Somalia - Food Aid

[Thinker]

Somali members like myself?

Like I said, don't assume so much. You sound so patronising. You assume so much about Muslims... on this forum and around the world. That's what 'angers', and 'discomfort' Muslims like myself, and that is what portrays your post as negative digs. Why do you think these kind of posts are constantly directed at you, and not some of the other non-Muslims on this forum? Because they never ask questions? Seriously, think about it.

You are Somali, excellent; I would much appreciate your views on why Somalia is the mess it is. I know part of Somalia was once a British Protectorate and I read that at that time, although there were difficulties with the Italians and WWII, Somalis made progress towards greater prosperity. It seems to have gone down hill after the British left in 1960 and has got progressively worse since and now in complete free fall.

Is Somalia in the mess it’s in because it was a Protectorate (pseudo colony) or would Somali’s have been better served staying under colonial rule?

See . . . . The world's most utterly failed state
http://www.economist.com/research/a...story.cfm?subjectid=5189851&story_id=12342212

Can I know if you are currently living in Somalia?

 

[Maryan0]

Not sure of the relevance of that statement unless you are suggesting that aid and or assistance is denied the above people because they are unimportant to the ‘west’? With regards the Africa, I have tried and failed to find out how much has been given in aid, this article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123758895999200083.html ) suggest 50 billion every year. And that’s year after year after year and life for the most is no better now than it was 50 years ago
lol that part of my post was in reference to muslims becuase i was refering to muslim people who are struggling that are largely ignored by other muslims. i find it interesting that you would assume i was refering to the west and feel the need to defend the "west" to me.
i do not mean to be rude but i honestly could care less about how much aid is given by the west it is irrelevent because like i said before this shouldn't be a west vs muslim aid topic. that's ver condesending

I didn’t post those stats for that reason, I asked about where Muslim aid money went and someone posted a suggestion that probably went to the WFP. I looked ay their site and was surprised by what I found and thought it might interest others.
i just pointed out how your posts came across, if those were not your intentions then they were not your intentions. you know yourself,I cannot read your mind.


That has been said here before but is a hollow accusation with little or no evidence to support it. Name me one African country where the general population has become more prosperous after gaining independence. A few years back I spent some time in Zimbabwe and I asked lots of black Zimbabweans about their life ruled as a colony and their life since independence and EVERY one cursed the day they became independent.

lol that is exactly the point the majority of african nations have been unable to throw off the effects of colonization. the europeans divided up africa depending on their own needs and when they left they left false borders that has caused many a african nation to attack one another, they divided up ethnic groups leading to the marginalization of certain ethnic groups in their irrespective nations leading this has lead to civil wars military coups etc.
they introduced certain aspects of racism ex. rwanda where the hutu's were lead to believe they were inferior to the tutsi who have what they used to refer to as "caucoid" features leading to the genocide and displacement of the tutsi in 1994. in this particular regard we cannot completely blame our former colonizers for the stupidity exhibited by the people but they have a large part to blame in sowing the seeds of hatred between these 2 groups.

in reference to my own homeland, the europeans divided somali land into british somaliland, italian somaliland, french somaliland etc. they also gave a huge chunk of somali territory ( the ogaden) to the ethiopians and to this day only 2 regions of somalia are united. one part of british somaliland was given to kenya, the other part is still in ethiopia and the other one is it's own independent nation known as djibouti. this carving up of somalia lead to the somali vs ethio war of 1977 with the cubans russians and americans getting involved because at the time it was the cold war. it also has lead to unrest within ethiopia with the people of the ogaden to this day fighting for independence. it has also lead to 2000 somalis being burned alive by kenyan president who felt threatned by the somalis.
there is enmity between sudan and egypt because some sudanese believe egypt was given sudanese land.
even to this day africa is colonized in the sense that even though the colonizers are gone they still have a part to play in our internal affairs not only that but the majority of african leaders are puppets and because they are obedient to the west the west ignores their transgressions.
i was in kenya last year during the post election violence and those elections were defintly rigged because it was obvious to anybody with eyes that the contender for presidency raila odinga won, now i do not know how the world reacted but the amount of anger seen in regards to kibaki stealing the election, causing civil unrest, death and displacement was non- existant but when mugabe did the same thing the press and the world went crazy. now you can call mugabe many things because he has turned into a senile old man who refuses to let go of power ( like most african leaders) but he most definetly was not a puppet and did not let the west tell him what to do and that's why you see such a backlash against him not that he doesn't deserve it but where was the backlash against the majority of african leaders who do the same thing? why are they exempt?
coloniztion like most things had some advantages but even these advantages where built on the sweat and blood of african people. to say that colonization plays no part in the state of africa today is downright ignorant and "hollow" in the extreme. i do not know what kind of africans you met but no sane african would wish for the day's of colonization, i do not think any human being with blood would wish for servitude to another group of people.
in the words of the first president of guinea " we would prefer liberty in poverty than opulance in slavery".

 

[Maryan0]

somalia is in the "mess" it is due to tribalism.period.
we would not have been better served if we were colonized because our history neither began with colonialism neither is our history the civil war of the past 20 yrs, neither do any of these things define us. i do not see why our choices have to be colonization or our state today. every country has gone through a dark period and inshallah we will overcome ours as will the rest of the muslim world. your starting to sound like a supremacist

 

[Joe98]

i do not mean to be rude but i honestly could care less

"could care less" is am American phrase. They use english incorrectly on a regular basis. Tell us again where you are from?

i was in kenya last year during the post election violence and those elections were defintly rigged because ...........but where was the backlash…………

We know it was rigged. It was a big news story at the time. But a story “election in Africa rigged” is so common it disappears fast.

-

 

[جوري]

"could care less" is am American phrase. They use english incorrectly on a regular basis. Tell us again where you are from?

firstly, I'd like to say that I have no desire to partake in this thread.. but why point out syntax and grammar problems of other posters, if you yourself are unable to compose a decipherable statement.. what does 'is am American phrase' denote in this context?



and in closure..

you should consider that one of the most successful immigrants in the united states (according to project MAPS) are Muslims from the middle east.. whatever aid the world gets if it gets it without the vulgar display of charitable deeds, is is from their tax money as well!

consider you, the U.S national debt:

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+3]U.S. N[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+2]ATIONAL[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+3]D[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+2]EBT[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+3]C[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+2]LOCK[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]The Outstanding Public Debt as of 18 Jun 2009 at 11:38:36 PM GMT is:
[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]The estimated population of the United States is 306,392,670
so each citizen's share of this debt is $37,229.50. The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$3.81 billion per day since September 28, 2007!
Concerned? Then tell Congress and the White House!


and that it is hitting gulf countries to aid in its current economic crisis..


so how about we don't make others painfully aware of our good deeds, lest it come back to bite us else where!

[/FONT]


all the best

 

[Maryan0]

"could care less" is am American phrase. They use english incorrectly on a regular basis. Tell us again where you are from?

could care less is english. what exactly does where i'm from have to do with the issue at hand?



We know it was rigged. It was a big news story at the time. But a story “election in Africa rigged” is so common it disappears fast.
funny the mugabe one has still not disappeared, indeed it's funny that kibaki was made nowhere near as much the bad guy as mugabe was. mugabe was blatently accused of rigging the election kibaki was not.

 

[Joe98]

Some correct english phrases:

I don't care.

I could not care less.

Both mean the same thing


Americans say:

I could care less.

It means the same as the above but it is poor grammar. You are mixing a positive "I could care" with a negative '"less"

Whenever I see it I have to read it twice to understand!

It means the Somali person above was taught english by Americans.

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[جوري]

again, that is relevant how?

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Just watched a news report about food aid sent to Somalia to feed refugees is being sold in the markets after being bought from corrupt officials. The report showed mountains of sacks of maize etc all stamped WFP and USfoodaid. Why isn’t the Muslim world (who are also their neighbours) feeding the Somalis?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6499155.ece

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this concept has been covered hundreds of times. The typical " well if Muslims think they're so guided, why arent they doing X" question.

Do you think by people declaring themselves Muslim, that they automatically act like it?

It may be interesting for you to note the state of the Muslims near the End Times.

Narrated Thawban: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The people will soon summon one another to attack you as people when eating invite others to share their dish. Someone asked: Will that be because of our small numbers at that time? He replied: No, you will be numerous at that time: but you will be scum and rubbish like that carried down by a torrent, and Allah will take fear of you from the breasts of your enemy and last enervation into your hearts. Someone asked: What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death.

 

[TrueStranger]

And, I suspect that there’s a few Somali members of this forum who would like to know why the Muslim world has abandoned them.

Nice thread. The only think i am wondering is why are the Somalis killing each other for almost 19 years? And why are the majority of the Somalis quiet about the daily violence and killing of their people.

Somalis if anything are self-destructive. We are very tolerate and relaxed about our own suffering. Somalis don't care about Somalis, why would anyone else care, Muslims and Non-Muslims :blind:

 

[Thinker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this concept has been covered hundreds of times. The typical " well if Muslims think they're so guided, why arent they doing X" question.

What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death

My original question asked why isn’t Somalia’s muslim neghbours doing more to hely mulsim Somalia. I don’t know how you strecched that to “well if Muslims think they're so guided, why aren’t they doing X" question”.

By the bye, you posted the text . . . .”What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (pbuh): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death”. Can I know where this comes from and do I take it that you (and all Muslims) advocate that they should love death and dislike the world?

 

[جوري]

where did you come up with 'love death'?
there is a hadith to the contrary actually, you shouldn't wish for death..
having no love for this world doesn't equate with loving death.

BTW charities don't always have to be given through a formal organization.
so technically you don't know whether or not the Muslim neighbors are giving or not to Somalia!

all the best

 

[Thinker]

where did you come up with 'love death'?
there is a hadith to the contrary actually, you shouldn't wish for death..
having no love for this world doesn't equate with loving death.

BTW charities don't always have to be given through a formal organization.
so technically you don't know whether or not the Muslim neighbors are giving or not to Somalia!

all the best

.”What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (pbuh): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death”.

Without explanation I interpreted the text to mean that Muslims would be weakened (enervated) if they loved the world (worldly things) and disliked death (disliked what death brought i.e. it brought nothing rather than paradise. Like I said, without explanation I took it to mean that the narrator was advocating that Muslims should spend their efforts preparing for death and an afterlife of paradise rather than the pursuit of tangible worldly rewards/benefits. I just reversed the quote to encourage an explanation which I presumed would be like that above but of course I don’t know.

 

[جوري]

Reversing the Quote certainly doesn't make it true.. preparation for the afterlife denotes that you must work very hard in this one not that you sit in the mosque all day plotting how to die..

Prophet Muhammad (saws) said," Whoever goes down a path/road searching for Knowledge, Allah will make it easy for him the road to Paradise." [Saheeh Muslim, Vol.3 Hadith No. 99]

It is important that you either consult someone more knowledgeable or ask a scholar to interpret ahadith for you.. certainly lay men aren't fit to do it..

Islam is a package deal, you can't quote at whim to make a point for your cause and neglect the rest or reverse it or whatever strikes your mood for the day..

all the best

 

[AntiKarateKid]

My original question asked why isn’t Somalia’s muslim neghbours doing more to hely mulsim Somalia. I don’t know how you strecched that to “well if Muslims think they're so guided, why aren’t they doing X" question”.

By the bye, you posted the text . . . .”What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (pbuh): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death”. Can I know where this comes from and do I take it that you (and all Muslims) advocate that they should love death and dislike the world?

Was that a serious question? Read it again.

It means we should not be afraid of death when doing what is right. And that we shouldn't let wordly allures derail our morality.

I stretched that because why did you have to say "Somalia's MUSLIM neighbors?" Surely just saying neighbors was enough.

 

[Thinker]

Was that a serious question? Read it again.

It means we should not be afraid of death when doing what is right. And that we shouldn't let wordly allures derail our morality.

I stretched that because why did you have to say "Somalia's MUSLIM neighbors?" Surely just saying neighbors was enough.

Because non Muslim neighbours don't purport to follow concepts such as ummah.

 

[جوري]

Because non Muslim neighbours don't purport to follow concepts such as ummah.

You are absolutely right.. they don't!

قَوْلٌ مَّعْرُوفٌ وَمَغْفِرَةٌ خَيْرٌ مِّن صَدَقَةٍ يَتْبَعُهَا أَذًى وَاللّهُ غَنِيٌّ حَلِيمٌ {263}​

[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:263] A kind word with forgiveness is better than almsgiving followed by injury. Allah is Absolute, Clement.[/SIZE]


all the best

 

[AHMED_GUREY]

The level of ignorance in this topic is disgusting.

To mr Thinker food shortages and famines happen in many parts of the world today and have been a factor of life since ancient times especially in times of war, including Europe as recent as WWII. A peacetime Somalia is very capable of being self sufficient as this was the case before the civil war. It's precisely this food aid that was given to the dictatorship by IMF that destroyed Somalia's agricultural sector, that actually managed to produce surplus which in turn was exported.

When the UN/US entered Somalia in 1993, the famine of 1992 had already ended. The whole operation had little do with helping Somalis but more with the US new role of world police as the Soviet Union had just recently collapsed and this was seen as a great opportunity. The fact that Clinton left so eagerly after the Black Hawk incident only shows you how little the US government wanted to invest in the situation, because seriously you can't enter a country engulfed in a civil war, promise the civilian leaders and societies risking their own lives you will support them against the warlords and then abandoned them all just because of a few misguided characters who are dragging people through the streets, come on people this is war, disturbing stuff like that happen all the time, matter fact there are pictures on the web of American soldiers dragging vietnamese insurgents behind their tanks, how is this any different?

This ''Save the poor people of Somalia'' charade the west likes to promote is simply Kipling's famous whiteman's burden complex. Remittances from the Somali diaspora is 10 times the amount of foreign aid Somalia receives each year. Somalia needs to be left alone and it will do fine.

Your point about the ''muslim world'' abandoning Somalia is a fallacy as there is no real 'muslim world' out there worthy of the name 'Ummah'. Only a collective of countries with muslim majorities and corrupt leaders. There are however more Somalis in this sphere of countries than there are in West and places like Dubai have become Somali business hubs.