[nasir_1990]

Recently I've been thinking about the universe etc and I wondered what the Quran said about space and the universe and beyond it?

 

[Sawdah]

Here's an explanation of the expansion of the universe (Quran & Science video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36nFqw9Cix0&feature=related

Also on stars :

With regard to the stars, the scholars of Islam say that Allaah created these stars for three reasons: to adorn the heavens, to drive away the devils (shayaateen) and as signs for navigation. (Saheeh al-Bukhaari, Kitaab Bad’ al-Khalq), as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is He Who has set the stars for you, so that you may guide your course with their help through the darkness of the land and the sea…” [al-An’aam 6:97]

“And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made such lamps (as) missiles to drive away the shayaateen (devils), and have prepared for them the torment of the blazing Fire.” [al-Mulk 67:5]

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/1528

Hope that helps inshaAllah.
ASA.

 

[CosmicPathos]

I do not think that Stars are there to drive the jinns away. There is a difference in stars and comets. Stars dont run across the space, they do rotate and revolve around the center of the galaxy but they dont "shoot around."

I do not think Allah (swt) needs stars/comets to fire away as MISSILES at the jinns. Can I fire away a stone as a missile at the jinn? no ... why would then comets (sort of humongous stones) move the jinns away?

 

[nasir_1990]

Thanks for that video, truly amazing how it was written so long ago and yet scientist have recently discovered that the universe expands. All the stars and the galaxys out there and yet we are so small.

 

[ardianto]

I do not think that Stars are there to drive the jinns away. There is a difference in stars and comets. Stars dont run across the space, they do rotate and revolve around the center of the galaxy but they dont "shoot around."

I do not think Allah (swt) needs stars/comets to fire away as MISSILES at the jinns. Can I fire away a stone as a missile at the jinn? no ... why would then comets (sort of humongous stones) move the jinns away?

According to some scholars, there was a mistake in translate/interpret "old style Arabic" in Qur'an into "today Arabic" or other languages. "Rajm" in surah 67:5 is not throw or drive away, but 'tell fortune map' for astrology.

 

[CosmicPathos]

According to some scholars, there was a mistake in translate/interpret "old style Arabic" in Qur'an into "today Arabic" or other languages. "Rajm" in surah 67:5 is not throw or drive away, but 'tell fortune map' for astrology.

jazakAllah. Reading that verse as it is translated has weakened my faith in the past as it is completely unscientific, superstitious and grossly wrong. I told my mom that stars/comets are not missiles for driving the jinns away, she only said that i am letting "science" take over my beliefs and was worried about my supposedly decreasing faith ... imsad

The word is properly translated as "lamps." These lamps DO NOT have to be stars or comets. I believe these are meant to be spiritual lamps, which we humans cannot see, but spirits can.

 

[Muhammad]

^ Akhee, we are not allowed to interpret the Qur'an based upon our own opinions and limited understanding. To look at the usage of words etc. one must have a solid grounding in the Arabic language and even then, interpretation requires knowledge of the other sciences of the Qur'an (which are many). Note that there are other ayat which also refer to the phenomenon of Jinns being chased by meteors/stars, as well as hadeeth such as the one quoted from al-Bukhaari.

As to the exact nature of the object - whether it is a star or a meteor etc. - Allaah (swt) knows best, but we should acknowledge that such a phenomenon exists even if we don't understand the exact details. If we were to start using our own intellect, this might lead one to think that the whole concept of Jinns is "unscientific", yet we affirm whatever Allaah (swt) has taught us, even if we do not understand it, and have certainty that it is the truth.

And Allaah (swt) knows best.

 

[CosmicPathos]

^ Akhee, we are not allowed to interpret the Qur'an based upon our own opinions and limited understanding. To look at the usage of words etc. one must have a solid grounding in the Arabic language and even then, interpretation requires knowledge of the other sciences of the Qur'an (which are many). Note that there are other ayat which also refer to the phenomenon of Jinns being chased by meteors/stars, as well as hadeeth such as the one quoted from al-Bukhaari.

As to the exact nature of the object - whether it is a star or a meteor etc. - Allaah (swt) knows best, but we should acknowledge that such a phenomenon exists even if we don't understand the exact details. If we were to start using our own intellect, this might lead one to think that the whole concept of Jinns is "unscientific", yet we affirm whatever Allaah (swt) has taught us, even if we do not understand it, and have certainty that it is the truth.

And Allaah (swt) knows best.

:wa:

I understand what you mean. Regarding jinns being unprovable via science, I know that yet still have faith in their existence.

But regarding comets chasing them down, it appears from studies that these comets are orbiting around the Sun and there is nothing unusual about them. They are made of rock and ice and continue to travel in orbits ... I do not see how that can act as a missile for jinns? :hmm:

I also realize that one has to be versed in Arabic to do the correct translation by keeping in view the modern understanding of reality. In this case, it seems inappropriate to wrongly interpret Quran: to say that comets are missiles for Jinn.

Wallahu Aalam.

Regarding faith, yes, we have faith in unseen things. But faith in a seen thing (comet) acting as a missile for a jinn ..... I cant seem to take this leap of faith. I do however agree with the verse in Quran that there are certain things which Allah (swt) has adorned the lowest heaven with and these things are somehow related to controlling devils etc. Allhamdulillah, no reason to reject the verse as that would be kufr. Just trying to properly understand it.
:wa:

 

[M.A.S.H.]

The word is properly translated as "lamps." These lamps DO NOT have to be stars or comets. I believe these are meant to be spiritual lamps, which we humans cannot see, but spirits can.

What about the hadith (mentioned in a previous post) that says these lamps are used for navigation?

 

[Ishaaq]

The word is properly translated as "lamps." These lamps DO NOT have to be stars or comets. I believe these are meant to be spiritual lamps, which we humans cannot see, but spirits can.

This is incorrect.

The lamps as mentioned in the Quraan are the stars, shooting stars, comets, etc. (the sun is also referred to as a lamp in the Quraan). This is because the verse also mentions that these lamps are located in the nearest heaven, (as there are seven heavens). The nearest heaven refers to the outer space which contains the sun, moon, planets, stars, comets, shooting stars, etc.

[FONT=Georgia, Verdana]And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made such lamps (as) missiles to drive away the Shayâtin (devils), and have prepared for them the torment of the blazing Fire. [/FONT] (Al-Mulk 67:5)

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

here is something useful, inshallah.

 

[CosmicPathos]

This is incorrect.

The lamps as mentioned in the Quraan are the stars, shooting stars, comets, etc. (the sun is also referred to as a lamp in the Quraan). This is because the verse also mentions that these lamps are located in the nearest heaven, (as there are seven heavens). The nearest heaven refers to the outer space which contains the sun, moon, planets, stars, comets, shooting stars, etc.

[FONT=Georgia, Verdana]And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made such lamps (as) missiles to drive away the Shayâtin (devils), and have prepared for them the torment of the blazing Fire. [/FONT] (Al-Mulk 67:5)

Well.

So what is it? Star? Shooting star (comet)? A comet is not made of blazing fire so the verse cannot be referring to that. A star is however never shot! It does not move around like a comet does. A star revolves, rotates around galactic axis OR explodes .... how does it pelt shayateen?

 

[CosmicPathos]

This is incorrect.

The lamps as mentioned in the Quraan are the stars, shooting stars, comets, etc. (the sun is also referred to as a lamp in the Quraan). This is because the verse also mentions that these lamps are located in the nearest heaven, (as there are seven heavens). The nearest heaven refers to the outer space which contains the sun, moon, planets, stars, comets, shooting stars, etc.

[FONT=Georgia, Verdana]And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made such lamps (as) missiles to drive away the Shayâtin (devils), and have prepared for them the torment of the blazing Fire. [/FONT] (Al-Mulk 67:5)

[وَلَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا فِى السَّمَاءِ بُرُوجًا وَزَيَّنَّـهَا لِلنَّـظِرِينَ - وَحَفِظْنَـهَا مِن كُلِّ شَيْطَـنٍ رَّجِيمٍ - إِلاَّ مَنِ اسْتَرَقَ السَّمْعَ فَأَتْبَعَهُ شِهَابٌ مُّبِينٌ ]

(And indeed, We have put the big stars in the heaven and We beautified it for the beholders. And We have guarded it from every outcast Shaytan. Except him who steals the hearing then he is pursued by a clear flaming fire.) (15:16-18).


It does not say that the flaming fire is that of the lamps/stars/comets.

 

[Ishaaq]

Well.

So what is it? Star? Shooting star (comet)? A comet is not made of blazing fire so the verse cannot be referring to that. A star is however never shot! It does not move around like a comet does. A star revolves, rotates around galactic axis OR explodes .... how does it pelt shayateen?

Forgive me for not being a scientist like you, but whatever shooting stars are called (comets or whatever) are what is being referred to in the verse as "missiles", and their purpose is to stop the evil devils and demons and spirits known as jinns from flying up to Allaah the Majestic and obtaining secrets of the unseen. As the commentator of the Quraan, ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy upon him) mentioned that the stars which are stationary are not being referred to as the missiles, but rather the stars which are being shot like missiles (shooting stars).

 

[M.A.S.H.]

Perhaps "lamps" denotes different celestial objects that share the property of giving off light .. Stars that can be used in navigation. Stars that cannot be used in navigation (I'm not an astronomer, I'm not sure if every star can be used in navigation, if not, those can be used as an adornment) and comets.

“And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made such lamps (as) missiles to drive away the shayaateen (devils), and have prepared for them the torment of the blazing Fire.” [al-Mulk 67:5]

The problem is that it says we made such (--> refering to the stars used for adornment) stars as missiles.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Forgive me for not being a scientist like you, but whatever shooting stars are called (comets or whatever) are what is being referred to in the verse as "missiles", and their purpose is to stop the evil devils and demons and spirits known as jinns from flying up to Allaah the Majestic and obtaining secrets of the unseen. As the commentator of the Quraan, ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy upon him) mentioned that the stars which are stationary are not being referred to as the missiles, but rather the stars which are being shot like missiles (shooting stars).

I understand what you are saying. The issue though is that what we know of the stars or shooting stars in astronomy, they do not seem to be acting as missiles for anything ... My issue is the current gap between Quranic understanding of this verse and the cosmic reality of what is happening in the lowest heaven as we can detect/observe it.

I'd like any Muslim astronomer to throw light on this contentious issue.

 

[Ishaaq]

Of course its not apparent that the shooting stars are missiles against the devils considering that the devils are invisible.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Of course its not apparent that the shooting stars are missiles against the devils considering that the devils are invisible.

precisely. I would also reckon that devils travel at enormous speeds! So if a shooting star is moving towards the devil as a missile with speeds slower than that of light, the devil can just get out of its way ... :exhausted:hmm:

 

[Ramadhan]

[وَلَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا فِى السَّمَاءِ بُرُوجًا وَزَيَّنَّـهَا لِلنَّـظِرِينَ - وَحَفِظْنَـهَا مِن كُلِّ شَيْطَـنٍ رَّجِيمٍ - إِلاَّ مَنِ اسْتَرَقَ السَّمْعَ فَأَتْبَعَهُ شِهَابٌ مُّبِينٌ ]

(And indeed, We have put the big stars in the heaven and We beautified it for the beholders. And We have guarded it from every outcast Shaytan. Except him who steals the hearing then he is pursued by a clear flaming fire.) (15:16-18).


It does not say that the flaming fire is that of the lamps/stars/comets.

I agree with you.

I don't think "the clear flaming fire" is comet/meteor, because as you wrote, comets and meteors travel at slow speeds and they are clearly not blazing fire.

I suspect this "blazing fire" to be some sort of exotic particles that are emitted by stars (in the verses referred to as "lamps") or maybe by novas/supernovas that could destroy the nature of djinn.

 

[ardianto]

^ Akhee, we are not allowed to interpret the Qur'an based upon our own opinions and limited understanding.

:wa:

I know, Akhee.

If I say "According to some scholars .... " it doesn't mean I agree with them.