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Thread: Original sin and disbelief in Adam

Malaikah

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Hi all!

My (limited) understanding is that Christians have this concept of original sin because Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden fruit in Paradise.

My question is - for those Christians who deny that Adam and Eve existed and say that it is just a 'story' and instead believe in evolution, what happens to the concept of original sin??

And I guess to put things in perspective, is the denial of the existence of Adam and Eve something believe only by Christians with weak faith or limited knowledge, or is this part of the teachings of the Church itself (depending on the denomination, I guess)?

I hope that makes sense, and I'm looking forward to your thoughts!
 
My understanding is that some "Christians" don't believe in the story of creation as it's described in the Bible because they don't think you should read what should be taken literally, literally. So something like Jesus feeding the four thousand they wouldn't believe, or Jesus walking on water, because they would take a highly subjective view of scripture and disregard what the text says.

In the case of the creation story and the fall, it is important to note that the belief that Adam and Eve bought the curse of sin on the entire world is part of the historic orthodox Christian faith, so you really shouldn't concern yourself with those who say otherwise.
 
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Ah! the story of Adam and Eve should be regarded as symbolic, we are the fruit of evolution, natural selection, just like every other creature on this planet.

No, the denial of this symbolic story shouldnt be attributed to people with weak faith etc, it should be attributed to open minded people, their are many scientific studies I could cite here to prove my point, Its just so obvious, Natural selection and evolution is what its all about, regard the story of Adam and Eve as symbolic,Thats is all. Facts can bump out these stories and give them their rightfull place: Legend/symbolic just like the beleif that the earth was flat!
 
The story of Adam and Eve stands out for me for three reasons.

1. It shows that the writer holds obedience over morality.

The fruit was the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, so before they ate the fruit they had no idea if it was "good" to obey God. Yet they are punished for eating the fruit and the writer sees this as just.

2. The writer believes in transferal of punishment.

Adam eats the fruit, so all men are to suffer. The child is held responsible for the sin of the parent. This concept is frowned upon in most modern societies (you won't get put in jail for something your dad did) but in this spiritual story it is considered just.

3. What the heck was the snake?

Was the Snake satan or just a snake? And if it was Satan then why were snakes punished?
 
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Pygoscelis said:
The story of Adam and Eve stands out for me for two reasons.

1. It shows that the writer holds obedience over morality.

The fruit was the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, so before they ate the fruit they had no idea if it was "good" to obey God. Yet they are punished for eating the fruit and the writer sees this as just.

2. What the heck was the snake?

Was the Snake satan or just a snake? And if it was Satan then why were snakes punished?
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No idea what the snake means, but snakes are spooky!!! And spooky stuff is a fine ingredient in any legend/story.:smile:
 
The Adam and Eve story is largely accepted as literal by most Christians, albeit with an understanding that elements could and most likely are allegory. That doesn't change the spiritual separation from God that came about as a result of their actions. That is what Christians are meant to take away from the story, not unanswerable questions about ribs and fruit.

As for the snake, the Bible never states that the snake is Satan. It is most likely a metaphor for what Satan represents, which is temptation and a fall from grace.
 
The bible teaches that men are made from dirt and women are made from ribs.

This explains why women taste so much better than men.
 
Pygoscelis said:
The story of Adam and Eve stands out for me for three reasons.

1. It shows that the writer holds obedience over morality.

The fruit was the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, so before they ate the fruit they had no idea if it was "good" to obey God. Yet they are punished for eating the fruit and the writer sees this as just.
Click to expand...

Adam and Eve were created spiritually innocent. We as fallen human beings don't know what that is like, as we can distinguish good from evil. We know that they had a relationship with God unlike what we are capable of having with him today though, and we know that they had free will to choose to obey or to disobey God.


Pygoscelis said:
2. The writer believes in transferal of punishment.

Adam eats the fruit, so all men are to suffer. The child is held responsible for the sin of the parent. This concept is frowned upon in most modern societies (you won't get put in jail for something your dad did) but in this spiritual story it is considered just.
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Well, it is true that through Adam sin entered into the world, and death by sin. But, even if Adam didn't sin, there would have still been individuals who would have ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, who would have produced offspring. I don't pretend to understand why God allowed the fall to happen though.


Pygoscelis said:
3. What the heck was the snake?

Was the Snake satan or just a snake? And if it was Satan then why were snakes punished?
Click to expand...

I believe that Satan possessed the snake. In the Gospels we see that the devils beg Jesus to send them into the swine that are feeding. There are also some Bible commentators who believe that before the fall Adam and Eve were able to communicate with animals. The fall pretty much tainted everything.
 
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Pygoscelis - just FYI, none of the points you mentioned apply to the Islamic version of the story.

memories - so does this mean you disbelieve in original sin?
 
A Christian friend once said to me Adam and eve represent the stage in human development where we got our free will and the apple is the first conscious sin made by the human race.
 
Malaikah said:
^What on earth is that meant to mean? :?
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According to my friend, Adam and Eve are an alegory or a representation of the first humans to have free will, and the whole forbidden fruit thing is a representation of humanity using the free will to ppose god or in other words sin.
He didn't explain how and why their sin is transeferred to every newborn.
 
I'm surprised you didn't know that! I mean, surely you knew there is no original sin in Islam? The mistake was Adam and Eve's, it didn't transfer to their kids. Also, the fruit was just a fruit - nothing special about it, and there was no serpent either.
 
Though, as a result, they got thrown to Earth to be tested, so now we're tested because of what they did. So in a way Islam says that we inherit the consequences of what they did.

Yours,
M
 
Greetings,

I live in the UK, and most of the priests I've spoken about this with here don't take the story of Adam and Eve literally.

Peace
 
^That's freaky. So then do these priests disregard original sin too?

mattityahu said:
Though, as a result, they got thrown to Earth to be tested, so now we're tested because of what they did. So in a way Islam says that we inherit the consequences of what they did.
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Firstly, it was always the plan that Adam and Eve and their progeny would end up on Earth, which we know because God told the angels before He created Adam that He was creating a creature that was going to live on Earth.

We are being tested on Earth because that was God's intention all along. It just so happens that eating the fruit and being expelled from Paradise was triggering event that lead to humans ending up on Earth.

Secondly, it is a reality of life that the actions of one person will have consequences for others. We see that every day. That doesn't correlate with inheriting sin or blame or anything like that.
 
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Malaikah said:
^That's freaky. So then do these priests disregard original sin too?



Firstly, it was always the plan that Adam and Eve and their progeny would end up on Earth, which we know because God told the angels before He created Adam that He was creating a creature that was going to live on Earth.

We are being tested on Earth because that was God's intention all along. It just so happens that eating the fruit and being expelled from Paradise was triggering event that lead to humans ending up on Earth.

Secondly, it is a reality of life that the actions of one person will have consequences for others. We see that every day. That doesn't correlate with inheriting sin or blame or anything like that.
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Thanks for this. I absolutely agree with your last statement.

Yours,
M