Marriage and conduct in the modern world

[lostsoul2016]

Salam brothers and sisters.
I am here to learn and I value the advice given and pray to Allah for your success and happiness.

Given we live in what is now the modern world - I do hold "old school" traditional values, even simple things such as holding the door open for a woman, paying for dinner etc...
The question(s) I have may seem odd or unwelcomed perhaps but one must know the answer and I hope you can help and guide me.

When finding a suitable match, what is the right and "modern" way of doing so? For instance, say there is a match with a potential bride - besides getting to know the family when you sit around in the house, what kinds of questions can you ask?
Are you allowed to speak to the bride?
How does one get to know the bride better? I cannot imagine that the only way to know the bride is only speaking to her family - that wouldn't be a true way of finding out more about the bride and her likes/dislikes, mindset, heart, body language etc...

IF you both agree or like each other then from there onwards, what happens? Is it possible to continue seeing the potential match? I know that you cannot be alone with the potential match for obvious reasons (Shaytan, wrongful thinking, etc...). but what about things like wanting to go out and maybe watch a movie or some restaurant or some social activity? What is possible in this situation?

What about when you marry, are you allowed to take them out for simple things like evening walks during sunset to admire what Allah has given us? I am a romantic myself so I am trying to understand what is allowed/not allowed. What about holding hands in the moment and appreciating one another etc... ?

Sorry for asking but I just have no where to ask these questions and I find that since we have the technology and knowledgeable people here (mashAllah) - I should ask

Thank you and may Allah Bless you

 

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

When finding a suitable match, what is the right and "modern" way of doing so? For instance, say there is a match with a potential bride - besides getting to know the family when you sit around in the house, what kinds of questions can you ask?
Are you allowed to speak to the bride?
How does one get to know the bride better? I cannot imagine that the only way to know the bride is only speaking to her family - that wouldn't be a true way of finding out more about the bride and her likes/dislikes, mindset, heart, body language etc...

There's many ways which people are trying to find spouses, such as online, through mutual friends, arranged marriages, etc..but the most important thing is that her father/or guardian is present. Of course you can speak with the potential bride, as long as her guardian is present with you...if all goes well nikkah is performed and you can get to know your bride even more. Some people perform nikkah and treat it as an "engagement" so that they can get to know one another before the wedding. So they don't consummate the marriage during this time, but it is halaal to go out together alone and do the things you speak about.

The best things to ask in my opinion is about their character (how are they when they're angry for example), their manners (how do they treat their family members), their worship (do they pray?), and I guess anything else that is really important to you that you'd want to know.

What about when you marry, are you allowed to take them out for simple things like evening walks during sunset to admire what Allah has given us? I am a romantic myself so I am trying to understand what is allowed/not allowed. What about holding hands in the moment and appreciating one another etc... ?

When you're married, your wife is halaal for you, so you may do everything you like with her. You do have to be private about your affection though, so don't be very apparent in displaying your affection publicly for others to see.

 

[lostsoul2016]

Once again, thank you so much sister for understanding and treating me with dignity and care. Thank you.

So you are saying that only after Nikkah it is ok to take your fiancé out and get to know her better? Does a guardian (or friend??) need to be present for this?
What about before the Nikkah? What is the ruling there?

As for PDA - yes, I understand completely. One however does feel that it is nice and "warm"/loving to kiss on the lips (not full on for lengthy time in public), hold her hand or even hug her - is this allowed? Obviously if you don't make a big deal/show of it then surely this should be ok, given that especially since most people seem to do this (but sadly in an inappropriate way mostly).

Is the fiancé or wife allowed to show her affection and love to you in public?

 

[muslimah_B]

Once again, thank you so much sister for understanding and treating me with dignity and care. Thank you.

So you are saying that only after Nikkah it is ok to take your fiancé out and get to know her better? Does a guardian (or friend??) need to be present for this?
What about before the Nikkah? What is the ruling there?

As for PDA - yes, I understand completely. One however does feel that it is nice and "warm"/loving to kiss on the lips (not full on for lengthy time in public), hold her hand or even hug her - is this allowed? Obviously if you don't make a big deal/show of it then surely this should be ok, given that especially since most people seem to do this (but sadly in an inappropriate way mostly).

Is the fiancé or wife allowed to show her affection and love to you in public?

Once the nikkah is done, she is your wife and fully halal to you, so everything goes so to speak (as long as it is permitted in the sharia)

Before the nikkah is done, she is only your fiance, so no being alone at all, yes you can go out with her, restaurant, movies etc providing that a male member of her family who is her mahram is present at all times

The reason i have heard most as to why its not liked to show "affection" in public is to prevent evil eye and jelousy
I know that kissing is not allowed publicly, but as for hand holding im not entirely sure, so in sha Allah someone else can clear this bit up

 

[*charisma*]

No thanks needed bro, may allah guide us all.

Its not permissible to really do anything before nikkah except talking when her guardian is present.

In regards to PDA i dont really know the full details bro inshallah ill search more about it but my understanding is that kissing and stuff should be done privately. Allah know best.

 

[lostsoul2016]

Thank you very much for sharing this.
Before the Nikkah - you are saying it is ok to take her out provided there is a male member from her family. Does it have to be male? Can it be female or a friend of the family or her friend? (curious to know, that's all).

What about things like having dinner and holding hands but also looking very lovingly in each others eyes? Is this allowed?

 

[*charisma*]

It should be her male guardian because he will be protective over her the most should anything happen. Male guardian can include her brothers, uncles, grandfather, and father. The male guardian doesnt have to sit in the same room but you and the potential wife have to be in clear view.

I asked sis [MENTION=33982]Aisha[/MENTION] about the PDA and she said:
"It's more in line with haya to keep that to the privacy of the bedroom. Holding hands when going out is ok if it's seen as normal within the culture. If not, then best avoided in company."

So yes you may hold hands and gaze lovingly at one another lol

 

[lostsoul2016]

Wonderful - thank you

 

[Aisha]

So yes you may hold hands and gaze lovingly at one another lol

@lostsoul2016
Just to be clear - this is only allowed after marriage.

 

[*charisma*]

You are most welcome brother, and do not feel ashamed to ask questions about the deen..we are all here to learn inshallah.

 

[lostsoul2016]

Thank you

Now I need to, somehow, find my bride. May Allah grant me that wish and for the one whom I want/feel at most comfortable with

 

[s.ali123]

Thank you

Now I need to, somehow, find my bride. May Allah grant me that wish and for the one whom I want/feel at most comfortable with

Actually if you look at it pretty much what is required and essential is allowed in Islam. Like you can talk with your potential spouse and discuss important things, as much as you want, but in the presence of wali. Even this some scholars say that it is not necessary that the wali should be sitting right there own their nose, but what is said is that it should be appropriate, like a corner in lounge or kitchen etc where they could be seen clearly by the wali (not necessary to directly hear what they are saying). Similarly they can even talk on whatsapp etc as much as they want provided that it is looked after by the wali, or keep him in the group. It is just for the protection of the girl so that no one gets overboard with something.

About showing affection, kissing is clearly something to be done in bedroom. Holding hands or keeping her in arms or looking into eyes etc in public depends more on culture. In some cultures it is quite normal husband wife to do it, so it can be allowed, but this is little bit controversial among scholars, with difference of opinions. If you ask someone in west they will allow, if you ask someone in east, they may say it to be haram [emoji14]
You can even know little bit more about her by working on a group project or something, which should be public, so nothing private, but I dont know how that would be.
But the most important thing is that you ask and discuss all the important issues before the marriage. Learn what to discuss and ask. If you are south asian, I would personally advise you to discuss about living in combined family and doing job, and wife's and husband's role before marriage specifically.

 

[lostsoul2016]

Thank you for the important information

one thing I keep hearing is "must be in the bedroom" - can it not be anywhere else in the house/apartment? is it strictly in the bedroom for intimacy or kissing/hugging?

 

[ardianto]

Thank you for the important information

one thing I keep hearing is "must be in the bedroom" - can it not be anywhere else in the house/apartment? is it strictly in the bedroom for intimacy or kissing/hugging?

It can be anywhere, as long as other people cannot see.

 

[lostsoul2016]

The one difficulty I am having/trying to understand is - if one is a passionate/very affectionate person then how is it to know that the potential bride is as well? of course you would not want to do something that may make her feel uncomfortable. You also cannot ask such questions either, correct?

 

[s.ali123]

The one difficulty I am having/trying to understand is - if one is a passionate/very affectionate person then how is it to know that the potential bride is as well? of course you would not want to do something that may make her feel uncomfortable. You also cannot ask such questions either, correct?

You can ask questions which may direct to it. Offcourse you can directly ask things like,
"what is your opinion about husband wife holding hands or hugging in public? "
"Do you think there is a level of haya between the spouses?" Etc etc

One of the great idea to discuss with your potential match, if you have reached to certain point of discussion, is to gift her some book in Islamic marriage etc. Then you can mention a page and ask her opinion about it, or whether she will be comfortable with such in marriage or not etc

 

[muslimah_B]

The one difficulty I am having/trying to understand is - if one is a passionate/very affectionate person then how is it to know that the potential bride is as well? of course you would not want to do something that may make her feel uncomfortable. You also cannot ask such questions either, correct?

You could say that your very "old romantic" or "lovy dovy" obviously when you become more accustomed to the meetings and just ask if this type of behaviour is ok with her,
Maybe say you like taking strolls in the park holding hands etc and see if she would enjoy those sorts of thing, just say a few of the things you would like to do when married with your potential wife and she will tell you if shes not into those things.

(Some women dont like the lovy dovey romantic types and prefer to kinda be left alone lol)

What your not allowed to do is talk about explicit things of a sexual nature etc

 

[ardianto]

You can ask questions which may direct to it. Offcourse you can directly ask things like,
"what is your opinion about husband wife holding hands or hugging in public? "
"Do you think there is a level of haya between the spouses?" Etc etc

One of the great idea to discuss with your potential match, if you have reached to certain point of discussion, is to gift her some book in Islamic marriage etc. Then you can mention a page and ask her opinion about it, or whether she will be comfortable with such in marriage or not etc

Eh, bro, this is not job interview!

Do not ask interview question like that. First, she would dislike it. Second, interview question like that usually make someone lie, so you cannot see her personality.

Talk with her like you talk with new acquaintance. Example "I am Ali. I live in .... I love gardening and hiking. How about you?". Let the conversation run naturally, with purpose to make you know about her, and she know about you. It will give you image about her personality.

After both parties can communicate well, then you can start talk about your intention to propose marriage.

 

[s.ali123]

Eh, bro, this is not job interview!

Do not ask interview question like that. First, she would dislike it. Second, interview question like that usually make someone lie, so you cannot see her personality.

Talk with her like you talk with new acquaintance. Example "I am Ali. I live in .... I love gardening and hiking. How about you?". Let the conversation run naturally, with purpose to make you know about her, and she know about you. It will give you image about her personality.

After both parties can communicate well, then you can start talk about your intention to propose marriage.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention the starting coversations. First do what the brother said.

 

[lostsoul2016]

Salam brothers and sisters who have given me such helpful and important answers here to my question. Sorry I had not received notifications by email for some reasons and seem to have neglected this topic!

Situation:

Potential bride only has a mother, who lives far away but the bride lives on her own or with her child.
How can one get to know her? I mean, possible to talk via skype and or phone before deciding that you are compatible?

conversation, needless to say, would not be inappropriate.

What about wanting to see her in person in a public place, would this be ok?