problems with islamic history...

[sevgi]

i dont know if there are any history buffs out there or if anyone is studying it as i am but i just need some help understanding some things in the history of islam.

i think everyone knows about the 'treaty of Hudaybieh'. the way ive read about it and learnt about in islamic sources is that after the Qurayshi's of Mecca violated the treaty and the treaty was henceforth broken, Prophet Muhammed(saw) and his companions realised they could take over Mecca, so they did. When they did so, ive always been taught that the Meccans were scared of our prophet taking revenge...but all he does is forgive them and tell them that they could live freely in security amongs the muslims. Many of them convert to islam when they see this lovely behaviour.

BUT... the way i learn it in history at uni is that after our prophet (saw) takes over Mecca, he forces the meccans to convert....

this is quite a compelling situation for me as i need to write down the facts in history. i cant just "put in the truth" coz they dnt believe it the way that i do. when asked, i am in need of stating that meccans were forced into islam...CAN ANYONE CLEAR THIS UP FOR ME???:? :? :?

 

[lolwatever]

^ no that's not true, the evidence is stated in the quran... that the people of makkah where given till the end of the contract to remain on their religion.. after which they had a choice between accepting Islam or leaving makkah without harm. i.e. they wheren't forced into nething.

its in teh very beginnin of surat tawbah...

tc salams

 

[Dawud_uk]

assalaamu alaykum,

this exactly shows the reason why it is dangerous for muslims to go to establishments teaching like this, because if they do so they begin to respect their teachers to the extent they are even taking their deen from them!

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Nuseyba bintkab]

sister you should read islamic history book it tells about evey step about islamic history

 

[Dawud_uk]

sister you should read islamic history book it tells about evey step about islamic history

given the huge number of non muslims 'experts' on islam could i suggest maybe one of us could write a quirky book on christianity full of strange theories backed up with little or no evidence and then maybe we could get paid loads for appearing tv as an 'expert' on christianity?

of-course such a thing would be grossly unfair but why is it that the non-muslims are given the task of explaining islam then?

Abu Abdullah

 

[Akil]

The answer isn’t to shelter yourself inside Islamic schools, with Islamic books, listening to Islamic teachers say Islamic things about Islamic life. Islam was ruled the world when they read Plato, Socrates and Aristotle, alongside the Holy Quran, Muslim and Bakuri.

Never accept anything anyone says without evidence at any time for any reason, ever. Not a Kafir history teacher, not a Muslim Scholar.

Your teacher says something and you look it up and then agree or disagree; you look it up in Muslim sources, in Kafir sources, in every source you can’t get your hand on.

Then you’ll find out that Nabi Mohammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was a caravaner well known his honesty and his integrity and the city of Medina invited him to come lead them in an effort to stop blood feuds that had been going on for sometime. I believe his only stipulation was that they accept Islam which they did so willingly and of their own free will. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Dawud_uk]

The answer isn’t to shelter yourself inside Islamic schools, with Islamic books, listening to Islamic teachers say Islamic things about Islamic life. Islam was ruled the world when they read Plato, Socrates and Aristotle, alongside the Holy Quran, Muslim and Bakuri.

Never accept anything anyone says without evidence at any time for any reason, ever. Not a Kafir history teacher, not a Muslim Scholar.

Your teacher says something and you look it up and then agree or disagree; you look it up in Muslim sources, in Kafir sources, in every source you can’t get your hand on.

Then you’ll find out that Nabi Mohammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was a caravaner well known his honesty and his integrity and the city of Medina invited him to come lead them in an effort to stop blood feuds that had been going on for sometime. I believe his only stipulation was that they accept Islam which they did so willingly and of their own free will. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

other than the bit about greek philosophy then yes,

Abu Abdullah

 

[Malaikah]

Your teacher says something and you look it up and then agree or disagree; you look it up in Muslim sources, in Kafir sources, in every source you can’t get your hand on.

Do non-Muslims even have sources on Islamic history other than what the Muslims themselves gathered?^o)

 

[Dawud_uk]

Do non-Muslims even have sources on Islamic history other than what the Muslims themselves gathered?^o)

they're sources are from islam, but they read the islamic sources, put the worst possible spin on it and then reproduce it showing islam in a negative light.

they will also use rafadiyyah sources we wouldnt touch as we know their lying ways.

 

[Sabbir_1]

BUT... the way i learn it in history at uni is that after our prophet (saw) takes over Mecca, he forces the meccans to convert....

No that aint true, prophet muhammed s.a.w didn't not force them to convert.. islam was the true religion.. true always prevails.. they saw the beautiful character of muslims and of the prophet and they knew islam was the true religion.. some of them converted wright away but for others it took couple of months.. because they still had doubt in there minds.. ..

Most of these lecturers at uni who teach islamic studies.. get paid loads of money and give false info about islam.. they dont know nothing really they aint scholars.. they get there degree or phd and start teaching..

Best thing to do is find out for yourself about islamic history cuz these kaafis dont want you to know the truth.. about islamic history.. find out from other sources as well not just your lecturer..

I don't know why u confused about this. Muslims should know that the prophets character was not to force people to islam.. he was kind..saying he forced them.. which aint true creates doubt in person mind that he wasnt kind and that he forced people to islam... Study his seerah.. read the books written by the great scholars ibn kathir and others.. on the life of the prophets. l

 

[lolwatever]

Do non-Muslims even have sources on Islamic history other than what the Muslims themselves gathered?^o)

Actually that's what bewilders me, it's not like the pagans or ne1 else left behind any form of verifiable evidence... so how on earth do non Muslim historians come up with wacky versions of events that aren't backed up by any chain of narration watsoever :uuh:

 

[Akil]

Do non-Muslims even have sources on Islamic history other than what the Muslims themselves gathered?

Islam at its height had much influence on the western world and vice versa. There was a time in the past where Muslims and the rest of the world had much more contact. There are still sources from that time.

 

[Akil]

so how on earth do non Muslim historians come up with wacky versions of events that aren't backed up by any chain of narration whatsoever

Intentional, hateful, lies, propaganda and distortion. In a very real way this is the natural path of man kind.

 

[azim]

Asalaamu alaykum sis.

My suggestion is to look up a book called the History of Islam - it in three volumes, published by DARUSALAM. It may help.

My suggestion is to find the hadith where the Prophet (pbuh) granted the Makkans forgiveness, their property and wealth. Then I would try and find a scholar of the Quran to tell you which verses were revealed around that time. The aim of this is to be able to say in your work that the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) offered Islam (not forced it) and the people accepted, and using the Quran and Hadith as evidence that it was not forced upon them.

One good point to use is also that during the Apostasy Wars of Abu Bakr's reign - the people of Makkah did not leave the deen - meaning they took it seriously and accepted it of their own free will.

I know it can be difficult sometimes to have a teacher or lecturer talk about Islam in such a way, but it is our responsbility to not be emotionally effected - rather, approach it from an academic and critical point of you.

Also, ask your teacher for the evidence that Islam was forced upon them and study the view she/he provides closely.

 

[azim]

assalaamu alaykum,

this exactly shows the reason why it is dangerous for muslims to go to establishments teaching like this, because if they do so they begin to respect their teachers to the extent they are even taking their deen from them!

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

Asalaamu alaykum.

Someone once said "it is the sign of an intelligent mind to entertain a view without accepting it".

As Muslims, we shouldn't be afraid of exposing ourselves to those who have different beliefs to us, Islam is haq and truth always overcomes falsehood - a promise from the Quran. If we keep truth hidden, how will falsehood ever come to destruction?

 

[lolwatever]

^ i think he's saying we shouldn't expose ourselves to other views if we don't understand what Allah and his messenger say in the first place.

It's a bit like those Muslims who convert to other religions and they have no idea what Islam is about in first place... same with learning about other views and confusing yourself when you don't understand the basics of what Islam has to say about them before seeing what others say about "Islams teachings"

tc ws

 

[sevgi]

Do non-Muslims even have sources on Islamic history other than what the Muslims themselves gathered?^o)

sis, of course...most muslim texts are compiled by non muslims of the time. i know u aint studyn history...

 

[sevgi]

Asalaamu alaykum sis.

My suggestion is to look up a book called the History of Islam - it in three volumes, published by DARUSALAM. It may help.

My suggestion is to find the hadith where the Prophet (pbuh) granted the Makkans forgiveness, their property and wealth. Then I would try and find a scholar of the Quran to tell you which verses were revealed around that time. The aim of this is to be able to say in your work that the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) offered Islam (not forced it) and the people accepted, and using the Quran and Hadith as evidence that it was not forced upon them.

One good point to use is also that during the Apostasy Wars of Abu Bakr's reign - the people of Makkah did not leave the deen - meaning they took it seriously and accepted it of their own free will.

I know it can be difficult sometimes to have a teacher or lecturer talk about Islam in such a way, but it is our responsbility to not be emotionally effected - rather, approach it from an academic and critical point of you.

Also, ask your teacher for the evidence that Islam was forced upon them and study the view she/he provides closely.

can i know who authored this three peice history of islam?

 

[sevgi]

Actually that's what bewilders me, it's not like the pagans or ne1 else left behind any form of verifiable evidence... so how on earth do non Muslim historians come up with wacky versions of events that aren't backed up by any chain of narration watsoever :uuh:

well,,,they used to think we were the pagans.

and think about it...are u telling me that in medieval wars, two sides are fighting and people arent gna write about the doings, interactions and habits of the other side. there are tonnes of books like that.

take the Gesta Francorum...its a commemorative peiece written by a frank(most probably a knight)...in it is a whole lot of junk about muslims and how they were pagands and kept crying out "allachibar!!!" (allahuakbar) and how they would use stars and gods and astrology to determine fate etc...

 

[Malaikah]

sis, of course...most muslim texts are compiled by non muslims of the time. i know u aint studyn history...

But the only sources they gave are the hadith and quran! they just interprete things their own way, their sources are all Muslim sources!