IslamicBoard
Thread: Missionaries: Noble and Loving or Arrogant and Intollerant?
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Halal Food Gastronomy | PHP 8.4 patch for vBulletin 4.2.5
P

Pygoscelis

Messages
4,009
Reaction score
358
Gender
Male
Religion
Atheism
Short of answering the door nude or screaming obscenities at them how do you get rid of missionaries?

There has been an upsurge in door to door missionaries (mostly jehovas witnesses) here lately and it has got me thinking. These people at noble and loving but arrogant and intollerant at the same time. It is quite the conflicted state.

They are noble and loving in that they see us "unsaved" bound for an eternal hell and take time out of their day and make efforts to "save" us. If I believed people were dooming themselves to eternal torture I'd probably do the same. And I actually wonder about the more 'tolerant' believers who don't try to save sinners' souls. Do they not believe their own holy text? Do they simply not care about us who are ****ing ourselves? The missionaries from this perspective are loving and noble and to be commended.

But then at the same time missiories are arrogant and intollerant. Missionaries completely disregard the religions and beliefs and worldviews of their targets. They prey on young, poor and and desperate people, vulnerable minds, to spread their own religious views. They try to force their views into public policy forcing all of us to fall in line with their ways of thinking. From this perspective they are arrogant and intolerant.

So when talking to them I often feel an inner conflict. On the one hand I want to slap them and scream at them for being such jerks in the way they prey on the vulnerable (often taking their money as tithes too) but on the other hand I don't want to thank them for caring enough to try to "save" people (even though its all in their own heads).

Thoughts?
 
The only missionaries that I sometimes meet are Jeahova Witnesses. They are bit weird but I try to be nice to them .
 
Missionaries, in general, are a pestilence on the Islamic world and Muslims period. They are troublemakers who try to corrupt Muslims and intice them with false promises. Its not just the missionaries here in the United States, but all these Western missionaries who go overseas to Islamic countries, and harass Muslims.

One example rings a bell, and that is the example of Dana Curry and Heather Mercer, who went to Afghanistan to preach Christianity to Afghanis. Both women were first-rate liars, who claimed the Taliban were viscious people. In fact, its just no coincidence that most of the missionaries sent abroad, work in tandem with the American government. I've met one missionary, who went to Pakistan, and he was a big -------!

Muslims, beware of your enemies.
 
i regard them in the same category as salesmen. i just say, "i'm not interested" and close the door.
during one phase when they were hyper-active, i put a sign on my door that said:

"missionaries, salesmen and politicians:

Go Away!!!!

thankyou!"

it worked on about 95% of them.
i see no reason to tolerate them.
 
snakelegs said:
i see no reason to tolerate them.
Click to expand...

oh:... so how did you deal with the other 5%... :nervous:

I get them around here also, in fact I enjoy talking to em sometimes oh:
I kinda feel sorry for em, going around voluntarily, having the door shut on em, people making joke of em, having Snakeleg shoot et em... lifes a pain

So when they see me with me broad smile like so I am sure they appreciate it and I take my opportunity to give some Dawah. we'd exchange the usual greetings, salutations, intro blah blah and JUST as they reach to give me that Pamphlet they have I'd tell em in a prompt manner "I believe in the one true God and I believe Jesus was the massenger of God, We believe in his Miraculious birth, His mother Mariam was among the greatest Woman to ever exist and the Birth was Miraculious as she was a chaste woman, We believe that Jesus performed many miracles through the help of God, We believe he is a Messiah therefore believe he will return..(or something to that affect and so on)"... infact I realise I'm doing most the talking some ten minutes down the line.

They don't come around these days ^o)
 
i pointed to the sign, said "didn't you see this?" and closed the door.
as a non-christian in the u.s., christians have tried to convert me since i was a child. i don't like missionaries and the idea of knocking on somebody's door to push your religion at them strikes me as arrogant, rude and intrusive.
i'm not nasty to them, but i also don't let them take my time.
i don't feel sorry for them.
if i was interested in christianity, i don't think i'd have much trouble finding a church, without needing someone to knock on my door.
 
you wanna get rid of them? well just go along, and say you already know the message.

i had a missionary come up to me in the street once, they were called Jesus army, they were handing flyers out etc, they had their own double decker bus. the guy came up to me with a pamphlet and he asked me do I know who Jesus is? and i smiled and said yes and took the pamphlet, and he left me alone.

dont argue, and smile and say yes, and they will walk away.

although technically i did answer his Q, he asked if i knew who Jesus is, and as a Muslim i believe i know him better than this missionary does! but he thought i meant yes in a Christian way offcourse.

either way, smile, say yes, take the paper, and your okay.
 
snakelegs said:
i pointed to the sign, said "didn't you see this?" and closed the door.
as a non-christian in the u.s., christians have tried to convert me since i was a child. i don't like missionaries and the idea of knocking on somebody's door to push your religion at them strikes me as arrogant, rude and intrusive.
i'm not nasty to them, but i also don't let them take my time.
i don't feel sorry for them.
if i was interested in christianity, i don't think i'd have much trouble finding a church, without needing someone to knock on my door.
Click to expand...

oh: I think your case is exceptional and that is a breach of privacy since the sign is there. They don't read your sign but they expect you to read the bible, tut tut...Some people just don't give up, even when they know you don't want it! I don't know how it is in the US either.

I remember a man who bought a Gun in order to threaten a sales man from calling on him. The dude just wouldn't give up trying to sell double glazed windows and was harrasing the man at continiuosly, so much so the man was losing sleep over it. The police of course wouldn't take it seriously, so he bought a Gun, called the sales over for a cuppa and discuss the quote much to his surprise oh: and when he got inside the Man took the sales man hostage with a Gun. Police was called, incident was reported and now the issue was known to be serious. End of

And they both lived happily ever after, Insha'Allah oh:
 
well, i only put up the sign because they were coming around several times a week for a while. lately, they rarely come around and i took down the sign years ago.
most seem polite enough, but then, i don't give them much of a chance.
 
snakelegs said:
lately, they rarely come around and i took down the sign years ago.
Click to expand...

Do I sense a sign of regret oh:....no need to be holding back snake, you can just spit it out and tell us you've started missing them kay:

Just kidding ;D
 
Pygoscelis said:
So when talking to them I often feel an inner conflict. On the one hand I want to slap them and scream at them for being such jerks in the way they prey on the vulnerable (often taking their money as tithes too) but on the other hand I don't want to thank them for caring enough to try to "save" people (even though its all in their own heads).

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I find heavy-handed evangelism not only unpleasant, but also ineffective.
Certainly being a member here at LI has given me an understanding of what it is like to be at the receiving end of evangelising/dawah ...

I doubt that I would ever make a street preacher or knock on people's doors - because pushing my own beliefs onto people who are not interested in hearing them is just not my thing.

However, I do understand and share the desire to 'share my faith' with other people, and I recognise and respect that in those of other religions.

Those Muslim brothers and sisters, who have PM'd me over the time I have been here to lead me to Islam, have done so out of good intentions, love and care for me. Although I didn't take them up on their offer, I do respect them for it in return. :thankyou:

I think the difference between sharing your faith to those who are interested and pushing your beliefs onto others become apparent in the differences between threads such as '100 reasons why the Qu'ran is not God's word' (I made that one up ...) and 'Questions about Christians. Requesting answers from Christians.' (This one is a real thread)

The first thread is likely to be aggressive and lead only to arguments and heated disagreements; the latter invites people to simple ask questions which will simply be answered.
The first thread is likely to be closed in a fairly short time; the latter has been running for over 18 months.

It shows me that sharing our faiths and beliefs with each other is first and foremost a good thing:
  • People can make informed choices
  • People can learn from each other
  • People can understand and relate to each other better

But we have to learn to share our faiths and beliefs without being pushy or aggressive.
Christianity teaches that we can only invite people to accept Christ's message - and that they have free choice to do so, or not.

Peace
 
:sl:
I have no real problem with missionaries - now that I mention it, I've not got a problem with anyone (unless of course they're shouting verbal abuse or getting violent). But I personally think that their tactic is flawed - you should show a good impression of your religion by your actions not just Copy/pasted info on pamphlets and hand them out to everyone you meet. Don't get me wrong, pamphlets are helpful but not when they're shoved down your throat - if people truly want to learn about another religion they will actively look for the info. Some may need incentive which is where showing through actions comes in to play.

I understand why they do what they do and have some respect for them, however I do believe that the best way is to convince someone in events like these, is through actions
 
I like Jehova's Witnesses. I don't want to convert, but they seem like pretty nice, decent people - plus, they believe what they do strongly enough to go door to door, knowing full well they'll probably have it slammed in their face. Anyone willing to go through such humiliation in pursuit of their beliefs deserves some respect in my book.

Course, if you look at it the other way, they can be an annoyance and, philosphically, I can see how people can think they're being arrogant and intolerant of people with other faiths - the old 'convert or be punished' thing.

The ones I've met don't tend to send off these vibes, though. They seem pretty well-meaning and polite, and rather than disrespecting your religion, they tend to endorse their own. To me, that approach neutralises any possible arrogance and intollerance.

I only tend to have a problem with international missionaries of any faith if they make conversion a pre-condition of aid. On the other hand, if they provide aid impartially, and some people are won over to that faith because of the overwhelming kindness its followers have bestowed upon them - so be it.

As to the dilemma posed in the first post - I think leading by example is the best way to win people round to one's way of thinking or way of life. I'm not very good at 'evangelising', but if I were, I'd probably take the approach of showing everybody how good my tea set is, rather than making negative remarks about theirs.
 
Last edited:
Asking whether missionaries are "noble and loving or arrogant and intolerant" is sort of like asking if a cashier at Wal-mart is nice or mean...depends upon the missionary and what they're trying to achieve.
 
Pygoscelis said:
Short of answering the door nude or screaming obscenities at them how do you get rid of missionaries?

There has been an upsurge in door to door missionaries (mostly jehovas witnesses) here lately and it has got me thinking. These people at noble and loving but arrogant and intollerant at the same time. It is quite the conflicted state.

They are noble and loving in that they see us "unsaved" bound for an eternal hell and take time out of their day and make efforts to "save" us. If I believed people were dooming themselves to eternal torture I'd probably do the same. And I actually wonder about the more 'tolerant' believers who don't try to save sinners' souls. Do they not believe their own holy text? Do they simply not care about us who are ****ing ourselves? The missionaries from this perspective are loving and noble and to be commended.

But then at the same time missiories are arrogant and intollerant. Missionaries completely disregard the religions and beliefs and worldviews of their targets. They prey on young, poor and and desperate people, vulnerable minds, to spread their own religious views. They try to force their views into public policy forcing all of us to fall in line with their ways of thinking. From this perspective they are arrogant and intolerant.

So when talking to them I often feel an inner conflict. On the one hand I want to slap them and scream at them for being such jerks in the way they prey on the vulnerable (often taking their money as tithes too) but on the other hand I don't want to thank them for caring enough to try to "save" people (even though its all in their own heads).

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

hola,

there are different kinds of missionaries... i spent many years of my life as a missionary all over the world, mostly in africa and south america since i am fluent in french and spanish. i was a nurse, we helped with vaccinations and basic care for local people.

i think the door to door people are conscientious people who do not believe what i do. i do not see them where i live because our property is gated and it is not possible to get to the main residence without somebody noticing. in college i did get visited by a lot of different missionaries, particularly jehovas witness and mormons there were also indescript protestant denominations and muslims. they came to our dorm rooms to give us pamphlets and to talk to us, i felt a little harrassed by a boy who i think had a crush on me from an organization called 'LADO' and by the mormons who (while nice) i think began to take advantage of me since i always offered them sandwiches and tea...

there is literally nothing that will take me away from Christ or the Church and there is no argument that i have not heard or outreasoned. when confronted personally i try to patiently listen but politely indicate i am not interested in converting to anything, and that i do not wish to discuss my theological beliefs in this setting. on the internet sometimes i feel a little bullied and might respond but 9/10 times i will read proselytism or a negative comment and dismiss it out of hand.

i think the biggest missionaries i have faced were my atheist college professors, particularly one who attempted to start a relationship with me. i was known in classes and on campus as a very devout Catholic but i was kind of the darling of the biochem and molecular biophysics departments, and my professors thought that it was not right for me to believe in 'superstition' so they brought up the topic of religion many times when i went to speak with them... especially my advisor and that one professor i mentioned - he was a little different...

i considered him a friend, he was in his late 20s and we had a connection. he invited me to his home for dinner many times so we could talk about things and inevitably it always turned to religion. eventually i tried to convince him about Catholicism and invited him to come to Mass... that did not inspire anything in him but i think he misunderstood and thought that it brought us closer together in the way he wanted us to be. the last time i saw him was during the summer after i had finished his class, he invited me over to talk about a WHO internship i tried (but failed) to attain and the subject quickly turned to 'us' and he tried to kiss me. it was too awkward to see him after that...

but i have gone off on a tangent... i think from my experience it was the atheists who were the worst, they did not seem to have much regard for getting very personal, nor did they care what position they put me in as a student, nor did they ever accept that i would not be an atheist... they continued to push well after most civilized people would stop. i do not trust them very much on account of it...

que Dios te bendiga
 
There certainly are missionaries of all faiths, including "missionary atheists" (not sure the term is appropriate) who seek to bring everyone away from faith and to reason (as they see it).

I still remain conflicted though. I do see the conflict within missionary types. They really want to help me and are willing to make an arse of themselves to make the attempt. It shows they care... in a warped sort of way.

I actually wonder about the moderate religious people who claim they also believe us "unsaved" are going to be tortured forever and ever but don't seem to worry or care much about our suffering (as they see it). On the one hand I'm thankful they respect my views and aren't pains in the arse, but on the other hand I have to wonder if they really believe what they say they do or if they just don't care about us doomed folk.
 
and the answer is, they just don't care about you 'doomed folks'!

that being said missionaries are pests, especially the ones who use bribes..
and I have seen none use bribes except christians in under developed nations like they do in Africa, they go to schools and offer little children who if 'wealthy' pack their lunch in old heavy leaded news papers; with things like bikes.. (that is just sinking to an all time low).. on the other hand it is better than scientologists who ask you to dig deep to join them and then you end up a mysterious death in room 367.. hmm
 
I haven't spoken to a Jehovahs Witness in ages, but I'm not home during the day except on weekends so that might be why.

A long time before I became a Muslim I had a couple of them come to my door and proceeded to get into a debate with them. The one guy actually talked to me about all of my questions and was very friendly despite me trying to test him. The other guy never said a word either way. A few months later they came to the door again. The guy that didn't speak was the one in charge I'm assuming and he had another guy with him. As soon as he saw me he said he got the wrong door and left. I thought it was funny at the time.

Today if they would show up I wouldn't even engage in a discussion with them.
 
Pygoscelis said:
There certainly are missionaries of all faiths, including "missionary atheists" (not sure the term is appropriate) who seek to bring everyone away from faith and to reason (as they see it).

I still remain conflicted though. I do see the conflict within missionary types. They really want to help me and are willing to make an arse of themselves to make the attempt. It shows they care... in a warped sort of way.

I actually wonder about the moderate religious people who claim they also believe us "unsaved" are going to be tortured forever and ever but don't seem to worry or care much about our suffering (as they see it). On the one hand I'm thankful they respect my views and aren't pains in the arse, but on the other hand I have to wonder if they really believe what they say they do or if they just don't care about us doomed folk.
Click to expand...

hola,

i would not really use the word 'missionary' with any group outside of Christianity since it has a specific meaning... just like i would not equate our word martyr with the islamic concept of shaheed, as it is often done. still, i think proselytism is just as strong if not stronger with other ideologies including atheism. atheists like to tell themselves that their beliefs against the existance of God and their secular morals are all fundamental 'common ground' that we all can agree on.

how is that attitude any different than other religions? in a desire to make us further understand just how correct their beliefs are the atheists i have encountered try to corner people of faith into justifying their beliefs, but quickly the other perspective is lost since it does not go the way the atheist planned. then it is just like everything else, harassing conversations, baiting, argument from sheer ignorance, lack of listening, not allowing you to change the subject etc.

i think they are some of the worst offenders, but they try to couch the language of their activities in such a way that they can't be considered a proselytising ideology that has yet to establish it's own validity.

que Dios te bendiga