Same Sex Couple 'Blessed' With Surrogate Triplets

[زهراء]

Sister Abraar, you live in SA, right? Maybe you've heard of Maulana Dawood Sampson, of Cape Town.

He has some kind of "rehabilitation program" for homosexuals. He says that they've gone skew, away from the Qiblah, so they need to be turned straight again, and that's what he claims to do. I don't know if his method works or not, or what exactly his method is. Something along the lines of getting them hooked on women again...

Yip I am from SA. That is quite interesting. I wonder what happens when they then become attracted to women. Perhaps they get married? It is actually quite scary because you wouldn't know if they are truly straight again.

 

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Long discussions and debates could be had about the issue, and about the "hate the sin and not the sinner", etc., etc. But what everything comes down to at the end of the day is this:

1) In Islaam, homosexuality is Haraam and the practice has been cursed (three times) by Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم.

2) If a Muslim is a homosexual (provided he doesn't believe it to be permissible), he remains a Muslim. It's not Kufr. It's a major sin. As a result, if he dies without repenting, then - like with all other sins people do not repent for - Allaah Ta`aalaa may put him in Jahannam for however long He wills, until eventually this person will come out and be admitted into Jannah.

3) If a person believes it is permissible to be gay, then he/she has committed Irtidaad (apostasy) and is no longer a Muslim.

والله تعالى أعلم

والسلام​

 

[noraina]

Assalamu alaykum,

Being gay, or homosexuality, it obviously forbidden in Islam, I don't think anybody is denying that. The story of the Prophet Lut (as) is an extremely powerful narrative of the gravity of that nation's sin.

And if someone is gay, or has inclinations to be so, it isn't ideal, it's not desirable, (not going to get into whether it's nature vs nurture here) but as long as they do not act upon it or commit the actual sin, it is a test, a trial for them and in this case controlling one's desires would be the same as for a straight person.

If however, they do commit such a sin based on any such inclinations, then yes it is a major sin, but Allah swt can forgive any sin apart from shirk (correct me if I'm wrong here), so if they truly sincerely repent (and as humans we cannot know the state of their hearts or what is in its depths) they will be forgiven for their sins. Who knows they may only truly repent minutes before death.

So of course we hate the sin, and we would strongly encourage and tell everyone to avoid it in accordance with the commands of Allah swt, but to hate the actual person to the extent you turn away from them or do not even offer them guidance or some form of help, I don't think that would be right.

Allah swt knows best.

 

[Little_Lion]

My daughter is gay. She is not a Muslim, and I am having a very hard time convincing her to convert because of the stance against gays in Islam. Only Allah knows what she will do in the future. But I do not hate her, I love her very much. It is Allah's place to judge her. I can advise her, but I will not judge her. I will always love her and I hope that as life goes on, Allah will find mercy with her so that insha'Allah she and I can enjoy Paradise together.

Personally, I would very happily marry a "gay" Muslim who has repented and wants to live the straight life. I am asexual so if they have no sexual attraction to me that is not only okay, it is better since I will feel no attraction to them anyway. ;D Besides, they are great cooks, keep a clean house, and can help me match my hijab to my clothing better than I probably can!

(The stereotyping is intended as humor, not actual stereotyping. )

 

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Greetings,


I certainly don't hate you. I pity you. You say things like: "It is the duty of the scholar to spread such hatred." If that's what you think education is about, then you really are staggeringly ignorant.

Peace

When the truth is hated by people, then spreading the truth is considered "spreading hatred". Think about it: in the time of Nabi Loot عليه السلام, his nation probably accused him of "spreading hatred" when he used to condemn homosexuality.

If a man marries a goat, or a dog, and you tell him that such an act is Haraam (forbidden), abnormal, etc. he will accuse you of "spreading hatred and intolerance". You are being intolerant of his desire to sleep with a goat, or a dog, or a turtle, whatever it is he fancies.

Another man might marry his own daughter. If you tell him that incest is Haraam and an abomination, he will accuse you of spreading hatred and intolerance. "Is he harming you by marrying and sleeping with his daughter?" etc.

Fir`own (Pharaoh) and his people also - in their way - accused Nabi Moosaa عليه السلام of spreading hatred and intolerance. Fir`own's ministers said to the people of Egypt, "These two (i.e. Moosaa and Haaroon عليهما السلام) want to put an end to your perfect way of life." Fir`own accused Moosaa عليه السلام of spreading Fasaad (evil and corruption) in Egypt.

So that is the context and meaning behind my statement:

"If the Haqq (Truth) is hated by people, then I am happy to spread hate."

 

[M.I.A.]

I think it is a strategy of war.. homosexuality is not a new invention.

it's portrayal and public image are something new.

it's literally a misdirection.

it cuts avenues of repentance for those still on the fence..

pushing others to extremes.

similarly to modern feminism..


it is an image that people are told to buy into one way or the other.

similarly to the war on terror, it in no way represents the larger population..

although at the least opinionates all of us.

to be fair I don't need to condemn any of them, if any law supercedes those of the land..

then they are imposed from higher up.


I'm not into hate speech, I don't bet..

and I'm really not into politics.

but where there is no enforcement then warnings should apply.

 

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Allaah Ta`aalaa says in the Qur'aan:

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ أَنْ خَلَقَ لَكُمْ مِنْ أَنْفُسِكُمْ أَزْوَاجًا لِتَسْكُنُوا إِلَيْهَا وَجَعَلَ بَيْنَكُمْ مَوَدَّةً وَرَحْمَةً إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ

"And from His Signs is that He has created for you wives from yourselves, that you may find contentment in them, and He placed between you (i.e. husband and wife) Mawaddah (love; affection) and Rahmah (mercy). Indeed, therein are Signs for a people who reflect." [Soorah ar-Room, 30:21]​

This perfect "holy love", mercy, harmony and contentment can only be found in marriage of a man to a woman, and vice-versa. It can never be found in the marriage of a man to another man, or a woman to another woman, or a man to a Jinn, or an animal. That true happiness won't be there.

Homosexuals have deprived themselves of experiencing one of the nicest things in life.

 

[Abz2000]

It is better that people who have transgressed the bounds of Allah repent to Allah before the punishment descends upon them wholesale.

 

[Serinity]

Committing all illegal intercourse is haram (forbidden), whether that involves the straight person or the homosexual/lesbian person. And just because a person is committing a sin doesn't mean that they you must lose respect for them. Respect is the default position of a Muslim towards any person, whether that person is a sinner or a saint.

I can not have respect for someone who have no respect for their own dignity. I am not going to tolerate such a sin in my heart. It goes against manhood to do so.

 

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

In South Africa (SA residents will know), there are a number of gangs. The most famous gang is the "Numbers" gang. They have three sub-groups: 26s, 27s and 28s. The "religion" of the 28s is based on raping males. They claim that they're not homosexuals; they're just doing it to "assert their authority". Show that "they're the men". To become a General of the 28s, you must rape and kill the General who came before you.

Now, if a person condemns them, they'll also say you're spreading hatred and intolerance. They'll even deny any allegations of being gay. They say they're "Ndodas" (Men).

Like this:

[Papa vag vir jou = Afrikaans for "Papa's waiting for you."]

[By "lady" they're referring to the male (who doesn't belong to any gang and can't fight) that gets chucked in the cell with them.]

The 28s Gang.

Former General of the 28s, "John Mongrel" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3_RrVcAUWQ

 

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Homosexuality is cursed in all its forms.

 

[noraina]

I can not have respect for someone who have no respect for their own dignity. I am not going to tolerate such a sin in my heart. It goes against manhood to do so.

I see where you are coming from akhi. By all means do not tolerate the sin, but don't be intolerant of the sinner. As I have mentioned, if we Muslims were to turn away completely from some people out of hatred for them, then we may well be closing a door of guidance and help to them.

And I'm just saying this generally, it's good to keep in mind we should not consider ourselves superior to someone because we aren't doing something they do. Again, I am not saying tolerate their sin, and it is our duty to remind and caution, but it may well be that they could die as a better believer or Muslim than we would ever be. This wouldn't always happen, someone may never repent, but the truth is we just don't know what may come in their heart if Allah swt were to guide them.

 

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Definitely, we shouldn't consider ourselves superior to anyone. Allaah Ta`aalaa says in the Qur'aan:

فلا تزكوا أنفسكم هو أعلم بمن اتقى​

"So ascribe not purity to yourselves. He knows best him who fears Allaah and keep his duty to Him [i.e. those who are al-Muttaqoon (pious)]." [Soorah an-Najm, 53:32]

A person can repent from any sin and later on become a Wali of Allaah Ta`aalaa. On the other hand, a pious person can become evil.

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)



Hi, sis. Hope you're doing well! There was a member called MorbidEntree who'd I think become a Muslim on IB. And here is a merged thread starting from pg. 7 of MuslimInshallah's post especially all of what MuslimInshallah says wherein you could see what had been said to him to make him consider reverting. I'm linking you to that thread to see for yourself what you can maybe say to your daughter to have her think about reverting to Islam. Basically, and this is really important, you'll need to focus on the (1) Oneness of Allah, and (2) the Mercy and Forgiveness of Allah.

InshaAllah (God-willing) when the time is right, she'll consider for herself the path to God and see Islam as being the right one for herself; the door and invitation to Islam will ALWAYS be open to her. And I'm glad that you do not reject her but love her; InshaAllah (God-willing) loving her and being kind with her and being the best mother to her will enable her to see the character of Islam. In fact, I'd say that while dawah is going to be part and parcel of how you approach her with Islam, your character and your willingness to be there for her as a merciful human being should speak to her more about what Islam is than about what you say. And of course, Islamically, if she's passed puberty, you're to act as her adviser and mentor because treating her like an adult able to make her choices is what is required of you as part of good parenting because it'll enable a healthy and positive relationship to flourish.

For all of us, sinner, saint, atheist, homosexual, whatever, Allah's Mercy is available for us to avail for ourselves, and we'll find that Mercy no matter when or how we turn to Allah. This is a long life. Let's hope for the best for all of us.

My daughter is gay. She is not a Muslim, and I am having a very hard time convincing her to convert because of the stance against gays in Islam. Only Allah knows what she will do in the future. But I do not hate her, I love her very much. It is Allah's place to judge her. I can advise her, but I will not judge her. I will always love her and I hope that as life goes on, Allah will find mercy with her so that insha'Allah she and I can enjoy Paradise together.

Personally, I would very happily marry a "gay" Muslim who has repented and wants to live the straight life. I am asexual so if they have no sexual attraction to me that is not only okay, it is better since I will feel no attraction to them anyway. ;D Besides, they are great cooks, keep a clean house, and can help me match my hijab to my clothing better than I probably can!

(The stereotyping is intended as humor, not actual stereotyping. )

:wa:

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)


@noraina - wonderful posts!

:wa:

 

[noraina]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)


@noraina - wonderful posts!

:wa:

Wa alaykum assalam

Thank you habibti, just trying to remind myself first and foremost and if I can help anyone else then alhamdulillah, your posts are much more wonderful though. x

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

@Huzaifah ibn Adam

Respectfully, I think you need to understand that there are different types of homosexual/lesbians. They are not all the same.

There is one group of homosexuals/lesbians who are able to marry with the opposite sex but there is one group from among them that will literally be sick at the thought of even being with the opposite gender; the latter group would rather be alone because the thought itself of being with the opposite sex is 100% so abhorrent to them that they might experience psychosomatic symptoms if they are forced to marry. This might not be understandable to you, but this is something that they experience internally within themselves. So, without knowing whether this person falls into one category or the other, marriage cannot be given as a blanket recommendation because being able to fulfill the rights of your spouse is a contractual condition of marriage. I had years ago read about a South Asian Muslim woman's story who had unknowingly married a homosexual person and this man failed to consummate his marriage because he could not even contemplate being with her intimately and due to the cultural stigma of divorce the woman's parents were constantly telling her to be patient. This Muslim woman finally divorced her husband after years of living a sexless marriage and now is happily married to another man.

Also, as you have realized, one group of homosexual/lesbian might have these feelings and believe illegal intercourse to be sin and so they do not act upon those feelings. One group of homosexual/lesbian might have these feelings and believe illegal intercourse is a sin but still commit them because their desires are too strong for them to handle. One group of homosexual/lesbian group are not sure due to lack of knowledge about whether this type of intercourse is sin and so they end up again giving into their desires. One group of homosexual/lesbian group does not consider this type of intercourse a sin and so they end up giving into their desires. You must remember that all three groups except for the last one falls under the umbrella of Allah's Mercy and Forgiveness. And even the fourth group, if persons falling within that category at one point acknowledge later that this was a sin and repent, do fall under the umbrella of Allah's Mercy and Forgiveness.

 

[Serinity]

I see where you are coming from akhi. By all means do not tolerate the sin, but don't be intolerant of the sinner. As I have mentioned, if we Muslims were to turn away completely from some people out of hatred for them, then we may well be closing a door of guidance and help to them.

And I'm just saying this generally, it's good to keep in mind we should not consider ourselves superior to someone because we aren't doing something they do. Again, I am not saying tolerate their sin, and it is our duty to remind and caution, but it may well be that they could die as a better believer or Muslim than we would ever be. This wouldn't always happen, someone may never repent, but the truth is we just don't know what may come in their heart if Allah swt were to guide them.

I know in the Quran it says to not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just and upright, for that is nearer to righteousness and taqwa.

I just can't rid my disgust and aversion for sodomy.

Let me give you an example:

If you met a murderer who murdered your family, wouldn't you feel hatred towards that person? or say a rapist, wouldn't you be disgusted at that person? Surely having hatred and animosity for what Allah hates, i.e. sodomy, is natural and should be there.

But well, One should have aversion and hatred for what is hateful to Allah. Hate and love for the sake of Allah :swt: . However this doesn't mean we shouldn't act unjustly. But we should disassociate ourselves from the disbelievers and be clear that we condemn whatever we condemn.

Can any scholar clarify "hate the sin not the sinner"? Cuz I find it natural to judge people by their deeds.. To a certain extent. I.e. having aversion and disgust for what they are doing.

I won't respect their sodomy, I will never do that. I will disapprove of it.

 

[Little_Lion]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)



Hi, sis. Hope you're doing well! There was a member called MorbidEntree who'd I think become a Muslim on IB. And here is a merged thread starting from pg. 7 of MuslimInshallah's post especially all of what MuslimInshallah says wherein you could see what had been said to him to make him consider reverting. I'm linking you to that thread to see for yourself what you can maybe say to your daughter to have her think about reverting to Islam. Basically, and this is really important, you'll need to focus on the (1) Oneness of Allah, and (2) the Mercy and Forgiveness of Allah.

InshaAllah (God-willing) when the time is right, she'll consider for herself the path to God and see Islam as being the right one for herself; the door and invitation to Islam will ALWAYS be open to her. And I'm glad that you do not reject her but love her; InshaAllah (God-willing) loving her and being kind with her and being the best mother to her will enable her to see the character of Islam. In fact, I'd say that while dawah is going to be part and parcel of how you approach her with Islam, your character and your willingness to be there for her as a merciful human being should speak to her more about what Islam is than about what you say. And of course, Islamically, if she's passed puberty, you're to act as her adviser and mentor because treating her like an adult able to make her choices is what is required of you as part of good parenting because it'll enable a healthy and positive relationship to flourish.

For all of us, sinner, saint, atheist, homosexual, whatever, Allah's Mercy is available for us to avail for ourselves, and we'll find that Mercy no matter when or how we turn to Allah. This is a long life. Let's hope for the best for all of us.



:wa:

Jazak'Allah khair for your post, sister. It took me almost 40 years to come to Islam, and she is only 16, so I still have much hope for her.