more questions :)

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The point is people should FEAR allah swt and his WRATH.

That is something NOT to be taken lightly and if someone who has lost his/her faith or fear of Allah swt and misuses and/or oppresses others whether its their husband/wife, children, neighbours, or even another human being

Then THEY WILL have to answer Allah swt on the day of Judgement whether or not they believe now.

ON that day everybody will be believers. So don't think for one second you will have the Audacity to stand infront of the creator and LIE or question ANYTHING for that matter.

Allah swt knows everything - he knows your intentions and knows what in your hearts - you can fool yourself and others but you cannot fool your Creator.

So remember Allah swt much and Fear Allah swt much.

:w:
 
Whatsthepoint said:
Men as in humans or men as in males? If the latter, why can't women testify?
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This can be a way to make this punishment difficult to practice!!!

Since such laws apply only to Land under Islamic Law & in Muslim Lands finding 4 male witnesses is almost impossible.

In WEST open fornication is relatively much more common BUT these rules don't apply there.
 
Islam maintained that punishment for married person(adultory) for a period of time BUT finally punishment was changed to 100 lashes for both married & un-married.
Click to expand...


Brother, please - maybe the scholars are called people of knowledge because they have dedicated their whole lives to gaining it?


Note:FIRST READ THIS ARTICLE (*)

Some of the hadith that talk about the verse on stoning...


Saheeh Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him."



Saheeh Muslim Book 017, Number 4194:

'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.


Christian missionaries tend to argue that this verse was taken out and Muslims corrupted the Quran. Lets see if this argument holds any water.
The alleged verse is...
الشيخ والشيخة إذا زنيا فارجموهما البتة
The old man and the old lady if they committed adultery then stone them



Another opinion is that it is...

الشيخ والشيخة إذا زنيا فارجموهما البتة نكالا من الله والله عزيز حكيم

The old man and the old lady if they committed adultery then stone them as a punishment from Allah and Allah is the Most Mighty, Most Wise

Imam ibn Hajar Al Asqalani has in his commentary...

فقال عمر : لما نزلت أتيت النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقلت أكتبها ؟ فكأنه كره ذلك , فقال عمر : ألا ترى أن الشيخ إذا زنى ولم يحصن جلد , وأن الشاب إذا زنى وقد أحصن رجم
Umar said: “When this verse came down I approached the Prophet peace be upon him so I asked him ‘Should I write it down?’ It is as if he hated that” Then Umar said: “Cant you see that if the old man if he commits adultery he does not get the whip, and that if the young man if he commits adultery he gets stoned?” (Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani, Fathul Bari, Commentary on Hadith no. 6327, Source)



Here we clearly see that the Prophet did not want the verse to be written down because it was never meant to be part of the text of the Quran. The scholars of Islam are unanimous that the recitation of this verse has been abrogated but its ruling still remains in effect.



However, the only reason why Umar got emotional and wanted to put the verse in the Quran was because he was afraid that one day people would think that its ruling has been cancelled. However, the companions did not allow him to because they all knew that its recitation was abrogated. In order to put a verse in the Quran there needed to be two witnesses and Umar was all by himself. Umar himself knew that its recitation got abrogated but he was getting emotional for he feared that people in the future would not believe in the ruling of stoning the adulterers.



Imam ibn Hajar Al Asqalani has in his commentary...

أي في الآية المذكورة التي نسخت تلاوتها وبقي حكمها , وقد وقع ما خشيه عمر أيضا فأنكر الرجم طائفة من الخوارج أو معظمهم وبعض المعتزلة

In the verse whose recitation has been abrogated but its ruling remained, and it has happened what Umar feared. A tribe from the Khawarij or most of them and some of the Mu’tazilites rejected the stoning.

وقد أخرج عبد الرزاق والطبري من وجه آخر عن ابن عباس أن عمر قال " سيجيء قوم يكذبون بالرجم"
And it was reported by Abd al Razzaq and Al Tabari from another view that Ibn Abbas said that Umar said “There will come a people that will lie (or disbelieve) in the stoning” (Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani, Fathul Bari, Commentary on Hadith no. 6328, Source)



Imam Nawawi says in his commentary in Saheeh Muslim...
وهذا مما نسخ لفظه وبقي حكمه
And this is whose recitation has been abrogated and its ruling remained.

وفي ترك الصحابة كتابة هذه الآية دلالة ظاهرة أن المنسوخ لا يكتب في المصحف , وفي إعلان عمر بالرجم وهو على المنبر وسكوت الصحابة وغيرهم من الحاضرين عن مخالفته بالإنكار دليل على ثبوت الرجم

And the companions of the Prophet abandoning the writing of this verse is clear evidence that the abrogated should not be written in the Quran and that Umar's statement about the stoning as he is on the pulpit and the silence of the companions and other than them from who were present from opposing him is evidence about the ruling of the stoning (still being implemented) (Imam Nawawi, Sharh Saheeh Muslim, Commentary on Hadith no. 3201, Source)


Al Sindi says in his commentary on Sunan Ibn Majah…

أي آية الرجم وهذه الآية مما نسخ لفظها وبقي حكمها

The verse of stoning: Its recitation has been abrogated and its ruling still remains in effect. (Al Sindi, Sharh Sunan Ibn Majah, Commentary on Hadith no. 2543, Source)

A'awn Ma’abood says in his commentary on Sunan Abu Dawud…

وهذا مما نسخ لفظه وبقي حكمه

And this is whose recitation has been abrogated but ruling remains in effect. (Muhammad Shams al-Haqq al-Adhim Abadi, Awn al-Mabud Sharh Sunan Abu Dawud, Commentary on Hadith no. 3835, Source)




Conclusion​

​
We can clearly see that it was a consensus amongst the companions of the Prophet that the recitation of the verse on stoning was abrogated. They did not corrupt it. How can all the companions of the Prophet who sacrificed everything they had for this religion just happened to decide to come together and purposely corrupt the Quran by removing this verse? What motive could they have? I mean they still implemented it. So it cant be a motive to remove it so that they won't follow its law anymore.
So clearly the evidence shows that this recitation was always meant to be abrogated but its ruling still remains in effect.

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_d...&section=memberbase&subsection=memberarticles



​
These scholars who are held in an extremely high esteem, by many muslims - by the majority of the Muslims (sunnis, even sufis praise them.)


As we can see, 'Umar - the companion of the Messenger of Allah, the 2nd best man from this Ummah even believed that the ruling remained in effect. Whoever says they are more knowledgeable than 'Umar, then know that this will open the doorway to a deviant path. Since the correct path is of the Messenger of Allah, and the understanding of his companions.
 
sur said:
This can be a way to make this punishment difficult to practice!!!

Since such laws apply only to Land under Islamic Law & in Muslim Lands finding 4 male witnesses is almost impossible.

In WEST open fornication is relatively much more common BUT these rules don't apply there.
Click to expand...
It may come as a surprise but not even in the deviated west a lot of married people will have sex in front of 4 males...
 
Malaikah said:
It is not about 'they', it is about 'He'- Allah. It is Allah who choose that verse be taken out, not only this one, but others also.
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i find this whole thing utterly confusing. :uhwhat
what were other verses that were "taken out"?
 
I did say at the beginning of that article that you should click on the above link before reading the article. Anyway, this is what the brother mentioned in the article:



One may also ask, what is the wisdom behind abrogating the recitation of a verse but upholding its injunction? (e.g. verse on stoning)

This is because the Sunnah is just like the Quran, both are revelations. The Sunnah is also the actual law, and this being a test to those who claim to believe in Allah: they must believe in the Sunnah too and that it takes place of the Quran in many areas. See this article for proof of following Sunnah.

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=570&section=memberbase&subsection=myarticle

​




This then proves the importance of the Sunnah, and how important it is in our religion. We can ask countlessly why the recitation was removed, and why the ruling remained - however, this is through the wisdom of Allah.
 
Malaikah said:
It is not about 'they', it is about 'He'- Allah. It is Allah who choose that verse be taken out, not only this one, but others also.
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But why?

The punishment for adultery in your religion is death. There was once a verse about it in the qu'ran too. But for some reason, it was taken out.. Like the author did not want it in there. According to you, there were others also.

So why? I mean why not just leave it in there?
 
Read before any further question!!!

Could you please read the posts 27 & 28? You will get answer to all your questions, if not ask me and I'll answer you. But only after you read my posts 27 & 28.
Thanks

thirdwatch512 said:
But why?

The punishment for adultery in your religion is death. There was once a verse about it in the qu'ran too. But for some reason, it was taken out.. Like the author did not want it in there. According to you, there were others also.

So why? I mean why not just leave it in there?
Click to expand...
 
sur said:
that "Reason" was to change the law. New law is what is in Quran.

U know Quran was revealed bit by bit , like prohibition of alcohol took after a while Prophet Muhammad(saww) was given prophethood. Similarly Qibla was Bait-ul-Mukdas for a while as a test then CHANGED back to Kabba.

Similarly law of adultory was stoning 1st for married, then it was changed.
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but everything about alcohol can still be found in the Quraan. not the same about stoning! do you think Allah is so powerless that when he says he will protect Quraan from alteration then does not?

or when he says when he abrogates something or causes it it be forgotten, replaces it with something better (when He makes you forget you don't remember, if you do then it is very odd indeed!)


Islam is continuation of religion of hazrat Aadam Alahisalam., if this site was not populated by ignorants and run largely by illiterates, I would tell you more but since it is, they'll just delete any Muslim post that looks better than theirs
 
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