Refutation: "From among their brethren..." (A Jewish brethren only?)

[Grace Seeker]

Graceseeker, forgive me, but reading your debate against Imam, you didn't answer alot of his points, especially the contradiction in Acts you made.

Do you mean this point that Imam made?

Not only you contradict yourself,but also
the notion of a "multiple fulfillments " which you crafted is not only unbiblical but absured as well.....
If you could prove it to be Biblical ,how you decide that a specific prophecy that has a repetitious cycle will eventually culminates in a final fulfillment?

if for example the prophecy in Exodus has a repetitious cycle of fulfillments,then you made it elastic prophecy that will stretch its hand to any future fulfillment,to Jesus,Mohamed and anyone else till day of judgment......

I didn't make further comment because while I don't feel that I contradicted myself, I accept that it is his view of my posts. After all, since you read above you no doubt noted that I choose to amend one of my earlier posts after reading deeper into to the topic.

Also, I don't see the need to answer each point, especially as I don't disagree with all of them. While I don't think that concept of multiple fulfillments of a prophecy is unBiblical, I agree that it does create a few problems for the interpreter: how does one know that any singular event is the final fulfillment or the problem with a prophecy being interpreted so "elastically" that it might be applied over and over again to first one and then another. I acknowledge that these are difficulties for the interpreter, but that doesn't mean that simply because it is now harder for the interpreter that it untrue. If Imam sees it as absurb, who am I to tell him that he cannot view it that way. He will view it his way, as you will yours and I will mine.

Just because he sees something as absurd doesn't make it untrue and any more than just because I suggest that there are different ways of reading these prophecies makes that interpretation so. I wrote of what I saw happening in that passage, if you and he chose to see things in it differently, then so be it. I remain unconvinced of the arguments that suggest Deuteronomy 18 refers to Muhammed, which I believe remains the main thesis of this thread.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Haven't seen any holy books or wise words from either Joshua or caleb to withstand the test of time .. they get an honorable mention in wikipedia but not 1.86 billion followers.. :hmm: curious indeed

Oh, I don't know. Maybe you're just not informed about them all. I find these to be pretty wise words, spoken by Joshua, and they have apparently withstood the test of time:

"Now fear the LORD and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your forefathers worshiped beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD." (Joshua 24:14-15)

Spoken by Joshua to the assembled tribes of Israel, at Shechem, when Joshua called them to renew their covenant with God.

 

[جوري]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe you're just not informed about them all. I find these to be pretty wise words, spoken by Joshua, and they have apparently withstood the test of time:

Spoken by Joshua to the assembled tribes of Israel, at Shechem, when Joshua called them to renew their covenant with God.

if powerful and had some sustainability all would be informed of them even random J walkers.. I am not Indian but I know a thing or two about Ghandi.. I am not Mongolian but I know a thing or two about Genghis Khan, I am not Russian, but I know a thing of two about peter the Great I am not chinese but I know a thing or two about Zhu Yuanzhang.. Joshua's assembly of the tribes of Israel hasn't really had much an impact on the world, I am afraid, if he were the intended 'from among their brethern' and his presence backed by support from the almighty himself, then Joshua's powerful words would have had some sustanability and some presence in the 21st century and not just to your person!

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

if powerful and had some sustainability all would be informed of them...

.... Joshua's assembly of the tribes of Israel hasn't really had much an impact on the world, I am afraid, if he were the intended 'from among their brethern' and his presence backed by support from the almighty himself, then Joshua's powerful words would have had some sustanability and some presence in the 21st century and not just to your person!

all the best

You didn't say that you hadn't seen any powerful words from Joshua or Caleb. Nor did you say sustainable. You said

Haven't seen any holy books or wise words from either Joshua or caleb to withstand the test of time .. they get an honorable mention in wikipedia but not 1.86 billion followers.. :hmm: curious indeed

That I was able to find them shows that Joshua's word have indeed withstood the test of time.

However, you are correct that what is wisdom to some is foolishness to others. I still think that it is wise to do as Joshua did and choose to follow the Lord, even if you think otherwise.


Also, even if they were not wise and able to withstand the test of time (which they are and did) that still wouldn't negate the fact they they are the answer to Yusef's question "of all of those adults 'that were travelling with Moses', exactly how many made it into the promised land?" Caleb and Joshua were travelling with Moses. They did make it into the promised land, none of the other adults who were travelling with Moses out of Egypt did. (See Numbers 32:11-12.)

 

[جوري]

You didn't say that you hadn't seen any powerful words from Joshua or Caleb. Nor did you say sustainable. You said

That I was able to find them shows that Joshua's word have indeed withstood the test of time.

However, you are correct that what is wisdom to some is foolishness to others. I still think that it is wise to do as Joshua did and choose to follow the Lord, even if you think otherwise.


Also, even if they were not wise and able to withstand the test of time (which they are and did) that still wouldn't negate the fact they they are the answer to Yusef's question "of all of those adults 'that were travelling with Moses', exactly how many made it into the promised land?" Caleb and Joshua were travelling with Moses. They did make it into the promised land, none of the other adults who were travelling with Moses out of Egypt did. (See Numbers 32:11-12.)

I see no wisdom at all you are right, I hadn't actually read Br. Yusuf's post and I suspect that he has done a fine job and you've done your best to evade it, I simply went by the title and the message and your statement. A paragraph on caleb or Joshua hardly suffices as the 'messengers' from amongst their 'brethren ' I have seen no message..

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

I see no wisdom at all you are right, I hadn't actually read Br. Yusuf's post and I suspect that he has done a fine job and you've done your best to evade it, I simply went by the title and the message and your statement. A paragraph on caleb or Joshua hardly suffices as the 'messengers' from amongst their 'brethren ' I have seen no message..

all the best

You hadn't actually read what the convesation was about and yet you posted? :-[

Yusuf did indeed do a fine job of writing. I always find them thought provoking, full of relevant information, and sometimes even disquieting in his analysis.

But to answer Yusuf's question, one does not need even a whole paragraph, the single sentence I provided you above:

"Because they have not followed me wholeheartedly, not one of the men twenty years old or more who came up out of Egypt will see the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob- not one except Caleb son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite and Joshua son of Nun, for they followed the LORD wholeheartedly."

provides sufficient information to answer Yusuf's question:

of all of those adults 'that were travelling with Moses', exactly how many made it into the promised land?

2 -- Joshua and Caleb



I'll ask my question about you not seeing the wisdom in choosing to serve the Lord in another thread.

 

[جوري]

You hadn't actually read what the convesation was about and yet you posted? :-[

Yusuf did indeed do a fine job of writing. I always find them thought provoking, full of relevant information, and sometimes even disquieting in his analysis.

But to answer Yusuf's question, one does not need even a whole paragraph, the single sentence I provided you above: provides sufficient information to answer Yusuf's question:2 -- Joshua and Caleb



I'll ask my question about you not seeing the wisdom in choosing to serve the Lord in another thread.

Indeed.. I didn't and don't want partake in a second party dialogue, I went by thread title and folks that you've alleged are of importance to the subject matter '"From among their brethren..." (A Jewish brethren only?)'
I see no message of sustainability to all of mankind from Caleb or Joshua, as certain I am of lack of significance save for their assigned time period as I am sure these aren't that 'caleb', and 'Joshua' aren't their actual names but some deranged spin!

all the best