Proof not Innocence

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Malsidabym

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There are times in discussions and disputes when people are 'proven' innocent. Or more to the point in many cases, not proven guilty. Many times the proof of innocence is just that, the lack of evidence to prove guilt.

If a person removes evidence themself, or influences authorities or investigators to remove evidence, through political pressure or whatever means, does this make them any less guilty? Certainly they may walk away without penalty, but is this innocence real?
More importantly, are they still guilty in God's eyes? Of course I say.

We see it everyday in courtrooms, in the media, and even in our own personal interactions with others. If you convince someone you did not do something that you really did (a child with thier parents, for example), won't you still feel the guilt? Or do some people not feel guilt? I often wonder this. Some feel guilt just observing others doing wrong. Keeps you honest I guess.

Any comments?
 
There are times in discussions and disputes when people are 'proven' innocent. Or more to the point in many cases, not proven guilty. Many times the proof of innocence is just that, the lack of evidence to prove guilt.
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LOL

That was funny cos u kept on going around circles, so did my brain...LOL

But No matter what, if a person is guilty, then he is always guilty......Removing some evidence wud b a form of cheating the law and being unjust.
 
That was funny cos u kept on going around circles, so did my brain...LOL
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Ha! sorry, you are right.
But No matter what, if a person is guilty, then he is always guilty......Removing some evidence wud b a form of cheating the law and being unjust.
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Agreed, perhaps cheating yourself too.
 
malsidabym said:
won't you still feel the guilt?
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i think that the person would still feel the guilt as it sticks to them like a flu at the tip of their nose which they would very much like to clear, but are not able to. this kind of feelings may also sometimes make the person paranoid because he/she may think that if her/his parents found out that he/she tols lies, what would happen. it makes the person worried and also may sometimes lead to temporary mental illness where the person likes to be totally alone and is not in a good mood.

^^ i really dunno what i wrote there....its from an experience i had a few days a go....i hope i made the right point :rollseyes i get carried away sometimes :heated:

:w:
 
Tagrid said:
i think that the person would still feel the guilt as it sticks to them like a flu at the tip of their nose which they would very much like to clear, but are not able to. this kind of feelings may also sometimes make the person paranoid because he/she may think that if her/his parents found out that he/she tols lies, what would happen. it makes the person worried and also may sometimes lead to temporary mental illness where the person likes to be totally alone and is not in a good mood.

^^ i really dunno what i wrote there....its from an experience i had a few days a go....i hope i made the right point :rollseyes i get carried away sometimes :heated:

:w:
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i hope i made the right point
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You make an excellent point Tagrid thank you for posting.
 
Hey.


I think this can have two sides to it.

For instance; there are two types of people; one may feel guilty after commiting the crime (and even though being proven innocent) may never want to go near to a situation like that again. Due to the guilt that they feel from it.

Whereas anther person may feel that they escaped, and were proven 'innocent'. And if they feel that the crime they commited was of benefit to them (i.e. lots of easy money) then they may stick to that, hoping that they won't get busted, or be proven innocent again. The only reason that really keeps them going is the love of the crime they are doing and because of its benefits (e.g. drugs, easy money, power etc.)


.. and Allaah Almighty knows best.
 
Malsidabym said:
There are times in discussions and disputes when people are 'proven' innocent. Or more to the point in many cases, not proven guilty. Many times the proof of innocence is just that, the lack of evidence to prove guilt.

If a person removes evidence themself, or influences authorities or investigators to remove evidence, through political pressure or whatever means, does this make them any less guilty? Certainly they may walk away without penalty, but is this innocence real?
More importantly, are they still guilty in God's eyes? Of course I say.

We see it everyday in courtrooms, in the media, and even in our own personal interactions with others. If you convince someone you did not do something that you really did (a child with thier parents, for example), won't you still feel the guilt? Or do some people not feel guilt? I often wonder this. Some feel guilt just observing others doing wrong. Keeps you honest I guess.

Any comments?
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Innocent until proven guilty is such an important rule that you cannot discard of it - ever. Even if some get away, it is better than innocent being condemned.

More to the point however - guilt would only exist if you believe that you've done wrong. As humans, right and wrong is relative. Thus, so is guilt.
 
azim said:
Innocent until proven guilty is such an important rule that you cannot discard of it - ever. Even if some get away, it is better than innocent being condemned.

More to the point however - guilt would only exist if you believe that you've done wrong. As humans, right and wrong is relative. Thus, so is guilt.
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Very true, and some good points.
guilt would only exist if you believe that you've done wrong
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The problem is that some people are quick to judge others yet on the same issues when applied to themselves, are just as you put here. They don't believe that "they" have done anything wrong.
 
Malsidabym said:
The problem is that some people are quick to judge others yet on the same issues when applied to themselves, are just as you put here. They don't believe that "they" have done anything wrong.
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Yeah, I think we're all guilty of that at least once.

I think deep down, we all view ourselves higher than others. Our life, our family, our wealth, is more important then the life, family and wealth of others.

Almost everyone/thing teaches "all men are equal" yet few do anything to instill and develop this belief.

:rollseyes Off on a bit of a tangent there.
 
azim said:
Yeah, I think we're all guilty of that at least once.

I think deep down, we all view ourselves higher than others. Our life, our family, our wealth, is more important then the life, family and wealth of others.

Almost everyone/thing teaches "all men are equal" yet few do anything to instill and develop this belief.

:rollseyes Off on a bit of a tangent there.
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Off on a bit of a tangent there
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Yes, but it supports the point. It is still on topic. This instilled 'self-centered' view is almost impossible to escape. "I" have reasoned this out, and "I" know "I" am right.
 
Fi_Sabilillah said:
Hey.


I think this can have two sides to it.

For instance; there are two types of people; one may feel guilty after commiting the crime (and even though being proven innocent) may never want to go near to a situation like that again. Due to the guilt that they feel from it.

Whereas anther person may feel that they escaped, and were proven 'innocent'. And if they feel that the crime they commited was of benefit to them (i.e. lots of easy money) then they may stick to that, hoping that they won't get busted, or be proven innocent again. The only reason that really keeps them going is the love of the crime they are doing and because of its benefits (e.g. drugs, easy money, power etc.)


.. and Allaah Almighty knows best.
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Ah yes, good. But do you think perhaps the second person you describe is the one I mentioned that does not feel guilt? People that behave as they want, just so long as they can get away with thier actions, get what they want, and have others think they are "innocent"?
 
:sl:

Some people can get away with murder... :heated:
Something I hear alot, that I actually agree with, which on the other hand is very sad to admit... :(

My comment is a bit off topic, but I just had to say it...

:w:
 
Malsidabym said:
Ah yes, good. But do you think perhaps the second person you describe is the one I mentioned that does not feel guilt? People that behave as they want, just so long as they can get away with thier actions, get what they want, and have others think they are "innocent"?
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I do believe that every person naturally feels guilty after their first try. No matter who the person is. This feeling is naturally in mans fitrah [conscience to differentiate between wrong and right] but as the person keeps commiting the crime, they don't feel as guilty as they did the previous time, and if this carries on - it will get to a stage where they will feel it's normal, and may not feel as guilty.


[Islamically, a persons heart is pure when their innocent, but as they commit evil, their heart goes darker with each evil they commit, and when they keep sinning - their hearts pureness is covered with darkness, which makes it hard to differentiate between wrong and right. But if the person changes themselves (for the better), the darkness that covered their heart will be removed gradually, as long as they keep doing good and turning away from evil.

Hence - the purer the heart, the more they will feel guilty if they did do evil. So they will prepare to repent quick (a way of removing the black soot that is covering the heart.) And will prepare to do more good instead.]


and Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
 
im sure there are men out there that feel no guilt for the corruption they spread (bush, sheron and other stupid fat people), but im sure most people feel heavy guilt but this is never enough to alow themselves to expose the truth and get thrown into prison.... lol i dont think any1 is that pure... muslims may be :) ITTAKULLAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:sl:
 
bro thats not nice to say bush, sheron and other stupid fat people :heated: :heated:

take care
 
'innocent until proven guilty' :thumbs_up like tht quote !

me..........i just feel soooooooo guilty if i do even the slightest wrong tht causes others displeasure...........:-[
 

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