Kafir Boy needs Divine Intervention

[vorx]

Hello everyone,

I came across an other crazy yet boredom filling idea which to join this forum. I am not sure how to introduce myself in the internet but i ll say the basics. I am 20 and i am a guy. I speak Arabic, French and English while i am Moroccan inheriting the title "Muslim".

I grew up mostly in Morocco and I've been living in the United States for six years but i can't judge which years in which country were more fulfilling. I mean and to be honest, I've experienced a lot of things in the United States which I was to look at from different point of view back home. Vice-versa in here. I grew up in very liberal family when it comes to religion since my Dad and Mom aren't the best buddies of Muhammad. We fast but we don't pray, while we like to give donations to the poor and I was a part of that in numerous events. I even fed black homeless people near Harvard University and cleaned their bathrooms for free. People say eww to ******s in this country lol.

Nevertheless, I am joining this site to gather every Muslim sectionalists (belonging to different sects of Islam) and even "infidels (I love that word so much)" to look at something else. I can say that believing in God without a meticulous hesitation of not being a part of an Islamic sect such as Sunnis and Shias or God Alone is totally okay. I believe that man is created with his own logic, therefore our common sense isn't our sole governing rule neither are the Qur'an or ahadiths or whatever is "considered holy and divine". To justify myself, I point to the overcrowded prisons and murderers that do not think murder is an action to be punishable for. Some Muslims might argue me wrong to be too harsh that my judgement contradicts the "fact (their fact)" that killing infidels is permitted by Allah, just ask Mr. Osama Bin Laden he is Muslim too.

I say I like reading some of the Qur'an. It is strong and often tells how cruel is God while sometimes, I feel good learning that God is also kind. It’s often then seldom that God seems to be punishing in the Qur'an to me, and that makes me wonder and question. I have my doubts about Islam and the Qur'an. One thing I learned when it comes to a conflict scenario for example, every witness has a different story and all of them have the best story. Each story is as best as the other. So, some 1400 years have passed since Islam was the official way to heaven by Muslims, (Muslims are witnesses of a scenario and their story is the best) I say chances are that people have had their own tales about the religion with the passing time. I just can't rely on stories so old and expect them to be hardcore solid truth. In World War 2, MILLIONS lost their lives in 6 years period while people still believe in a 1400 years old tale? That’s a lot of time, and with a big quantity of time, a lot of things happen!

I must also add that my doubt of the Qur'an isn’t in the whole book but probably to things I don’t understand and I don’t want to accept to be the words of God. It might be the same old Qur'an that Muhammad received while it might be modified...who knows? The freaking Aliens or whatever… Islam might be a perfect idea to God but people aren't perfect therefore there isn’t connectivity between the people and the idea. Same thing for ahadeeths etc...

Long story short, I think that my perspective is the ultimate. My points are not of an atheist, while I strongly believe in the existence of God. There might be some other life form a.k.a Angels, and that we will die then go to hell or heaven, and that there were God books before me sent to special people a.k.a Propthets. That totally could’ve happen and I don’t deny that. I just can’t rely on my judgement on people’s sources. My point of view is what counts and it is supreme and it will guarantee me Heaven or Hell I just have to use my best judgments. I wish to do what I wish to do based on my judgements poor or good. I don't know how life is going to be when I die, I never saw God and I am too young to understand religion. I always give myself the opportunity to be flexible in thoughts and before I can be a true Muslim I must be a true kaafir. Same thing, before you can be a cop you got to be a mobster.

thanks you.

 

[vorx]

Hello everyone,
People say eww to ******s in this country lol.

the hidden word was (i)g . g (e)(r_s). the black race.. everyone is so afraid to say the n-word lol.. talk about stereotype and insecurities..

 

[Malaikah]

That is because the 'n-word' is offensive. Amazing you haven't picked that up yet.

 

[vorx]

That is because the 'n-word' is offensive. Amazing you haven't picked that up yet.

I like saying the n-word because its so forbiden. same thing as the f word... they are so so so forbiden.

 

[aamirsaab]

The whole point of religion is for you to make your own decision - there are presently 8 or so main ones so you cannot complain really as far as choice is concerned.

Realistically noone should be forcing anyone to join a religion, it should be up to the individual to choose (in Islam we have no compulsion in our religion...unfortunately not every muslim pays attention to this rule but that's a different story for a different thread)

Anywho, keep an open mind when learning about religions - that way you're gauranteed to find an answer.

 

[north_malaysian]

The problem is ... should you be known as a "Disbeliever" or just a "Non-Practising Muslim"?

Well... I'm not an expert on this...

P/s: I've known so many people who observe Ramadhan and never perform salah in Malaysia.. and I dont call them Kafirs.

 

[Samira_01]

Asalamu 3leykum

welcome to the LI forum .. hope you enjoy ur stay Inshallah

wa3leykum salaam

 

[Beblessed]

walaikum salaam warahmatullahi wabaraktuh
Welcome have a nice stay!
I hope this forum is beneficial and will benefit you in the hereafter, Ameen

 

[Al_Imaan]

:welcome: to the forum. Have a beneficial stay.

 

[جوري]

forbidden or just in bad taste?
we are all capable of vulgarity, curse words, animal behavior and every immature defense mechanism in the book! those who don't use them ( and so by choice), isn't because they are incapable of cursing, but because they exercise restrain not wishing to succumb to lowliness, and hurtful vocabulary... I don't think you understand Islam at all.... forgive me but it isn't an asset to have you as a Muslim, if such is what you were at some point. I don't know if you will find what you seek here... but I didn't find what I am looking for in a new member let alone a human being!...

good day to you!

 

[NoName55]

Perhaps the new owner will kickout the wannabe nazis soon as they show their ugly heads, instead of making them feel important by letting them linger on for months, wasting bandwidth and desecrating all that is sacred

wa salaam alaikum to believers and others who search for truth

 

[vorx]

Perhaps the new owner will kickout the wannabe nazis soon as they show their ugly heads, instead of making them feel important by letting them linger on for months, wasting bandwidth and desecrating all that is sacred

wa salaam alaikum to believers and others who search for truth

i am not even white and i am not bashing against any race. My point was that i helped black people which is something that not everyone does in this country. They don't like them here. maybe i understand islam differently as it seems everyone understands it their own way. That's why there are too many islamic sects and to name few, Sunnis, Shias, Suffis, Wahabees, Progressive Muslims... etc

 

[vorx]

forgive me but it isn't an asset to have you as a Muslim, if such is what you were at some point. I don't know if you will find what you seek here... but I didn't find what I am looking for in a new member let alone a human being!...

There are always things u can learn from people but yeah.. i didn't write all my special skills( i have nonelol) or anything beyond my personal interests. i didnt expect anyone to be amazed. I gave a short to thoughts i have about Islam and the way that seems perfect for me to follow.

 

[جوري]

There are always things u can learn from people but yeah.. i didn't write all my special skills( i have nonelol) or anything beyond my personal interests. i didnt expect anyone to be amazed. I gave a short to thoughts i have about Islam and the way that seems perfect for me to follow.

This isn't about expectations so let me get that out of the way, you can change your screen name tomorrow as many times as you can afford to do so, and re-register and come back as a Zoroasterian for all we care, it was advise from the heart to a fellow human being!...

Now--90% of Muslims are sunnis, a mazhab is hardly a sect, those who are into sectarianism are innovators and that is forbidden in Islam, I can't think of anything more clearly forbidden... can we stop people from innovating? NO!--we can't really call them Muslims, but we can't call them non-Muslims.

I don't believe it is that difficult to follow the right path! Prophet Mohammed PBUH stated "khatibo innas 3la 3oqolihim" some Arab man came to him asked what he should do to become a Muslim he told him about the 5 pillars, because the man was simple and prophet Mohammed PBUH knew that it would be no use going over his head, if G-D addresses the psychology of man in the book, and the prophet implements those teachings, then I am not sure where there is a conundrum, if you want to learn more, there is more, if this is as an honest effort and as far as you can go, then he who created you surely knows of your inner self..
prophet Mohammed PBUH also stated--"inna adeen wasi3 fa'awghil feeh berifq, ina almonbbata la ardaan qata3a wla dhran abqa" if you speak Arabic, then I think it is very self explanatory. He PBUH assimilated religion to one trying to cross a vast desert, he stated he who is harsh, or cruel, will not be able to cross it, nor will he be able to keep his mode of transport...

You don't need an interpreter to be a Muslim, you need a good heart, strong will, and thinking head on your shoulders. When you find it to be times of tribulations then you hang on steadfast to the kitab and sunnah... it isn't that difficult for no matter your level of understanding Islam covers you on all grounds... and on a very basic fundamental ground, adorning oneself with kind manners, seems to me very basic... does it public opinion really matter? if you were in the midst of a tribe of cannibals would you join them eating the flesh of a human being, simply because it is popular?

I didn't mean to scold you. I just find it rather cruel, not forbidden to call people by things that aren't desirable to them. whether or not you are one of them... These aren't the traits of a Muslim... here is one last hadith on the matter
Once the Prophet was seated at some place in Madinah, along with his Companions. During this time a funeral procession passed by. On seeing this, the Prophet stood up. One of his companions remarked that the funeral was that of a Jew. The Prophet replied, “Was he not a human being?” (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim, Sunan An-Nasâ'î)

with that said I hope the forum does offer you some explanations in areas that you find shady.. I find it a shame that British or American Muslims treat religion with more respect than some of us Arabs who speak the language of the Noble Quran...
look at this treasure... it is in your hands all along, rediscover it, rather than being "cool" and reveling in what is "forbidden" adorn yourself with the Noble manners of a Muslim.
waslaam Alykoum wr wb

 

[جوري]

As a last note... I think if you did some mild research you'll discover this whole so-called sectarianism is but an over inflated concept propagated by the west, a part of their psychological warfare, to curb the appeal of Islam which is the fastest growing religion.. that aside, prophet Mohammed has already stated that there would be 73 sects in Islam as happened in previous religion but to follow what is decreed and as I stated prior 90% of Muslims are indeed sunnis... that besides, I want to take care of one of the points you brought up about a "******" there is no such thing, and rather than me delving into what that means, I'll let Dr. Idris who is a professor of philosophy explain it best.

p.s the ****** are generally censored by forum however they denote w a h a b b i s m-- as you have brought up in your points

Response to The Washington Post

This is a letter that Dr. Idris sent to The Washington Post in response to the Article "Spreading Saudi Fundamentalism," where Dr. Idris' name was mentioned.. The letter was delivered to the Post by hand and via e-mail. The Washington Post did not publish his response.

Susan Schmidt’s report, (Spreading Saudi Fundamentalism), Thursday, October 4, 2003, is an example of writings about Islam that Muslims find very disturbing. They wonder what good does it serve the national interest of the United States to distort the facts about Muslim individuals, organizations, beliefs and positions, to see organizational links where none in fact exist, and to present all their honest activities as a threat to America?

The writer calls me an Imam, which I am not; I am a professor of philosophy. She groups me with what she calls salafi and ****** groups (her definition of which is ridiculous) while I consider myself to be an independent scholar who is not a member of any group or party or a blind follower of any leader; my only ultimate leader is Prophet Muhammad. I am certainly not a ******, and do not know of any scholar even in Saudi Arabia who calls himself a ******. There is no sect in Islam called ******sm. I did read some of Ibn Abdel Wahab’s works and I did write about him, but I never invited people to follow him, or any particular scholar or leader. I have great respect for him as one of our outstanding scholars, and the leader of a major revivalist movement. But still we do not accept every thing he says.

One might wonder why have the teachings of this man suddenly, and after more than two hundred years, become a threat to America? The answer is that what is now perceived by some to be a danger is not what is called ******sm. The epithet ‘******’ is now being exploited by many in America to describe any Muslim who takes his religion seriously. If you are a serious adherent to Islam, you are ******; if you are ****** you must be a terrorist; and if you are a terrorist you are a legitimate target. The message to practicing Muslims seems to be that if you are not like us you will not be tolerated by us. This is in essence is what the Senator, whom the reporter quotes, is saying. ******sm is a danger, we are told because it is “antithetical to the values of tolerance, individualism and freedom as we conceive these things.” Must everyone in the world conceive these things the way the Senator and his likes conceive them? If so then the problem is not confined to what is called ******sm. It is bound to include other Muslims, as well as all people who belong to other cultures; it is in fact bound to include many in the West since there is no consensus among them on the way these things are to be conceived. If your tolerance applies only to those who share your values and , further, conceive them the way you do, you will be making mockery of tolerance, which is by definition readiness to coexist peacefully with those who do not share your values. Thus in Islam a distinction is made between beliefs and believers. As far as beliefs are concerned there is absolutely no compromise: any belief that contradicts Islam is false, and must be criticized. But those who adhere to such false beliefs are to be tolerated, nicely treated and invited to the truth in the best of ways. It is because of this that Jews and Christians found their safest haven in the Muslim world long before the West started to talk about human rights and freedom of religion. “Jews familiar with history might note that from Spain to Baghdad, it was the Islamic world that offered the Jews of the Middle Ages a fair degree of toleration -- not the Christian West’, so tells us Richard Cohen in an article in the Post.; non-Muslims continue to live peacefully among Muslims. Islamic teachings, corroborated by our historical experience, teach us that the best atmosphere for the spread of Islam is the peaceful atmosphere. It is because of this that people like myself have been staunch advocates of peaceful coexistence and peaceful ways of inviting others to Islam long before September/11. And that is why we have been condemning acts of violence as ways of furthering the cause of Islam; we believe that they do just the opposite. But this has been of no avail to us; if you are an advocate of Islam, even by merely distributing copies of the Qur’an, you are bound to be viewed with suspicion. The same does not apply to organizations that put a copy of the Bible in every room of almost any hotel, not only in America, but in many other parts of the world.

We are determined however to stay this course. We know that being firm in our adherence to Islam has been one of the main reasons for its fast spreading.

Why is Islam expanding so spectacularly? … … … To any Christian familiar with the Bible, the answer is obvious: because God keeps His promises and blesses those who obey His Laws and fear Him, and punishes those who do not. … … Compare the amounts of abortion adultery, fornication and sodomy among Muslims and among Christians. Then compare the amounts of prayer. [Ecumenical Jihad, 1994, p.38]

These are the words of a Catholic professor of philosophy, Peter Kreeft. Could he perhaps be a Catholic ******?

Dr. Jaafar Idris

Washington Post article: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Spreading+Saudi+Fundamentalism

لعربي: ـ المقالات مقالات جريدة الميثاق . معالم لنهضتنا . الكتب والبحوث . الندوات والمحاضرات العامة . اللقاءات الصحفية . تعريف بالشيخ

 

[vorx]

This isn't about expectations so let me get for all we care, it was advise from the heart to a fellow human being!...

a mazhab is hardly a sect, those who are into sectarianism are innovators and that is forbidden in Islam, I can't think of anything more clearly forbidden... can we stop people from innovating? NO!--we can't really call them Muslims, but we can't call them non-Muslims.


if you were in the midst of a tribe of cannibals would you join them eating the flesh of a human being, simply because it is popular?

with that said I hope the forum does offer you some explanations in areas that you find shady.. I find it a shame that British or American Muslims treat religion with more respect than some of us Arabs who speak the language of the Noble Quran...
look at this treasure... it is in your hands all along, rediscover it, rather than being "cool" and reveling in what is "forbidden" adorn yourself with the Noble manners of a Muslim.
waslaam Alykoum wr wb

Salam,

First of all i would like to thank you for the kind orientations you are offering. It's why i signed up for and i always welcome advices from anybody.

There are some key points which i fail to merge in with you for instance, the diversity in Islamic "Mazhabs" as you called it. A mazhab to my understand is a way to interpret issues and their ruling in Islam. Some well famous ones are Sunnis and Shias. One party follows Muhammad's rulings the other favor the 12 imams and Imam Ali as their religious leader. That is exactly why I call it a sect since it is a party of people falling from the same root but divided in thoughts as the idea of Islam gets complex. How is it that its the west manipulation? Muawiah (i can't spell his name correctly) Killed Imam Ali then a sect was created right after his death; few years after the death of Muhammed the Prophet. Its all political whether the west is involved with its interests or our own people against each on other for their own gain...

To be honest i am lucky that i speek three languages but it doesn't mean that every Arab speaker must be dedicated to the religion. I have different values i didn't necessarily picked from an Arab/ Islamic country and that's just a part of who am I. I can't be blamed that i am "quitting" my religion before i really understand what is it all about. You can't put someone in trial for something they don't know why it made them in trouble. Islam is pretty vast and i can't understand it in one night, i can't be all dedicated but human respect and relations/ traditions existed way before Muhammed. So truth of the matter don't expect me to be among one of those 73 sects who will go to hell because i am not so dedicated like yourself.

Chances are i will eat human flesh if i belong to a canibalistic tribe. It would seem all normal since everybody is doing it. Just like it is so normal for us to sacrifice the sheep in the Ishmail miracle thing with God. If i do that in my backyard in the United States, my neighbors would have a heart attack watching the poor sheep being slaughters:raging: . They will find it immoral and illogical just like you would find it immoral and illogical to eat human flesh... its simple and please don't tell me that sheep meat tastes better then human flesh. Chances are nobody in this whole website ate human flesh so we can't judge hehe =)

- Peace

 

[vorx]

Now--90% of Muslims are sunnis, a mazhab is hardly a sect, those who are into sectarianism are innovators and that is forbidden in Islam, I can't think of anything more clearly forbidden... can we stop people from innovating? NO!--we can't really call them Muslims, but we can't call them non-Muslims.

I find it a shame that British or American Muslims treat religion with more respect than some of us Arabs who speak the language of the Noble Quran...
look at this treasure... it is in your hands all along, rediscover it, rather than being "cool" and reveling in what is "forbidden" adorn yourself with the Noble manners of a Muslim.
waslaam Alykoum wr wb

Oh and i wanted to add 2 more things please. Iagree with the first quote. You can't judge really in that case. But who cares...

For the second quote there is this proverb i just remembered. The Grass is always greener in the other side. So being said, British and American Muslim converts had their own life and Islam is something exotic to them. We have it in Morocco and some just don't care. Some see it as treasure while some see it as less important. Personally i don't know if Islam is exotic or a third party necessity to fulfill my life. I wish to know with time as i am older though since i promise myself to make that decision before i die hehe.

Please don't tell me that being always satisfied with what God gave you makes you sleep at night cozy ALL THE TIME. Greed is in every human aspect and God allows such thing even if you are a freaking Angel. Look at Satan haha....

I can go on really i am enjoying arguments such this... But thanks for the advices i really appreciate it.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I like saying the n-word because its so forbiden. same thing as the f word... they are so so so forbiden.

you need to stop following your desires and learn to do wats right.

seriously, how many people have you hurt the last month>? :X

 

[جوري]

These are all interesting points, and I certainly hope that the board will offer you answers to the most pressing queries. Would love to dedicate more time into my replies, but unfortunately, I am pressed for it.
so I am going to address in point style
1- Again 90% of Muslims are sunna, 73 sects doesn't mean, that all of them are present at the same time, some arise, some die down, certainly the nutty A H M M A D I E S, were an invention of British colonialism of India where they chose some rich brat and made him the so-called "reincarnate" of Prophet Mohammed, Jesus, and took the Quotes out of the Quran they didn't like, and voila here is a new religion, this was as recent at 200 yrs ago, and of course now they are all screaming human rights because they feel oh so-persecuted by the rest of the Muslims, who deem them heretics, which they are, and we all know who has interest in that. That is what I meant by foreign interest in our division.... very clearly in the Quran it states, he who desireth a path other than sunnat illah warasoloh, has strayed. The Quran is preserved, unlike the previous, scriptures so it is very hard to stray unless you are intentionally deviant.

In fact I have just had this conversation a few weeks ago with a Lebanese Maronite who is working on a re-interpretation of biblical text. If the original were in tact they wouldn't need all the humbug. But that is an expansive topic and like I said, I really can't delve into something that will take more of my time, than I am willing to dedicate.
2- Shiites were started more with the help of Abdullah ibn Sabb'a than mu3awayas attempts, I think a little history can take care of your most pressing queries, "He"-- Abdullah ibn sabb'a attempted to do for Islam, what "St." Paul did for Christianity.. however, in the Quran it states in 16.43

إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَـزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ ​

So there you have it, again it is a solo effort even if your community is corrupt. And what I meant prior was, if you were the only non-cannibal in a tribe of cannibals would you join in, just because it was the norm? not a custom, that you were regularly practicing.... a religion in order to convince you, has to be satisfactory to you both heart and mind, and I would recommend you this very short read by Dr. Gary Miller, who was a former priest. I think he is one of the examples I meant by Non-Arabic, former Muslims, who seem to value Islam more than we do his book can be found Here!
3- you are right, Islam is very much like medicine or pharmacy or any career path that requires you to have continuing education to maintain you license, it is a life time effort, not an over night change. I never suggested you are Muslim over night. It is a jihad with self and a struggle.

4- I am not sure what you mean exactly by your neighbors finding some practices immoral, I think in a society that boasts freedom, the question of morals has become a non-constant. What defines morality? This topic has been discussed here in some 33 page thread, and you are welcome to read it and participate in it.
5- Am I satisfied with what G-D gave me? I try to be, I believe that all that is good is from G-D, all that is bad it from within ourselves. It is human to not be thankful when things are honke dory, but the minute it all goes down hill, then it is "Oh- G-D why are you doing this to me"?
Certainly if you count the blessings that you have, you wouldn't be able to count them... you know the things people take for granted... you know things like your glycolysis , Krebs cycle your electron transport chain, your Cori cycle, your urea cycle, your Gluconeogenesis, your freedom from Lysosomal storage disease, your rods, your cones, your frontal lobes, your cranial nerves, your hippocampus, if you knew how much could go wrong in one tiny cell, you'd appreciate how much goes right, every day! etc etc etc etc.. do you will your body to do any of those things for you? did your parents? your parents only donated two cells. You'd pay $60,000 for a new heart from a donor should yours mal-function, that minus doctor fees, hospital fees, rehabilitation time etc how many times are you grateful that yours works on its own volition? so beautifully engineered that it wouldn't succumb to tetany if the rest of your body did.. would keep on beating even if your SA node gave up, your AV node takes over, when your Av node gives up, there you have your purkinje fibers... contemplate those things sometimes and stroll down impoverished provinces, it will cut down on the "greed" a little...
Lastly and in closure, NO, I am not perfect, far from it, it is a struggle for me as much as the next guy, I just find it a shame really, that a Muslim would have all this and choose to avert his eyes. Even to contemplate nature with some gratitude in your heart is a form of worship...
Good luck to you

 

[vorx]

I am quoting everything that you said to save space lol.

Thanks for the brief history about the Shias, the Indian puppet and also the ex-priest.

If you don't wish to add anything else then that's okay. I appreciate your time and effort to "jihad" with me haha.

You just gotta loose the idea of me being a shame to you or the Ummah. I am Arab and i am not thaaaaat Muslim... big deal brother. The grass is always greener in other side.

Anyway Peace