"Justice Marches" in Turkey

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http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/06/ghandi-kemal-kilicdaroglu-chp-justice-march.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...acy-on-the-road-with-turkeys-justice-marchers

https://guardian.ng/news/erdogan-slams-opposition-as-justice-march-nears-istanbul/


there has been a wave of mass protests in turkey ever since the arrest of a CHP opposition lawmaker, for his time spent as a journalist when he leaked info on Turkey sending arms to Islamist rebels in Syria. He was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Kemal Kilicdaroglu, the leader of the CHP (Republican People's Party, a centre left party), has said this was the last straw in Erdogan's slide into authoritarianism, which has seen a referendum on april 16 with a narrow win on increasing erdogan's powers and a transition to a presidential system from a parliamentary system, 50,000 people jailed including 12 HDP (a kurdish right's party) lawmakers, teachers, more journalists than the rest of the world combined, professors, judges, lawyers, etc. in addition to soldiers after the failed military coup in the wake of a state of emergency imposed by erdogan since then, and 140,000 people fired from their jobs, and 110,000 detained. erdogan blames the coup on the gulen movement, and has used it as an excuse to cleanse the state of all those disloyal to him, including kurds allegedly tied to the seperatist PKK. prisons have exceeded maximum capacity, so erdogan has released thousands of people from prison, including thousands of people charged with insulting him, petty thieves, etc.

https://turkeypurge.com/
 
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Mustafa16 said:
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/06/ghandi-kemal-kilicdaroglu-chp-justice-march.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...acy-on-the-road-with-turkeys-justice-marchers

https://guardian.ng/news/erdogan-slams-opposition-as-justice-march-nears-istanbul/


there has been a wave of mass protests in turkey ever since the arrest of a CHP opposition lawmaker, for his time spent as a journalist when he leaked info on Turkey sending arms to Islamist rebels in Syria. He was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Kemal Kilicdaroglu, the leader of the CHP (Republican People's Party, a centre left party), has said this was the last straw in Erdogan's slide into authoritarianism, which has seen a referendum on april 16 with a narrow win on increasing erdogan's powers and a transition to a presidential system from a parliamentary system, 50,000 people jailed including 12 HDP (a kurdish right's party) lawmakers, teachers, more journalists than the rest of the world combined, professors, judges, lawyers, etc. in addition to soldiers after the failed military coup in the wake of a state of emergency imposed by erdogan since then, and 140,000 people fired from their jobs, and 110,000 detained. erdogan blames the coup on the gulen movement, and has used it as an excuse to cleanse the state of all those disloyal to him, including kurds allegedly tied to the seperatist PKK. prisons have exceeded maximum capacity, so erdogan has released thousands of people from prison, including thousands of people charged with insulting him, petty thieves, etc.

https://turkeypurge.com/
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Who're behind these protesters......?
 
azc said:
Who're behind these protesters......?
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Kemal Kilicdaroglu, leader of the CHP (Republican People's Party) started it. But if you're referring to who supports it, that would be: anti-government Kemalists, Gulenists, Kurds, anti-Bahceli nationalists (Bahceli being chairman of nationalist movement party), disillusioned islamists, especially those fired from their jobs to make way for nationalist pro-government kemalists (AKA "the perincek group" dogu perincek being leader of the Patriotic Party, or Vatan Partisi), pro-democracy people, etc. but anyway id rather not discuss this because i got an infraction for constantly talking about turkish politics.
 
Mustafa16 said:
Kemal Kilicdaroglu, leader of the CHP (Republican People's Party) started it. But if you're referring to who supports it, that would be: anti-government Kemalists, Gulenists, Kurds, anti-Bahceli nationalists (Bahceli being chairman of nationalist movement party), disillusioned islamists, especially those fired from their jobs to make way for nationalist pro-government kemalists (AKA "the perincek group" dogu perincek being leader of the Patriotic Party, or Vatan Partisi), pro-democracy people, etc. but anyway id rather not discuss this because i got an infraction for constantly talking about turkish politics.
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Can Europe tolerate the islamization in Turkey.?
 
azc said:
Can Europe tolerate the islamization in Turkey.?
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This is not about the Islamization of Turkey. This is not even set up by Europe. This is about authoritarianism and one man rule vs democracy.
 
Mustafa16 said:
This is not about the Islamization of Turkey. This is not even set up by Europe. This is about authoritarianism and one man rule vs democracy.
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I understand your views about your government. Crux of the matter, in my opinion, is the islamization which is disliked by a large number of people in and out of the country . These protesters, most probably, have support from anti islamization forces.

I don't think any president can tolerate protest to topple his government.
 
azc said:
I don't think any president can tolerate protest to topple his government.
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Has president the government? Well, maybe in some countries it´s the president who nominated the members of the government.
 
Re: "Justice Marches" in Turkey

For what you are talking is non sense. Thousand of people killed by Assad forces, this guy is a criminal. And regarding Turkey, what's the deal? If they want islamisation or anything else it's up to them if you are from outside it's not your deal. Erdogans Turkey for any normal muslim is better than Kemal's Turkey, when they were hugging with israel and etc.

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For what you are talking is non sense. Thousand of people killed by Assad forces, this guy is a criminal. And regarding Turkey, what's the deal? If they want islamisation or anything else it's up to them if you are from outside it's not your deal. Erdogans Turkey for any normal muslim is better than Kemal's Turkey, when they were hugging with israel and etc.
 
azc said:
I understand your views about your government. Crux of the matter, in my opinion, is the islamization which is disliked by a large number of people in and out of the country . These protesters, most probably, have support from anti islamization forces.

I don't think any president can tolerate protest to topple his government.
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that's why all it takes is an economic crisis, which is coming soon, and to make it even worse, POSSIBLY a war with KSA, Egypt, UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, and possibly US over Qatar while allied with "rafidhi" Iran, and everyone will demand the resignation of Erdogan. Either that, or a military coup. Or, by 2019, Meral Aksener could become president. I don't know if you're Turkish or not, but if you're not, what you may not understand about turkish politics is that 50-60 percent of the electorate is centre right, while 10 percent is ultra-right, and the remainder is left wing. Usually, a centre right party takes control of Turkey promising greater democratization and things work out....for a while....until everything implodes....either due to corruption of the party's original ideals or a military coup. The reason why so many people vote for AKP is NOT, I repeat, NOT because they are Islamist. Most Turkish people are not THAT religious, especially compared to other Muslim countries, and even if they were religious, they are not political Islamist (or simply, Islamist). Most people vote for AKP for business interests, because they are poor people bribed into voting for AKP, for capitalism, for nationalism, or because there is no viable opposition party. The other three parties are CHP, a party associated with the repression of religion and Kurds for decades, and a centre left party that has consistently lost elections, HDP, a Kurdish rights and nationalism party that only gains a minority of Kurdish votes, and MHP, a far right ultra nationalist (with neo fascist elements) party serving Turkish and pan turkic interests (self explanatory). But Meral Aksener has recently started forming her own political party together with such opposition nationalists expelled from MHP such as Koray Aydin and Umit Ozdag. If the public were able to hear that there is a viable alternative (possibly not given the fact that there is heavy censorship in Turkey and often the only place they can find out is the internet), they will most likely immediately jump to the alternative. It was said by political analysts that Aksener could draw not just nationalists, but also kemalists, Islamists, and the centre right. so unless there is a civil war, a military coup, or an occupation, I'm hoping Meral Aksener could win. P.S. Sinan Ogan has also announced his presidential election candidacy, thus further dividing the vote.
 
Re: "Justice Marches" in Turkey

Elcocaloca said:
For what you are talking is non sense. Thousand of people killed by Assad forces, this guy is a criminal. And regarding Turkey, what's the deal? If they want islamisation or anything else it's up to them if you are from outside it's not your deal. Erdogans Turkey for any normal muslim is better than Kemal's Turkey, when they were hugging with israel and etc.
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You haven´t heard that also Erdogan´s Turkey is hugging with isreal?

The other thing; how to know what people of some country really wants if their ruler acts as dictator?

And also; if some ruler violates the basic human rights, then it´s not only a matter of the people of that country.
 
Re: "Justice Marches" in Turkey

Elcocaloca said:
For what you are talking is non sense. Thousand of people killed by Assad forces, this guy is a criminal. And regarding Turkey, what's the deal? If they want islamisation or anything else it's up to them if you are from outside it's not your deal. Erdogans Turkey for any normal muslim is better than Kemal's Turkey, when they were hugging with israel and etc.

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For what you are talking is non sense. Thousand of people killed by Assad forces, this guy is a criminal. And regarding Turkey, what's the deal? If they want islamisation or anything else it's up to them if you are from outside it's not your deal. Erdogans Turkey for any normal muslim is better than Kemal's Turkey, when they were hugging with israel and etc.
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If you read my new post, you would see me explaining that most people don't vote for Erdogan for "Islamisation" but rather for business interests, because they are poor and accept bribes in exchange for votes, for capitalism, for nationalism, and because there is no viable opposition party. Also, the thing you need to understand is that there is no freedom of press in Turkey. All the major media is owned by Erdogan interests, and become a mouthpiece for Erdogan, repeating all of his propoganda....when people hear the same thing over and over from the media and don't hear anything opposed to it they accept it as truth....there is much more to democracy than just the ballot box, also, it is rumored Erdogan rigged the elections anyway. (he cheated and made votes disappear or fakes ones appear)
 
Re: "Justice Marches" in Turkey

Well, if you are a muslim you should more think about does your ruler violate sharia or not. Being muslim without an islamic political position (whether it is liberal or orthodox) is a joke for me. We today have an obligation to develop a modern islamic political way of thinking instead of following unislamic templates of political way of social life and calling our selves muslims, because it is kinda ignorant if you ask me.

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Well, if you are a muslim you should more think about does your ruler violate sharia or not. Being muslim without an islamic political position (whether it is liberal or orthodox) is a joke for me. We today have an obligation to develop a modern islamic political way of thinking instead of following unislamic templates of political way of social life and calling our selves muslims, because it is kinda ignorant if you ask me.

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Mustafa16 said:
If you read my new post, you would see me explaining that most people don't vote for Erdogan for "Islamisation" but rather for business interests, because they are poor and accept bribes in exchange for votes, for capitalism, for nationalism, and because there is no viable opposition party. Also, the thing you need to understand is that there is no freedom of press in Turkey. All the major media is owned by Erdogan interests, and become a mouthpiece for Erdogan, repeating all of his propoganda....when people hear the same thing over and over from the media and don't hear anything opposed to it they accept it as truth....there is much more to democracy than just the ballot box, also, it is rumored Erdogan rigged the elections anyway. (he cheated and made votes disappear or fakes ones appear)
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And Trump did in USA? And Putin in Russia? Huh? What do you want? a secular state? Common guys, Islam isnt a psychotherapy so you use it as thing that keep your soul calm, read Quran properly and you will find that you have some duties about your social and political life, or you accept one part of Quran and reject another? So I really REALLY don't understand when muslim write that islamization is something wrong, sorry I don't understand this.
 
Re: "Justice Marches" in Turkey

Elcocaloca said:
Well, if you are a muslim you should more think about does your ruler violate sharia or not. Being muslim without an islamic political position (whether it is liberal or orthodox) is a joke for me. We today have an obligation to develop a modern islamic political way of thinking instead of following unislamic templates of political way of social life and calling our selves muslims, because it is kinda ignorant if you ask me.

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Well, if you are a muslim you should more think about does your ruler violate sharia or not. Being muslim without an islamic political position (whether it is liberal or orthodox) is a joke for me. We today have an obligation to develop a modern islamic political way of thinking instead of following unislamic templates of political way of social life and calling our selves muslims, because it is kinda ignorant if you ask me.

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And Trump did in USA? And Putin in Russia? Huh? What do you want? a secular state? Common guys, Islam isnt a psychotherapy so you use it as thing that keep your soul calm, read Quran properly and you will find that you have some duties about your social and political life, or you accept one part of Quran and reject another? So I really REALLY don't understand when muslim write that islamization is something wrong, sorry I don't understand this.
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do you call this Islamic?: https://turkeypurge.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_purges_in_Turkey there is much more to Islam than just sharia. there is also governing by justice. and btw, gulen movement did not do coup attempt through fethullah gulen's orders, although some gulenists took part in coup mentioned in above websites, but they were condemned by fethullah gulen.
 
Yes there is a rise of Islam in Turkey in "appearance". But there is a fall in soul. Erdogan and AKP have just screwed the justice in Turkey
 
Re: "Justice Marches" in Turkey

Mustafa16 said:
do you call this Islamic?: https://turkeypurge.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_purges_in_Turkey there is much more to Islam than just sharia. there is also governing by justice. and btw, gulen movement did not do coup attempt through fethullah gulen's orders, although some gulenists took part in coup mentioned in above websites, but they were condemned by fethullah gulen.
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I'm not turkish, and not too much in turkish political life. But I think Gulen was the party starter. Who else had so much power. Ofcause when attempt fell he started neglecting everything, but why I didn't hear from him in that night when everything happened.

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Mustafa16 said:
do you call this Islamic?: https://turkeypurge.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_purges_in_Turkey there is much more to Islam than just sharia. there is also governing by justice. and btw, gulen movement did not do coup attempt through fethullah gulen's orders, although some gulenists took part in coup mentioned in above websites, but they were condemned by fethullah gulen.
Click to expand...

I'm not turkish, and not too much in turkish political life. But I think Gulen was the party starter. Who else had so much power. Ofcause when attempt fell he started neglecting everything, but why I didn't hear from him in that night when everything happened.
 
Re: "Justice Marches" in Turkey

Elcocaloca said:
I'm not turkish, and not too much in turkish political life. But I think Gulen was the party starter. Who else had so much power. Ofcause when attempt fell he started neglecting everything, but why I didn't hear from him in that night when everything happened.

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I'm not turkish, and not too much in turkish political life. But I think Gulen was the party starter. Who else had so much power. Ofcause when attempt fell he started neglecting everything, but why I didn't hear from him in that night when everything happened.
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who else had so much power? first off, gulen condemned the coup in the strongest terms, and never cheered it on. also, gulenism was already severely weakened in turkey following this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_corruption_scandal_in_Turkey
and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_National_Intelligence_Organisation_scandal_in_Turkey
now.......gulenists did take part in the coup, but they were not the only ones to take part. kemalists also have, as shown here: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/02/turkey-coup-attempt-trials-dazzle-the-country.html also, several soldiers who led the coup were forced under torture to confess they were gulenist....as shown here: http://theglobepost.com/2017/05/23/turkish-colonel-says-his-testimony-taken-under-torture/ also, Gulen himself said the coup may have been done by some loyal to him, but that he has disowned them. furthermore, US, German, British, NATO, and EU intelligence went into Turkey and found no conclusive evidence that Gulen carried out coup: http://theglobepost.com/2017/03/18/german-intel-chief-gulen-was-not-behind-turkey-coup/
and others. furthermore, Putin found out about the coup and warned erdogan, likely to make erdogan turn towards russia rather than NATO. Now, why would Putin know about such a coup? well, dogu perincek, a turkish politician whose henchmen have been the main benefactor of the purges, and who has allied with erdogan, warned them. how would dogu perincek know, and then work together with erdogan? and no one paid attention to his warnings, despite his warning them numerous times before the coup. also, there is further proof the coup was staged, as alleged by gulen:

http://www.aei.org/publication/turkish-officers-speak-erdogan-may-have-staged-coup/
https://www.aldrimer.no/nato-insiders-suspect-staged-turkey-coup/
http://www.aei.org/publication/did-erdogan-stage-the-coup/
http://www.aei.org/publication/more-evidence-erdogan-behind-coup/

furthermore, erdogan had every reason to stage a coup, but more on that later, first let's talk about how. hakan fidan, an intelligence officer warned about the coup, and hulusi akar, the chief of staff were at a WEDDING during the coup. that suggests it was the work of turkish intelligence and the chain of command. second, erdogan likely staged the coup due to declining support for his party, in order to consolidate his party.

EDIT: the coup was designed to fail. why would you do a coup at 9 o clock at night during rush hour traffic, and shut down the bosphourous bridge? and fire at angry crowds, and announce on ONE lesser known state owned tv station there is a coup? all other coups took place at night to ensure no loss of civilian life (coups in turkey in 1960, 1971, 1980, and 1997).
 
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Mustafa16 said:
that's why all it takes is an economic crisis, which is coming soon, and to make it even worse, POSSIBLY a war with KSA, Egypt, UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, and possibly US over Qatar while allied with "rafidhi" Iran, and everyone will demand the resignation of Erdogan. Either that, or a military coup. Or, by 2019, Meral Aksener could become president. I don't know if you're Turkish or not, but if you're not, what you may not understand about turkish politics is that 50-60 percent of the electorate is centre right, while 10 percent is ultra-right, and the remainder is left wing. Usually, a centre right party takes control of Turkey promising greater democratization and things work out....for a while....until everything implodes....either due to corruption of the party's original ideals or a military coup. The reason why so many people vote for AKP is NOT, I repeat, NOT because they are Islamist. Most Turkish people are not THAT religious, especially compared to other Muslim countries, and even if they were religious, they are not political Islamist (or simply, Islamist). Most people vote for AKP for business interests, because they are poor people bribed into voting for AKP, for capitalism, for nationalism, or because there is no viable opposition party. The other three parties are CHP, a party associated with the repression of religion and Kurds for decades, and a centre left party that has consistently lost elections, HDP, a Kurdish rights and nationalism party that only gains a minority of Kurdish votes, and MHP, a far right ultra nationalist (with neo fascist elements) party serving Turkish and pan turkic interests (self explanatory). But Meral Aksener has recently started forming her own political party together with such opposition nationalists expelled from MHP such as Koray Aydin and Umit Ozdag. If the public were able to hear that there is a viable alternative (possibly not given the fact that there is heavy censorship in Turkey and often the only place they can find out is the internet), they will most likely immediately jump to the alternative. It was said by political analysts that Aksener could draw not just nationalists, but also kemalists, Islamists, and the centre right. so unless there is a civil war, a military coup, or an occupation, I'm hoping Meral Aksener could win. P.S. Sinan Ogan has also announced his presidential election candidacy, thus further dividing the vote.
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No, I'm not from Turkey. You being a Turkish know the ground realities better.

Perhpas "game of power" is being played in your country from both sides.
 

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