prepare for prayer).
you may want to ask yourself how the people would have done this if the leader had more power than the people.
you may want to reflect
the us is meant to be a government OF THE PEOPLE by the people.
so the people's interests come before the politicians.
would you say that the people had no right to bear arms and wait 10 minutes for the police while shrieking as some criminal (who can always get guns) refills the clip and carries on shooting until they come.
and that the politicians had more right to use the people's money for armed guards while they stole their rights from them?
and would you think weapons were safer in the hands of psychopath criminals like bush than the people who constituted the country and were considered "free"
throughout history - free men have always maintained the right to keep and bear arms while slaves have been limited due to fear of rebellion and mutiny.
they have on numerous occasions used this right to overthrow tyrannical kings and dictators.
a clear example is the american war of independence,
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations,
pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,
it is their right,
it is their duty,
to throw off such Government,
and to provide new Guards for their future security.
— Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies;
and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.
The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations,
all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.
To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
do read the declaration when you get time.
peace
btw freethinking, here is a reference to the latter day saints:
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
revelation 13:10 :embarrass
peace