Prophets, Sins and Lies

[Nicola]

The verse itself says that God sends the delusion (or deception in NLT); now if you want to say that God deceives through the evil one, that is fine but clearly the New Testament has no hesitation attributing the evil one's deception to God. The passage states in no uncertain terms that God does deceive and causes some to believe in a lie. How He does that and why is a seperate issue.

No Christain believes God is deceptive...if you believe God is, that is your opionion which ever one should be entitled to.

Yes, when Muslims pray for maghfirah the meaning encompasses both forgiveness for our shortcomings and protection from them as well.
No. We are not protected from sins as much as the Prophets. Which answers your next question too. Protection from sin does not mean that we are not accountable for sins; it means that we are protected from falling into them. The Prophets have been protected from falling into sins but not minor mistakes. And remember the shortcomings of prophets are not like our shortcomings. For them, not doing the best righteous deed is a shortcoming.

No where in the Bible does it state...prophets get an easier ride than the rest of us...in reference to sin, many prophets disobeyed God and where punished for it...we are told offen enough God hates all sins and that I can understand. If we break one of his commandments we are sinning.

But Jesus was not restraining his anger here at all. He lashed out insulting them as serpents, blind fools and vipers. In fact in the verse you quoted it says that Jesus said:
and whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
He did not make any exception in the above verse. And yet Jesus does not hesitate to call the Jews blind fools!

That is your opinion...Jesus wasn't angry enough to murder anyone.

Does it matter if someone calls you a house dog or a wild dog?! Being called a dog is extremely offensive and degrading. If a Christian calls a gentile a dog is that not considered a sin?

If it was meant in a degrading way..then yes..I expect calling people pigs and monkeys is extremely offensive and degrading to some people and could also be called sinful.

So which part of the God-man died? The God part or the man part?

This would be going off topic.

You protest when I take Paul's statements out of textual context yet you have no hesitation to rob these incidents of their historical context. Double standards?

No I didn't protest at all...I was teaching you... about a few verses of scripture .the meaning behind the one sentence you quoted.
That was all...I have nothing to protest about, you wanted to understand what it meant and I told you...why should I be protesting about that..

It is up to you whether you believe me or not...if you check with any Bible study from a Christian site you will see it will give you the same message. Even though you do not believe the Bible anyways...It will give you the same message.

I'm not robbing the historical context of your prophets' history far from it!...I have read it and understood it, the point is I don't agree with his methods of spreading peace, which is a completely different thing all together IMO..

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

When we try and interpret our own faith we always seem to search for the greatest good meaning, yet when we interpret other people’s faith, somehow we loose this need to look for what is good in others

I feel a great sadness in the way we seem to compete and have a desire to almost ridicule other faiths.

If we truly desire peace on Earth then I believe we have to look for what is best in others.

In the spirit of seeking a greater interfaith understanding and friendship.

Eric

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hello Nicola,

No Christain believes God is deceptive...if you believe God is, that is your opionion which ever one should be entitled to.

It's not a matter of opinion it is what the New Testament say - God deceives.

No where in the Bible does it state...prophets get an easier ride than the rest of us

.I didn't say that they got an easier ride I said that they had it much much harder than all of us since for them, not doing the most righteous deeds would be a shortcoming, unlike for us.

If we break one of his commandments we are sinning.

And the Prophet Muhammad pbuh never broke any commandments.

That is your opinion...Jesus wasn't angry enough to murder anyone.

Again, it is not a matter of opinion, it is a clear cut contradiction. Jesus says that whoever calls someone a fool is guilty enough to go to hell yet on the other hand he himself refers to the jews as 'blind fools' [according to the NT].

If it was meant in a degrading way..then yes

When is calling someone a dog not offensive?

..I expect calling people pigs and monkeys is extremely offensive and degrading to some people and could also be called sinful.

Muslims are not to call anyone pigs and monkeys. Another misconception.

This would be going off topic.

Then I wouldn't mind discussing it with you in another thread.

No I didn't protest at all...I was teaching you... about a few verses of scripture .the meaning behind the one sentence you quoted.
That was all...I have nothing to protest about, you wanted to understand what it meant and I told you...why should I be protesting about that..

Protest means to express one's objection or strong disapproval towards something. You objected to my quotation on the basis that I had neglected to consider the textual context, which is fine, but then we should expect that you will do the same when it comes to the life of Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

I'm not robbing the historical context of your prophets' history far from it!...I have read it and understood it, the point is I don't agree with his methods of spreading peace, which is a completely different thing all together IMO..

Like I said, he was not killed for personal grievances but because of his involvement in instigating the military campaigns against the Muslims.

Regards

 

[nimrod]

Is the word "decive" always interchangable with "deceitful"?

That is the crux of this thread, isn't it?

Thanks
Nimrod

 

[mikeengland]

Well since my last post has been Edited and Locked http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/23951-muhammad-true-prophet-3.html
I am told to continue my allegations here. Since This seems to be the topic of muhammad and Sin/Lies I will continue.

First of all I would like to point out that directing me to hyperlinks to other websites does not attone for the Evidence of Quranic/Hadith Verses.
So if you please I do not wish to hear EXCUSES hyperlinks or unscriptual evidence and Lies.

Now this is what it says about muhammads sins.

"Muhammad replied..."O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." Volume 1, number 711. See also (Quran 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19)

O set me apart FROM MY SINS says muhammad. here he is admitting he has sins and need's to be set apart from them.

The Quran confirms this also In (40:55, 48:2, and 47:19).

your rebuttal can be:

1, Other Quranic/Hadith verses that say the opposite.
If this is true then this prooves contradiction in both hadith and Quran.

2, Excuses of non-Scriptual support.

3, Hyperlinks to websites Swarming with lies and tell tale Stories.

Muhammad was a Sinner he says it, the Quran says it, and Hadith says it.

But you deny it? Therefore you deny Muhammad and everything written in it.

case closed.

 

[mikeengland]

I have asked Mr Ansar Al-'Adl
to provide me with proof of Muhammads Existence.

So Again I ask you Mr Ansar Al-'Adl For proof of the existence of Muhammad?
Check out these 7th century arabic inscriptions:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/His...nscriptions/#2

ok ive checked out that website and it doesn't mention muhammad at all...
they only mention abu bakar and so forth.

none of these so called inscriptions metioned Muhammad even once.?

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Now this is what it says about muhammads sins.

"Muhammad replied..."O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." Volume 1, number 711. See also (Quran 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19)

O set me apart FROM MY SINS says muhammad. here he is admitting he has sins and need's to be set apart from them.

I responded to this four times but you ignored it each time. Allow me to summarize yet again:

1. The verse and hadith states that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh sought Maghfirah from his dhanb

• dhanb is a term which carries the meanings of error, mistake, fault, shortcoming, sin, etc. It does not distinguish between major or minor. The term can be used for both.
• Maghfirah implies not only forgiveness, but protection as well, as it is derived from the same root as the shielding helmet.

2. These verses and ahadith confirm that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh was commanded to seek forgiveness and protection from any shortcomings or mistakes. Nowhere in these texts is there any support for the claim that the Prophet pbuh was a sinful person or a sinner. All that it states is that he was to seek forgiveness for his shortcomings.

3. The shortcomings of the Prophets are not like the shortcomings of ordinary people. The Prophets are expected to adhere to a much higher standard of conduct. A shortcoming for the Prophets does not necessitate a bad deed, it can be not performing as many good deeds as they were able to.

4. From the Islamic perspective then, the Prophets were completely infallible in conveying the message - they made neither major nor minor mistakes in that. They were infallible and protected from commiting major sins as well. The only thing they were not infallible for was minor mistakes, i.e. a temporary lapse in human judgement. That is all that is being confirmed above.​

So in conclusion, the verses and ahadith state that Prophet Muhammad pbuh sought forgiveness for his shortcomings, which is something acknowledged by all Muslims. The shortcomings of the Prophets are judged in terms of a much higher standard than for ordinary people. Muslims believe that the Prophets were infallible only in conveying the message and when it came to major sins. They were susceptible to making minor mistakes.

1, Other Quranic/Hadith verses that say the opposite.
If this is true then this prooves contradiction in both hadith and Quran.

2, Excuses of non-Scriptual support.

3, Hyperlinks to websites Swarming with lies and tell tale Stories.

As can be seen from the above, I have done none of this. I have simply explained to you how the term dhanb is understood with reference to the Prophets.

Moreover, Christians have even more to answer for when it comes to how the Prophets are depicted in the Bible. Noah gets drunk, Lot sleeps with his daughters, and David commits adultery. All of these are major sins, and according to Islam none of these Prophets would have fallen into such manifest evil. Prophets can only make minor human mistakes, not such major sins.

Also, the claim that Jesus was sinless does not hold weight either.

Jesus says: "and whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." (Matthew 5:22)
And yet Jesus also says: You fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? (Matthew 23:17)
Can you see the contradiction between these verses? The first states that if someone says "you fool" to someone else, then they are guilty of hell, and in the second verse Jesus does it himself!!

ok ive checked out that website and it doesn't mention muhammad at all...
they only mention abu bakar and so forth.

none of these so called inscriptions metioned Muhammad even once.?

You evidently didn't look hard enough:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/abasa.html
The above one says:

confessing that there is no god but Allah

alone without partner and that

Muhammad is His servant and His apostle,

may Allah grant him peace.​

Regards

 

[mikeengland]

2. These verses and ahadith confirm that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh was commanded to seek forgiveness and protection from any shortcomings or mistakes. Nowhere in these texts is there any support for the claim that the Prophet pbuh was a sinful person or a sinner. All that it states is that he was to seek forgiveness for his shortcomings.

3. The shortcomings of the Prophets are not like the shortcomings of ordinary people. The Prophets are expected to adhere to a much higher standard of conduct. A shortcoming for the Prophets does not necessitate a bad deed, it can be not performing as many good deeds as they were able to.

4. From the Islamic perspective then, the Prophets were completely infallible in conveying the message - they made neither major nor minor mistakes in that. They were infallible and protected from commiting major sins as well. The only thing they were not infallible for was minor mistakes, i.e. a temporary lapse in human judgement. That is all that is being confirmed above.

So in conclusion, the verses and ahadith state that Prophet Muhammad pbuh sought forgiveness for his shortcomings, which is something acknowledged by all Muslims. The shortcomings of the Prophets are judged in terms of a much higher standard than for ordinary people. Muslims believe that the Prophets were infallible only in conveying the message and when it came to major sins. They were susceptible to making minor mistakes.

Dear Mr Ansan

Again you have made excuses for the Scriptual Verses. you can say as many words in different languages as you please. This DOES NOT alter The Scriptures. Again I have been plagued with lies and excuses for Muhammad.

Also Yes I have Looked Hard at that Link and it does not mention even once muhammad at all or the existence of him.
SEE you can't even find any real evidence on the Existence of muhammad.
(Search but you will not find) Therefore you Preaching about a Man who is supposed to be a Prophet. And you cant even give me 1 piece of evidence he even existed?

Again you have Lied mr Ansan
As for editing and locking my posts I have a full copy of all of it.

But as for editing my Last post because I proved you Wrong.

The Torah are the first 5 books of the Bible which is the revelation passed down to Moses. now you Agree on the revelation given to Moses the Torah,

IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT WHEN YOU AREGUMENTS FAIL YOU, YOU RESORT TO WRITING PERVERTED LIES ABOUT THE PROPHET PBUH - SO MUCH FOR LOVE AND FRIENDSHIP!

Muhhamad fails the test of Prophethood.

I will Add this post onto The continued "Was muhammad a true prophet"

Thank-you mr Ansan
May the True God have Mercy on you.
Mike

ps I have also met God Like millions of born again christians will tell you.
Your arguments fail you, so you resort to insulting the Prophet pbuh

SCRIPTURE'S MR ANSAN NOT NONSENSE dribble lies and twisting what the Quran/Hadith States. and directions that this means that, and that means this and this website proves it.... COME ON NOW...

Again for the 3rd time I ASK YOU mr ANSAN show me 1 proof of muhammads existence PLEASE.:grumbling

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

MikeEngland,
The topic of this thread relates to the infallibility of the Prophets. You have chosen in your last post to throw insults at the Prophet Muhammad pbuh including perverted comments about private parts. Your disgusting comments only do a disservice to your own religion. I will not respond likewise since the Prophet pbuh said: The Muslim does not slander, curse, speak obscenely, or speak rudely. (Tirmidhi)
Apparently you have no comparable teachings in your religion.

When you return to the forum tommorrow you will have the opportunity to respond specifically to the arguments related to this thread. If you persist in using petty insults a third time you will be banned permanently and everyone will see how your posts are devoid of intellectual arguments but filled with hateful drivel. The choice is yours.

Again you have made excuses for the Scriptual Verses. you can say as many words in different languages as you please. This DOES NOT alter The Scriptures.

I have made no excuses. The scripture is in arabic so I have explained to you the arabic terms. You have chosen not to accept my explanation because of your own obstinacy to the truth.

Again I have been plagued with lies and excuses for Muhammad.

You have plagued this forum with lies against Porphet Muhammad pbuh. Your biggest lie was your initial claim that you wanted friendly and even loving debate. Instead, when your initial arguments were shattered and exposed for the junk they were, you became desperate and tried to paste as many different allegations as you could find on the internet. When I prevented you from doing so and challenged you to take up one allegation at a time, your posts deteriorated entirely and you excreted petty insults and slanderous remarks onto the forum.

Also Yes I have Looked Hard at that Link and it does not mention even once muhammad at all or the existence of him.

Are you visually impaired? I pasted the info for you from the link!

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/abasa.html
It says:

confessing that there is no god but Allah

alone without partner and that

Muhammad is His servant and His apostle,

may Allah grant him peace.​

So much for not mentioning Muhammad pbuh at all!

Again you have Lied mr Ansan

Quite clealry you have lied repeatedly about almost everything you have written on, such as the above example -lying that Prophet Muhammad buh was not mentioned in the link!

But as for editing my Last post because I proved you Wrong.

You have done anything but prove me wrong. You have been devastated completely, your facade of friendly debate was torn from you and the reality of your intellectual vacuum exposed.

The Torah are the first 5 books of the Bible which is the revelation passed down to Moses. now you Agree on the revelation given to Moses the Torah

No they are not, the original revelation of Moses pbuh has been altered and corrupted.

Muhhamad fails the test of Prophethood.

Muhammad pbuh passes the test in every aspect. His message, his teachings, his miracles, his life, his prophecies. Take the wool of your eyes and enter the truth.

I will Add this post onto The continued "Was muhammad a true prophet"

You will do nothing of the sort. You will be restricted to discussing one allegation at a time to expose your shallow arguments and poor reasoning. You will not be able to turn to the familiar tactics of posts hundreds of allegations at once or resorting to fabricated insults. Everything you post must be backed up with a source.

ps I have also met God Like millions of born again christians will tell you.

Your immature and petty insults show otherwise.

and directions that this means that, and that means this and this website proves it....

You mean it was too difficult for you to understand even after I broke it down into such basic points?

Again for the 3rd time I ASK YOU mr ANSAN show me 1 proof of muhammads existence PLEASE.:grumbling

Calm down and click this link.
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/abasa.html
It is an inscription mentioning his name.

And no answer for this?

Also, the claim that Jesus was sinless does not hold weight either.

Jesus says: "and whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." (Matthew 5:22)
And yet Jesus also says: You fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? (Matthew 23:17)
Can you see the contradiction between these verses? The first states that if someone says "you fool" to someone else, then they are guilty of hell, and in the second verse Jesus does it himself!!

See you tomorrow.

 

[mikeengland]

Well This is not evidence of the EXISTENCE of Muhammad.
how can a quranic sura be proof ?
when I am asking for outside non-islamic proof of the person of muhammad.?

If someone Died believing muhammad and put his name on a stone would this be evidence of his existence?

No they are not, the original revelation of Moses pbuh has been altered and corrupted.

Who by? The Jewish Torah predates Muhammad and Islam by 1,000 - 3,000 years. So only muhammad and the Quran is the source of corruption.

 

[Abdullah4ever]

If he didnt die who invented him ? Who invented his Sunnah? Where did the quran come from??

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Well This is not evidence of the EXISTENCE of Muhammad.
how can a quranic sura be proof ?

First of all, I did not give you a surah from the Qur'an, I gave you a 7th century inscription. Secondly, the Qur'an, the Ahadith, the inscriptions are all evidence of his existence because they all point to the historical existence of an individual named Muhammad, and additionally tell us very much information about who he was, what his message was, what his teachings were. The Qur'an and Ahadith have been preserved exactly, allowing us complete certainty in this matter. There are a few historians who are skeptical about the existence of Jesus, but with Muhammad this notion isn't raised at all because of the voluminous amount of information we have from his time including his teachings.

when I am asking for outside non-islamic proof of the person of muhammad.?

An inscription is non-islamic. But there is a fallacy in your question and that is that the biggest proof of his existence is Islam, and the Islamic texts, hence all historians are agreed about this matter.

If someone Died believing muhammad and put his name on a stone would this be evidence of his existence?

Yes, the inscriptions are evidence that there was someone named Muhammad in the 7th century and that he was considered to be the Prophet of God, hence confirming what is found in the Islamic texts.

Who by? The Jewish Torah predates Muhammad and Islam by 1,000 - 3,000 years.

Ask Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 8:8 How can you say, 'We are wise,*And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes*Has made it into a LIE.

Read about the textual integrity of the Bible here:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Bible/Text/BibleTex.html

So only muhammad and the Quran is the source of corruption.

Incorrect. The Qur'an and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh have been preserved for us exactly 100% as they were over 1400 years ago. So no corruption or alteration like the OT or NT.

The preservation of the Qur'an is something agreed upon by even the most ardent opponents of Islam!

This Text of the Qur'an is the purest of all works of alike antiquity' (Wherry, Commentary on the Koran, I. p. 349).

'Othman's recension has remained the authorised text from the time it was made until the present day' (Palmer, The Qur'an, p. lix).

'The text of this recension substantially corresponds to the actual utterances of Muhammad himself' (Arnold, Islamic Faith, p. 9).

'All sects and parties have the same text of the Qur'an' (Hurgronje, Mohammedanism, p. 18).

'It is an immense merit in the Kuran that there is no doubt as to its genuineness That very word we can now read with full confidence that it has remained unchanged through nearly thirteen hundred years' (LSK., p.3)

'The recension of 'Othman has been handed down unaltered. There is probably in the world no other work which has remained twelve centuries with so pure a text' (Muir, Life of Mohammed, pp. XXII-XXIII).

'In the Kuran we have, beyond all reasonable doubt, the exact words of Mohammed without subtraction and without addition' (Bosworth Smith, Mohammamed and Mohammedanism, p. 22)

'The Koran was his own creation; and it lies before us practically unchanged from the form which he himself gave it' (Torrey, Jewish Foundations of Islam, p.2).

'Modern critics agree that that the copies current today are almost exact replicas of the original mother-text as compiled by Zayd, and that, on the whole, the text of the Koran todaay is as Muhammad prodcued it. As some Semitic scholar remarked, there are probably more variations in the reading of one chapter of Genesis in Hebrew than there are in the entire Koran' (Hitti, History of the Arabs, p. 123).​

I see that despite your short break you still can't replace petty insults with rational arguments so we will grant you another vacation.

Regards

 

[duskiness]

The Qur'an and Ahadith have been preserved exactly, allowing us complete certainty in this matter. There are a few historians who are skeptical about the existence of Jesus, but with Muhammad this notion isn't raised at all because of the voluminous amount of information we have from his time including his teachings.

i doubt it's a news for you Ansar, but many scholars don't accept Ahadith (why not "hadith", "ahadith" is that plural:? ) as reliable source about Muhammad's life.
And i think i came across one that claimed He didn't exist (you have to trust me on that, because i doubt i could find it now...)
And there are some that reject "traditional" biography of your Prophet.

to make it shorter: statment that "this notion isn't raised at all because of the voluminous amount of information" is not the most exact one.
But i would agree that majority accept Muhammed's existence. Just not all...

The preservation of the Qur'an is something agreed upon by even the most ardent opponents of Islam!

- Ansar, you have never-ever come across some Quran's critics?
They really exist.

I see that despite your short break you still can't replace petty insults with rational arguments so we will grant you another vacation.

isn't such a manner of adressing someone called in english "spiteful"? Especialy if one is in power to "grant vacation" to whoever he wills?
n.

 

[DAWUD_adnan]

hey christians, didnt the prophets of old like noah and moses and ibrahim preach monotisme ( ONE TRUE GOD)? then how come all of a sudden you take a man and put him on high( if you know what i mean) didnt God punish people because they forgot HIM and worshiped idols ? isnt that what christianity tells you? OW

there is another thing the Holy Quran is the Word of Allah He is DIRECTLY speaking to us but the bible focuses on more the story of jesus then the people them self unless off course im wrong.

and what muslims find offending is that some evil people have depicted the prophets may peace and blessings be upon each of them especially Muhammad( the praised one) , calling noah drunk and david a aldulterer dont you think that this would be the word of a people who would hate the message of Allah and then speak evil of the just ones ? the biblehas more then 10.000 diffrences between the first testament and the current bible why make these changes?

why would God all of a sudden take a son (AsTAGHFIRULLAH) Allah's majesty is higher and exalted above all that you assictaite with HIM

THINK about it Allah SO POWERFULL he created Adam from NOTHING why not believe that He created Jesus without a father? are you people questioning Allah's Powers? did HE not create EVERYTHING? HEAVEN HELL ALL !

what is wrong with you? i cant understand it ! How judge ye?

All the prophets were sent to SHOW the people that Allah is the ONE TRUE GOD and that He alone should be worshiped ! why a son? ae you crazy? christians are worshippign a man on a CROSS,
this is IDOLTRY excatly what ALLAH does not want! .... even if jesus was crusifide why worship him having pain and suffering isnt that EVIL? ALlah told us that His prophets were honourable each and everyone one of them... He Himself educated the prophets he never makes mistakes .
chirstians calling themself just..... how can you be just insulting the Message and messengers? see how islam( SUBMITTING ONES SELF TO ALLAH) means love ? and respect of prophets? just look at the word ISLAM SUBMISSION TO ALLAH is there any other religion that is named like this? isnt this what the prophets were people of ALLah? SSUBMITTING PATIENT LOVVING ?
I CANT EVEN SPELLL RIGHT TOO MUCH IN MY HEAD !
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh i dont mean to offend anyone Allah would want that but i just cant get it !

 

[DAWUD_adnan]

im tired
!

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

i doubt it's a news for you Ansar, but many scholars don't accept Ahadith

The problem here is who are you referring to as 'scholars' ? There is no scholar of the hadith sciences who has said that the hadith are unreliable. Some people uneducated in hadith sciences have made such claims, but they have been conclusively debunked by Muslim scholars in many works (see links here, a good article debunking myths here). For one's judgement to be carry wieght on the subject, they must be an authority on that subject. None of the scholars or experts in hadith sciences have said they are not a reliable source.

(why not "hadith", "ahadith" is that plural:? )

Yes, Ahâdîth is the arabic plural of Hadîth.

And i think i came across one that claimed He didn't exist

My comments early on authorities applies here as well.

And there are some that reject "traditional" biography of your Prophet.

The biography has been authentically preserved down to the most specific details about the Prophet pbuh in the Qur'an and the Ahadith.

- Ansar, you have never-ever come across some Quran's critics?
They really exist.

I come across them on a regular basis. See the following posts where some claims were refuted on the forum:
http://www.islamicboard.com/27163-post2.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/49781-post27.html
My point was that even the most ardent opponents of Islam had to admit to its preservation; of course there will be many less educated who will make these kinds of allegations.

isn't such a manner of adressing someone called in english "spiteful"?

If you knew what perverted and offensive material he posted about Islam and the Prophet pbuh, you would see that I have been anything but spiteful in responding to him.

Anyway, the issue of the preservation of Islamic sources or the existence of Prophet Muhammad pbuh is not directly related to this thread, so we will keep this thread for the discussion on 'Prophets, Sins and Lies'.

 

[Hijrah]

Re: Do jewish believe in Prophet Muhammad(PBUH)

Hey Nicola.


First of all, our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) never sinned at all.


Whenever Allah's Apostle ordered the Muslims to do something, he used to order them deeds which were easy for them to do, (according to their strength endurance). They said, "O Allah's Apostle! We are not like you. Allah has forgiven your past and future sins."

[sahih bukhari - volume 1 book 2 number 19]


In islam, prophets do not commit sins anyway, so i don't understand where you got that idea from?





We believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) was sinless (because he was a prophet - and like i mentioned earlier, prophets don't have any sin.)

I don't understand how he was only half flesh, is that because he was born without a father?




Please can i have some evidence for that? To prove from the islamic law that he (peace be upon him) commited a sin? And i still don't understand the concept of full flesh and half flesh, sorry.





I think you need to realise the whole story to find out what this hadith is actually about.

Ka'b bin Ashraf was a man who was causing corruption and propaganda between the pagan arabs, and the jewish people from Medina about the muslims. He would lie about the muslims, and use his poetry (which was the most powerful media at that time) to make people go against the muslims, he even went to the extent of saying rude things about the wives of the companions of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him.)


This was going way too far, and in islam - it is permissible to defend yourself if people are attacking you (whether its through physical means, financial, social etc.) So instead of just letting him get away with it, our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) ordered that he should be assasinated [Yes it is permissible in islam if the person is attacking you] before Ka'b went any further in his attacks.


The following conversation took place between our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his companion;

"Muhammad bin Maslama [the one who would assasinate Ka'b] got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it,"



And like we've mentioned before in an earlier hadith;


"Lying is wrong, except in three things: ...a lie in war, for war is deception;

Transmitted by Ahmad and Tirmidhi.
Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 5033


Can you imagine a war without deception? Do you think if two armies are at war, do you think telling your enemy the truth is going to make you victorious?

This is the reason why it is permissible to lie in cases such as war, without it - you're going to lose easily.


There have been many cases in the bible where war has been mentioned so much times.

Most people think that islam is a religion full of violence, but one tool thats been used throughout history in battles is the sword. The word 'sword' hasn't been used once in the Qur'an, but in the bible - its been mentioned 434 times.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/1797-sword-christ.html?highlight=sword


So islam isn't the only faith that allows to kill, if the enemy attacks you. Its your right to defend yourself, and that is exactly what islam allows.

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors. (Qur'an 2:190)





Isn't that contradicting what it says in Matthew:

“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a SWORD. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes [shall be] they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me” (Matthew 10:34-37).


I hope you understand what i mean, and please don't feel that i'm trying to attack your faith - but i'm just trying to make it clear that nearly all faiths allow self defence, and so does christianity, even if it means defending yourself with the sword.


Peace.

Yes, not only that Kab incite people to murder Muhammad(PBUH)

And yes, he did sin, it's what it says in Surah Abasa, but all his sis are forgiven that's why he is considered sinless, obviously he is still a man, just like other prophets who sinned (Adam, Moses etc.)

 

[Allah-creation]

I am curious and amazed why people reject prophet Muhammad(PBUH)exitense. Surely, it is hard to believe that over one billion people believe and learn from a man that doesn't exist. I've seen the Propthet's grave multiple times and prayed at the mosque he preached and prayed in. And i heard somewhere that he was nominated the most successful man in the world.