[JASEEMXX91]

Usually in other forums i start a Post saying Hello, but here i expect to meet more fellow Muslims, so...

Aslaam Alaykum, Help me with clarifying my situation.

I am not going to reveal our names, for the sake of you know why.

I am 22 years old, doing My engineering, My studies will be completed by 2015 July, So that's another Year and Half left.

Now the second Character is a Girl of 21 years old, doing Interior designing. Her studies will be over in another 6months.

We have been in Love for the past 2 years, and we knew each other for 3 years now. We are living in two different countries. It has been always like that since we were friends. We only met once in a super market, just a couple months back when she came to visit her home country where i am located currently.

Now, we were caught together by her Parents more than a year Back, and her parents called me straight away. They said, if i want her take her away from them now or never come back asking for her. I told them i am studying now and i need time to finish my studies to go for a marriage. But they weren't listening. They knew i couldn't take her away then, that's the only reason they told me like that then.

Then they asked for my Dads number. I gave them that in time. And my parents came to know about it, though i had told about it to my Mom once we were caught by the girls Parents.

Now, my Family is just a Middle Class family, and hers is a bit over us. And for this reason, her Parents are not interested in going forward with our marriage. This is the only reason. Her parents even told mine, that they are looking at better Proposals.

I love her, and she loves me.

She have been saying No to all the proposals they bring. and they have been hurting her both physically and mentally. At times they are good to her, but when she says no to a proposal they start their torturing.

And on my side i feel helpless about it, and then i was thinking about just taking her away and getting married.

As a Man, i can marry without Parents approval. But as a Girl she needs her parents permission, else our marriage is Invalid. But as, her Parents are not looking at her wishes simply because i am not Rich enough, i think its a INVALID reason to not Look at me a possible Groom, so in this situation, will getting married to Her without both the parents approval be a issue in islamic view?

As for how we will live after marriage as i am still studying, i have saved some money, for this situation. and it can get me through till my studies are over, and after that i can always find a work.

I would be really glad to get advices from fellow muslims.

Sorry about the long post.

Aslaam alaykum.

 

[Alpha Dude]

Wa alaykum salam

I understand your predicament brother. I must say though, that a marriage undertaken under normal circumstances is difficult enough as it is - marrying without her parents' permission (that's if it is even allowed in Islam) is only going to add further difficulty and present cases which can be used as ammo by the shaytan in order to break down your marriage.

You live in different countries, which means either of you two is going to have to move. Do you think she will easily uproot and move over to your country - especially without support from her family? Maybe now she may be willing to do that but once the initial euphoria dies down, she may begin to feel daunted, lonely without her family and friends etc. wondering whether she made a mistake and that's when shaytan will make his move and cast whispers into your hearts against each other.

They may hurt her or tell her off for refusing proposals but irrespective of all that, she still loves them. Could she really cope without seeing or being part of her parents' lives for the rest of her life (assuming her parents cut off all ties with her once they find out what's happened)?

Also note that the duas parents make for this children are readily accepted. Why cut her off from the duas her mother and father would make for her - in fact, their duas may turn into curses as she would have broken their hearts by leaving them to run off with you. Imagine living being married to a woman who's parents have enmity and hatred toward their daughter due to what they see as her betrayal and day in day out make dua against her and of course, against you the person who corrupted and took her away. Wouldn't it be better to marry under circumstance where both set of parents, from your side and the girls make dua for happiness and not curse you to misery? Can you see how there wouldn't be any baraka/blessing in your marriage devoid of the dua of her parents (and replaced with curses)?

It's also a sin to cut ties with relations (which is what she'd be doing, effectively).

Another thing to think about - what if you get married and things turn sour and you end up disliking her? Never mind what you feel at this moment in time with regards to how that's never going to happen as you love her so much and she you, as that is pre-marital euphoria speaking. The fact is, it could happen. What will she do in a foreign country with no family? Could she go back to her parents with her tail between her legs in that situation admitting she was wrong and that she made a mistake? Would her parents accept her back?

I think she has a lot more to lose and more to put on the line, in terms of her religion than you do in this situation. Running away from parents is not something that anyone should realistically take as an option.

'They got married and lived happily ever after'. This is a fairy tale lie brother. Getting married may be easy but what comes after is definitely the difficult part (no wonder it is termed usually as half the iman).

I know you're keen to help her from her parents but don't rush into anything and think carefully.

 

[~Zaria~]

:wasalam: brother,


Sometimes, Allah (subhanawataála) places 'obstacles' in the path that we may desire for ourselves.

While at times, it may be a means of testing us, at other times, it is a means of Allah protecting us from a greater harm - that we cannot perceive at present.

And yet other times, these difficulties are a result of Allah's displeasure with our actions - and He desires that we let go of that which is distancing ourselves from Him, and that we turn to Him in repentance.

Brother, it is likely that in this instance, Allah is warding you from even more difficulties, should you continue with marriage to this young lady (Allah knows best).
This is not to mean that she is not a good muslimah, or that her family are not good people.......but perhaps, this is not what is best for You.

Allah alone knows what the future holds for us.
It is our duty to have implicit trust in His plans, and if we have made an effort in a manner that is pleasing to Allah - then to leave the rest to Him.
And irrespective of the outcome, to be in a state of complete resignation to His will.

This is called Tafweez - where we say: O Allah, I have made the necessary effort in this matter, and I have complete trust in Your plans for my life - for there is ONLY goodness in all that You have decreed.

So brother - make the correct effort in seeking this ladies hand in marriage: if possible, let your families meet in person to discuss this prospect of union, and to in shaa Allah, come to an understanding and compromise.
Read istikharaah salaah (prayer for guidance), and ask Allah to guide you towards that which would be beneficial to you in this world and the next.

And then - leave it to Allah (subhanawataála).

Remember, that great wisdom lies in the plans of Allah for our lives.
And that He only wants what is best for us, and that every test becomes a means of drawing closer to Him.

(On a personal note (and Im sure that others would have also experienced) - there has been so many occasions where I desperately wanted something to work out.....but Allah had other, and far better plans.
At the time, I may not have been able to see it.....and it was only later, that I could look back and say: Alhamdulillah! This was indeed the best decision for me, and by the mercy of Allah, I have been protected from something that could been much worse.
(Ps. we should also remember to take a parents insight with much contemplation, for they only want what is best for their kids. And the respect that they deserve comes second to Allah (subhanawataála) Himself - so how much regard we should be giving them in all matters...),


"....But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you;
and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you.
And Allah Knows, while you know not."
(translation Quran 2:216)


:wa:

 

[JASEEMXX91]

Aslaam Alykum

Thanks to both of you for your replies. I have to clarify a few things for you and to get answers for the rest. So here's me hoping that i will get what i am looking for, Answers.

First, ill clarify our situation here.

Me and the Girl are Citizens of Country "A". Our parents migrated to country "B" in search of work.

I stayed in the country "B" for 18 years till my schooling was completed, after which i came to country "B" for my further studies.

She used to come to country "A" during her vacations. To meet her family members and stuff like that. That is when we met recently.

So its not like she has nothing to do with this country. Also, once we get married, we will be staying in country "A" only till my studies gets over, after which i plan to return with Her to country "B" where we wish to settle down.

Hope i clarified things a bit better to you guys now.

Now i need answers for these..

1) Can a Girls parent, say NO to a Guy, simply because he is still studying ?

2) Is it not against Islam to say NO against the possible wedding of ours when he cant find a genuine fault with me ?

3) In this circumstances, can a Imam act as her Guardian, as to me, her dad is giving non Islamic reasons?

Because as far as i have understood, If a Girl and a Boy wishes to marry, and if they are Fit to, even if the Guy is unemployed, parents have to arrange their marriage and support them.
This is what i read. Or am i the wrong one ?

Another thing, what if after taking the Girl with me, we call her dad and ask his permission to marry? Can he deny us ? Can he have a valid reason to deny us his blessings? Even if he deny, will it be valid ?

I know i am asking too many questions, but i have no where else to go. And i would like us to get married, in the best possible way we can.

Aslaam alaykum Brothers and Sisters.

May Allah Bless you all

 

[ardianto]

Assalamualaikum, young brother Jaseemxx91

If you notice, I gave two likes in this thread. Yes, I interested to follow this thread is because your story is bit similar as my past story, although there are many difference. In my story I was from middle class and still study, that girl from lower class and was working in small company to fulfill her family needs.

Okay, I will start from beginning. I hope you can take a lesson.

When I was teen I was thinking I will love only one woman for life time, and I have planned to finish study, get job, then looking for someone. But just I graduated from highschool I began to be approached by the girls. In the beginning it made me wonder, but then some comments about me from the girls made me realize that I had something that made the girls gave special attention to me. And I began to thinking "If I could get someone right now, why should I wait?".

I had a friend who I knew since in highschool in that time. One day he told me about his female cousin. My friend story about her made me want to know her. The chance came at Sunday in that girl sister wedding party in her mother house (her parent divorced). I met her and I thought "Hey, she is the right girl as a wife". Frankly, I like modest woman, and she was modest. So I told my friend I wanted to meet her again. I met her again in her father house at Saturday, and I got her. As fast as this I got her?. Yes.

That’s happened prior to my 22nd birthday, and she was 21. (notice the age)

In the third meeting I met her mother again who didn't say anything. But in the fourth meeting, that girl apologized and told me that we could not be together again. She told me that her mother asked her to choose other guy. I was so shocked, but because I had principle one woman for life time, I tried not to give up.

I came to her mother and asking why she did not approve me?. She told me because that’s I was still studied and need few years before I could marry her daughter. She told me too that in her environment, age 21 was considered old enough for a girl. I told her that I was serious to marry her daughter, but I need few years. But she replied with "Something can be happen if my daughter must wait for few years, and I am not sure if you will not turn to another girl". I told her again "I will not turn to another girl!". But she looked like could not believe it.

But still I didn’t want to give up. I came to her father and told him about my intention to marry his daughter. Then we went to her mother home, and discuss about it. Finally they told me that if I want to take their daughter I must propose marriage officially. Suddenly I realize a problem, my mother will not approve me to propose marriage will I still studied.

I was confused for a moment, but suddenly I remember something in Islam that I had learned. So I told them “Sir, mam, I ask your daughter to be my wife”. They replied “If you want to propose marriage, you should come with your parent”. I had guessed it. Then I told them again “In Islam a man doesn’t need wali, he can comes to nikah alone. So, I propose this marriage alone”. Do you know what then happened?. I was scolded!. Yes, although in Islam a man can go to nikah without parent permission, people still can’t accept a man who proposes marriage without telling his parent!

Still I didn’t want to give up. So I tried to find a right time to tell my mother will I start tahajjud and made du’a. Finally I told my mother (my father had passed away) that I would introduce a girl. Then me, my mother and my male relative came to that girl home. Arrived there my mother knew that I wanted to propose marriage. It made her very angry, and also upset that girl family. My mother scolded me on the way home, and at home.

But, the young Ardianto never gave up. I came again to that girl home and told her parents that I was serious to marry their daughter. I told them I would convince my mother to approves me marry her, and I promise I would not leave their daughter. After they saw my seriousness finally they allowed me and was willing to wait me until I ready to marry their daughter. That made me happy, and I started to determine to prepare myself, and I was planning to establish business as soon as possible, so I could marry their daughter even before I finish my study. I also told my mother that I wanted to marry that girl. Finally my mother said “Up to you!”

This was end of the story?. No! Like her mother said, something could be happen if her daughter must wait until I ready, and that’s happened. My ‘past’ came again!

There was someone who closed with me before. She was my classmate in highschool. She missed me who lost from her life, and when she met me again and knew I would marry another girl, she was jealous. The she contacted my mother and told about her closeness with me. To be honest, she was more beautiful than the girl who I wanted to marry and worked in a national bank. My mother ‘fell in love’ with her and started urge me to marry her. The girl who I wanted to marry finally knew it, her family too. Then they started urge her to leave me and accept marriage proposal from another man. Situation was getting worse.

What I was thinking in this situation?. Just like you, take her away, marry her with wali hakim, and then tell both parents.

But the girl who I wanted to marry refused this idea. She knew, instead of solving the problem, it could cause new problem. My mother might be would not expel me, but must be would dislike her and it would make her feel uncomfortable if she became my wife. Her family probably would not accept her again if she married me through this way.

So, young brother, take your girl away and marry her without telling her parents is not a good idea. The best idea is negotiate her parents. Show them your seriousness to marry her, bring your parent in this negotiation. Have spirit like my spirit, don’t give up, don’t give up, don’t give up!

Back to my story. Finally the girl who I wanted to marry decided to leave me. She knew, my mother would not approve her because my mother really wanted me to marry my ex-classmate. She realized it when I was hospitalized because typhoid. She met my ex-classmate at hospital and then met my mother at home who ignored her.

Although it broke my heart, I tried to accept her decision. Actually that was not the first time she decide to leave me. In the previous cases, my handsomeness always saved me, but not in her last decision. Then I decided to accept my ex-classmate. I realize, my closeness with her made her had special feeling to me. It’s happened in December 1990, when I was in early of 23 age. Before you were born.

I married my ex-classmate in 1994 because she wanted me really ready to get married, and still be with her until June 2013 when she closed her eyes forever, after four years in struggle against breast cancer. This is the biggest loss in my life because I love my wife so much. Yes, although she was not my first love, although she was someone who I expected go from my life, I could love her with all of my heart.

Young bro, I understand if you really want to marry your girl. You should try your best attempt to make your dream comes true. But remember, who is your life-partner is in the hand of Allah. If your girl decides to not marry you because she want to obey her parents, you should able to accept it as a destiny.

 

[ardianto]

1) Can a Girls parent, say NO to a Guy, simply because he is still studying ?

If the girl parent say NO, it's not because this guy is still studying, but because he haven't had a job! Even the guy parent can prevent too if their son want to marry someone but haven't ready to fulfill his wife needs.

Young bro, I am sure if now you already have a job although still with small income and still study, her parent would thinking differently.

Do not too fast to make conclusion that your girl parent said no just simply because you are still studying and your parent wealth is lower than your girl parent wealth.

2) Is it not against Islam to say NO against the possible wedding of ours when he cant find a genuine fault with me ?

It's about trust. There are no parent who will give their daughter to a guy who they cannot trust.

My ex-classmate parents could trust me. They knew I had responsibility to marry their daughter after I finish study and then fulfill her needs. My ex-classmate was working in a bank when finally we made promise to marry each other. That's happened after she took advanced study in computer which I paid the expense. My empathy to her poor life made us close, but I didn't think to marry her when I helped her.

Different than mother of the girl who I wanted to marry. She didn't trust me and was not sure that I was serious to marry her daughter.

Young bro, what you should do now is try to make your girl parent trust you.

3) In this circumstances, can a Imam act as her Guardian, as to me, her dad is giving non Islamic reasons?

Hmm, thinking about take her away and marry her without her parent permission?.

Okay, if you could marry her through this way, then what's next?. How you fulfill her needs? how if her parent decide to cut off their family relationship with her?. Try to thinking long and not just follow the 'young blood spirit'. And are you sure she is willing to get married through this way too?. You cannot guess what's in a woman mind.


Young bro, what you should do now is negotiate again with her parents. Don't give up in your attempt to get her. But don't be selfish. If later she change her mind and choose to obey her parents with not marry you, you should able to realease her. If you love someone you must able to give what the best for her although it's very bitter.

 

[JASEEMXX91]

Aslaam alaykum Brother.

Thanks for sharing your views on the matter.

I understand we fall in love with other girls, i get it. But, trust me i am not one of that guy. If i loose her, ill never be able to forgive myself. And its not my young blood speaking. I might be young from my age, but i have thought about it over and over again a thousand times, and more.

And about How ill look after her? I had already said it above, i have money for us to live for a Year, during which ill finish my Engineering Degree and find a Job to sustain us.

If we run away and get married, both our Parents will see as an outcast, and not a Part of their family. For the reason that we married whom we wished to marry.
They wont talk to us, but we will still want our parents, and we will try getting them back. Do you think that can count as "Breaking relationship" with family in Islamic views?

What is that we broke that is so unforgiving?

Getting married as soon as we can ?

We both are Muslims and are not blood related. We are of age, and Physically and Mentally fit.

So i ask again,

Incase her parents keep insisting they cant wait for me to get JOB or that they wont get her married to me ever, Can we get married without their permission under a Imam?
Can the Imam act as the girls Wali ?

Help me out brothers.

I don't want anyone to tell me that there will be someone else ? I am looking for a solution to this problem ? Not to avoid the problem completely.

Aslaam alaykum.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Consulting the parents at the time of nikaah

Q: Is it recommended for children to obey parents in marriage as they are opposing the children?

​

A: If parents are stopping their children for deeni reasons or due to them not being compatible, then they are justified and they should be obeyed. Parents have more experience and understanding in regard to nikaah than their children. Hence the hadeeth teaches us to consult the parents at the time of nikaah and take their advice.
And Allah Ta'ala (الله تعالى) knows best.
عن حمزة بن عبد الله بن عمر عن أبيه قال كانت تحتى امرأة وكنت أحبها وكان عمر يكرهها فقال لى طلقها فأبيت فأتى عمر النبى صلى الله عليه وسلم فذكر ذلك له فقال النبى صلى الله عليه وسلم طلقها (سنن أبي داود # 5140)باب الكفاءة من كافأه إذا ساواه والمراد هنا مساواة مخصوصة أو كون المرأة أدنى ( الكفاءة معتبرة ) في ابتداء النكاح للزومه أو لصحته ( من جانبه ) أي الرجل لأن الشريفة تأبى أن تكون فراشا للدنيء ولذا ( لا ) تعتبر ( من جانبها ) لأن الزوج مستفرش فلا تغيظه دناءة الفراش وهذا عند الكل في الصحيح كما في الخبازية لكن في الظهيرية وغيرها هذا عنده وعندهما تعتبر في جانبها أيضا ( و ) الكفاءة ( هي حق الولي لا حقها ) فلو نكحت رجلا ولم تعلم حاله فإذا هو عبد لا خيار لها بل للأولياء ولو زوجوها برضاها ولم يعلموا بعدم الكفاءة ثم علموا لا خيار لأحد لا إذا شرطوا الكفاءة أو أخبرهم بها وقت العقد فزوجوها على ذلك ثم ظهر أنه غير كفء كان لهم الخيار ولواجبة فليحفظ ( وتعتبر ) الكفاءة للزوم النكاح خلافا لمالك ( نسبا فقريش ) بعضهم ( أكفاء ) بعض ( و ) بقية ( العرب ) بعضهم ( أكفاء ) بعض واستثنى في الملتفى تبعا للهداية بني باهلة لخستهم والحق الإطلاق قاله المصنف كالبحر والنهر والفتح والشرنبلالية ويعضده إطلاق المصنفين كالكنز والدرر وهذا في العرب ( و ) أما في العجم فتعتبر ( حرية وإسلاما ) فمسلم بنفسه أو معتق غير كفء لمن أبوها مسلم أو حر أو معتق وأمها حرة الأصل ومن أبوه مسلم أو حر غير كفء لذات أبوين ( وأبوان فيهما كالآباء ) لتمام النسب بالجد وفي الفتح ولا يبعد مكافأة مسلم بنفسه لمعتق بنفسه وأما معتق الوضيع فلا يكافىء معتقه الشريف وأأا مرتد أسلم فكفء لمن لم يرتد وأما الكفاءة بين الذميين فلا تعتبر إلا لفتنة ( و ) تعتبر في العرب والعجم ( ديانة ) أي تقوى فليس فاسق كفؤا لصالحة أو فاسقة بنت صالح معلنا كان أولا على الظاهر نهر ( ومالا ) بأن يقدر على المعجل ونفقة شهر لو غير محترف وإلا فإن كان يكتسب كل يوم كنفايتها لو تطيق الجماع ( وحرفة ) فمثل حائك غير كفء لمثل خياط ولا خياط لبزاز وتاجر ولا هما لعالم وقاض وأما أتباع الظلمة فأخس من الكل وأما الوظائف فمن الحرف فصاحبها كفء التاجر لو غير دنيئة كبوابة وذو تدريس أو نظر كفء لبنت الأمير بمصر بحر ( و ) الكفاءة ( اعتبارها عند ) ابتداء ( العقد فلا يضر زوالها بعده ) فلو كان وقته كفؤا ثم فجر لم يفسخ وأما لو كان دباغا فصار تاجرا فإن بقي عارها لم يكن كفؤا وإلا لا نهر بحثا ( العجمي لا يكون كفؤا للعربية ولو ) كان العجمي ( عالما ) أو سلطانا ( وهو الأصح ) (الدر المختار 3/ 84-92)Answered by:
Mufti Zakaria Makada
Checked & Approved:
Mufti Ebrahim Salejee (Isipingo Beach)

 

[JASEEMXX91]

Aslaam Alaykum to all Brothers and Sisters.

You were almost going to answer one of my main question.

" If parents are stopping their children for deeni reasons or due to them not being compatible, then they are justified and they should be obeyed "

Here me not being rich enough is not a Deeni reason.
I am educated and a perfectly fine Human being. How do they decide the compatibility ? By looking at my bank balance ?

The way i am seeing your answer, is that I can go forward and marry without her parents permission. Is that so ?

Please provide me with complete answers.

Btw my exams are starting from tomorrw, would be great if there are more pupil to pray for me.

Aslaam Alaykum