The first industrial action by doctors for almost 40 years is under way.

[Banu_Hashim]

For those in the UK, you may be aware that doctors are now officially on strike.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18523896

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/21/doctors-strike-pensions-hospitals-gp-surgeries

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18294656

As I understand it, the issue is that the government is cutting their pension scheme from 70,000 to 50,000 a year when they retire (like 50,000 tax free is too little!!).

Apparently emergency care will still be seen to and individual doctors are deciding how strictly they will stick to this strike or whether they will at all. Is anyone affected by this?

What are your thoughts? Is it right for doctors to go on strike?

 

[~ Sabr ~]

Is it right for doctors to go on strike?

:salamext:

No. What if a patient has an emergency and they go to the hospital, and they die, just because a doctor wasn't there to save them?

It's a joke.

These pensions, etc. they are not ESSENTIAL in Islaam.

We should prepare for our Aakhirah rather than preparing for our Dunya.

I was in NHS pension but I have opted out of it. As I am in my mid 20's and the pension will be given to me after my 60's, so why waste 35 years of pension when that could help poor people around the world?

 

[Banu_Hashim]

What if a patient has an emergency and they go to the hospital, and they die, just because a doctor wasn't there to save them?

No, emergency cases will be seen to by doctors, especially the A&E doctors who I suspect will be working. It's basically routine appointments and things that are not life threatening that won't be seen. That said I think it's completely against the ethics and altruistic nature of the medical profession. It's just doctors being greedy!

It's basically the BMA who are enforcing this, so doctors who don't belong to the BMA won't be doing it. But the media coverage for this is crazy.

I agree with everything else you said.

 

[yasirslm]

What are your thoughts? Is it right for doctors to go on strike?

Well in my country it has become a routine as YOUNG DOCTORS do strike two/three times in a month in order to blackmail government for fulfilling their illegal demands.

 

[piXie]

"An analysis of mortality rates from around the world shows rapid and significant declines when doctors go on strike. A month long strike in Israel in 1973 halved the number of deaths, while a seven week strike in Los Angeles in 1976 resulted in an 18 per cent reduction in deaths. ‘It may be a coincidence but it is a fact,’ said a spokesman for the National Morticians Association. What’s more, in the strikes analysed, mortality rates tend to return to normal when the strikes are over. One explanation for this could be the number of deaths from medical operations or from drug reactions. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, first popularised as an alternative to dangerous steroid drugs, is now a $9.5 billion industry - $5 billion for the drug and $4.5 billion for treating the side-effects. Thousands of people die from the side effects of these drugs alone. Whatever the cause of this phenomenon, perhaps it’s time to question the old ideas upon which twentieth-century medicine has been based...." [100% Health by Patrick Holford]

 

[Snowflake]

^That is quite shocking. The strikes would have to be pretty long for someone to notice a decline in mortality rates though.

 

[جوري]

people are often comforted by statistics. Is that what is going on here?

perhaps it fulfills a need in the psyche..
who knows..

to answer the OP .. of course they've a right to protest. They're human beings too.. They waste their youth, finances, work for the service of others, why shouldn't they be entitled to their earning? I am sure you've a clue how much debt and time invested being a pharmacist yourself or in such a field to have others simply mock your effort, undermine it or not grant you, your due rights!

 

[Banu_Hashim]

I'm not mocking their efforts, I'm just trying to put the issue into perspective. They already get a huge pension scheme, more than any other public servant even with the proposed changes. Of course they have a right, but they never participated in a strike on issues when it affected patients. As I understand it, only 25% of doctors actually partook in the strike so a lot of doctors themselves don't agree.

The whole thing was a bit blown out of proportions anyways. I think it was only one day.

 

[جوري]

I'm not mocking their efforts, I'm just trying to put the issue into perspective. They already get a huge pension scheme, more than any other public servant even with the proposed changes. Of course they have a right, but they never participated in a strike on issues when it affected patients. As I understand it, only 25% of doctors actually partook in the strike so a lot of doctors themselves don't agree.

The whole thing was a bit blown out of proportions anyways. I think it was only one day.

I can't pretend to know how your system works, but just seeing members in my family who are doctors and pharmacists put in as many hours as they do, get taxed higher than everyone else, have federal/state plus if you're working in a different district even more tax, mal practice insurance putting your kids through school where everyone naturally presumes you're loaded so whatever financial aids others get is already denied you, paying rent, putting food on the table, paying for gas and garage and your zakat, you're practically left with nothing. And you're already starting your life later than everyone else.. & that is the doctors here who are actually getting a chance to practice. Since healthcare is not owned by the govt. Hospitals hold the right to train you or not, so in fact many end up doctors in title only and are working in pizza shops.. I just met an Egyptian doctor the other day who worked in a halal market. Imagine that..
Maybe you've it better there, but only Zionist doctors have it well here..

 

[Banu_Hashim]

I can't pretend to know how your system works, but just seeing members in my family who are doctors and pharmacists put in as many hours as they do, get taxed higher than everyone else, have federal/state plus if you're working in a different district even more tax, mal practice insurance putting your kids through school where everyone naturally presumes you're loaded so whatever financial aids others get is already denied you, paying rent, putting food on the table, paying for gas and garage and your zakat, you're practically left with nothing. And you're already starting your life later than everyone else.. & that is the doctors here who are actually getting a chance to practice. Since healthcare is not owned by the govt. Hospitals hold the right to train you or not, so in fact many end up doctors in title only and are working in pizza shops.. I just met an Egyptian doctor the other day who worked in a halal market. Imagine that..
Maybe you've it better there, but only Zionist doctors have it well here..

I think in America, with the privatisation of everything, the extremes of rich and poor are more visible perhaps. You can do extremely well in America with business, opening your own clinic, doing private work and you can be more successful than you can ever hope to be in the UK. It's just getting that break. Tell the Egyptian doctor to come work for the NHS, there are plenty of Egyptian doctors here. For some reason a lot of them (males) seem to be gynaecologists :/

But I see your point, taxes, rent, kids... everything adds up. It just reminds you how much the average person is struggling!

 

[جوري]

I think in America, with the privatisation of everything, the extremes of rich and poor are more visible perhaps. You can do extremely well in America with business, opening your own clinic, doing private work and you can be more successful than you can ever hope to be in the UK. It's just getting that break. Tell the Egyptian doctor to come work for the NHS, there are plenty of Egyptian doctors here. For some reason a lot of them (males) seem to be gynaecologists :/

But I see your point, taxes, rent, kids... everything adds up. It just reminds you how much the average person is struggling!

in shaa Allah he got in south Carolina after five years of trying..
Wanting a specialty here doesn't guarantee you'll get in.. and OBGYN is one of the least desired as they're the most sued not to mention terrible hours. more so than others..
It is hell in this country as they've the illusion of riches but they're always redefining what it means to be bankrupt by raising the debt ceiling.

 

[Banu_Hashim]

Wanting a specialty here doesn't guarantee you'll get in.. and OBGYN is one of the least desired as they're the most sued not to mention terrible hours. more so than others..
It is hell in this country as they've the illusion of riches but they're always redefining what it means to be bankrupt by raising the debt ceiling.

No, I know, I was just saying out of observation. I have heard (from an ophthalmologist working there in Boston), that Ophthalmology is one of the toughest to get into as a medical speciality.

How do General Practitioners fare over there? Here, they do quite well.

 

[جوري]

FM, Psychiatry and peds. are the lowest paid-- comparable to pharmacist salary when you even it out after tenure.. Radiology is the toughest to get into, so is ophthalmology and dermatology and obviously the best paid.
But half of your salary or nearly half goes to taxes and that's a fact of life here!

 

[Banu_Hashim]

Sadly the average pharmacist salary in the UK is terrible, especially after taxes compared to the US, so America does look inviting... I guess we just have to say alhamdulillah for what we have (in my case a lot tuition fees to pay).

 

[جوري]

yeah? what's the average pharmacist salary? You know you can do a residency? I don't know what you call those but you become specialized a clinical pharmacist..
pharmcists play a very active role here but it is severely stressful.. There's was a terrible case in my sister's hospital where there was an accidental intrathecal vincristine death.. involved everyone especially the pharmacy was a big case so sometimes I think retail is slightly less stressful although not without its problems..
Anyhow I don't think any other public servants as you put it experiences as much stress as those in healthcare.. You can't even sleep at night restful without the the fear or threat of someone calling you about some death or litigation etc.
America is a pretty litigious society I am not sure other countries experience this this level of stress.
I know personally three doctors that committed suicide, one of them was a pediatrician, she gassed herself in the car... it is really sad and unfortunate...

 

[CosmicPathos]

Doctors have every right to go on strike. The word "public servant" is not to be taken literally. Surprising that common population expects doctors to act like servants and have answers to ALL of their health problems.

No, dont blame bad behaviors, boozing out, smoking, playing extreme sports such as football or iceboarding ... but docs!

Ophthalmologists make the most (arguable, since derms and radiologists are also making more) then they also pay the most overhead. A ophtho I know paid $400,000 last year to the hospital for overhead costs.

 

[Banu_Hashim]

Doctors have every right to go on strike. The word "public servant" is not to be taken literally. Surprising that common population expects doctors to act like servants and have answers to ALL of their health problems.

No, dont blame bad behaviors, boozing out, smoking, playing extreme sports such as football or iceboarding ... but docs!

Ophthalmologists make the most (arguable, since derms and radiologists are also making more) then they also pay the most overhead. A ophtho I know paid $400,000 last year to the hospital for overhead costs.

In the UK, it is to be taken literally. The public pay for doctors' salary by tax, as they do for nurses, hospital pharmacists and other NHS staff. That is how the NHS is funded. The public are not expecting doctors to have ALL the answers as you put it, you're missing the point, but are concerned about them going against their duty of care, in the face of what seems to the ordinary person a big fuss over not getting 70K tax free, but rather 50K as a pension. No other healthcare professionals were striking who work equally as hard and put in long hours (nurses etc.). From the point of view of an ordinary citizen, the notion for demanding more money when doctors are not poor or underpaid is unfair. Granted, however, they do pay some of their salary into a 'pension pot'.

I also appreciate the long hours doctors (especially those qualifying in the 80's/90's and before that) put in the early stages of their careers, i.e. 120 hr weeks etc. This has changed for new cohorts however, max 48 hrs a week i think.

The reality is that most doctors actually went to work as normal seeing patients and trying to minimise the disruption to patients.

I don't know what the situation is in your country.

 

[Predator]

:salamext:

No. What if a patient has an emergency and they go to the hospital, and they die, just because a doctor wasn't there to save them?

It's a joke.

These pensions, etc. they are not ESSENTIAL in Islaam.

We should prepare for our Aakhirah rather than preparing for our Dunya.

I was in NHS pension but I have opted out of it. As I am in my mid 20's and the pension will be given to me after my 60's, so why waste 35 years of pension when that could help poor people around the world?

What ? Banned ?

 

[piXie]

people are often comforted by statistics. Is that what is going on here?

lol those statistics are hardly comforting. Alarming more like..