more questions :)
- Thread starter caroline
- Start date
- Replies 35
- Views 6K
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Halal Food Gastronomy | vBulletin 4 php 8.0 patch
- Status
Malaikah
IB Legend
- Messages
- 6,351
- Reaction score
- 907
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Islam
Yes, that is the punishment.
Please note that although the punishment is severe, the requirements that must be meet before anyone can be stoned to death are very strict:
Zina can only be proven by the testimony of four men who see the act take place with their own eyes, and see the male private part enter the female private part, or by the unforced confession of the man or woman who committed zina.
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=8980&ln=eng
(I edited that a little to make it less explicit, and zina means adultery).
And obvious the adulters can only be sentences by relevant authority.
‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) said, when he was sitting on the minbar of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with the truth, and revealed to him the Book. One of the things that He revealed was the verse of stoning, which we have read and understood. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) carried out the punishment of stoning and we did so after him. I fear that as time goes by, people will say, ‘We do not find any mention of stoning in the Book of Allaah,’ so they will go astray by forsaking an obligation that was revealed by Allaah. In the Book of Allaah, stoning is the punishment deserved by any previously-married person, man or woman, who commits adultery, if proof is established, or pregnancy results, or he or she confesses.”
(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2462; Muslim, 1691)
(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2462; Muslim, 1691)
Please note that although the punishment is severe, the requirements that must be meet before anyone can be stoned to death are very strict:
Zina can only be proven by the testimony of four men who see the act take place with their own eyes, and see the male private part enter the female private part, or by the unforced confession of the man or woman who committed zina.
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=8980&ln=eng
(I edited that a little to make it less explicit, and zina means adultery).
And obvious the adulters can only be sentences by relevant authority.
Last edited:
assalamu alaykhum,
Imaam Ahmad said: “Yazeed ibn Haaroon told us that Jareer told us that Saleem ibn ‘Aamir told us, from Abu Umaamah that a young man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: ‘O Messenger of Allaah, grant me permission to commit zinaa.’ The people turned to him and told him off, saying, ‘Ssh!’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Come closer,’ so he came closer. He told him, ‘Sit down,’ so he sat down. He asked him, ‘Would you like this for your mother?’ He said, ‘No, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. May Allaah cause me to be sacrificed for you!’ He said: ‘No people would like it for their mothers.’ He asked him, ‘Would you like this for your daughter?’ He said, ‘No, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. May Allaah cause me to be sacrificed for you!’ He said: ‘No people would like it for their daughters.’ He asked him, ‘Would you like this for your sister?’ He said, ‘No, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. May Allaah cause me to be sacrificed for you!’ He said: ‘No people would like it for their sisters.’ He asked him, ‘Would you like this for your paternal aunt?’ He said, ‘No, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. May Allaah cause me to be sacrificed for you!’ He said: ‘No people would like it for their paternal aunts.’ He asked him, ‘Would you like this for your maternal aunt?’ He said, ‘No, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. May Allaah cause me to be sacrificed for you!’ He said: ‘No people would like it for their maternal aunts.’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) put his hand on him and said: ‘O Allaah, forgive him his sin, purify his heart and make him chaste.’ After that, the young man never paid attention to anything of that nature.”
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And those who invoke not any other god along with Allaah, not kill such life as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse – and whoever does this shall receive the punishment. The torment shall be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace; except those who repent and believe, and do righteous deeds, for those, Allaah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds, then verily, he repents towards Allaah with sincere repentance.” [al-Furqaan 25:68-71]
Imaam Ahmad said: “Yazeed ibn Haaroon told us that Jareer told us that Saleem ibn ‘Aamir told us, from Abu Umaamah that a young man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: ‘O Messenger of Allaah, grant me permission to commit zinaa.’ The people turned to him and told him off, saying, ‘Ssh!’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Come closer,’ so he came closer. He told him, ‘Sit down,’ so he sat down. He asked him, ‘Would you like this for your mother?’ He said, ‘No, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. May Allaah cause me to be sacrificed for you!’ He said: ‘No people would like it for their mothers.’ He asked him, ‘Would you like this for your daughter?’ He said, ‘No, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. May Allaah cause me to be sacrificed for you!’ He said: ‘No people would like it for their daughters.’ He asked him, ‘Would you like this for your sister?’ He said, ‘No, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. May Allaah cause me to be sacrificed for you!’ He said: ‘No people would like it for their sisters.’ He asked him, ‘Would you like this for your paternal aunt?’ He said, ‘No, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. May Allaah cause me to be sacrificed for you!’ He said: ‘No people would like it for their paternal aunts.’ He asked him, ‘Would you like this for your maternal aunt?’ He said, ‘No, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. May Allaah cause me to be sacrificed for you!’ He said: ‘No people would like it for their maternal aunts.’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) put his hand on him and said: ‘O Allaah, forgive him his sin, purify his heart and make him chaste.’ After that, the young man never paid attention to anything of that nature.”
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And those who invoke not any other god along with Allaah, not kill such life as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse – and whoever does this shall receive the punishment. The torment shall be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace; except those who repent and believe, and do righteous deeds, for those, Allaah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds, then verily, he repents towards Allaah with sincere repentance.” [al-Furqaan 25:68-71]
chosen
Esteemed Member
- Messages
- 137
- Reaction score
- 15
I think that to compare the laws of secular society to religious laws set down by a prophet is unfair..their can be no comparrison..if you are muslim you consider the laws and punishments of islam to be god sent..therfore, they are in a class all their own..so please dont try to justify cpital punishment in any religion..to the acts of a secular society not basing their punishments on religious laws..if you believe in islam and believe their punishments are just..just say so..you are entitled to your opinions without having to justify them..
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
Men as in humans or men as in males? If the latter, why can't women testify?
snakelegs
IB Legend
- Messages
- 5,742
- Reaction score
- 1,199
sorry to go off topic here but is it offensive to people that i don't capitalize God, Allah etc? i never capitalize anything unless i am seeking emphasis, but if it's offensive to people, i will make an effort to correct this.
Malaikah
IB Legend
- Messages
- 6,351
- Reaction score
- 907
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Islam
It might be humans but I don't know.
If it is the latter, then I'm not complaining- it just means it makes it even harder to convict someone.
But I don't know which it is.
I am confused here. The command to stone adulterers is certainly not in the quran. it is reported in hadith that it was there before, but was removed - is that correct? so although it is not in the quran now we must believe it was there previously and act as if it is still there.....is that correct?
Malaikah
IB Legend
- Messages
- 6,351
- Reaction score
- 907
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Islam
That is what I understood from the hadith- that the verses where removed by the command remains but I can't give you a certain answer on that. Perhaps someone else is more knowledgeable about it.
- Qatada -
Spread this Avatar!
- Messages
- 11,349
- Reaction score
- 2,692
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
:salamext:
This thread might be abit relevant insha Allah:
http://www.islamicboard.com/miscellaneous/43987-stoning-death-its-effect-me.html
The punishment of stoning is the hadd punishment for the married adulterer, which essentially entails that it functions exclusively as a deterrent. Here's why. To apply this punishment you need four witnesses to the actual act of penetration who observed it from four different angles and if there is even the slightest contradiction in the most minute details of their testimony, they are punished with eighty lashes for false accusation of adultery. Thus, the implementation of the hadd punishment for zina is a practical impossibility.
As the fatwâ committee under the supervision of Shaykh 'Abdul-Wahâb At-Turaryrî notes:
In spite of all this, if the impossibility became reality and the punishment were to be carried out, then how would it be done? For the person who is convicted of such a heinous licentious act they would be placed in a pit and pelted to death while covered by a cloth so that their 'awrah is not exposed. If it is by confession and not conviction, they would have the opportunity to retract their confession at any point in time and so they would not be placed in a pit. No one is allowed to curse the person who undergoes this or express pleasure.
For the reasons outlined above, it is evident that whatever movie you have seen could by no stretch of the imagination be construed as Islamic, as this punishment is a practical impossibility and even then would never occur in the manner described.
This thread might be abit relevant insha Allah:
http://www.islamicboard.com/miscellaneous/43987-stoning-death-its-effect-me.html
The punishment of stoning is the hadd punishment for the married adulterer, which essentially entails that it functions exclusively as a deterrent. Here's why. To apply this punishment you need four witnesses to the actual act of penetration who observed it from four different angles and if there is even the slightest contradiction in the most minute details of their testimony, they are punished with eighty lashes for false accusation of adultery. Thus, the implementation of the hadd punishment for zina is a practical impossibility.
As the fatwâ committee under the supervision of Shaykh 'Abdul-Wahâb At-Turaryrî notes:
It is not enough for four people to show up at court and give testimony. The witnesses and their backgrounds have to be carefully scrutinized by the courts to determine their trustworthiness and honesty. They have to be able to demonstrate that they saw the crime. It is not easy to explain how one was able to witness such an act without being guilty of any wrongdoing oneself. The witnesses have to see actual sexual penetration. This is not an easy thing to explain.
If the condition of four witnesses of determined trustworthiness is not fulfilled, each of those who accused the person of adultery is given 80 lashes with a whip as the punishment for bearing false witness.
Allah says: “And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations), flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.” [Sûrah al-Nûr: 4]
The punishments for fornication and adultery are designed more to protect society from the open practice of licentious sexual behavior than they are designed to punish people.
It is nearly impossible to get a conviction for adultery except in a case where it is carried out in public for all eyes to see. With this threat of severe punishment, people will keep their evil deeds concealed and society as a whole will be protected.
It is worth noting that in the 1400 years of Islamic history, these stringent conditions have never been met even once. And due to the deterrent effect, sexual immorality is suffocated and eradicated in an Islamic society.If the condition of four witnesses of determined trustworthiness is not fulfilled, each of those who accused the person of adultery is given 80 lashes with a whip as the punishment for bearing false witness.
Allah says: “And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations), flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.” [Sûrah al-Nûr: 4]
The punishments for fornication and adultery are designed more to protect society from the open practice of licentious sexual behavior than they are designed to punish people.
It is nearly impossible to get a conviction for adultery except in a case where it is carried out in public for all eyes to see. With this threat of severe punishment, people will keep their evil deeds concealed and society as a whole will be protected.
In spite of all this, if the impossibility became reality and the punishment were to be carried out, then how would it be done? For the person who is convicted of such a heinous licentious act they would be placed in a pit and pelted to death while covered by a cloth so that their 'awrah is not exposed. If it is by confession and not conviction, they would have the opportunity to retract their confession at any point in time and so they would not be placed in a pit. No one is allowed to curse the person who undergoes this or express pleasure.
For the reasons outlined above, it is evident that whatever movie you have seen could by no stretch of the imagination be construed as Islamic, as this punishment is a practical impossibility and even then would never occur in the manner described.
thirdwatch512
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 480
- Reaction score
- 33
Quran
- Come not near to adultery ---- 17: 32;
- The adulterer and adulteress, flog them 100 lashes - let it be witnessed - do not let pity for them
cause you to disobey Allah, if you believe in Allah and Last Day --- 24: 2;
- Adulterer can only marry adulteress - adulteress can only marry adulterer or idolater - all that
forbidden to believers -- 24: 3;
- Cannot accuse women without 4 witnesses -- 24: 4;
- Nor commit adultery - whoso does this shall pay the penalty - the doom shall be doubled for him on
Day of Judgment save him who repent, believe and do righteous works - for such Allah will change
their evil deeds for good deeds --- 25: 68-70;
- If believing women come to take Oath of Allegiance swearing they will not --- nor commit
adultery ---60: 12;
Hadiths
- If a man finds another committing adultery with his wife, should he kill him? No.B1-248-415, B6-242-269"
- Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) ordered stoning to death of Jews who committed adultery B2-231-413,
B9-475-633
- Prophet’s (Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) dream about hell and what happens to adulterers B2-262-468
- Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu) lashed a man who committed adultery B3-271-CH
- Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) deputise another to stone adulteress to death if she confessed
B3-292-508
- One does not have perfect faith while committing adultery. B3-394-655
- Go to the wife of this man and stone her to death B3-535-860, B9-232-303
- One who did not worship anyone besides Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) will go to heaven even if he committed adultery B4-296-445
- Be afraid of Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) - Do not deflower me illegally - the three men in the cave B4-446-671
- An adulterer is not a believer while committing adultery B7-339-484, M1-39-104
- The adultery of the eyes - gazing at forbidden things B8-171-260; 609, M4-1397-6421
- The adultery of the tongue - is the talk B8-171-260; 609, M4-1397-6421
- The innerself wishes and desires. B8-171-260; 609, M4-1397-6421
- Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’ala) has written for man his share of adultery B8-397-609, M4-1397-6421
- Man tells Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) that he committed adultery. Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) turns his face. Man repeats. Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) says if he is insane, then orders stoning to death B7-147-196
- A married adulterer should be stoned to death M3-898-4152
- The adultery of hand, legs and mouth AD2-577-2148
- The third gravest sin AD2-629-2303
I think this site where I got this from(http://www.quran-hadith-index.com/) is not distinguishing the difference between a fornicator and adulterer. A fornicator is one who is not married and has sex with someone else who is non married. (Which is VERY prominent here in the west.) The punishment for that(according to Islam) is 100 lashes.
Adultery is a married person who cheats on his/her spouse with another married person. The punishment for that(there must be 4 witnesses) is death by stoning.
Scary indeed!
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
No it's not. It's hidden, no one can see it but that doesn't mean it's gone.
A question: can someone divorce their partner on grounds of adultery without the 4 witnesses (but with other evidence)?
- Qatada -
Spread this Avatar!
- Messages
- 11,349
- Reaction score
- 2,692
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
When illegal sexual activity is hidden from the masses, then that protects the act/sin from becoming public - which means that there is less sexual promiscuity among the people in general - so there is less corruption.
Al-Li'an;
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=24&tid=35538
It would be better if you asked a scholar or student of knowledge about Al-Li'an in depth.
Regards.
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
This section kinda bothers me.:X
- Qatada -
Spread this Avatar!
- Messages
- 11,349
- Reaction score
- 2,692
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
If either party is lying, the wrath of Allah would be open them - male or female.
It's quite annoying how you want to nit pick everything. Seriously, get over it man.
Regards.
It's quite annoying how you want to nit pick everything. Seriously, get over it man.
Regards.
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
nitpick - be overly critical; criticize minor details
the section I posted IMHO is no detail...
But I'll drop it.
- Qatada -
Spread this Avatar!
- Messages
- 11,349
- Reaction score
- 2,692
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
By the way, if you do want to be critical - then again, this is what Ibn Kathir said, he's a man, he is fallible. So again, if you were to criticize his stance on what he said: "The wrath of Allah is mentioned specially in the case of the woman" - then you are criticizing his opinion, and that's all.
Regards.
Malaikah
IB Legend
- Messages
- 6,351
- Reaction score
- 907
- Gender
- Female
- Religion
- Islam
Why does it bother you? It is just saying that most men are unlikely to accuse their wives of adultery unless they are sure. Or do you disagree? Do you think many men would accuse their of adultery even if they are unsure?
Last edited:
- Status