Non-sectarian Islam?

[gord]

be unable to complete a significant portion of Islam like Salah, Hajj, Zakah etc

How so? i find all 3 in my Qu'ran. :hmm:

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum Gord,


Mmm, brother Saifuddin is perhaps a little energetic in his views. (twinkle) I remember being young and categorical, too.


Nevertheless, it is correct to say that there is information for the daily how-to of life that we need, that is not in the Qur'an. For instance, the Qur'an exhorts the believer to pray. But the full details on when and how are not described (believe me, I looked). This is when it is necessary to consult other sources.


It's a bit like having a travel guidebook. You can get a lot of general information from the guidebook, but then you need to consult other sources (timetables,specific hotels, travel agents, detailed maps...) to get the details that will enhance and optimize your travel experience.


Or a Constitution. It will give you the framework to work within, but you still need all the various levels of legislation to deal with day-to-day life. For example, the Constitution, by itself, does not tell drivers about specific speed limits and penalties for when those limits are exceeded.


That said, I would encourage those new to Islam to take things slowly. The Qur'an is the best guide for you. Just be aware that other sources of information exist, and that it will be useful to slowly become aware of them.


And for Saifuddin: My dear, just as the immigrant to a new country needs time to figure out all the laws and penalties, so do those new to Islam (regardless of their ethnic or cultural heritage) need time to explore this new land of Islam. Let us be welcoming and gracious hosts... even if they do, in their ignorance, walk through our kitchens in their muddy shoes...


May Allah, the Kind and Forgiving, Guide our efforts in our struggle towards Him.

 

[gord]

Assalaamu alaikum Gord,


Mmm, brother Saifuddin is perhaps a little energetic in his views. (twinkle) I remember being young and categorical, too.


Nevertheless, it is correct to say that there is information for the daily how-to of life that we need, that is not in the Qur'an. For instance, the Qur'an exhorts the believer to pray. But the full details on when and how are not described (believe me, I looked). This is when it is necessary to consult other sources.


It's a bit like having a travel guidebook. You can get a lot of general information from the guidebook, but then you need to consult other sources (timetables,specific hotels, travel agents, detailed maps...) to get the details that will enhance and optimize your travel experience.


Or a Constitution. It will give you the framework to work within, but you still need all the various levels of legislation to deal with day-to-day life. For example, the Constitution, by itself, does not tell drivers about specific speed limits and penalties for when those limits are exceeded.


That said, I would encourage those new to Islam to take things slowly. The Qur'an is the best guide for you. Just be aware that other sources of information exist, and that it will be useful to slowly become aware of them.


And for Saifuddin: My dear, just as the immigrant to a new country needs time to figure out all the laws and penalties, so do those new to Islam (regardless of their ethnic or cultural heritage) need time to explore this new land of Islam. Let us be welcoming and gracious hosts... even if they do, in their ignorance, walk through our kitchens in their muddy shoes...


May Allah, the Kind and Forgiving, Guide our efforts in our struggle towards Him.

good post! Salaam.

 

[Insaanah]

How so? i find all 3 in my Qu'ran. :hmm:

As I mentioned before, the Qur'an tells you to give zakat, but doesn't mention how much we have to give. That's in the hadeeth.

The Qur'an tells you to perform hajj, but doesn't tell you exactly how hajj must be done. The prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) taught us that, exactly how Allah instructed him, and that is recorded in the hadeeth.

The Qur'an tells us to pray, but doesn't tell us how many units in each prayer, what to say in each position etc. Allah of this was taught to us by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). He was taught by Allah, how to pray, how to give zakat, how to perform hajj, etc, and then he taught us. And what he taught us, is recorded in the authentic hadeeth, and must be followed. In case there's any confusion, it isn't an optional extra.

Many people are under the misperception that the hadeeth are just something written by men hundreds of years after the Prophets death and are not really relevant because they are not divine. People don't realise, that in matters of deen, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) didn't make up anything himself. He was taught by Allah. He didn't make up how to do hajj, or how much zakat to give, or how many units in each prayer or what to say. He was taught by Allah, Glorified and Exalted be He. Those teachings, which he taught us, to teach us our religion, are recorded in the hadeeth, and as we know, salaat, zakaat, hajj etc are compulsory (the latter two on those who have the means). If we don't perform them according to the rules, they are at risk of being completely invalid. Rejection of the hadeeth is tantamount to rejection of Allah's teachings given to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and strikes at the very roots and the very foundation of ones faith.

Without following the sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), we cannot follow Islam properly, and it is extremely dangerous.

 

[Snow]

This doesn't make any sense,

If your a Muslim, then you must strive to be a Good Muslim,

as for the Sunnah of the Messenger :saws:, if you Reject it, like Hadith Rejectors, it is Kufr, and takes you out of the fold of Islam, not to mention that you would be Disobeying Several Direct commands of Allah ta'ala and be unable to complete a significant portion of Islam like Salah, Hajj, Zakah etc

May Allah ta'ala rectify your conduct and affairs,

ameen

:jz:

6:114 "Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book (the Qu'ran) explained in detail." "



I do not agree with you but that is perfectly fine. You will live your life like you consider it right, just as I will live my life, trying to do my best to be a good muslim.
In the end we will have to die and Allah shall judge us.

Fitting for this discussion:
18:54 "We have explained in detail in this Qur'an for the benefit of mankind every kind of similitude: but man is in most things contentious. "

Again, I consider life to be a test and each muslim will have to find their own path. I could be wrong and I could be right but in the end, I am only responsible for my path. I wont force my views on anyone.

 

[InToTheRain]

Just some general points to remember:

1) Qur'an says It will misguide those who are arrogant and those who are wicked:

[Quran 17:82] We send down in the Quran healing and mercy for the believers. At the same time, it only increases the wickedness of the transgressors.

[Quran 7:146] I will divert from My revelations those who are arrogant on earth, without justification.Consequently, when they see every kind of proof they will not believe. And when they see the path of guidance they will not adopt it as their path, but when they see the path of straying they will adopt it as their path. This is the consequence of their rejecting our proofs, and being totally heedless thereof.

2) Qur'an instruct us to refer to those who know:

" Ask those who recall, if you know not " (Qur'an 16:43),

" If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter " (Qur'an 4:83),

3) In order to protect the Shariah from the danger of innovation and distortion, the great scholars of usul laid down rigorous conditions which must be fulfilled by anyone wishing to claim the right of ijtihad for himself. These conditions include:

(a) mastery of the Arabic language, to minimise the possibility of misinterpreting Revelation on purely linguistic grounds;

(b) a profound knowledge of the Quran and Sunnah and the circumstances surrounding the revelation of each verse and hadith, together with a full knowledge of the Quranic and hadith commentaries, and a control of all the interpretative techniques discussed above;

(c) knowledge of the specialised disciplines of hadith, such as the assessment of narrators and of the matn [text];

(d) knowledge of the views of the Companions, Followers and the great imams (the Imams of the Madhabs), and of the positions and reasoning expounded in the textbooks of fiqh, combined with the knowledge of cases where a consensus (ijma) has been reached;

(e) knowledge of the science of juridical analogy (qiyas), its types and conditions;

(f) knowledge of ones own society and of public interest (maslahah);

(g) knowing the general objectives (maqasid) of the Shariah;

(h) a high degree of intelligence and personal piety, combined with the Islamic virtues of compassion, courtesy, and modesty.

4) So unless you meet the criteria above you should use the Qur'an and Hadith for reference only and not for drawing conclusions upon which to act. You need to refer to those who know. If you do that with your current knowledge it would be like looking at half a picture and trying to draw conclusions as to what message the picture entailed; clearly it will be different to those who know the whole picture and hence you will conflict with them.

 

[Muhammad]

:salamext:

I could be wrong but it seems like the divided groups of muslims begins when they do not use the Qur'an as their source. Or focus too strongly on one sentence instead of reading it as a whole text.

What you have written here is very pertinent. If we are indeed to use the Qur'an as our source, and if indeed we will consider the whole revelation, then let us also note the numerous verses commanding us to follow the Sunnah, not just as an additional piece of information for our interest, but as a vital source of our guidance and salvation:

Allaah revealed the Qur’aan to His Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and commanded him to explain it to the people, as He said (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad) the Dhikr [reminder and the advice (i.e. the Qur’aan)], that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought”

[al-Nahl 16:44]

The hadeeth of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is a revelation (wahy) from his Lord. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.
Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.
It is only a Revelation revealed”

[al-Najm 53:2-4]

Allaah sent His Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to call mankind to worship Allaah alone, and to disbelieve in any (god) apart from Him, and (He sent him) to bring the glad tidings of Paradise and warnings of Hell:

“O Prophet (Muhammad)! Verily, We have sent you as witness, and a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner,

And as one who invites to Allaah [Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allaah (Alone)] by His Leave, and as a lamp spreading light (through your instructions from the Qur’aan and the Sunnah the legal ways of the Prophet)

[al-Ahzaab 33:45-46 – interpretation of the meaning]

The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was anxious over this ummah; he did not know of anything good but he told them of it, and he did not know of anything evil but he warned them against it:

“Verily, there has come unto you a Messenger (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty. He (Muhammad) is anxious over you; for the believers (he is) full of pity, kind, and merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:128 – interpretation of the meaning]

Every Prophet was sent only to his own people, but Allaah sent His Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to all of mankind:

“And We have sent you (O Muhammad) not but as a mercy for the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)”

[al-Anbiyaa’ 21:101 – interpretation of the meaning]

Because the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) conveyed the revelation that was sent down to him from His Lord, it is obligatory to obey him. Indeed, obedience to him is obedience to Allaah:

“He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), has indeed obeyed Allaah”

[al-Nisaa’ 4:80 – interpretation of the meaning]

Obedience to Allaah and His Messenger is the way to salvation and victory, and to happiness in this world and in the Hereafter:

“And whosoever obeys Allaah and His Messenger, he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the Hell‑fire and will be admitted to Paradise)”

[al-Ahzaab 33:71 – interpretation of the meaning]

Hence it is obligatory for all people to obey Allaah and His Messenger, because therein lies their success and salvation:

“And obey Allaah and the Messenger (Muhammad) that you may obtain mercy”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:132 – interpretation of the meaning]

Whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger only harms himself, he does not harm Allaah in the slightest:

“And whosoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment”

[al-Nisaa’ 4:14 – interpretation of the meaning]

Once Allaah and His Messenger have decided a matter, no one has the right to choose concerning that or to object to it; rather it is obligatory to obey and to believe in the truth:

“It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allaah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed into a plain error

[al-Ahzaab 33:36 – interpretation of the meaning]

A person's faith is not complete until he loves Allaah and His Messenger, and love implies obedience. Whoever wants Allah to love him and forgive his sins must follow the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him):

“Say (O Muhammad to mankind): ‘If you (really) love Allaah, then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur’aan and the Sunnah), Allaah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful’”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:31 – interpretation of the meaning]

Love of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is not simply the matter of words to be repeated, rather it is the matter of belief and conduct, i.e., obedience to what he commands, belief in what he tells us, avoidance of what he forbids, and avoidance of worshipping Allaah in any way except that which he prescribed.

When Allaah had perfected this religion and the Messenger had conveyed the message of his Lord, Allaah took him to be with Him. The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) left this ummah with clear proof in which there is no ambiguity. No one deviates from it but he is doomed:

“This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion”

[al-Maa'idah 5:3 – interpretation of the meaning]



And lastly, let us heed the warning given by Allaah :swt: towards those who disregard the Sunnah:

"So let those beware who dissent from the Prophet's order, lest fitnah strike them or a painful punishment."

[An-Noor: 63 - interpretation of the meaning]

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum Gord and Snow,

I noticed that you appreciated my posts, and I thank you for considering my words. However, I would like to clarify something that perhaps I did not make clear. When I say that the Qur'an is the best Guide, this is true. But that does not mean that the ahadith should be neglected.

You know, Snow, I looked up a person you mentioned on another thread. And I think I understand now why you may be feeling the way you do. I think I also understand better why some people on this Forum have seemed very sensitive on the topic of the ahadith.

When I said that it may be valid to be a little leery of the ahadith, I meant that everyday people may throw around what they claim are ahadith with reckless abandon. I have heard many things claimed with the authority of a hadith that "everyone" knows…that has ended up being a fabricated or mis-quoted hadith. And it is of this that I am leery. Very leery! But the hadith literature itself is a treasure-house of knowledge. You know, I have immersed myself in it, and found myself transported back to those amazing days of Revelation. It can be very comforting and uplifting. The ahadith are not something to be scorned and ridiculed, or put aside as irrelevant. They are very relevant.

One line of a hadith, or even a whole one will not give you a clear picture. You really do need to read many. Just as (I think Snow) very correctly pointed out that it is important to read the Qur'an as a whole, so do you need to approach the hadith literature holistically.

Of course, if you are just starting out, you cannot ingest everything at once. This takes time and reflection. And you need the Qur'an to Guide you through the ahadith, too (smile. You need the Qur'an to Guide you through everything!). And by all means, take your time. Just as building a relationship with another person takes time, so does building your relationship with God.

But please, my brothers in Islam, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, be cautious in accepting what Joe Muslim tells you is Allah's Will, by all means. But don't reject that which can bring you great benefit, just because you don't know it well yet. And be very careful of people who pretend to love Muslims, but subtly cause others to reject and denigrate them.

May Allah, the Generous, Illuminate our sincerely seeking hearts.

 

[amrabdulrahman]

For an example the zakat. It talks about giving what is right. It is not specific about a percentage. I think it is challenging what you yourself feel is right.

Again, i could be very wrong.

Yes dear you are wrong.
"Salaat" a singe word have meaning dua, prayer and more. How can we know the true meanings untill we know the sunnah. Sunnah shows salaat means the a specific way to pray. When, where how to pray.
Also quran says about zakat nabi kaeem s.a.w.w sunnah told us the percentage. Who have to pay whom have to pay.
Quran says about hajj and sunnah shows us the way to perform hajj. When, where and how to perform.
If we leave sunnah then there will be no way to perform faraiz.
Quran only mention about faraiz and sunnah shows us how to perform faraiz.
Deen is nothing without sunnah and without sahaba r.a.
Infact sunnat is sharah of quran and fiqah is sharah of quran and sunnah.
It looks like u belong to parvazi sect (those who refuse the importence of sunnah).

 

[amrabdulrahman]

As ALLAH guided you to islam (truth), in sha ALLAH you will find the truth about haq (sunni).