My Shaykh Vs. Your Shaykh

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Truth must be told, that we as Muslims tend to at times act in ways that blatantly contradict the teachings of Islam as put forth in the Quran and Sunnah. If you go through YouTube or message boards across the Internet, you will not have a hard time finding Muslims attacking each other over their differences in opinions. Sadly, you will also not find it very difficult to find young Muslims who have not spent in the big picture much time getting educated in the Tradition, with such audacity and shamelessness, attacking scholars from the past and present, because they hold different opinions than the scholars they hold in high regard. It seems to be the case that if you like Imam Ibn Taymiyyah, then you must attack Imam Al Ghazali. If you prefer Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen, then to you Shaykh Al Qaradawi must have a large “X” in red ink on him. If you listen to Shaykh Bilal Philips, then you automatically must avoid Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. It’s as if the scholars must be put in a boxing ring or an octagon to fight each other, and one of them MUST come out on top. While they’re fighting, the supporters of one must have their signs with big letters showing their support for “their” Shaykh, while chanting for the destruction of the “enemy of Islam” that’s in the opposite corner.


Unfortunately, it doesn’t just end with how I just described it. There are also the lies that are perpetuated about each scholar on the tongues of the crowd in opposition. Statements are usually taken out of context so a point can be made about the deviance of this scholar or the ignorance of the other. I remember having heard and read statements attributed to Shaykh Bin Bazz and Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen, which were used to show the “ridiculous nature of their thought process”. I went and searched for the audio recording of the lectures where these statements were made, and NOT to my surprise, how these statements were taken out of context and perpetuated was completely antithetical to what these scholars were saying. On the other hand, there are the outright lies being promoted about Shaykh Abdullah Bin Bayyah and Shaykh Hamza Yusuf that are set up in a way to make them come across to the regular Muslim as “Sufi” and “deviant”. Again, being that in this case I didn’t search for any audio recording and I actually have sat with them face to face, what is being spread about them wasn’t even something taken out of context, but it was rather a straight up and flat out LIE.


In Islam, it’s forbidden to gamble. But if I were to use it metaphorically here, I’m betting that if any of the people that spread falsities about any of the scholars, past or present, are asked to provide their evidence, or at least their source, they will say that they heard it from someone. OK! Let’s go to that someone. Where did they get their information about the so-called “deviance” of such and such scholar? The response will typically be that they heard it from someone else. Fine! Where did that someone else get their information from? Most likely, if you go far enough, you’ll find that they got it from some message board, or some YouTube clip, where it’s someone claiming that a particular scholar says so and so, and therefore be warned and don’t listen to them or read their writings for they will lead you astray. Again, no “direct” evidence will be provided. All of it is just hearsay that is being spread around as “truth”.


You know what’s interesting? The Prophet peace be upon him said:

كفى بالمرء كذبا أن يحدث بكل ما سمع

It’s enough for a person to lie to tell everything they hear


This means that all these people spreading what they “heard” can officially be considered LIERS according to Islamic Law, which means their witness can never be accepted and if they happen to be students of Sacred Knowledge, anything they transmit from the Tradition can’t be accepted either because they’re not trustworthy individuals.


I’ve had several conversations with many Muslims in the past few months where at times a name of a Muslim scholar will be dropped and all of a sudden faces change. Reason for that is because of something the person heard about this prominent figure where they should be warned about him. Before your mind goes too far, I’m not singling out a particular person here. For example, some Muslims have a problem with Imam Ibn Taymiyyah for certain opinions they heard he had through someone telling it to them. On the other hand, other Muslims will have a problem with Imam Al Ghazali because of what they heard about him through someone else. Nowadays, we have Muslims having a major problem with scholars like Shaykh Bin Bayyah and Shaykh Al Qaradawi, while others have a major problem with scholars like Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen and Shaykh Bin Bazz and Shaykh Al Albani. All of this is typically because they were basically instructed and told that they should have a problem with these scholars, and unfortunately without much consideration they just went ahead and followed the instructions.


When it comes to North America, if you’re a so-called Salafi, and by that I mean you attribute yourself to the way of the Salaf even though you’re violating many of their principles, you’re supposed to have a problem with Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. On the other hand, if you’re a so-called Sufi, and by that I mean you’re being labeled as such by some people because you attend events where Shaykh Hamza Yusuf speaks and teaches, you’re supposed to have a problem with Shaykh Bilal Philips. In all of these cases, the anti-this Shaykh or that Shaykh attitude is more often than not based on having heard something from someone about the Shaykh saying this or that. Well, here is a small little reminder I tell myself before I tell it to others. God says in the Quran:
يا أيها الذين آمنوا إن جاءكم فاسق بنبأ فتبينوا – سورة الحجرات 6

O’ you who believe, if a profligate comes to you with a news then confirm it – Surah Al Hujurat 6


What’s interesting about the above verse is that the word na’ba’ (نبأ) in Arabic is only used when the news being told is in fact true as far as the deliverer believes it to be. Yet in the verse God is describing the one bringing forth this news, which is used to cause a problem (you can refer to the exegesis of Imam Al Qurtubi to get the full story behind the revelation of this verse), to be a profligate and a liar.
OK then, with that in mind, I make it a consistent practice to first ask the question: did you get this information directly from the scholar in question, or did you just hear it from someone else? Because I personally have lost count of how many times I’ve heard Muslims say something about a particular scholar or public figure, and I found it to be a complete LIE. If it’s a scholar from the past, I go and get the full text where the particular statement in question was taken from and I read it in context. Sure enough, he was saying something other than what this profligate was claiming about him. If it’s a contemporary scholar, I try to get to them directly if it’s really important, or I’ll try to get a full recording to hear everything that was said by them. Again, it turns out to be them saying something other than what this profligate is trying to say they said.


We live in an age when the narration of the Prophet peace be upon him mentions that:
يحدث المرء الكذب فيبلغ الآفاق

A person will tell a lie and it will reach the horizons


All one needs to spread a lie about anyone is to literally get online and within seconds it will reach the opposite side of the globe. It just seems that many haven’t really paid attention to that. Worse yet, they themselves will participate in spreading the lie by taking it and re-telling it without realizing what they’re actually doing, which can only be a result of extreme heedlessness over their actions.


It’s very hypocritical of us Muslims to speak of how some individuals take things out of context and don’t understand what is meant by a particular narration in the Tradition, and that they should be asking and inquiring before issuing judgments on us, when at the same time that’s exactly what we do with each other.

But let’s say that it happened to be true that a particular scholar or public figure had a maverick opinion that deviated from the majority, or just was equally valid but different from what you learned. So what? According to the Sunni position, no one after the Prophet peace be upon him is infallible, which means that absolutely everyone will be bound to falling into some mistakes. The learned will obviously make fewer mistakes than the ignorant, but they will still make them. Imam Ibn Taymiyyah had certain positions which went against the consensus of the scholars and were rejected. Does that mean that as a scholar he should be disregarded? That’s an extreme position that is unbefitting for the community of the Prophet peace be upon him. We have people that treat scholars in two extreme ways; they’re either infallible and what they say is the ultimate truth and they don’t make mistakes, or they’re completely deviant and they’re the cause for the problems of the Muslims nowadays.


How arrogant can one be?

Some have taken it upon themselves to judge major scholars like Imam Ibn Taymiyyah and Imam Al Ghazali, when in fact these “judges” don’t qualify to lead the prayer in congregation, let alone speak on the status of these scholars. On the other hand, some have elevated some scholars to levels unbefitting for them, and I truly believe that if these scholars were to come nowadays, they would beat those people elevating them to this infallibility status with a stick. Muslims wonder why the state of the Ummah is the way it is – this is why. It’s the lack of respect to some scholars and fanatical attachment to particular scholars to the point of discounting and disregarding everyone else. Just because you like Imam Ibn Taymiyyah, that doesn’t give you the right to insult Imam Al Ghazali, and the opposite is equally true.


The Prophet peace be upon him said:
الحكمة ضالة المومن أنى وجدها فهي له

Wisdom is the lost property of the believer; wherever they find it it’s theirs


This narration means that even if an Atheist says something wise, as a Muslim I can take it and apply it, and that’s someone who might have 98% of what they say be rejected, but that other 2%, if it’s good, as a Muslim I have a right to it, and I will take it. What about our scholars? These are people who had 98% of what they said be good. Unfortunately, because we like to personalize everything, and we “enjoy” character assassinations, if a scholar held unorthodox views in 2% of what they said, we’re more than willing to throw that and the 98% of good out to the ocean, and follow that with spitting at it.
It’s getting really annoying when I hear someone always talk about the maverick positions of Imam Ibn Taymiyyah, or those of Imam Al Ghazali, etc. If you took a little bit of time to look at how the scholars dealt with each other’s maverick opinions, it was always in beautiful discourse that sought excuses for each other by saying things like: may be the Shaykh missed this, or may be the Shaykh meant this other thing. They acted upon the narration of the Prophet peace be upon him:
التمس العذر لأخيك ولو سبعين مرة

Seek the excuse for your brother/sister even if it’s for 70 times


But nowadays, it’s NOT even scholars that are doing the criticism. It’s Muslims that are not educated in the Tradition, fanatical in their views, emotional in their attachment to particular scholars, arrogant in their attitudes, and unmannered in their discourse who seem to feel that they for some reason have the authority to even speak, let alone judge scholars and teachers that spent 20 to 70 years of their lives dedicated to studying the Tradition.


I think it’s time for these people to wake up and smell the qahwa!


Not everyone will have similar inclinations, and that’s the Divine wisdom in having different types of scholars. God made some people have more of a soft spot in their heart for Imam Ibn Taymiyyah’s character, while for others it was Imam Al Ghazali’s. It’s the nature of the world to have these difference, and Islam is big enough to envelop both types of scholars as well as others.
It’s upon the lay Muslims to understand that and to just realize that all these scholars have served Islam more than they have and to show them the respect they deserve, and to stop labeling them with negative labels to demean their legacy by calling this one a so-called “Sufi” as a way to say they had problematic issues in their theology, and that one a “deviant” as a means of insult because they held some unorthodox position in a certain issue. God says in the Quran:
ولا تنابزوا بالالقاب بيس الاسم الفسوق بعد الايمان – الحجرات 11

And do not call each other with negative names, becoming a profligate is a bad name after faith – Surah Al Hujurat 11
 
There's no my Shaykh, there's no your Shaykh. They are our Shaykh.
 
it would help to include source links bro

Assalamu Alaikum

I embed URLs on title head of any article posted(just in case you don't know:threads either rejected or edited by mods if I don't provide links).Insha'Allah it helps next time.

God Bless
 
But, other members do not know that the article title contains link if they do not move their cursor to the title.

:)
 
^^I didn't know that,Jazakallah Khayr for telling me.I do purposefully to make a post looks neat and easy to read,also it less time consuming.(sshhh don't tell anyone,I am not an Intellectual like these guys,what I admire is what I share here)
 
After reading the post it has become clear that there are a few issues with the post itself. The average reader perhaps may be unaware of some of the issues but it isnt as the writer of the original article states. It is NOT a matter of my Shaykh vs your Shaykh! Its a matter of what is right and what is wrong and do we follow that personality that fell into error or is the truth most beloved to us than the personality and thus deserves to be followed. Comparing Uthaymeen to Ghazali is comparing apples to oranges. An the calling of Hamzah Yusef a Shaykh is also an error. The people have abandoned the principles of Islaam and championed personalities, they have have left is the pure creed of the prophet [alayhi salam] in exchange for philosophy and heretical beliefs not known by the Prophet [alayhi salam] nor his companions [ridhwaanullah alayhim] nor who came after them upon their way. No doubt, the Muslim who has aql [intellect] places the what Allah says and what His messenger [alayhi salam] says above the statement of any man. Indeed Imaam Maalik [rahimahullah] was most correct when he said, "kullun kalaami feehi maqbool wa mardood illa kalaam saahibu hadha al qabr: ya'nee an-nabee [alayhi salam], Everyones statement is either accepted or rejected EXCEPT the occupant of this grave! meaning the prophet [alayhi salam]. And because of this Ahlus Sunnah weighs the statements and actions of the people upon two scales. And those two scales are a text [either from the kitaab or sunnah and ijmaa [concensus] As for the nass [text] it is that which originates from the kitaab and the sunnah so whoever has with him a text from the kitaab or the AUTHENTIC sunnah then it is accepted from him and what ever opposes or contradicts the text or ijmaa then his statement or action is rejected or refuted. This Islaam is a religion based on text, based on evidence and proofs. When anyone from the children of Aadam opposes the texts and the ijmaa then we donot follow them no matter how attached we are to the personality. Al Haqq is more beloved to us than the personality of any individual. We adhere to the text and we worship Allah upon proofs and we make wuqoof [we do not proceed except with a text meaning we stop where the text stops]. We do not go any further and this is a proof of mutaba'ah [following the prophet (alayhi wa salam)] We obey him in that whih he commanded us and we believe in everything he narrated to us and we abstain and turn away from everything he prohibited us or forbade us and we do not worship Allah except with what he legislated.


The fact that the original article is from a sufi website needs to be known because sufism was not a practice of the prophet [alayhi salam] nor was it a practice of the companions [radhiya Allahu anhum] nor those who followed after them in beliefs, statements, actions, and understanding and implementation of the religion. Some of the individuals mentioned in this article have huge issues in their aqeedah and manhaj and they call the people to other than what Allah had revealed and beliefs other than the prophet alayhi salam believed or encouraged the believers to believe. So beware of this and take your religion from the scholars with proofs and evidences and abandon taking knowledge from personalities who just entertain you. Wa billahit-tawfeeq
 
:sl:

not all "Sufi" scholars follow in the footsteps of those who could be labeled Sufi of days long gone by. it isn't a matter of who vrs who, it's a matter of b'idah.
when it comes to innovation, we must be aware and be careful.

if you call yourself a "salafi" or a "sufi" or "wahaabi", you're not on the "straightest" path.

i'll take the instruction of Imam Ibn Taymiyyah, Shaykh Bin Bazz, Ibn Uthaymeen and Dr Bilal Philips, especially in regards to innovation, any day. it serves a purpose.

to the OP, one "doth protest to much", when one has something to worry about. innovation should worry you.

and Allahu Alam

ma Salaama
 
:sl:

The original post [and I skimmed it] is pretty awesome. Thank you for posting it.


An the calling of Hamzah Yusef a Shaykh is also an error.

GK9FG-1.jpg


The people have abandoned the principles of Islaam and championed personalities, they have have left is the pure creed of the prophet [alayhi salam] in exchange for philosophy and heretical beliefs not known by the Prophet [alayhi salam] nor his companions [ridhwaanullah alayhim] nor who came after them upon their way. No doubt, the Muslim who has aql [intellect] places the what Allah says and what His messenger [alayhi salam] says above the statement of any man. Indeed Imaam Maalik [rahimahullah] was most correct when he said, "kullun kalaami feehi maqbool wa mardood illa kalaam saahibu hadha al qabr: ya'nee an-nabee [alayhi salam], Everyones statement is either accepted or rejected EXCEPT the occupant of this grave! meaning the prophet [alayhi salam]. And because of this Ahlus Sunnah weighs the statements and actions of the people upon two scales. And those two scales are a text [either from the kitaab or sunnah and ijmaa [concensus] As for the nass [text] it is that which originates from the kitaab and the sunnah so whoever has with him a text from the kitaab or the AUTHENTIC sunnah then it is accepted from him and what ever opposes or contradicts the text or ijmaa then his statement or action is rejected or refuted.

Are you the only one or is the group you tend to follow the only group that agrees on this? I really don't get when you guys keep saying this over and over as if you're the ONLY ones, out of the entire ummah, that agrees on this point? Like are you serious? Are the scholars who disagree with you by default 'abandoned the principles of Islam' and are dishonest somehow to the Qur'an and Sunnah? Like are you seriously accusing other Muslims, passively, that they're not honest to Allah?

How arrogant must a people be to claim that all truth resides with them, and anyone who disagrees has deviated. May Allah protect us.

This Islaam is a religion based on text, based on evidence and proofs. When anyone from the children of Aadam opposes the texts and the ijmaa then we donot follow them no matter how attached we are to the personality. Al Haqq is more beloved to us than the personality of any individual. We adhere to the text and we worship Allah upon proofs and we make wuqoof [we do not proceed except with a text meaning we stop where the text stops]. We do not go any further and this is a proof of mutaba'ah [following the prophet (alayhi wa salam)] We obey him in that whih he commanded us and we believe in everything he narrated to us and we abstain and turn away from everything he prohibited us or forbade us and we do not worship Allah except with what he legislated.

Not sure why you keep going on about this. I don't think any Muslim disagrees with this lol

The fact that the original article is from a sufi website needs to be known because sufism was not a practice of the prophet [alayhi salam] nor was it a practice of the companions [radhiya Allahu anhum] nor those who followed after them in beliefs, statements, actions, and understanding and implementation of the religion.

Oh God, the same mantra over and over. Guess what bro, the science known as "aqeedah" wasn't around the Prophet's time either. And you know the divisions of Tawheed, well that wasn't around then either. That fact that it came later doesn't make it any less valid. It was codified by scholars later. Same thing with Tasawwuf/Tazkiyyah/Sulook etc. These are just terms and until you can raise yourself to a level of discussion and understanding where you look beyond the apparent name of something whereby you judge it based on the name itself, you're not going to be doing justice whatsoever. The scholars use a principle, that differences are on concepts not terminologies - so lets be just and look beyond simple terminology and address concepts.

Some of the individuals mentioned in this article have huge issues in their aqeedah and manhaj and they call the people to other than what Allah had revealed and beliefs other than the prophet alayhi salam believed or encouraged the believers to believe. So beware of this and take your religion from the scholars with proofs and evidences and abandon taking knowledge from personalities who just entertain you. Wa billahit-tawfeeq

Bro, this is the height of arrogance. This is what you've done:

1) You've judged the people mentioned in the article and have essentially declared them heretics (issues in "aqeedah" and so called "manhaj"). As a side note, I wonder why Islamic scholarship had no problem taking of all things, Tafseer of the Qur'an from Zamakshari, I mean, the guy was Mu'tazili!
2) You have claimed that they are callers to falsehood ("call people to other than what Allah had revealed")
3) You've accused the person posting the article of taking knowledge from people that entertain him. ("who just entertain you")

I really don't know what to say to you. Please get over yourself. If whatever "knowledge" you've learned leads you to make statements like this, then you haven't learned knowledge, you've learned arrogance.

It is fine to disagree with people, and even to justly criticize, but that should never lead to arrogance and putting others down - which is exactly what you've done here. I'm not doubting your sincerity and your zeal to help your brothers to what you understand to be the truth, but what I am doing is disagreeing with you and criticizing you for the manner and the [incorrect] statements you've made, statements that are very heavy and will be taken into account. Unfortunately, today with the easy access to knowledge people have forgotten the adab and the tongues have become loose. This isn't knowledge and this isn't the fruit of knowledge.
 
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:sl:

The original post [and I skimmed it] is pretty awesome. Thank you for posting it.




GK9FG-1.jpg




Are you the only one or is the group you tend to follow the only group that agrees on this? I really don't get when you guys keep saying this over and over as if you're the ONLY ones, out of the entire ummah, that agrees on this point? Like are you serious? Are the scholars who disagree with you by default 'abandoned the principles of Islam' and are dishonest somehow to the Qur'an and Sunnah? Like are you seriously accusing other Muslims, passively, that they're not honest to Allah?

How arrogant must a people be to claim that all truth resides with them, and anyone who disagrees has deviated. May Allah protect us.

*****I am not sure why you chose to personally attack me nor am I sure why you accused me of all these horrible things. And what is this "you guys" and this "arrogant" and where did i claim all truth lies with me or the supposed group I am affiliated with. By Allah I am holding you personally accountable before Allah for what you accused me of because this is Dhulm [oppression].



Not sure why you keep going on about this. I don't think any Muslim disagrees with this lol

******You are laughing at this? This is a matter of deen, why are you laughing? Do you think the religion of Islaam is a laughing manner? Fear Allah!



Oh God, the same mantra over and over. Guess what bro, the science known as "aqeedah" wasn't around the Prophet's time either. And you know the divisions of Tawheed, well that wasn't around then either. That fact that it came later doesn't make it any less valid. It was codified by scholars later. Same thing with Tasawwuf/Tazkiyyah/Sulook etc. These are just terms and until you can raise yourself to a level of discussion and understanding where you look beyond the apparent name of something whereby you judge it based on the name itself, you're not going to be doing justice whatsoever. The scholars use a principle, that differences are on concepts not terminologies - so lets be just and look beyond simple terminology and address concepts.

*****First of all, Soofiyyah is not from Islaam at all, the deen of Islaam calls to unity and togetherness, how do you explain the Tareeqahs? The Tareeqahs differ and they have their own ways and means and acts of Ibaadah and all of them are based upon misguidance. Allah commanded us to stick together wa'tasimoo bi habli Lillah Jamee'an wa laa tafaraqoo" [3:103]And hold fast all of you to the rope of Allah and do not be divided" and Allah says, "minal alladheena farraqoo deenahum wa kanu shi'an kullu hizbaan bimaa laydahi farihoon" [30:32] From those who split up their religion and became parties &groups each one rejoicing in that which is with them." [30:32] likewise Allah says, "fataqata'oo amrahum baynahum zubraa kullu hizbin bimaa ladayhi farihoon" "But the people divided their religion among them into sects - each faction, in what it has, rejoicing." [23:53] From these so called tureeqaat where is the unity?these tareeqahs do not promote unity nor do they adhere to the rope of Allah which is the Qur'an and Sunnah. We have words that describe what you falsely attribute to Islaam. Tazkiyyatu nufoos [purification the souls] sulook is manhaj and as for the orgin of soofiyyah being dawning the garments of the poor then Az-Zuhd isnt the dawning of dirty clothes nor is it dressing slummy, but rather Zuhd is merely taking the bare minimum needed from this dunyaa to worship Allah until you die. I do not wish to discuss all the innovative practices found with those upon soofiyyah but all that innovative dhikr and the dhikr beads and the dancing and the spinning and the saying huwa huwa until they sound like barking dogs or when they say laa ilaaha 400 times commiting kufr and illa Allah 500 times both of these statements in absence of the other exits them from the fold of islam. How is this Islaam? How is this sticking to the rope of Allah. Did Abu Bakr As-Sideeq and Umar Bin Khattab Al-Farooq and Dhoo Nurayn Uthmaan Bin Affaan and Abu Turaab Alee Ibn Abee Taalib [radhiya Allahu anhum ajmaa'een] practice sitting in circles swaying back and forth making dhikr collectively? Stop supporting the deception of the average layman muslim into supporting practicises that the prophet [alayhi salam ] was not upon nor his companions nor those who followed after them in beliefs statements and actions and UNDERSTANDINGS.



Bro, this is the height of arrogance. This is what you've done:

1) You've judged the people mentioned in the article and have essentially declared them heretics (issues in "aqeedah" and so called "manhaj"). As a side note, I wonder why Islamic scholarship had no problem taking of all things, Tafseer of the Qur'an from Zamakshari, I mean, the guy was Mu'tazili!


******I am not arrogant at all but all the name calling indicate that you are the arrogant one. Tell me this, if some one was to equate the prophet [alayhi salam] with Allah would you get upset? Yes or no? Would you me jealous for Allah? Would you be mad at the individual who did the equating of Allah with His messenger [alayhi salam] when the prophet forbade us to exalt him above his station like the christians did with Isaa Ibnu Maryam! Should we as muslims be upset? Be honest Muslims, is this correct? Well Hamzah Yusef did this when he translated the poem entitled al burda by Al-Busiri. That poem is full of shirk and he encourages people to read it and memorise it and recite it. But Im more than sure that this response will either not be posted because or deleted or I will be asked to produce evidence when all a person has to do is google it and see. But all the allegations you made are here to stay.



2) You have claimed that they are callers to falsehood ("call people to other than what Allah had revealed")

Any individual who outwardly expresses the creed of the Ashaa'irah and outwardly expresses one of the tareeqahs of soofiyyah is indeed calling to a way other than what the prophet [alayhi salam] was upon. Do you agree? I met a man from the indo pakistan sub continent and he said to me that he was Hanafi Maturidee and I asked him what is that? He responded by saying, "Hanafi is my madhhab in fiqh and because im from Pakistan I follow the aqeedah of the maturidees." What was the madhhab of the messenger of Allah? And what was his aqeedah? For sure the prophet [alayhi wa salam] was not hanafi nor was he maturidee!


3) You've accused the person posting the article of taking knowledge from people that entertain him. ("who just entertain you")


*********I did not accuse the original poster of anything other than posting an article from sufi sources if you look through out my post I never speak of him pecifically I say the people, its general just as the prophet [alayhi salam] said concerning those sahabis who came to A'isha radhiya allahu anhaa and asked her about the worship of the prophet [alayhi salam] so they all concluded that one would fast and not break his fast, one said I will not marry and the other said I will pray all night. So the prophet alayhi salam said who are those individuals that said such and such, he didnt mention their names nor point at them but he spoke generally just as I have done.

I really don't know what to say to you. Please get over yourself. If whatever "knowledge" you've learned leads you to make statements like this, then you haven't learned knowledge, you've learned arrogance.


****Again with the personal attacks masha Allah, I do not think high of myself akhee nor am I an arrogant person I know who I am and I am in desparate need of my Lord's rahmah and maghfirah. Just because I hve gheerah [halal jealousy for this deen] and I refuse to allow individuals to speak about Allah or His Messenger [alayhi salam] or the deen of Islaam without proofs and evidences misguiding the people I am arrogant? My honor is permissible to be harmed by others right? Allahu Akbar!

It is fine to disagree with people, and even to justly criticize, but that should never lead to arrogance and putting others down - which is exactly what you've done here. I'm not doubting your sincerity and your zeal to help your brothers to what you understand to be the truth, but what I am doing is disagreeing with you and criticizing you for the manner and the [incorrect] statements you've made, statements that are very heavy and will be taken into account. Unfortunately, today with the easy access to knowledge people have forgotten the adab and the tongues have become loose. This isn't knowledge and this isn't the fruit of knowledge.

******There was no justice in your criticism, it was to mock me and to support the baatil. I ask you by Allah, is sufism from Allah and His Messenger? Is sitting in the circles doing dhikr collectively swaying back in forth from the practice of the prophet [alayhi salam]? is saying huwa huwa until one is not able to distinguish what he says anymore a practice of the prophet and his noble companions? In front of Allah can you honestly say to Allah sufism is from your religion that you are pleased with Allah? Can you testify to this? Can you testify that what Hamzah Yusuf teaches is what the Prophet [alayhi salam] came to teach humanity? When it is known that Hamzah Yusef said the aqeedah can be learned in 10 minutes in the deserts of mauritania. When the prophet taught tawheed for more than 13 years. Is this justice? I ask you is it permissible to seek refuge in other than Allah? Is it permissible to say that others have knowledge of the unseen besides Allah? Is it permissibl to swear by other than Allah? Please produce evidence for the answers to these questions because Hamzah Yusef translation of al- burda calls to this. So I ask you this,if someone calls to this, is this the way the prophet [alayhi salam] called humanity to Tawheed? Did the prophet [alayhi salam] say that that others have knowledge of the unseen? Did the prophet say it was permissible to swear by other than Allah? So this whole my shaykh is better than your shaykh is rubbish but rather it could have justly been entitled "What is more beloved the following of religious personalities even if they are in error or following Allah's Messenger [alayhi salam] in all good?"
 
******There was no justice in your criticism, it was to mock me and to support the baatil. I ask you by Allah, is sufism from Allah and His Messenger? Is sitting in the circles doing dhikr collectively swaying back in forth from the practice of the prophet [alayhi salam]? is saying huwa huwa until one is not able to distinguish what he says anymore a practice of the prophet and his noble companions? In front of Allah can you honestly say to Allah sufism is from your religion that you are pleased with Allah? Can you testify to this? Can you testify that what Hamzah Yusuf teaches is what the Prophet [alayhi salam] came to teach humanity? When it is known that Hamzah Yusef said the aqeedah can be learned in 10 minutes in the deserts of mauritania. When the prophet taught tawheed for more than 13 years. Is this justice? I ask you is it permissible to seek refuge in other than Allah? Is it permissible to say that others have knowledge of the unseen besides Allah? Is it permissibl to swear by other than Allah? Please produce evidence for the answers to these questions because Hamzah Yusef translation of al- burda calls to this. So I ask you this,if someone calls to this, is this the way the prophet [alayhi salam] called humanity to Tawheed? Did the prophet [alayhi salam] say that that others have knowledge of the unseen? Did the prophet say it was permissible to swear by other than Allah? So this whole my shaykh is better than your shaykh is rubbish but rather it could have justly been entitled "What is more beloved the following of religious personalities even if they are in error or following Allah's Messenger [alayhi salam] in all good?"

The article is trying to address exactly this ^ sort of garbage mentality and jahiliya! Dont be so arrogant to think the deen belongs to you and youre the only people on the face of the earth who are on Haq, this is ignorance in its worst form.
 
Br Muwaahid,Here is a thread Islam and Internet which you need to read before turning up this one into a debating one.Br Ibn Abi Ahmed has already addressed many of your points,so there is no need to carry this on further.
 
The article is trying to address exactly this ^ sort of garbage mentality and jahiliya! Dont be so arrogant to think the deen belongs to you and youre the only people on the face of the earth who are on Haq, this is ignorance in its worst form.


Ok you mind explaining to me why under your nickname you have Ya Nabi Salamu Alayka? This is what I am referring to, you deem its okay to call on the prophet alayhi salam even though he is not alive. Did you know the prophet alayhi salam said, "ad-duaa huwa ibaadah" that supplication is worship. I ask you if supplication is worship and worship is only to be directed to Allah then why are you calling on the messenger? Does Tawheed even exist in this way of life that you claim adherance to? Did not Allah say, "the masaajid are only for Allah so do not call upon others along with Him" We are Muslims right? We worship Allah alone upon Tawheed right? We single out Allah alone for every act of worship right? Is it from Islaam that we say "ya Nabi salamu alayka"? When will we honor Allah? When will we follow the prophet [alayhi salam] when will we worship Allah alone? I am being criticized because I am trying to uphold Tawheed and call to it and warn the people from shirk and from alien beliefs that oppose what the prophet [alayhi salam] was upon and his companions. Ajeeb! Muslims are opposing Tawheed and opposing the guidance of the Messenger [alayhi salam]? What is this? Look plain and simple, Are we going to change the religion of Islaam like the christians and jews did their religion? I didn't get that memo! Can you send me a copy of that memo? You can continue your tirade against me all you want but I know with certainty [without any arrogance or pride] that the truth of Tawheed is with me and everything i have stated in this post and those before this post I can back up with evidence from the book of Allah and the Sunnah upon the understanding of the companions. Can you? Not one ayah or hadeeth did you quote. If you consider clarifying the truth from falsehood as ignorance and jahiliyyah then I feel sorry for you. May Allah guide us all to see the truth as the truth and give us the success in following it.
 
Ok you mind explaining to me why under your nickname you have Ya Nabi Salamu Alayka? This is what I am referring to, you deem its okay to call on the prophet alayhi salam even though he is not alive. Did you know the prophet alayhi salam said, "ad-duaa huwa ibaadah" that supplication is worship. I ask you if supplication is worship and worship is only to be directed to Allah then why are you calling on the messenger? Does Tawheed even exist in this way of life that you claim adherance to? Did not Allah say, "the masaajid are only for Allah so do not call upon others along with Him" We are Muslims right? We worship Allah alone upon Tawheed right? We single out Allah alone for every act of worship right? Is it from Islaam that we say "ya Nabi salamu alayka"? When will we honor Allah? When will we follow the prophet [alayhi salam] when will we worship Allah alone? I am being criticized because I am trying to uphold Tawheed and call to it and warn the people from shirk and from alien beliefs that oppose what the prophet [alayhi salam] was upon and his companions. Ajeeb! Muslims are opposing Tawheed and opposing the guidance of the Messenger [alayhi salam]? What is this? Look plain and simple, Are we going to change the religion of Islaam like the christians and jews did their religion? I didn't get that memo! Can you send me a copy of that memo? You can continue your tirade against me all you want but I know with certainty [without any arrogance or pride] that the truth of Tawheed is with me and everything i have stated in this post and those before this post I can back up with evidence from the book of Allah and the Sunnah upon the understanding of the companions. Can you? Not one ayah or hadeeth did you quote. If you consider clarifying the truth from falsehood as ignorance and jahiliyyah then I feel sorry for you. May Allah guide us all to see the truth as the truth and give us the success in following it.

Brother I admire your efforts to spread Tawheed and your stance against bid'ah but in this case what is wrong in saying as salaamu alaika ya nabi...when during tashahhud in salah we say the same thing in the same manner. And saying salam does not imply that the prophet :arabic5: is alive or that we worship him when he :arabic5: himself taught us the dua of tashahhud. And besides we never say salaam to Allaah do we? We praise Him and seek His help but we never say salaam.

I hope I did not offend you in any way. May Allah reward you for your intentions and may He guide ALL of us to the truth.

And one more thing...I do not know the reference but there is a sahih hadith that the prophet :arabic5: said that a house on the outskirts of jannah is guaranteed for the one who refrains from argument (especially when the argument is going nowhere).
 
Br Muwaahid,Here is a thread Islam and Internet which you need to read before turning up this one into a debating one.Br Ibn Abi Ahmed has already addressed many of your points,so there is no need to carry this on further.

Nothing was addressed in his response except mocking me and supporting individuals who spread misguidance. You will be as I will be responsible for our actions and what we narrate about Allah and His Messenger and the Deen of Islaam. By you posting what you posted [seeing that you are the original poster] you will stand before Allah alone on the day of ressurection and there will be no interpretor between you and Allah and He will question you concerning this and He will narrate unto you, what you used to do. All im saying is take account of yourself and think hard before you post something about Islaam. Be clear about what you are saying and if there are negative consequences that may result from posting then abstain.

If I was going to post something about Islaam that had a slant or a spin on it from people I was affiliated with I would abstain. The truth is more beloved to me than any personality. And belittling the differences between the Muslims and simplyfying it as my shaykh verses your shaykh is wrong, it is a matter of right and wrong. Its a matter of Tawheed and Shirk! Its a matter of Imaan and Kufr! Its a matter of Sunnah and Bid'ah!

You know what is ironic? When those individuals made that horrible movie about our Messenger [alayhi salam] and a large amount of the Muslims took to the streets and harmed the security of many nations, and evil burned and killed individuals, they did that out of so called love of islaam and the Messenger [alayhi salam] even individuals who normally didnt practice Islaam were outraged. Though I completely disagree with any protest and denostrations and anarchy and mob mentality look how outraged they were for this deen? You think I'm wrong for posting my comments when there was clear deception in the post that you posted? I am not accussing you personally of deception, all you did was copy paste it. But playing the timid little wholesome deer is not your best role. Man up and be honest about what you are about. If you are sufi or have leanings towards tasawoof then come clean. Claim it, because some people learn the religion from web boards and they should know who they are taking their knowledge from and whether their is a slant or spin on the info they are recieving.
 


Brother I admire your efforts to spread Tawheed and your stance against bid'ah but in this case what is wrong in saying as salaamu alaika ya nabi...when during tashahhud in salah we say the same thing in the same manner. And saying salam does not imply that the prophet :arabic5: is alive or that we worship him when he :arabic5: himself taught us the dua of tashahhud. And besides we never say salaam to Allaah do we? We praise Him and seek His help but we never say salaam.




I hope I did not offend you in any way. May Allah reward you for your intentions and may He guide ALL of us to the truth.

And one more thing...I do not know the reference but there is a sahih hadith that the prophet :arabic5: said that a house on the outskirts of jannah is guaranteed for the one who refrains from argument (especially when the argument is going nowhere).


May Allah reward you Abu Zainab and bless you and have mercy on you! Allahumma Ameen, with respect to the saying as-salaamu alayka in our tashahud then I'd like to direct you to the statement of Ibn Mas'ood [radhiya Allah anhu] where he said, " qulnaa: "as-salaamu alayka ayyuhan nabi " fee tashahud wa nabee [sallallahu alayhi wa salam] hayyun falammaa maata a3dilu an dhalika wa qaaloo: "as-salaamu alan-nabee" Ibn Mas'ood [radhiya allahu anhu] said, "we USED to say peace be upon you oh prophet in the tashahud and the prophet [alayhi sallam] WAS ALIVE but when he died we left that and we said, "as-salaamu alan nabee" we said peace be upon the messenger [alayhi salaam] and this statement can be found in saheeh al bukhaaree and also in the musnad of Siraaj and also in sharh minhaaj by subkee as well. So after his demise [alayhi wa salam] the companions quit saying as-salaamu alayka but changed it to as-salaamu alan nabee.
 
I'm really not going to waste my time replying to anything that was said. This is a discussion that will never end.

*****I am not sure why you chose to personally attack me nor am I sure why you accused me of all these horrible things. And what is this "you guys" and this "arrogant" and where did i claim all truth lies with me or the supposed group I am affiliated with. By Allah I am holding you personally accountable before Allah for what you accused me of because this is Dhulm [oppression].

If you think that I did "dhulm" to you, then I'm sorry. But I do not and will not apologize for defending the honor of another believer, especially a scholar who's work has benefited so many people extensively, in his absence when he is being spoken ill of. It would be really nice and ideal if we can discuss this without getting emotional. But, clearly, that is a level of discussion that really can't be achieved when it comes to these issues so live and let live.

Wasalam.
 
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Ok you mind explaining to me why under your nickname you have Ya Nabi Salamu Alayka? This is what I am referring to, you deem its okay to call on the prophet alayhi salam even though he is not alive. Did you know the prophet alayhi salam said, "ad-duaa huwa ibaadah" that supplication is worship. I ask you if supplication is worship and worship is only to be directed to Allah then why are you calling on the messenger? Does Tawheed even exist in this way of life that you claim adherance to? Did not Allah say, "the masaajid are only for Allah so do not call upon others along with Him" We are Muslims right? We worship Allah alone upon Tawheed right? We single out Allah alone for every act of worship right? Is it from Islaam that we say "ya Nabi salamu alayka"? When will we honor Allah? When will we follow the prophet [alayhi salam] when will we worship Allah alone? I am being criticized because I am trying to uphold Tawheed and call to it and warn the people from shirk and from alien beliefs that oppose what the prophet [alayhi salam] was upon and his companions. Ajeeb! Muslims are opposing Tawheed and opposing the guidance of the Messenger [alayhi salam]? What is this? Look plain and simple, Are we going to change the religion of Islaam like the christians and jews did their religion? I didn't get that memo! Can you send me a copy of that memo? You can continue your tirade against me all you want but I know with certainty [without any arrogance or pride] that the truth of Tawheed is with me and everything i have stated in this post and those before this post I can back up with evidence from the book of Allah and the Sunnah upon the understanding of the companions. Can you? Not one ayah or hadeeth did you quote. If you consider clarifying the truth from falsehood as ignorance and jahiliyyah then I feel sorry for you. May Allah guide us all to see the truth as the truth and give us the success in following it.

We salute the Holy Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) in Salah five times a day "Ayyuhannabiyyu" (Oh Prophet !), do you have a problem with that too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRBO_LmqxEg

Secondly our Nabi peace be upon him IS alive contrary to what you say or believe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuxMwI1AgLo

I say Ya Nabi Salam Alayka loud and clear and if you have an issue with that its your loss.
 
We salute the Holy Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) in Salah five times a day "Ayyuhannabiyyu" (Oh Prophet !), do you have a problem with that too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRBO_LmqxEg

Secondly our Nabi peace be upon him IS alive contrary to what you say or believe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuxMwI1AgLo

I say Ya Nabi Salam Alayka loud and clear and if you have an issue with that its your loss.

I do not wish to discuss this any further lakum deenakum wa liya deen to you be your religion to me be mines. And if you listened to the bilal phillips clip that was in this thread he said, for those who say that the prophet is alive then why was he buried? Wouldnt that be oppressive to bury a a living man in the grave? For the average muslims who maybe reading this thread please disregard visions post, it is not permissible to call upon the dead, it is not permissible to call upon the absent in dua, but it is permissible to call upon Allah for He hears all things and posesses the power and ability to help you. Not like this individual vison who sees it okay to call upon the prophet alayhi salam. This individual refuses to be corrected when I furnished the narration of Ibn Mas'ood radhiya allahu anhu] where he mentioned that the companions used to say the tashahud like this while the prophet [alayhi salam] as-salaamu alayka ayyuhan nabiyyu WHILE HE WAS ALIVE BUT AFTER HE DIED WE SAID as-salaamu alan nabiyyi..... peace be upon the prophet.

Clarifying The Doubts About Sending Salaah Upon The Prophet (saw) And The Fact That He Cannot Hear Us Directly


















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Our salaah upon the Prophet is only presented to him (for he cannot hear us directly and independently):

Aws Ibn Aws and Abu Mas’ood al-Ansaaree reported that the prophet (saw) mentioned:

“Indeed the best of your days is the day of jummah. On it, Aadam was created, on it he died, and on it will be the blow (of the Horn) and the concussion (causing all people to die). Therefore, say plenty of salah upon me during it, because your salaah will be presented to me.“

The Prophet (saw) was asked, ‘How can our salaah be presented to you when you will have decayed?‘ He (saw) replied:

“Indeed, Allaah prohibited for the earth to eat from the Prophets’ bodies.“

[Abu Dawood, an-Nisaa'ee and others. Authenticated in Saheeh Abu Dawood # 962 and as-Saheehah # 1527]

The Prophet (saw) cannot hear us directly:

Abu Bakr reported that the Prophet (saw) said:

“Say the salaah upon me frequently, because Allaah has appointed for me an angel who stays by my grave. Whenever one of my followers says salaah upon me, that angel says to me, ‘O Muhammad, so-and-so has just said salaah upon you.‘“

[al-Bazzaar, ad-Daymalee and others. Verified to be hasan by Al-albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami' # 1207 & as-Saheehah # 1530]

Say Salaah upon the Prophet from wherever you are:

Abu Hurairah reported the Messenger of Allaah said:

“Do not turn my grave into a place of seasonal celebration and visitations (Ar. ‘Eid), and do not turn your houses into graves (by not praying in them). Wherever you are, pray upon me, because your prayer (Ar. Salaah) will reach me.“

[Abu Dawood, Ahmad and others. Verified to be saheeh by Al-Albaani in 'Ahkaam ul-Janaa'iz' p. 280]

For you do not need to go to the grave of the Prophet (saw) to do so:

Once al-Hasan, son of al-Hasan Ibn ‘Alee (i.e., The Prophet’s grandson’s son), saw a man standing by the grave of the Prophet and saying salaam to him. So al-Hasan told him that it would suffice him to say the salaam upon him entering the Prophet’s Masjid. He then narrated the above hadeeth and added:


“You and those in Andalus (i.e., Spain) are equivalent (in that your salaam can reach the Prophet).”

[Recorded by Saa'eed Ibn Mansoor, Ibn Abee Shaybah and others. Verified to be authentic by Al-Albaani in 'Ahkaan ul-Janaa'iz' Pp. 280-281]

For an Angel conveys your salaah to him:

When we say salaah or salaam upon the Prophet (saw), Allaah appoints angels to convey these supplications to him. Ibn Mas’ood reported the Messenger of Allaah as saying:

“Allaah hsa angels that travel over the earth, delivering to me (after my death) the salaam from my ummah.“

[Abu Dawood and others. Verified to be authentic by Al-Albaani in 'al-Aayaat ul-Bayyinaat]

This (above) indicates that the Prophet (saw) cannot independently hear the salaam of his followers. He (saw) receives it solely by means of angels who deliver it to him (saw) – regardless of whether those saying the salaam are standing right next to his grave or at the farthest point of the world.

Allaah restores his (saw) soul into him (saw) for the response:

Abu Hurairah reported the Messenger of Allaas as saying:

“Whenever a person says salaam upon me (after my death), Allaah restores my soul to me so as to respond to his salaam.“

[Abu Dawood, al-Bayhaqee and others. Verified to be authentic by Al-Albaani in 'Saheeh ul-Jaami' # 5679 and as-Saheehah # 2266]


You are very immature vision
 
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