[Talha777]

Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

After madrassah students of Jamia Hafsa took the law into their own hands and closed down a brothel in Islamabad (imagine open prostitution in the "City of Islam"), there has been ongoing controversy between the government and the administration of Lal Masjid. General Musharraf, the dictator of Pakistan, went on record saying, “These people should shun narrow-mindedness and should open their minds for new ideas.” This is funny because Musharraf is the most narrow minded person on the planet. Pakistan claims to be an "Islamic Republic", yet the capital city, Islamabad ("City of Islam") is like Las Vegas, brothels and immoral corruption abound like any European city. Now these noble students want to restore the dignity of Pakistan by forcing people to stop sinning and the hypocritical government and media are in an uproar!

 

[siFilam]

:salamext:

Alhamdulilah, we need more students like the student of Jamia Hafsa.

wasalam
-SI-

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Yes, Alhumdulillah. May Allah help them in their efforts, InshaAllah, Ameen.

 

[FBI]

City of Islam, when did Islamabad get that title and who named it that?

 

[snakelegs]

Cleric sets up Islamic court in Pakistan By STEPHEN GRAHAM, Associated Press Writer
Fri Apr 6, 1:44 PM ET

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - In a bold challenge to the government, a firebrand cleric said Friday he had formed an Islamic court to enforce a Taliban-style vice campaign in the Pakistani capital, threatening suicide attacks if authorities try to stop him.

Thousands of followers of Maulana Abdul Aziz underlined their defiance by chanting "Our way is jihad!" and setting fire to hundreds of mainly Western DVDs and video cassettes outside Islamabad's Red Mosque.

for the rest of the story:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070406/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_radical_mosque

what % of the population of pakistan do you think would like living under taliban rule?

 

[siFilam]

Cleric sets up Islamic court in Pakistan By STEPHEN GRAHAM, Associated Press Writer
Fri Apr 6, 1:44 PM ET

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - In a bold challenge to the government, a firebrand cleric said Friday he had formed an Islamic court to enforce a Taliban-style vice campaign in the Pakistani capital, threatening suicide attacks if authorities try to stop him.

Thousands of followers of Maulana Abdul Aziz underlined their defiance by chanting "Our way is jihad!" and setting fire to hundreds of mainly Western DVDs and video cassettes outside Islamabad's Red Mosque.

for the rest of the story:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070406/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_radical_mosque

what % of the population of pakistan do you think would like living under taliban rule?

sadly not many, but Allah knows best. and this problem also exists in other so called Islamic country. many are already protesting against it.

Anti-madrassa protest in Pakistan
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6530935.stm

-SI-

 

[snakelegs]

what do you think of the idea of suicide attacks if the gov't tries to stop them from setting up a taliban type of "vice control" - what does this have to do with islam?
killing people in order to "protect" them???

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Well I wouldnt agree with the idea of suicide attacks. Sometimes I wonder how legit some of these news are. The term "suicide" is so in, I wouldn't be suprised if it was exaggerated. Why is it that everytime you hear about Muslims going against Western ideologies that contradict Islam, you hear/see the words "suicide," "terrorist," "Taliban," etc. Sometimes I don't buy it.

Allahu Alam (Allah Knows Best).

 

[siFilam]

what do you think of the idea of suicide attacks if the gov't tries to stop them from setting up a taliban type of "vice control" - what does this have to do with islam?
killing people in order to "protect" them???

Suicide attacks r haram (not permissible) in Islam. and the clerics shouldn't resort to such tactics. my point was that even Muslims are resisting their own religion.

read this http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=8e2a326cbbd5f816057849f5f68068df

too many people in the west say that the Muslim scholars are silent and they don't speak out against terrorism and un-Islamic behavior of the ignorants. problem is that they are too blind and narrow minded to look beyond their own media.
-SI-

 

[NoName55]

Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

After madrassah students of Jamia Hafsa took the law into their own hands and c................

bah humbug

 

[snakelegs]

there is no way of knowing what % of pakistanis would like to live under taliban-style rule... do you have any guesses?
if the majority would not like to live this kind of life, should it be forced on them by the minority that do - would this be seen as ok?
as for suicide attacks - i agree, you never really know the truth about what you read in the media, however, no one can deny that this mindset exists and that there are indeed people who are willing to do this to get their aim.
as far as i know suicide attacks are strictly foribidden by the vast majority of islamic scholars, so it seems to me that it would be most unislamic to use this method in order to bring about a shariah state.
if suicide attacks are not used, would it still be considered acceptable to kill people in order to bring about shariah rule in pakistan? (i guess this would be the muslim equivalent of the u.s. infamous "collateral damage"....

 

[NoName55]

Here is yet more evidence - as if we needed more evidence - of a society at war with itself.The hostage-taking by women students from Jamia Hafsa in Islamabad of the residents of a house that they allege is a brothel is not just another act of vigilantism and a breakdown of governance; it is also a manifestation of a nation divided against itself.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

i think ill stay neutral now, cuz those women publically humiliated one of the prostitutes, even tho they r dirty. so ignore my posts, thanx :X

 

[Talha777]

About the threatening of suicide bombing, i think this has not been verified and is just another example of media exaggeration. Lal Masjid is considered as Salafi and follow closely fatawa of Salafi ulama of Saudi Arabia, which strictly forbid all forms of suicide, including suicide bombing. Furthermore, there was a rumor circulating in the media that these same students would stone some prostitute to death, but later it was clarified that they were only going to stone some of the immoral cds and other memorbilia, not any human being. So we should have a healthy dose of skepticism about these media reports.

there is no way of knowing what % of pakistanis would like to live under taliban-style rule... do you have any guesses?
if the majority would not like to live this kind of life, should it be forced on them by the minority that do - would this be seen as ok?
as for suicide attacks - i agree, you never really know the truth about what you read in the media, however, no one can deny that this mindset exists and that there are indeed people who are willing to do this to get their aim.
as far as i know suicide attacks are strictly foribidden by the vast majority of islamic scholars, so it seems to me that it would be most unislamic to use this method in order to bring about a shariah state.
if suicide attacks are not used, would it still be considered acceptable to kill people in order to bring about shariah rule in pakistan? (i guess this would be the muslim equivalent of the u.s. infamous "collateral damage"....

If the majority dont want to live under Islamic government (Despite being Muslims) than yes it should be forced upon them. Islam propogates that people should force others to stop sinning. Implementing shariat is not subject to a democratic referendum, it is a fundamental religious obligation. As for the percentage of Muslims in Pakistan who favor Islamic government, I would estimate that the amount of support for the MMA and other Islamic parties would translate into roughly one-quarter of Pakistanis wanting Islamic government.

 

[snakelegs]

i agree - you cannot take everything you read in the media at face value.
i'm confused - does this group have the backing of the MMA?
does it have any "official" connection with the taleban?
as for suicide bombings, which i think the majority of islamic scholars oppose -according to member mahdisoldier (a pashtun):
"3) The Taliban have adopted the tactic of Suicide Bombings, due to a Fatwa being Issued by an Islamic Scholar as well as them seeing the efficiency of Suicide Bombings in Iraq."

 

[mahdisoldier19]

i agree - you cannot take everything you read in the media at face value.
i'm confused - does this group have the backing of the MMA?
does it have any "official" connection with the taleban?
as for suicide bombings, which i think the majority of islamic scholars oppose -according to member mahdisoldier (a pashtun):
"3) The Taliban have adopted the tactic of Suicide Bombings, due to a Fatwa being Issued by an Islamic Scholar as well as them seeing the efficiency of Suicide Bombings in Iraq."

I got brought up!

Islamic perspective

Suicide Bombing, consensus amongst some of the Scholars is that it is completely forbidden. However, other Scholars justify this act, by stating Suicide attacks on foreign troops is allowed considering the amount of damage and the human being giving his/her life for the sake of Allah. The human being does not commit suicide by depression or other worldly troubles, but by Pleasing Allah swt by attacking the enemy and giving them a dreadful memory and damage.

For instance, there were battles in the past where certain Muslims would go fight an entire army by himself, knowing that he would be killed. That human being realized that if i do in fact die, i will bring at least one with me.

So do we say that those Muslims who went out with a sword against vast armies just to kill one soldier, then eventually being killed will go to hellfire?

Secular Perspective

A terrorist use commonly for efficiency in guerrilla combat, namely iraq and afghanistan. However over 95 Percent of todays Suicide Attacks are used in the Tamil Region by Tamil groups.

However, Snake, the vast majority of Scholars have not condemned Suicide Attacks, only a few.

My Perspective

I have no clue what is going in the World these days.

 

[snakelegs]

I got brought up!

see? you're famous!

However, Snake, the vast majority of Scholars have not condemned Suicide Attacks, only a few.

i didn't know this - i thought was majority.

My Perspective

I have no clue what is going in the World these days.

well, i don't either! everytime i think i do - whoooosh! - i learn that i don't!

 

[mahdisoldier19]

Yes indeed be careful with the Scholars, The ones on T.V. are not the only ones . It is funny how i meet some of the "Salaf" who say if you do not study in Saudi Arabia how can you be a Scholar? Which makes me laugh since some of the greatest hadith collectors and Scholars were not from Arabia!

 

[Musalmaan]

‘Govt engineering Jamia Hafsa crisis’

PESHAWAR: NWFP clerics suspect that the government is “allowing the growing trend of Talibanisation to continue unchecked in Islamabad in a conspiracy to label all madrassas militant training camps”.

The province’s clerics on Saturday refused to support Lal Masjid administrator and Jamia Hafsa principal Maulana Abdul Aziz, and called Lal Masjid’s efforts to “enforce Shariah” an “unwise act that will mar the image of all madrassa students in the country and abroad”. “It may be the government and law-enforcement agencies’ plan to show the world what Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa are training their students to do,” they said, adding that the government earlier bombed a Bajaur madrassa for similar reasons. “I have met Maulana Aziz twice since last week and advised him not to take the law into his hands,” Sheikhul Hadith Maulana Mohammad Hassan Jan, an administrator at Jamia Imdadul Uloom Islamia in Peshawar, told Daily Times.

“A madrassa means a place of Islamic education, and its students should not take up sticks and challenge the government’s writ. Stopping people from unlawful activities is the government’s job,” said Hassan Jan, adding that the Lal Masjid administrator should wage a jihad against un-Islamic activities through Islamic teachings, not through sticks and threats of suicide bombings. “Maulana Abdul Aziz took this step without consulting ulema and he will be responsible if something happens to madrassas and their students,” said Hassan Jan.

He also condemned the government for not implementing recommendations of the Council of Islamic Ideology (CII). “Had the government implemented the CII’s recommendations, the situation would not have been so,” he said.

Mufti Qamar of the Sarhad Darul Uloom said the Jamia Hafsa principal was playing with thousands of madrassa students’ lives. “Maulana Aziz will be responsible if the government takes action against madrassa students who are at the forefront of this situation,” he added.

Madrassa Darul Qura administrator and Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUIF) MNA Qari Fayaz criticised the Lal Masjid administrator’s announcement to enforce Shariah, and said this would damage the image of all madrassa students throughout the world.

He also accused the government of “engineering” the Jamia Hafsa crisis to divert public and media attention from the ongoing judicial crisis. “How is it possible for some madrassa students to take the law into their hands and why has the government been silent so far? The government has certain motives,” said Qari Fayaz.

Maulana Fazlullah of madrassa Hanifia Sunnia in Katlang, Mardan, said ulema should stop people from un-Islamic activities through Islamic teachings. He said the way the Lal Masjid administrator was trying to implement Shariah was against the principles of Islam and the law of the land. Maulana Fazal Manan, the administrator at Madrassa Jamia Qadria in Mardan and provincial president of Tanzimul Madaris, also slammed the formation of a Shariat court at Lal Masjid. “Through this act, all of the country’s madrassas will be accused of training militants,” he said. The clerics said the Lal Masjid administrator should withdraw his demands.


http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\04\08\story_8-4-2007_pg7_14

 

[Snowflake]

Alhumdulillah. Let them destroy all brothels in Pakistan!