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The Comparative Religion web contains selections on topics pertinent to Islam or common to Islam, Christianity, Judaism and other religions. These articles provide Islamic perspectives on common issues and highlight differences among the various religions.
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Referencing your link regarding the Gospel of Barnabas, I read this line:
it was ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script should be destroyed.
Click to expand...
They did not give any reference for that comment. I have never seen any documentation that such an order was ever given. Nor (accept recently in Islamic circles only) that any of the Gospels were originally written in Hebrew. I have seen some discussion that there may have been early writings in Aramaic, stories about Jesus, that were lost to the winds of history. But never anything regarding the writing or destruction of anything written in Hebrew.

Do you know of any sources for that information?
 
From a 'neutral' point of view, if you like, I also am not aware that any of the gospels, either biblical or apocryphal, were authored in Hebrew.

Although there were claims that a copy of the Gospel of Barnabas written in Syriac/Aramaic (which would hardly pin down time or place of origin much, anyway) they proved unfounded and the earliest copies actually known are in Italian and Spanish. The only serious scholarly debate is to which of those came first. It is medieval in origin at the earliest, possibly copied from an Arabic 'forgery', of which several other examples are known.
 
Quite a funny site.

Reading your "Dr's" analysis on how Muhommod is the Moshiach mentioned in the Tanakh is laughable. Or did Mohammod bring world peace, unite the world in beliving the one G-d, and resume sacrifices in the Temple?

Your "Dr's" logic seems to be flawed. Very flawed.
 
IzakHalevas said:
Quite a funny site.

Reading your "Dr's" analysis on how Muhommod is the Moshiach mentioned in the Tanakh is laughable. Or did Mohammod bring world peace, unite the world in beliving the one G-d, and resume sacrifices in the Temple?

Your "Dr's" logic seems to be flawed. Very flawed.
Click to expand...

Where do you live, man? Do you live in Turkey? Your name resembles Turkey's Head Haham.
 
Grace Seeker said:
Referencing your link regarding the Gospel of Barnabas, I read this line:
They did not give any reference for that comment. I have never seen any documentation that such an order was ever given. Nor (accept recently in Islamic circles only) that any of the Gospels were originally written in Hebrew. I have seen some discussion that there may have been early writings in Aramaic, stories about Jesus, that were lost to the winds of history. But never anything regarding the writing or destruction of anything written in Hebrew.

Do you know of any sources for that information?
Click to expand...

:sl:

Peace, Sister in humanity,

there is a growing consensus that the synoptic gospels were based on Hebrew or Aramean documents.

linky poo:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=245&letter=N

there are also some recent books on the subject. here's a few:

Jewish New Testament Commentary by David Stern co 1992 by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc.

Restoring The Jewishness of the Gospel, also by David Stern co 1988 by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc

Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus, New Insights From a Hebraic Perspective by David Bivin & Roy Blizzard, Jr. revised edition co1994 by Destiny Image Publishers, Inc.


Peace,

:w:

Yusuf
 
YusufNoor said:
:sl:

Peace, Sister in humanity,

there is a growing consensus that the synoptic gospels were based on Hebrew or Aramean documents.

linky poo:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=245&letter=N

there are also some recent books on the subject. here's a few:

Jewish New Testament Commentary by David Stern co 1992 by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc.

Restoring The Jewishness of the Gospel, also by David Stern co 1988 by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc

Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus, New Insights From a Hebraic Perspective by David Bivin & Roy Blizzard, Jr. revised edition co1994 by Destiny Image Publishers, Inc.


Peace,

:w:

Yusuf
Click to expand...

There is nothing whatsoever Jewish about the "Gospel" or "New Testament".

Where do you live, man? Do you live in Turkey? Your name resembles Turkey's Head Haham.
Click to expand...

Izak Halevas is the head Rabbi of Turkey. I made it myt username in honor of him because he is so wise.
 
YusufNoor said:
:sl:

Peace, Sister in humanity,

there is a growing consensus that the synoptic gospels were based on Hebrew or Aramean documents.

linky poo:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=245&letter=N

there are also some recent books on the subject. here's a few:

Jewish New Testament Commentary by David Stern co 1992 by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc.

Restoring The Jewishness of the Gospel, also by David Stern co 1988 by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc

Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus, New Insights From a Hebraic Perspective by David Bivin & Roy Blizzard, Jr. revised edition co1994 by Destiny Image Publishers, Inc.


Peace,

:w:

Yusuf
Click to expand...

I don't get your point Yusuf. Every Bible student knows that Jesus would have spoken in Aramaic. All of the stories in the canonical Gospels would have been originally told and shared in Aramaic. And not only in their first telling, but also in subsequent retellings until they were finally written down by their respective evangelists. There is nothing new in that assertion. Unless you are trying to say that the original forms of the writings of those gospels were themselves in Aramaic. Then I would I have to take issue with you. No doubt, Matthew probably did use some source material that was either an Aramaic oral tradition or perhaps even a written document. But that actual document has never been found, and thus is not and never was a part of the original Bible.

Are the stories that Jesus (pbuh) told Jewish in character? Duh? As the saying goes -- Is the Pope Catholic?. Jesus was Jewish. Much of his teaching paralleled the teaching of the Rabbis of his day, especially that of the party of the Pharisees.

I must confess that I am sometimes amazed at the things which good sincere individuals post that they don't believe in, thinking that in doing so they are challenging one of my long held Christian beliefs. Over half the time, I don't believe in those things either. I think people are often just happen to be misinformed as to what it is that Christians do and don't believe.

Perhaps you have had discussions with an atheist who tells you that they don't believe in a vengeful, judgmental God, and then they go on to describe as God a being so terrible and unlike God that you don't even recognize the "god" they are talking about. I know I have run into that. In situations like that, I actually have to join the athiests in saying I don't believe in a "god" like that either. But they miss the point, they have invented a "god" that is completely unlike the real God, and then because they can prove that it isn't real God think they have disproved the existence of God. They have done nothing, for no one is claiming that to be the true God that you and I believe in.

For me, something similar happens when I start talking with Muslims about the origins of the Bible. People try to prove to me that a Bible without any Hebrew or Aramaic background to it could not have existed. Well, exactly. Every Christian knows that the Bible began, indeed the whole writing of it for well over 1000 years was completely in a Hebrew culture, context, and language. And by the time of Jesus, we must also speak of an Aramaic language and culture. So, we join you in saying we don't believe in a Bible devoid of a Jewish background. That culture, language, background shows clearly even in the writings of Paul, who was perhaps singularly responsible for the movement of Christianity away from its Jewish roots.

Yet all of that put together doesn't prove anything. As even the article you linked to stated, the first writings of what actually became the New Testament were in Greek and then later were translated into many other languages, among them Aramaic. Yes the original stories would have been first told in Aramaic. And perhaps there were even earlier writings, now lost, that were compilations of those storied in Aramaic. But the books that we have today that are named Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, the various letters written by Paul, and the other letters were undoubtedly penned in Greek in their original form.

But even proving that would prove nothing, for as you said and I already knew. All of these people brought to their writing core Jewish beliefs and Aramaic ways of thinking that would be expressed in their writing even as they wrote in Greek. So, you will still observe the Hebrew/Jewish/Aramaic "origin" of thoughts in the "original" Greek penned documents.
 
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:sl:

Peace Sister,

i believe your original statement that i was referring to was that you didn't know of any documents relating to the original gospels being in Hebrew. figuring brother Izak, would chime in, i included a Jewish source.

the books, deal directly with the issue of the "Hebrew"ness of the original gospel. i assumed i was giving you the information that you were looking for.:-\

there's also another book Yeshua A Guide to the Real Jesus and the Original Church by Dr. Ron Moseley; as well another entitled "They Loved The Torah" or something. but, i can't seem to find it 'round here

I must confess that I am sometimes amazed at the things which good sincere individuals post that they don't believe in, thinking that in doing so they are challenging one of my long held Christian beliefs. Over half the time, I don't believe in those things either. I think people are often just happen to be misinformed as to what it is that Christians do and don't believe.
Click to expand...

hmmm, that's a two parter actually. the reason that i'm aware of those books is that i own them and have read them. i DO believe that Jesus/Yeshua/Isa(as) WAS the Jewish Messiah! don't think there's much debate about it (well, except with our Jewish brethren! :okay: ). Islam ALSO agrees with that!

the second part though, tbh, is pro'lly true. not, because i'm a Muslim now, but because i've been challenging alot of those beliefs for decades now. not because they are YOUR beliefs, but because they are ANY "Christians" beliefs. i've had these discussions with all my friends as well as my mother, sons, ex-wife.

don't take it so personal. i assumed you were on a Muslim board to "enlighten" Muslims as to what "you believe" Christianity is. Muslims, in general, don't take time to "study" Christiany. i HAVE! in the thread that you started about not all churches being Christian, it appears that you exclude ANY church that believes in a more "Jewish" form of Christianity. i guess i will take exception to that here, there, ANYWHERE!

i really DO recommend those books for "Christians". also the book you referred to in another thread "Who Wrote The Bible?", is AWESOME! well worth the read!

Jesus' message wasn't Jewish in "nature", it was 100% Jewish. it also agrees with the Hillel school of the Pharisees. (oh, sorry Izak ;D )

"Hold fast to what is true"

so what's true? are Christmas, Easter and Sunday worship "true"?

[editeditedit] Astaghfirullah, Astaghfirullah, Astaghfirullah. oh my, that sounded rude.

peace,

:w:
 
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Dear Christian brothers and sister,
Do you like reading? Go on.....

http://muhammad.net/biblelp/index.htm

Muhammad in the Bible

What all Christians and Jews MUST know about the Bible

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Certainly, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and those who are Pagans, and you will find the nearest in love to the Believers (Muslims) those who say: "We are Christians." That is because amongst them are priests (Men devoted to learning) and monks (men who have renounced the world), and because they do not behave proudly. And when they listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger (Muhammad), you see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognize the truth. They say: "Our Lord! We believe; so write us down among the witnesses. And why should we not believe in Allah and in that which has come to us of the truth (Islamic Monotheism) and we wish that our Lord will admit us (in Paradise on the Day of Resurrection) along with the righteous people?" So because of what they said, Allah rewarded them Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), they will abide therein forever. Such is the reward of good-doers. But those who disbelieved and denied Our signs, they shall be the dwellers of the Hell-Fire." [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Holy Qur'an 5:82-86) [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Biography Of Professor David Benjamin Keldani: Former Roman Catholic Bishop of the Uniate Chaldean[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Muhammad In The Old Testament[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Prefatory Remarks, Allah And His Attributes "And The Ahmed Of All Nations Will Come." - Haggai, ii.7. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Question Of The Birthright And The Covenant [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Mystery Of The "Mispa" [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Prophet Muhammad Is The "Shiloh" [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Prophet Muhammad And The Emperor Constantine [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Prophet Muhammad Is The Son-Of-Man [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King David Calls Him: "My Lord" [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Lord And The Prophet Of The Covenant [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Genuine Prophets Preach Only Islam [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Islam Is The Kingdom Of God On Earth [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Prophet Muhammad In The New Testament[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Islam And Ahmadiyat Announced By Angels [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Eudokia" Means "Ahmadiyeh" [Luke ii. 14] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]John The Baptist Announces A Powerful Prophet [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Prophet Foretold By The Baptist Was Certainly Prophet Muhammad - John The Baptist Foretold Prophet Muhammad [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Baptism Of John And Jesus Only A Type Of Religious Marking "Sibghatullah" [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The "Sibghatullah," Or The Baptism With The Holy Spirit And With Fire [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The "Paraclete" Is Not The Holy Spirit [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Periqlytos" Means "Ahmad" [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The Son Of Man," Who Is He? [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By The Apocalyptical "Son Of Man," Prophet Muhammad Is Intended [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Son Of Man According To The Jewish Apocalypses [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Prophet Of Arabia As Spoken Of In The Bible "The Burden Upon Arabia" - Isaiah xxi. 13. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]

​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Acknowledgment:The entire set of articles was taken fromwww.islamicweb.com and reformatted for www.muhammad.net The following message is from www.islamicweb.com. The title of the book is, "Muhammad in the Bible." See [/FONT]seerah_books.html for a list of bookstores to purchase.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]No Copyright notice from islamicweb.com: Any organization or individual wishing to reprint or copy the contents of this website may do so as long as the information is kept in its original form, names of all authors and sources are kept intact and is used for non-malicious purposes. An acknowledgement would be HIGHLY appreciated.[/FONT][/FONT]​
 
The amount of mistrnslated, taken out of context verses is astounding. Why don't Muslims just rely on there faith instead of having the need to mistranslate and decieve people to think there religion has any relevance in the Old Testament?
 

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