Sin

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john316

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Well first off le me start with some questions and this is not an accussation or any attempt to convert. So my questions are both to Muslims and non-Muslims. Are all your Islamic prophets apart from Adam sinless?
 
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No one is perfect and yes I've sinned. Are you talking about original sin?
 
Hey. :)


All of the children of Adam sin, yet no soul bears the burden of another. But the best of sinners are those who repent to God and mend their ways for the better. :)
 
As far as I know no prophet has ever sinned, except Adam.

I've sinned alot though, but never big ones.
 
What do you think about prophets other than Adam who sinned? Now when I say sin I do not mean imperfection. All humans are imperfect. But there is a difference between sinning and imperfection. So I dont expect all humans to be perfect. I will not talk about my belief in the sin nature yet. But I believe even the Quran ought to believe that every human is inclined to sin.
 
john316 said:
But I believe even the Quran ought to believe that every human is inclined to sin.
Click to expand...

Allaah loves when his slaves repent for their sins sincerely. Obviously humans are subject to shaytaan's (the devils traps), but we seek refuge in Allaah from the shaytaan. We are not perfect, Allaah didn't make us perfect, but as Muslims are supposed to strive to be the best we can be and if we sin, we make supplication to Allaah to forgive us for having done so.

PS. It's not a good idea to share your sins on here, so please keep that to yourself. As Muslims we must show humility to our creator, so don't reveal your sins on here.
 
I am not asking for you to reveal your sins, whatever sin it may be. I simply asked if you've ever sinned and if all of your Islamic prophets are sinless?
 
No one is born a sinner and the newly born is innocent until they can distinguish between right and wrong. They are accountable for all there actions after Puberty and if they are mentally able to do so therefore the insane are not held accountable.

As for the Prophets(AS) they were all Innocent but capable of making mistakes, they were all trialled and none is perfect.

All the Prophets(AS) was perfect in their delivery of the message, but they were Human and capable of making mistakes and their trials are the hardest:
Abu Saeed said: “Messenger of Allah, you have a very high fever”. He said: “We are like this: our trials are very hard and our reward is multiplied.” Abu Saeed asked: “Messenger of Allah, which people have the greatest affliction?” He replied: “The Prophets (Pbuh), and then the most pious and righteous. Any one of them may be tested with poverty until he could find nothing more than a robe to cover himself with and he would wear that. Another could be tested with fleas until they almost killed him. They were more pleased with their affliction than any of you may be pleased with gifts.” (Related by Al-Bukhari in Al-Adab Al Mufrad).

However whenever A prophet did make mistake, they were quick to repent:

"Allah accepts the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards. To them will Allah turn in mercy. Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom"
Sura 4:17

Therefore the Prophet are not perfect human beings, however they were the best amongst the people they were with and perfect for delivering the message and chosen by Allah(SWT):

Adam's progeny declared: "Our Lord, we bear witness that You are our Lord; we have no otherLord but Allah. Allah raised their father Adam, and he looked at them and saw those of them who
were rich and those who were poor, and those who had good forms and those who did not. Adam said: "O Allah! I wish You to make Your servants equal." Allah replied "I love being thanked."Adam saw among the prophets like lamps among his progeny.
 
john316 said:
Well first off le me start with some questions and this is not an accussation or any attempt to convert. So my questions are both to Muslims and non-Muslims. Are all your Islamic prophets apart from Adam sinless?
Click to expand...

I think this is an un-answered question in islam.Many muslims,including scholars say that the Prophets were sinless but when we look at Quran and some hadiths we see that no one is sinless ,even Muhammed aleyhissalam.

So you need to research a little before coming to a conclusion.
 
Z.AL-Rashid said:
No one is born a sinner and the newly born is innocent until they can distinguish between right and wrong. They are accountable for all there actions after Puberty and if they are mentally able to do so therefore the insane are not held accountable.

As for the Prophets(AS) they were all Innocent but capable of making mistakes, they were all trialled and none is perfect.

All the Prophets(AS) was perfect in their delivery of the message, but they were Human and capable of making mistakes and their trials are the hardest:
Abu Saeed said: “Messenger of Allah, you have a very high fever”. He said: “We are like this: our trials are very hard and our reward is multiplied.” Abu Saeed asked: “Messenger of Allah, which people have the greatest affliction?” He replied: “The Prophets (Pbuh), and then the most pious and righteous. Any one of them may be tested with poverty until he could find nothing more than a robe to cover himself with and he would wear that. Another could be tested with fleas until they almost killed him. They were more pleased with their affliction than any of you may be pleased with gifts.” (Related by Al-Bukhari in Al-Adab Al Mufrad).

However whenever A prophet did make mistake, they were quick to repent:

"Allah accepts the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards. To them will Allah turn in mercy. Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom"
Sura 4:17

Therefore the Prophet are not perfect human beings, however they were the best amongst the people they were with and perfect for delivering the message and chosen by Allah(SWT):

Adam's progeny declared: "Our Lord, we bear witness that You are our Lord; we have no otherLord but Allah. Allah raised their father Adam, and he looked at them and saw those of them who
were rich and those who were poor, and those who had good forms and those who did not. Adam said: "O Allah! I wish You to make Your servants equal." Allah replied "I love being thanked."Adam saw among the prophets like lamps among his progeny.
Click to expand...

Well in some Biblical passages it may explicitly state that people are born sinners. You have
Romans 3:23
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Psalm 51:5-6
5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

6 Surely you desire truth in the inner parts [a] ;
you teach me wisdom in the inmost place

Does that mean infants who die go to hell?

Well let us first start off that according to the Bible at the beginning of creation God made everything perfect. Nothing died before Adam sinned. The world before the Fall was something totally different from what we see today. But after Adam sinned God cursed mankind and gave way to sin suffering and death. Because of sins curse we are born with that nature inclined to sin. So our flesh is nothing good. The heart is deceitfully wicked above all things. Every man is tempted by his own lusts. When we become born again we recieve God's Holy Spirit to live a godly life. Now Paul instructs us in his letters you either live by the sinful nature if the flesh or you live by the fruits of the Holy Spirit. and those who live and guided by the Spirit we inherit the kingdom of God. So God gives us the power to live a nature contrary to the wicked nature of the flesh. But babies or Children are a different case.
James 4:17
17Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.

Do children know what they do is wrong or not. I dont think so. Jesus assured that little children make it to the kingdom of God.

Matthew 18:1-4
1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
 
I am not a mullah, but few things I would like to point out.


All prophets were sinless, YES.

How literally we should understand this? They made mistakes, yes.

But in front of Allah's eyes they were "sinless". Why? Because they proved faithful, always striving for Allah's cause. They were imperfect, yet, in God's eyes they proved "sinless".


In Isaiah it says: "Even if your sins are red, they will be made white like snow - and you shall be sinless"

I am not English-speaker so I dont know how it exactly goes, but I think you can find it in your Bible.


In the bible, did Christian god approve David after making all those sins ? I think he and many are later called as "sinless" or "faithful" in the new testament.

I'm sorry, but I think we are making an elephant of a mosquito fly :)
And missing the original point.

One thing is for sure: if Qur'an says so, then it's correct


~Jamal
 
Im a muslim but how can you tell every prophet was sinless? They are humans are they not? Didn't Allah give humans the power of free will? To choose their rights and wrongs for themselves. I believe they did sin because which human hasn't? Its possible that there was no person to follow the prophets around like stalkers documenting every little thing they did wrong.
 
there was a hadith of rasulallah when he was asking allah to forgive his sins...doesnt that make him have sins? allahu alim if any of the prophets are sinless or not...
 
:salamext:

The Prophet SAW made that dua, so his followers/ummah would make it, and ask forgiveness of their sins. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
 
john316 said:
Does that mean infants who die go to hell?

Well let us first start off that according to the Bible at the beginning of creation God made everything perfect. Nothing died before Adam sinned. The world before the Fall was something totally different from what we see today. But after Adam sinned God cursed mankind and gave way to sin suffering and death. Because of sins curse we are born with that nature inclined to sin. So our flesh is nothing good. The heart is deceitfully wicked above all things. Every man is tempted by his own lusts. When we become born again we recieve God's Holy Spirit to live a godly life. Now Paul instructs us in his letters you either live by the sinful nature if the flesh or you live by the fruits of the Holy Spirit. and those who live and guided by the Spirit we inherit the kingdom of God. So God gives us the power to live a nature contrary to the wicked nature of the flesh. But babies or Children are a different case.
James 4:17
17Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.
Click to expand...

Aloha John316 :D,

The part about nothing died before Adam(AS) is an assumption as far as I know. correct me if I am wrong.

Also if Mankind became sinners due to Adams sin then what caused Adam to sin in his pure state? It was satan of course, he was tempted as we are to this day by satan. And yes, we also have are bestial inclinations however we have been given the will to decide to follow it or not. I don't blame Adam(AS) for my inclinations nor do I think God is so unjust as to hold me accountable for the actions of another.

However in christianity this is what you are taught, a sinless man must suffer and is held accountable for the sins of others, We are accountable for Adams sin just as Jesus was accountable for everyones sin...This is not the same God as Islam but rather an unjust one... a different one to the one preached by Jesus(AS) in the Qur'an.

Do children know what they do is wrong or not. I dont think so. Jesus assured that little children make it to the kingdom of God.

Matthew 18:1-4
1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Click to expand...

Yes I heard of this, and also if you read on further you see these passages:

"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in My name welcomes Me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

You see the part in bold implies that the child is a Christian, Jesus(AS) according to the Bible did not pick a random child but a christian child and we all know all christians believe they are forgiven so long as they believe anyway. Also another thing is Jesus in the above implies the child could sin (actions for which they will be punished) but a child who does not know right from wrong, why should he/she be accountable?
Also if you were to say children aren't born sinners wouldn't you be contradicting what you said above:

[PIE]But after Adam sinned God cursed mankind and gave way to sin suffering and death. Because of sins curse we are born with that nature inclined to sin. So our flesh is nothing good. The heart is deceitfully wicked above all things. Every man is tempted by his own lusts. [/PIE]

In Islam any child, be they Christian, Jew etc is sinless until they reach puberty.


I pray you find peace
 

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