questions/doubts about Shariah, Islamic Ettiquette

[Serinity]

I made this thread cuz this is really bothering me. Any scholar welcomed to help answer this.

The reason we'd protect the rights of gays and lesbians is because they're sinners but we're sinners too and we do not have a right to judge their sins. In Islam, we're all considered to be sinning differently (degrees might be different in less or more). Please see my former post "Hate the sin, not the sinner" with proof of how this is an Islamic attitude.

I have a question to this. Please do read this, cuz I am having a doubt atm. So what about when Umar :ra: said:


“People were judged by the revelation [which shows the ruling about what they did] during the lifetime of the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) but now there is no longer any revelation.Now we judge you by the deeds that you practice publicly, so we will trust and favor the one who does good deeds in front of us, and we will not call him to account about what he is really doing in secret, for Allaah will judge him for that; meanwhile, we will not trust or believe the one who appears to us with an evil deed, even if he claims that his intentions were good.”

[Sahih Al-Bukhaari]

Judging by the apparent. This seems to contradict what you say. :/

I quote from your post:

'Abd Allah was would be frequently so drunk that he had to be brought staggering through the streets to be sentenced by Prophet :saws:(peace and blessings be upon him) for public drunkenness and this act was a common occurrence. Once when 'Abd Allah had departed from one of the frequent instances of having been sentenced as recorded in hadith (prophetic tradition), one of the Companions declared in reference to 'Abd Allah, "O Allah curse him. How often he is summoned for this!" Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) became upset and said, "Do not curse him, for I swear by Allah, if you only knew just how very much indeed he loves Allah and His Messenger" (Sahîh al-Bukhârî (6282)).

This right there is the attitude of hate the sin but not the sinner, for Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) himself testified as to this man's devotion to God and Messenger of God despite this man's indulge in sin and also had a loving and cordial relationship with the man who was a known and public sinner.

This confuses me, so on one hand:

1. do not judge a sinner cuz you are also a sinner, and he may be better than you and have a better heart (The Prophet's :saw: words when he said:

" Do not curse him, for I swear by Allah, if you only knew just how very much indeed he loves Allah and His Messenger " )

And the Qur'an:

In Quran (verse 11 of Sura Hujarat), God says, “O you who believe, let not (one) people laugh at (another) people perchance they may be better than they, nor let women (laugh) at (other) women, perchance they may be better than they; and do not find fault with your own people nor call one another by nicknames; evil is a bad name after faith, and whoever does not turn, these it is that are the unjust.”

^^ this seems to be for the believers only. but what about what Umar said?
2. you judge the sinner as Umar :ra: said we now judge you by what you do publicly. Judge whether a man is good or depending on his bad deeds. The one who sins publicly is judged as someone not to be trusted.

This seems to be (apparently) be polar opposites, how can both be sahih?

I am geniunely confused, that is why I ask.

On one hand, we can judge by the apparent, yet on the other we can't and must not judge people and say "they are not good people" as in the case with Abdullah.

The fact that we also have to think good of people. but this seems to contradict The hadith of what Umar :ra: said. Cuz as I understand it, with what Umar :ra: said, in the case of Abdullah in the hadith you quoted, we'd have to judge Abdullah for being drunk. And not think good of him? I.e. Judge him by the public sin he did (drinking)?

Is it really Islamic to be like:

I saw a guy drinking publicly, he must be a bad guy. I saw a guy say bad things about Muslims, he must be a bad guy (with complete disregard in the Era we live in, in terms of propaganda, and the fact that the guy may be brainwashed?)

So what is it?! This seems to contradict thinking good of people. Not hating the sinner, but the sin, and not judging.

With the hadith about Umar :ra: it sounds like we can't say that a drunk Muslim can possibly Love Allah more than us, who don't drink! But this contradicts one Sahih hadeeth AND a Quranic Ayat!

So what is it?

Edit: I think I will make a thread. SORRY. I forgot!

 

[ardianto]

:wasalam:

(Since you have made new thread I move my reply to this thread too)

If you saw a man who often drunk you must be would see him as drunkard, don't You?. This is what "someone judged by the deeds that he practices publicly" means. But it's better if you don't judge him too far, like "he is really a bad guy", because probably he actually had good side in his heart that you didn't know, probably tomorrow he would stop drinking and turn into good guy.

We don't know what is in someone heart, we don't know what will happen to someone tomorrow.

 

[ardianto]

One think that we must remove from our hearts is "suudzon", or prejudice which we have negative thought about someone, because probably he is not as bad as we assume. In another side we must also avoid praising someone excessively because probably someone that we praise actually has bad side that we don't know.

 

[Abz2000]

It's easy, rather than try to judge everybody like a piece of software with zero deep learning, we try looking at things broadly where it applies and on a case by case basis where it applies, and Allah has sent down the guidance and the human intellect for people to use justly.

The jews of the past ensnared themselves by using the letter of the law to commit injustice, and the christians later discarded the law, walked after the imaginations of their hearts and went astray.
Allah always prevails over the flimsy and false arguments of the unjust and establishes the truth of His words in letter and spirit combined.
What are the requirements to prove adultery in Islam?
why was Mary (ra) not punished despite the torah giving a similar ruling?
(Allah absolved her of guilt)
Why were the munaafiq scribes and scholars of the law condemned instead despite commiting no obvious transgressions?
(They opposed Allah and His messengers and the contradictions and malice of their hearts was exposed).

Think......
Maybe Allah's been warning us about skynet and the multiple sarah connors.
looks like a nasty future DARPA had planned for you.
free speech? Telephone bills? "I'm confuuuuuuusseeeddd!!!!"






13 The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught.
14 Therefore once more I will astound these people with wonder upon wonder; the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish.”
Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the Lord, who do their work in darkness and think, “Who sees us? Who will know?”
You turn things upside down,as if the potter were thought to be like the clay!
Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, “You did not make me”? Can the pot say to the potter,“You know nothing”?


From Isaiah 29


يَحْذَرُ الْمُنَافِقُونَ أَن تُنَزَّلَ عَلَيْهِمْ سُورَةٌ تُنَبِّئُهُمْ بِمَا فِي قُلُوبِهِم قُلِ اسْتَهْزِئُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ مُخْرِجٌ مَّا تَحْذَرُونَ



009:064*Khan:
The hypocrites fear lest a Surah should be revealed about them, showing them what is in their hearts.
Say: "(Go ahead and) mock! But certainly Allah will bring to light all that you fear."






From Quran Chapter At-TAWBA - REPENTANCE.