[anyabwile]

Hello...:statisfie

Approx five years ago, i was a fully practising Muslim. (Revert) About that time five years ago, i left the religion. Troubled by many questions about (PBUH) The prophet, with regards to slavery, his young wife and what i saw as inaccurate errors in the Quran.

I am still highly sceptical. And have been for about five years until tonight. I was (to cut it short) challenged to a fight and i walked away. I am trained 3 and a half or so years in martial arts, and my pride (?) hit me, i walked away.

I am 5'10 15.10 stone, im a big guy (although i was bigger) this gent was about 5.7, very thin and i feel confident i could have "floored" him. My martial arts teacher is Muslim and never before in all my four years of studying martial arts have i been challenged, except tonight. I looked at the guy and walked away.

I was crying almost in the taxi home, a combination of perhaps my own male pride and my still unending curiosity's about the religion.

There is no point in lying at the moment i am not Muslim i am agnostic, too many things upset me about the Islamic religion (slavery and wife beating). But tonight's event struck a cord. Particularly with it being the month.

It felt different, the main factor was me walking away. never ever have i been challenged before and perhaps it was coincidence, or perhaps not. Tonight i walked away.

I am sceptical of Islam, the errors, and the prophet. But tonight has hit me hard. And it's the first time i have come back to being even close to returning to Islam in about five years.

Please don't take this post as me saying i am Muslim, im not. At the moment i am not. But tonight was powerful and i feel it may have been from a higher calling. it seems to me it was too much of a coincidence, (the holy month) for Islam and tonight events...

Perhaps tommorow i will wake with a clear head and it will be done. I don't want to be blindly Reverted (AGAIN). But someone who's (honestly) been where i am now, i would like to speak to

[Email Removed]

Thank you. Please don't be offended at my responses or questions but i feel everything has hit at a certain time..perhaps.

Thank you for reading, thank you...

:statisfie

 

[Salahudeen]

I had some doubts that you had like the slavery issue and the young wife. The explanation that sufficced me was,

"you can't compare a 1400 year old culture and civilaztion with todays because it's unfair due to the fact that 1400 years ago that was the norm of the society and people. It was very common 1400 years ago for women to get married at that age, infact it was praticed around the world not just by the arabs.

And the important thing to notice here, is the prophet pbuh had numerous enemies so many enemies and not one of them raised the issue of his marriage to the young girl as a point of criticism. And they were looking at every possible angle they could pick on to reduce his respect in the eyes of the people but they didn't pick at this marriage. This is because it was completely normal at the time everyone was doing it there was nothing wrong with it back then.

It's like this, in another 1400 years the people of the future may look back on us and say

"how could they let their women get legally married at the age of 18 that's so young what a backwards people"

but in todays society it's completely normal there's nothing wrong with it but in another 1400 years I doubt things will be as they are today. In another 1400 years it might be the norm for a women to get married at 27. Also scientists have actually proven that the age of puberty has actually risen throughout the generations this means that women matured alot sooner 1400 years ago then they do today.

Do you see what I am getting at? you can't compare a 1400 year old culture and civilization with todays standards and morals because it's completely changed. guaranteed if you lived 1400 years ago this wouldn't have been an issue for you, you would've been like "hey whats the big deal here I don't see the problem" because this was the norm of the time and society.

And about the slavery thing, I was told that Islam does not encourage slavery, it only encourages slavery to God, however during the time of the prophet pbuh the slave trade was a big part of the economy in arabia, it was big business buying and selling slaves and if it was abolished straight away over night the entire economy would collapse.

Just like if alcohol trade and cigarretts trade was abolished over night the impacts on the economy would be devastating,

so Islam doesn't encourage slavery instead it discouraged it and gave slaves numerous rights to the point where they were equal people, it wasn't even beneficial to have a slave due to the fact they had been given so many rights. One of the prophet's pbuh closest companions was an african ex slave whom the prophet's best friend purchased and set free.

Infact this is one of the reason's why the prophet pbuh had so many enemys at the time because he preached that all men are equal including slaves this outraged the people. And many times the slaves were punished physically for believing and following the prophets pbuh teaching.

If he was for slavery, I don't think many of the slaves of his time would have believed in his message and followed him

As I mentioned if Islam abolished slavery over night then the entire economy would collapse so what Islam did was make it a rewardble act to set a slave free. Many people in the time of the prophet pbuh set slaves free because it was classed as a good deed in the sight of god and rewardable.

and if they wern't set free then they pratically had equal rights as non slaves. This wasn't the case before Islam, before Islam they were seen as inferior beings not equal, dirt.

but after Islam they were seen as equal people deserving of rights and treated with respect, provided for and taken care of. There are many cases were slaves were set free by individuals as an act to please God showing that islam discouraged slavery.

I remember reading an article stating that when the slave trade eventually died out it became inpermissable to take anybody as a slave it was only in that time it was allowed but not in todays world.

Also post what you believe to be innaccurate errors in the Qur'an I'm sure 1 of the brothers will be able to clarify for you. People have been trying to find in accurate errors for the last 1400 years and instead have only found mis understanding with regards to what the verse is referring to/saying. It may be that your interpretation of what you believe to be the error is incorrect and some 1 will be able to explain what it actually means

many people are like "oh the qur'an says this and that and this is incorrect becase of x y and z"

but when some 1 explains to them then it becomes clear

 

[Afg]

^MashaAllah bro, couldnt have said it better.

 

[zakirs]

Bro ,

I have some posts which can probably remove your doubts if you read through them,

slavery - http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/32353-slavery.html

wifebeating -http://www.islamicboard.com/advice-support/134286550-wife-beating.html

The post of whethere islam allows beating wife was almost entirely handled by sisters (mashaallah) So , you might believe what islam says.

Good luck to you bro , wishing you clear your doubts soon

 

[جوري]

"you can't compare a 1400 year old culture and civilaztion with todays because it's unfair due to the fact that 1400 years ago that was the norm of the society and people. It was very common 1400 years ago for women to get married at that age, infact it was praticed around the world not just by the arabs.

Actually up to early of last century the young age of consent was very common, even here in the west..

American reformers were shocked to discover that the laws of most states set the age of consent at the age of ten or twelve, and in one state, Delaware, the age of consent was only seven. Women reformers and advocates of social purity initiated a campaign in 1885 to petition legislators to raise the legal age of consent to at least sixteen, although their ultimate goal was to raise the age to eighteen. The campaign was eventually quite successful; by 1920, almost all states had raised the age of consent to sixteen or eighteen


http://womhist.alexanderstreet.com/teacher/aoc.htm

and common in all religions..

Abishag Was a young virgin from the town of Shunem, North of Jezreel and Mount Gilboa, in the territory of Issachar. (Jos 19:17-23) She was "beautiful in the extreme" and was chosen by David's servants to become the nurse and companion of the king during his final days.
see 1Ki 1:1-4.
David was now about 70 years of age (2Sa 5:4, 5), and as a result of debilitation he had little body heat. Abishag waited on him during the day, doubtless brightening the surroundings with her youthful freshness and beauty, and at night she "lay in the king's bosom"

or

OT laws regarding marriage?


What is the minimum age of marriage according to Jewish law?
by Rabbi Naftali Silberberg

Our Sages state1 that "it is forbidden for one to marry off his daughter until she is an adult and says 'this is the one I want to marry.'" It is forbidden for one to marry off his daughter until she is an adult and says 'this is the one I want to marry'!
In ancient (and not so ancient) times however, marriage was often-times celebrated at a rather young age. Although we do not follow this dictum, technically speaking, a girl may be betrothed the moment she is born, and married at the age of three.2 A boy may betroth and marry at the age of thirteen.3 Add a comment
Footnotes

• 1. Talmud Kiddushin 41a.
• 2. Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 37:1.
• 3. Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 43:1.

What is the minimum age of marriage according to Jewish law? | AskMoses.com - Judaism, Ask a Rabbi - Live

When you walk by the old cemeteries say in England.. have a look at the ages of and the number of deaths per family..

you'll see that women didn't always survive child birth and that was a reason for multiple marriages, and that the children themselves didn't survive childhood and most of them would be dead before 9 and thus folks tried to have many children so if two or three survived it would be a blessing.. it was universal and for many reasons.. none which had to do with 'Islamic injunctions' It isn't an injunction to marry at puberty but an allowance .. that is how things were, even in the west until very recently not just an Arab practice centuries ago..

Time has given us fast cars and big screen TV's but seems to have at the same time rob us of our sense of wonder, sensibility and ability to reason..

 

[Muhaba]

Actually, there is an age of marriage in Islam. Allah says in the Quraan:

Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then you find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; But consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up... (Surah 4, Al-Nisa, verse 6)

So the age of marriage is the age when a person is mature and sound-minded enough that you can hand him/her their property.

As for slaves, it was allowed in case of prisoners of war. Instead of putting povs in prisons (like the veitnam war povs) they are made slaves, handed over to the Muslims who watch them and take care of them. This is far better than putting povs in prisons.

povs are the only ppl who can become slaves in islam because you can't enslave a free person and then sell him/her. If some nonmuslims kidnap a free person (like the europeans did when they were going to america via africa) and then sells the person to a muslim, you can't blame the muslim for the slavery. It was started by the kaafirs.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you anyabwile; and welcome to the forum.

You seem troubled about religion, but there is something nagging away in your head that won’t let you walk away totally. Scriptures come from God, and when they trouble you, it can mean you have not fully understood, you need to keep searching and asking questions. I found squiggle’s explanation helpful.

I was crying almost in the taxi home, a combination of perhaps my own male pride and my still unending curiosity's about the religion.

Scriptures are there to inspire you to do something, and you controlled your anger, the prophet pbuh, said that the stronger person is the one who controls their anger.

God works in mysterious ways, and God seems to have touched you in what you may feel is a moment of weakness. You must have been aware of Ramadan, and God does these things at a time when we take notice, I do not believe in coincidence when it comes to spiritual matters.

God chooses whom he wills, the same God seems to choose us through many diverse paths, and I fail to understand why.

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric

 

[Salahudeen]

Actually, there is an age of marriage in Islam. Allah says in the Quraan:

Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then you find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; But consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up... (Surah 4, Al-Nisa, verse 6)

So the age of marriage is the age when a person is mature and sound-minded enough that you can hand him/her their property.

As for slaves, it was allowed in case of prisoners of war. Instead of putting povs in prisons (like the veitnam war povs) they are made slaves, handed over to the Muslims who watch them and take care of them. This is far better than putting povs in prisons.

povs are the only ppl who can become slaves in islam because you can't enslave a free person and then sell him/her. If some nonmuslims kidnap a free person (like the europeans did when they were going to america via africa) and then sells the person to a muslim, you can't blame the muslim for the slavery. It was started by the kaafirs.

Mashallah I didn't know that ;D and grossamer skye's post, wow it's as close as the last century that youthfull marriages were seen to be ok I didn't realise. isn't it amazing how things change so vastly in the period of a 100 years.

I remember hearing an old man talk about life 60-70 years ago and he said society has completely changed, he said back then women used to dressed modestly like Muslim women do now, and some of them used to wear a little scarf around their head.

and he also said any women who slept around outside marriage was classed as a "*****" and any child born out of marriage was seen as a bad thing.

Isn't it amazing how things have changed today in that period of time, it's like society's been sexualised, little girls going to school wearing mini skirts +o(

anyway that's a topic for a different day, just mentioned it to show how things change so drastically in such a short period of time :hmm:

 

[cat eyes]

slave or servant its the same thing it bothered me also but we are talking about 1400years ya know what i am saying

 

[cat eyes]

Hello...:statisfie

Approx five years ago, i was a fully practising Muslim. (Revert) About that time five years ago, i left the religion. Troubled by many questions about (PBUH) The prophet, with regards to slavery, his young wife and what i saw as inaccurate errors in the Quran.

I am still highly sceptical. And have been for about five years until tonight. I was (to cut it short) challenged to a fight and i walked away. I am trained 3 and a half or so years in martial arts, and my pride (?) hit me, i walked away.

I am 5'10 15.10 stone, im a big guy (although i was bigger) this gent was about 5.7, very thin and i feel confident i could have "floored" him. My martial arts teacher is Muslim and never before in all my four years of studying martial arts have i been challenged, except tonight. I looked at the guy and walked away.

I was crying almost in the taxi home, a combination of perhaps my own male pride and my still unending curiosity's about the religion.

There is no point in lying at the moment i am not Muslim i am agnostic, too many things upset me about the Islamic religion (slavery and wife beating). But tonight's event struck a cord. Particularly with it being the month.

It felt different, the main factor was me walking away. never ever have i been challenged before and perhaps it was coincidence, or perhaps not. Tonight i walked away.

I am sceptical of Islam, the errors, and the prophet. But tonight has hit me hard. And it's the first time i have come back to being even close to returning to Islam in about five years.

Please don't take this post as me saying i am Muslim, im not. At the moment i am not. But tonight was powerful and i feel it may have been from a higher calling. it seems to me it was too much of a coincidence, (the holy month) for Islam and tonight events...

Perhaps tommorow i will wake with a clear head and it will be done. I don't want to be blindly Reverted (AGAIN). But someone who's (honestly) been where i am now, i would like to speak to

[Email Removed]

Thank you. Please don't be offended at my responses or questions but i feel everything has hit at a certain time..perhaps.

Thank you for reading, thank you...

:statisfie

but i understand you completely this is why my oldest brother dose not accept islam as being a true religion because he goes online and all he see's is scholars encouraging wife beating and he said how can you believe on this religion..

you see islam dose not encourage wife beating. the prophet mohammad pbuh never beat his wives.. you know its not easy to show islam correctly or even understand it with these type of black sheep muslims all over the world.. it puts so much confusion in the heart of a muslim and a non muslim

i am sure you have read in the holy qur'an in
surah an-nisa verse 34:
men are the protectors and maintainers of women.

surah an nisa in the same verse as for those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them (first),next,refuse to share their beds, and last slap them lightly if it is useful, but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means of ANNOYANCE. surely, Allah is most high, most great.

but as we all know arabic words have loads of different meanings, we cant just jump to conclusions on this topic as some muslims believe that they can transgress these limits and beat the hell out of there wife..you see to me the definition of light means something which dose not cause any pain and Allah has used this as the last option only. what really helped me was reading the hadiths of the prophet mohammad pbuh. i got a clear view on the whole thing Alhamdulilah

 

[markislam]

let me tell you one thing brother, in the olden days , recently even in india if you know about Gandhis mom she was married when she was 10 or something. in the olden days it was acceptable.

before i converted to Islam i also had the same questions but now i no longer have those questions.

 

[Salahudeen]

Yeah it's unfair to look at a past society and judge it based upon todays values and pratices.