Jesus: Divine Son of God or Prophet of Islam?

[safallah]

the statement made by jesus in regards to his reason for being was only sent to the lost sheep of israel, ( meaning only the jews)

 

[safallah]

please read mathew 16/13

 

[sevgi]

jesus was a propeht, many verses in the bilbe, and many prophercies were uttered by jesus of a prophet coming to guide mankind to all truth, check out john ch 15 vs 26

These verses, especially in the New International revised version of the Bible are open to all kinds of interpretation. The people who follow that book have formulated their own understanding of this verse, as have the muslims. Why would you even bring this verse into light? It is no longer some divine revelation which proves Prophet Muhammad's prophethood. It is just a verse up for grabs.

 

[Follower]

You really need to read the whole Gospel to get the jist of who Jesus is.

Matt 16
13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

John 20
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

 

[Follower]

The verses are those in the Gospel validated by the Quran.

 

[rpwelton]

I just read the remarks in the comments section and report on what I see. Perhaps I am being too harsh on some, for you are correct I made a rather sweeping statement. So, it probably isn't true that all come with their minds made up, but I suspect that vast majority of us do. And by this point I would have to admit that includes my own mind as well. As I said, I used to be interested, but now after hearing a number of such debates, I find that I can predict what the main points are going to be, and have rehashed them innumerable times with people on LI. There seems little new being brought to any of these debates, so except for the newcomer who hasn't given any thought (a relative small percent I suspect), and those who want to cheer on their own preferred viewpoint, like fans at a sporting event (the dominant groups it seems from the comment section), I don't really see much point to them anymore.

I have to agree with you for the most part on this one. I too was drawn to any debate between Islam and Christianity that I could get my hands on for awhile. Now when I watch a debate, I already know what each party is going to say and generally how I'm going to react. There is the occasional time where someone brings something new, but for the most part it's always the same thing.

Usually the only wildcard in these types of things are the people themselves doing the debating, in terms of what kind of respect they show the opposing party and how they tolerate the views and beliefs of their opponent.

 

[rpwelton]

God of course. In the Christian understanding of God he is not so limited that he cannot be incarnate in Jesus and at the same time on the throne of heaven. Is the Islamic view of God so limiting that he cannot be omnipresent?

No, I am not saying that God isn't omnipresent. What I am rejecting is the idea that God has come down to our level. You see, God can be near to us, but He cannot be one of us or among us in form.

What Christianity is doing is basically saying that God stepped down from His high status above all things to come and be amongst His creation. In Islam, this is unacceptable. God of course has spoken to some of His creation, but He has always maintained His Godly attributes and status while doing so.

 

[Grace Seeker]

which bible and what version do you have.

I primarily read from the New International Version. But the point of view I expressed is not dependent on any particular translation. It is found in every edition of the Bible that you would read, be it published by a protestant or Catholic publishing housing; be it English, French, Spanish, Chinese, Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, or Arabic.

 

[Grace Seeker]

No, I am not saying that God isn't omnipresent. What I am rejecting is the idea that God has come down to our level. You see, God can be near to us, but He cannot be one of us or among us in form.

What Christianity is doing is basically saying that God stepped down from His high status above all things to come and be amongst His creation.

Yep. You got it.
(Though we would not say that he had to abandon heaven to be on earth, for we hold that he is able to do both simultaneously.)

In Islam, this is unacceptable. God of course has spoken to some of His creation, but He has always maintained His Godly attributes and status while doing so.

OK. Then quite simply you understand the Christian message and reject it. That is your choice to make. I respect you for saying so plainly. That "in Islaim, this is unacceptable" is one of the reasons that Islam is untenable for me. Of course, neither one of us is going to win everyone to our point of view. Sometimes the best we can do is try to respect those differences once they are defined.

 

[Zamtsa]

The Jesus in the Bible shouted "Eli, Eli lama sabachtani." Eli means my God.

Why didn't the crucified man said "Aba, Aba lama sabachtani." Aba means father.

Why did Jesus in the Bible never said that he was going to sacrifice himself to human kind with "his blood,"?

Why did 'son of God'(in inverted comas) eaten and eat food? If God had/has a son wouldn't that man not as simbolically a food and wouldn't he be a non eating being?

In the Dead Sea Scrolls even written that he did Polygyny. He was married with more than 1 wife(Polygyny).

Before being crucified, the 'Jesus' (in inverted comas) said "My Father is greater than I, my Father is greater than all..."

And the 'Jesus' (in inverted comas) said "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani (my God, My God...) not My Father, My father...
This to me picturing the habit of Kafirun.
As being said by Allahu 'Azza wa Jalla:

Az Zumaar (39):8 When some trouble toucheth man he crieth unto his Lord turning to Him in repentance: but when He bestoweth a favor upon him as from Himself (man) doth forget what he cried and prayed for before and he doth set up rivals unto Allah thus misleading others from Allah's Path. Say "Enjoy thy blasphemy for a little while: verily thou art (one) of the Companions of the Fire!"

Adh Dhuha(93):1 By the Glorious Morning Light.
2 And by the Night when it is still
3 The guardian-Lord Hath not forsaken thee Nor is He displeased.


Not "My God, My God why hast Thou forsaken me.."

Before being crucified, the 'Jesus' (in inverted comas) said "My Father is greater than I, my Father is greater than all..."

And the 'Jesus' (in inverted comas) said "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani (my God, My God...) not My Father, My father...
This to me picturing the habit of Kafirun.
As being said by Allahu 'Azza wa Jalla:

Az Zumaar (39):8 When some trouble toucheth man he crieth unto his Lord turning to Him in repentance: but when He bestoweth a favor upon him as from Himself (man) doth forget what he cried and prayed for before and he doth set up rivals unto Allah thus misleading others from Allah's Path. Say "Enjoy thy blasphemy for a little while: verily thou art (one) of the Companions of the Fire!"


Assalamu manit taba'al huda (May peace, development and safe from guile be upon who follow the guidance).

 

[Grace Seeker]

Abdul, I refer you to the Psalm which Jesus was quoting:

Psalmm 22

1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.

3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the praise of Israel.

4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.

5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.

7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:

8 "He trusts in the LORD;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him."

9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother's breast.

10 From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother's womb you have been my God.

11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.

13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.

14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.

16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.

18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.

19 But you, O LORD, be not far off;
O my Strength, come quickly to help me.

20 Deliver my life from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.

21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.

23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!

24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows.

26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!

27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,

28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.

30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.

31 They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn—
for he has done it.

The question is not why did he call out "Eli, Eli lama sabachtani," but why did he turn to quoting that Psalm at that time in his life? And though Jesus only quoted the opening line, I think the answer can be found text itself:
"For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help."




As to some of you other comments, such as those about the Dead Sea scrolls talkiing about Jesus being a polygamist, you've posted this in two other threads and I've showed how it simply isn't so. Even the sources you cite are actually saying quite the opposite. I don't think you care about truth, but just telling whatever fabricated fanciful ideas you care to tell.