The thread must be named “Compilation of the Holy Quraan” instead of “Preservation”.

[OmAbdullah]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
​

The thread must be named “Compilation of the Holy Quraan” instead of “Preservation”.


Everyone (Muslim and non-Muslim) must note it that The Holy Quraan was and is preserved only and only by Allah, the All-Mighty God. If Allah didn’t preserve it then none could preserve it. But Allah took the responsibility to preserve it. Allah’s Promise can be seen in the verse 9 of the surah Al-Hijr. Its translation is here:


(9). Indeed, We have sent down the Admonition (the Qur'an) and indeed, We are its guardian.


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Allah didn’t preserve the Divine Books of the past (Tawrah, Zaboor /the psalm etc.) because Allah had a plan to send more Prophets and more Books. But Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was the Final of the Prophets and Quraan the final Revelation of Allah so Allah took the responsibility to preserve it so that:


1. It will remain in this world till its end as a source of guidance.

2. In the next world (in the life Hereafter) it shall be hujjah (proof) against the unbelievers.


On the Day of Judgment, the unbelievers will try their best to prove themselves innocent, they will lie a lot to protect themselves from Hell. So they will say that they were not guided, there was no source of guidance etc. Then the Quraan and the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) shall be brought as witnesses against them.


It is very easy to get the proof of the preservation of the Holy Quraan. Anyone can take two Quraans from different parts of the world and compare them. They shall not find the difference of a single letter in the two Quraans.


Here is an example:

As in the previous thread there was long argument about the two words “Malik and Maalik” in the Holy Quraan, so I took five (5) Quraans from my own house to compare the two words. I opened the surah Al-Faatihah and surah Al-Naas (An-Naas) in each of the five Qur’aans and saw the word Maalik in the surah Al-Faatihah and the word Malik in the surah Al-Naas(An-Naas). Allaaho-Akbar!!! I found that the words Maalik and Malik consisted of only three letters i.e. meem, laam and kaaf. In the surah Al-Faatihah, in each Quraan, the letter meem has a fat-ha and a short alif over it thus making it Maalik (Owner).
In the surah Al-Naas (An-Naas), in each Quraan, the letter meem has only a fat-ha over it (but no alif) thus making it Malik (King). These two are the great names of Allah.


There was no difference in the words in the five Quraans which are:

One printed in Saudi Arabia, the 2[SUP]nd is [/SUP]the English tafseer by Yousuf Ali which is printed in the USA. The 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] one is printed in Pakistan while the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] and 5[SUP]th[/SUP] printed in Damascus Syria.


So we see that the five Quraans which are printed in different countries have completely similar words Maalik in the surah Al-Faatihah and Malik in the surah Al-Naas.

This proves that the Holy Quraan is uniquely preserved by the All-Mighty God until now and will remain unchanged in future till the end of this world.

No man has preserved it. Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam received it through revelations and wrote it completely until it was perfected as Book not only in his hands but also its many copies were found with the companions not only in Madinah but also with the Bedouins outside Madinah. See the following statement from the icraa.org…:


"Towards the end of Prophet’s life writing Qur’an had become so wide spread that people wondered as how knowledge can be taken away from them while they have the masahif.

At the eve of the last sermon when the Messenger of Allah asked people to acquire knowledge “before it is taken away”, a Bedouin asked;

يا نبي الله، كيف يرفع العلم منا وبين أظهرنا المصاحف وقد تعلمنا ما فيها، وعلمنا نساءنا وذرارينا وخدمنا؟

“O Prophet of Allah! How knowledge can be taken away from us while masahif[SUP][30][/SUP] are with us and we learn their contents and teach it to our women, children and servants?”[SUP][31][/SUP]


Another observation to be made here is that it was a Bedouin who said “masahif are with us” showing that the practice of writing Qur’an had well spread even outside Madina and with people other than Muhajirin (Emigrants) and Ansar (Helpers) were also used to it.

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We see that the Bedouin or any other companion didn’t raise the question that the books of Quraan with them were not complete. Rather they all showed satisfaction due to having full Quraans and were surprised as to how will be the knowledge taken away while they had the Books of Quraan which they used to learn and teach?

So the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him), with the Command and help of Allah, did complete the Holy Quraan in all respects but its Preserver was Only Allah


Allah said in in Surah Fussilat (Hameem Al-Sajdah) verses 41—42 (translation):


41. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the message after it has come to them... And indeed, it is a mighty Book.

42. Falsehood cannot approach it from before it or from behind it; [it is] a revelation from a [Lord who is] Wise and Praiseworthy.

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And Allah said in the surah Al-Taariq (At-Taariq) verses 13 and 14 (translation):


13. Indeed, the Qur'an is a decisive statement,

14. And it is not amusement.

 

[AabiruSabeel]

Below are two scans from two different calligraphy types widely used in the world for printing the Qur'an. Which one of these do you have? Do you have both of them?

 

[OmAbdullah]

Below are two scans from two different calligraphy types widely used in the world for printing the Qur'an. Which one of these do you have? Do you have both of them?

In these two photos of the surah Al-Faatihah (taken from two different prints of the Holy Quraan), everyone can see the structure of Maalik in the aayat 4. (Bismillahi-r-Rahmaan-ir_Raheem is the first aayah). In each of them, the word Maalik has a short alif over it to make it long voweled which is pronounced as "Maalik".


Insha-Allah, I will post the photos of these surahs from 5 different prints of the Holy Quraan.

 

[AabiruSabeel]

In these two photos of the surah Al-Faatihah (taken from two different prints of the Holy Quraan), everyone can see the structure of Maalik in the aayat 4. (Bismillahi-r-Rahmaan-ir_Raheem is the first aayah). In each of them, the word Maalik has a short alif over it to make it long voweled which is pronounced as "Maalik".

That is simply because both of these are printed as per Hafs from 'Asim recitation.

Now in these same prints, go to Surah Al-Ahqaaf and recite the first 4 Ayaat.

Do you see anything?

 

[OmAbdullah]

That is simply because both of these are printed as per Hafs from 'Asim recitation.

Now in these same prints, go to Surah Al-Ahqaaf and recite the first 4 Ayaat.

Do you see anything?

What do you mean? You must come up with clear statement instead of ambiguity so that everyone can understand you. You have taken the name "Aabirusbeel" but unfortunately, you are fully involved in this world and have no care about the Here-After.


You are trying to convince people that Allah has not preserved the Quraan rather the huffaaz have preserved it. I believe that the above two prints are not printed from the recitation of a haafiz.


You must know that the ia'raab may not at all be present on the words of the Holy Quraan. If you take a letter written in Arabic, you will see that the text has no harakaat/ai'raab on the words. In the Arabic books all words are without fathah, damah and kasrah. But unfortunately, you have no knowledge.


In fact, if you are a true Muslim, then you must seek admonition in the Holy Quraan and convey it sincerely to all mankind. In case you are not a true Muslim, then you must remember that Allah is very Mighty and you cannot defeat Allah. If you want to prove that the Holy Quraan is not preserved miraculously, then you must bring copies with difference in the letters and words of the Holy Quraan. An example is the letter ق in the beginning of the surah Qaaf, and the letter ص in the beginning of the surah Saad.

 

[AabiruSabeel]

You are trying to convince people that Allah has not preserved the Quraan

نعوذ بالله من ذلك
How can anyone say that?!! Allah :swt: has preserved the Qur'an as He has promised it Himself in Surah Al-Hijr, Ayah #9.

You are trying to convince people that Allah has not preserved the Quraan rather the huffaaz have preserved it. I believe that the above two prints are not printed from the recitation of a haafiz.

There are various ways of preserving the Qur'an. Hafiz literally means the one who has saved. Hifz means to save, to preserve. Allah :swt: preserved the Qur'an through the Huffaz by saving it in their hearts, and as well as by the scribes who wrote it down in the Mushaf.

The Qur'an was not revealed down as a written tablet or as a written book. It was revealed as a recitation, and it is meant to be recited. The Prophet :saws: recited it and memorized it. The Sahabah heard from him and they too memorized it and wrote it down for future generations.

And as we all know, the Qur'an was revealed in 7 different dialects. Allah :swt: has preserved all the 7 Qira'ah of the Qur'an.

You are saying that Allah :swt: preserved it by writing it down first. That is not the case. First it was recited, memorized and then written down. All three steps were taken to preserve the Qur'an. It couldn't be written down without first being memorized.

You must know that the ia'raab may not at all be present on the words of the Holy Quraan. If you take a letter written in Arabic, you will see that the text has no harakaat/ai'raab on the words. In the Arabic books all words are without fathah, damah and kasrah. But unfortunately, you have no knowledge.

Alhamdulillah, I know that already. That is not the point we are discussing here.

then you must bring copies with difference in the letters and words of the Holy Quraan. An example is the letter ق in the beginning of the surah Qaaf, and the letter ص in the beginning of the surah Saad.

An example is already given in my post above #5. Recite the 4th Ayah once again. You will find that one print has the word ايتونى while the other print has ائتونى.

Can you explain that if you are knowledgeable enough?

(Just so that you do not call me names again, I know the answer already)

If you want to prove that the Holy Quraan is not preserved miraculously...

Well, I am not disputing the fact that Qur'an is preserved by Allah :swt: Himself, and that the mischeif makers can never be able to distort the Qur'an.

 

[OmAbdullah]

 

[OmAbdullah]

Insha -Allah, the rest will come later.

 

[OmAbdullah]

The Prophet :saws: recited it and memorized it. The Sahabah heard from him and they too memorized it and wrote it down for future generations.

And as we all know, the Qur'an was revealed in 7 different dialects. Allah :swt: has preserved all the 7 Qira'ah of the Qur'an.


An example is already given in my post above #5. Recite the 4th Ayah once again. You will find that one print has the word ايتونى while the other print has ائتونى.

Can you explain that if you are knowledgeable enough?

(Just so that you do not call me names again, I know the answer already)


Well, I am not disputing the fact that Qur'an is preserved by Allah :swt: Himself, and that the mischeif makers can never be able to distort the Qur'an.

نعوذ بالله من ذلك
How can anyone say that?!! Allah

has preserved the Qur'an as He has promised it Himself in Surah Al-Hijr, Ayah #9.



There are various ways of preserving the Qur'an. Hafiz literally means the one who has saved. Hifz means to save, to preserve. Allah

preserved the Qur'an through the Huffaz by saving it in their hearts, and as well as by the scribes who wrote it down in the Mushaf.

The Qur'an was not revealed down as a written tablet or as a written book. It was revealed as a recitation, and it is meant to be recited. The Prophet

recited it and memorized it. The Sahabah heard from him and they too memorized it and wrote it down for future generations.

And as we all know, the Qur'an was revealed in 7 different dialects. Allah

has preserved all the 7 Qira'ah of the Qur'an.

You are saying that Allah

preserved it by writing it down first. That is not the case. First it was recited, memorized and then written down. All three steps were taken to preserve the Qur'an. It couldn't be written down without first being memorized.

An example is already given in my post above #5. Recite the 4th Ayah once again. You will find that one print has the word ايتونى while the other print has ائتونى.

Can you explain that if you are knowledgeable enough?

(Just so that you do not call me names again, I know the answer already)


Well, I am not disputing the fact that Qur'an is preserved by Allah

Himself, and that the mischeif makers can never be able to distort the Qur'an.

The translation of the first 4 verses of the Surah Al-Ahqaaf is:


1. Ha, Meem.

2. The revelation of the Book is from Allah, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

3. We did not create the heavens and earth and what is between them except in truth and [for] a specified term. But those who disbelieve, from that of which they are warned, are turning away.

4. Say, [O Muhammad], "Have you considered that which you invoke besides Allah ? Show me what they have created of the earth; or did they have partnership in [creation of] the heavens? Bring me a scripture [revealed] before this or a [remaining] trace of knowledge, if you should be truthful."
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When non-Muslims come to read or hear these verses, they are struck with wonder and become more attentive to know more until they become Muslims. Islam is spreading fast in the west while the Muslims of the old time in the East and Middle East are disappearing fast from the surface of the earth. The reason is that Muslims, instead of taking admonition from the Holy Qur'aan, are searching it for things that they can put doubts in the hearts of the non-Arab Muslims as the latter are not expert in Arabic language! Such a one claims that he believes, but practically he is trying to put the ignorant people in doubt about Allah and Allah's Deen. Then such a one feels proud that he knows the cause of such things, he gives it the name of knowledge while he is in complete darkness. If he was in the light of Quraan then he would fear Allah and would not search minute things in the Holy Quraan and post it on the forum to put minds in doubt.


A learned person may know the answer of such minute difference but every Muslim may not know it and for the purpose of admonition, it is not at all needed to know such details.


Quraan is an Ocean of light. On the whole it is not an easy Book. But Allah made it easy for admonition. Our duty is to take the admonition from it and live by it so that we may be protected from the anger of Allah All-Mighty here and in the Here-After.



Respected readers (Muslims and non-Muslims),


The words “ ايتونى and ائتونى “ have the same meaning and almost the same sounding. They are the same word with two different spellings. The meaning is:


“You (plural 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] person, i.e. you all) bring to me” (a book)”


We are mainly concerned with the meaning and that is the same. I will transliterate the sounding of the two into English so that you can judge yourselves;


The first one is; ai-tooni or aeetoonee.
The 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] is: ai’tooni.


You can see the only minor difference that in the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] one there is an apostrophe after “I”. This apostrophe in the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] one comes due to a hamza saakinah on the nabirah after alif mamdoodah. But the meaning is the same.


Moreover, I heard the recitation of these four verses of the surah from three qaarees (two from Makkah, Masjidil-Haraam and Masjidin-Nabawi) and one Afasy. All of the three pronounced it like the first one i.e aeetoonee. Also I checked it in four Quraan printed in the non-Arab contouries. There I found it aeetoonee (the same sound as I heard from the three great qaarees. But two Quraans printed in Saudi Arabia and Damascus have the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] type which I didn’t hear from any of the three qaarees. Allah knows the best. May Allah forgive me for giving the above details. We see it clearly that Syria and Saudi Arabia are overtaken by terrible fitna. Syria is completely destroyed while Saudi Arabia is at the starting point. May Allah bring kher to all true and sincere Muslims (including us all).



I don’t want to say anything more about the Holy Quraan wording, may Allah forgive me what I have written above. Only Allah knows the best.

















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The Prophet

recited it andmemorized it. The Sahabah heard from him and they too memorized it and wrote itdown for future generations.

And as we all know, the Qur'an was revealed in 7 different dialects. Allah

has preservedall the 7 Qira'ah of the Qur'an.

You are saying that Allah

preserved it bywriting it down first. That is not the case. First it was recited, memorizedand then written down. All three steps were taken to preserve the Qur'an. Itcouldn't be written down without first being memorized.

The following is a statement from icraa.org...

After the initial years inMadinah Zaid bin Thabit seems to have gradually risen to the status of theprimary scribe of the Prophet. He lived in the neighborhood of the Prophet andwas called for whenever a revelation came. He himself reported:كنت جار رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فكان إذا نزل الوحي أرسل إليفكتبت الوحي“I was the neighbor of theMessenger of Allah. Whenever a revelation came down he called for me and Iwrote it down.”[SUP][17][/SUP]3.2.1 The Prophetdictated and checked for possible scribal errorsHow the Qur’an was writtenand how it was checked by the Prophet is evident from the following example:عن زيد بن ثابت قال: كنتأكتب الوحي لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، وكان إذا نزل عليه أخذته برحاء شديدة،وعرق عرقا شديدا مثل الجمان، ثم سري عنه ، فكنت أدخل عليه بقطعة الكتف أو كسرة،فأكتب وهو يملي علي، فما أفرغ حتى تكاد رجلي تنكسر من ثقل القرآن، وحتى أقول: لاأمشي على رجلي أبدا، فإذا فرغت قال: «اقرأه» ، فأقرؤه، فإن كان فيه سقط أقامه، ثمأخرج به إلى الناسZaid bin Thabit, one of thechief scribes, relates: “I used to write down the revelation for the blessedProphet – may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. When the revelationcame to him he felt intense heat and drops of perspiration used to roll downhis body like pearls. When this state was over I used to fetch a shoulder boneor a piece of something else. He used to go on dictating and I used to writeit down. When I finished writing the sheer weight of transcription gave methe feeling that my leg would break and I would not be able to walk anymore. Anyhowwhen I finished writing, he would say, ‘Read!’ and I would read it back to him.If there was an omission or error he used to correct it and then let it bebrought before the people.”[SUP][18][/SUP]This is a categorical proofthat Companions used to write Qur’an in the supervision of the blessed Prophetand got it checked from him before making it public.Making a revelation public also deserves to be highlighted because thisensured people immediately memorized and recorded it in their personal masahif.

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[Muhaba]

نعوذ بالله من ذلك
How can anyone say that?!! Allah :swt: has preserved the Qur'an as He has promised it Himself in Surah Al-Hijr, Ayah #9.



There are various ways of preserving the Qur'an. Hafiz literally means the one who has saved. Hifz means to save, to preserve. Allah :swt: preserved the Qur'an through the Huffaz by saving it in their hearts, and as well as by the scribes who wrote it down in the Mushaf.

The Qur'an was not revealed down as a written tablet or as a written book. It was revealed as a recitation, and it is meant to be recited. The Prophet :saws: recited it and memorized it. The Sahabah heard from him and they too memorized it and wrote it down for future generations.

And as we all know, the Qur'an was revealed in 7 different dialects. Allah :swt: has preserved all the 7 Qira'ah of the Qur'an.

You are saying that Allah :swt: preserved it by writing it down first. That is not the case. First it was recited, memorized and then written down. All three steps were taken to preserve the Qur'an. It couldn't be written down without first being memorized.



Alhamdulillah, I know that already. That is not the point we are discussing here.



An example is already given in my post above #5. Recite the 4th Ayah once again. You will find that one print has the word ايتونى while the other print has ائتونى.

Can you explain that if you are knowledgeable enough?

(Just so that you do not call me names again, I know the answer already)


Well, I am not disputing the fact that Qur'an is preserved by Allah :swt: Himself, and that the mischeif makers can never be able to distort the Qur'an.

What evidence do you have that Allah preserved the Quran through the huffaz?

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Oh I see what you did there haha!

you bore me

Do you have to mutter like someone brainless or you can't say anything legible? We happen to be discussing Allah's Book here, not something you can mock about.

 

[AabiruSabeel]

The words “ ايتونى and ائتونى “ have the same meaning and almost the same sounding. They are the same word with two different spellings. The meaning is:

“You (plural 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] person, i.e. you all) bring to me” (a book)”

We are mainly concerned with the meaning and that is the same. I will transliterate the sounding of the two into English so that you can judge yourselves;

The first one is; ai-tooni or aeetoonee.
The 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] is: ai’tooni.

You can see the only minor difference that in the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] one there is an apostrophe after “I”. This apostrophe in the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] one comes due to a hamza saakinah on the nabirah after alif mamdoodah. But the meaning is the same.

The translation or the meaning is not the actual point of discussion here.

The difference here between hamza and ya is based on the recitation. If a person joins the previous word samawaat with eetooni, then he has to recite with a hamza, as in this recitation by Shaikh Abdullah Juhany (one of the Imaams of Masjid Al-Haraam).
http://www.everyayah.com/data/Abdullaah_3awwaad_Al-Juhaynee_128kbps/046004.mp3

But if someone stops at samawaat, then he has to recite with a Ya, as recited by Shaikh Sa'ud Ash-Shuraim (another Imaam at Masjid Al-Haraam)
http://www.everyayah.com/data/Saood_ash-Shuraym_128kbps/046004.mp3


This indicates the importance of learning the Qur'an with a Qari' to avoid any mistakes, and this also proves the fallacy of your argument that negates the role of Qurra' in preserving the Qur'an.

Moreover, I heard the recitation of these four verses of the surah from three qaarees (two from Makkah, Masjidil-Haraam and Masjidin-Nabawi) and one Afasy. All of the three pronounced it like the first one i.e aeetoonee.

Shaikh Muhammad Ayyub :rh:, one of the former Imaams of masjid An-Nabawi, has beautifully indicated both types of recitations in a single recording. Once by joining both words and then again by reciting from the word eetooni.
http://www.everyayah.com/data/Muhammad_Ayyoub_128kbps/046004.mp3

Also I checked it in four Quraan printed in the non-Arab contouries. There I found it aeetoonee (the same sound as I heard from the three great qaarees. But two Quraans printed in Saudi Arabia and Damascus have the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] type which I didn’t hear from any of the three qaarees. Allah knows the best. May Allah forgive me for giving the above details. We see it clearly that Syria and Saudi Arabia are overtaken by terrible fitna. Syria is completely destroyed while Saudi Arabia is at the starting point. May Allah bring kher to all true and sincere Muslims (including us all).

The fitna in Syria is not related to the topic of the discussion here. You are implying that it is because they changed something in the Qur'an as you had stated earlier in another thread as well. But no, that is not the case. They have not changed anything in the Qur'an. The Qur'an has its 7 recitations, and each of those recitations have their specific Tajweed rules. You simply choose to ignore this fact and automatically assume that anything that goes against what you presume is false or distorted. Be open minded and learn more about the Qur'an and its qira'ah. The Tafheem is not the ultimate source of knowledge on Qur'an. It is just one tafseer among so many others.

The following is a statement from icraa.org...

After the initial years inMadinah Zaid bin Thabit seems to have gradually risen to the status of theprimary scribe of the Prophet. He lived in the neighborhood of the Prophet andwas called for whenever a revelation came. He himself reported:كنت جار رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فكان إذا نزل الوحي أرسل إليفكتبت الوحي“I was the neighbor of theMessenger of Allah. Whenever a revelation came down he called for me and Iwrote it down.”[SUP][17][/SUP]3.2.1 The Prophetdictated and checked for possible scribal errorsHow the Qur’an was writtenand how it was checked by the Prophet is evident from the following example:عن زيد بن ثابت قال: كنتأكتب الوحي لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، وكان إذا نزل عليه أخذته برحاء شديدة،وعرق عرقا شديدا مثل الجمان، ثم سري عنه ، فكنت أدخل عليه بقطعة الكتف أو كسرة،فأكتب وهو يملي علي، فما أفرغ حتى تكاد رجلي تنكسر من ثقل القرآن، وحتى أقول: لاأمشي على رجلي أبدا، فإذا فرغت قال: «اقرأه» ، فأقرؤه، فإن كان فيه سقط أقامه، ثمأخرج به إلى الناسZaid bin Thabit, one of thechief scribes, relates: “I used to write down the revelation for the blessedProphet – may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. When the revelationcame to him he felt intense heat and drops of perspiration used to roll downhis body like pearls. When this state was over I used to fetch a shoulder boneor a piece of something else. He used to go on dictating and I used to writeit down. When I finished writing the sheer weight of transcription gave methe feeling that my leg would break and I would not be able to walk anymore. Anyhowwhen I finished writing, he would say, ‘Read!’ and I would read it back to him.If there was an omission or error he used to correct it and then let it bebrought before the people.”[SUP][18][/SUP]This is a categorical proofthat Companions used to write Qur’an in the supervision of the blessed Prophetand got it checked from him before making it public.Making a revelation public also deserves to be highlighted because thisensured people immediately memorized and recorded it in their personal masahif.

I am not disputing this fact. I believe and acknowledge all the Sahih Ahadeeth related to the preservation and compilation of the Qur'an. You are the one falsifying the hadith of Zaid ibn Thabit :ra:, which was posted here: Preservation of Qur'an

 

[AabiruSabeel]

Allah :swt: preserved the Qur'an through the Huffaz by saving it in their hearts, and as well as by the scribes who wrote it down in the Mushaf.

What evidence do you have that Allah preserved the Quran through the huffaz?

Read my complete statement, not just one part of it.

If it was not for the Huffaz and Qurra, then 'Umar :ra: wouldn't be so worried when several of them were martyred at Yamama. See the hadith posted here once again and it explains the role and importance of Qurra in preserving the Qur'an and the need for compiling it all in one Mushaf.

 

[AabiruSabeel]

And what!!!

Are the people changing the name of Quraan to Mas-haf?

And are they making different kinds of Quraan with the names Masa-hif? Are they trying to remove the name “Al-Qur’aan”?

No! NO!. This is an attack on the Preservation of the Holy Quraan in which you are with them.

---

This hadeeth does NOT give the permission to fabricate many kinds of Quraans, to divide Quraan into 7 kinds and to change the name of the Quraan to “Mas-haf this” and “Mas-haf that”.

Isn't the word mushaf present in the Hadith that you have quoted yourself?

At the eve of the last sermon when the Messenger of Allah asked people to acquire knowledge “before it is taken away”, a Bedouin asked;

يا نبي الله، كيف يرفع العلم منا وبين أظهرنا المصاحف وقد تعلمنا ما فيها، وعلمنا نساءنا وذرارينا وخدمنا؟

“O Prophet of Allah! How knowledge can be taken away from us while masahif[30] are with us and we learn their contents and teach it to our women, children and servants?”[31]

If you do not know about something, then do not argue about it. The meaning of the word mushaf was explained in detail here: Preservation of Qur'an

The the muqaddamah to Tafheem of Maulana Maududi has been changed a lot. Alas!

Another baseless accusation, simply because it does not confirm your presumption.

 

[OmAbdullah]

Isn't the word mushaf present in the Hadith that you have quoted yourself?



If you do not know about something, then do not argue about it. The meaning of the word mushaf was explained in detail here: Preservation of Qur'an

Another baseless accusation, simply because it does not confirm your presumption.

و أفوض أمري إلى الله إن الله بصير بالعباد



You have no evidence for any of your statement. you can only bring to me the contradictory sentences of the liars who contradicted the Quraan and ahaadeeth on the net.


You say that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam memorized the Quraan. From where do you say these words? The Quraan is the proof that Allah and only Allah preserved the Quraan in the memory of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallm as soon as he heard the revelation from Jibreel alaihi salaam.


In the beginning he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam used to try to recite it hastily with Jibreel alaihi salaam, then in three surahs Allah gave him advice not to make haste, just listen to it and Allah will make him recite it to people and that he will not forget.


What I say, I present the concrete evidence for it from the Holy Quraan but what you say, you have no evidence for it. The evidence of my saying is here:


Surah Al-Qiyamah verses 16---19.


16. Move not your tongue with it, [O Muhammad], to hasten with recitation of the Qur'an.

17. Indeed, upon Us is its collection [in your heart] and [to make possible] its recitation.


18. So when We have recited it [through Gabriel], then follow its recitation.


19. Then upon Us is its clarification [to you].


Similarly every one can see in surah Taha and surah Al-A'la further evidence of the urgent preservation of the Holy Quraan in the mind of the Final Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and then he managed it to be written, then he rechecked it and after that it was made public for the people.


Surah Taha verse 114:

114. So high [above all] is Allah, the Sovereign, the Truth. And, [O Muhammad], do not hasten with [recitation of] the Qur'an before its revelation is completed to you, and say, "My Lord, increase me in knowledge."



Surah Al-A'la verses 6 and 7:


6. We will make you recite, [O Muhammad], and you will not forget,


7. Except what Allah should will. Indeed, He knows what is declared and what is hidden.

*******************************************************************************************


If you say that the two words are different recitations, then remember that just on the bases of recitation,no one can change the wording of the Holy Quraan, you are absolutely wrong in this explanation. My explanation is correct because between the two words there is minute difference only in recitation while in the meaning these are the same. It is just like one word with two types of spellings.


You are indeed trying to attack the POWER of ALLAh All-Mighty in the Preservation of the Holy Quraan. Again I end this story with the words of the Holy Quraan:


و أفوض أمرى إلى الله إن الله بصير با لعباد

 

[Muhaba]

Read my complete statement, not just one part of it.

If it was not for the Huffaz and Qurra, then 'Umar :ra: wouldn't be so worried when several of them were martyred at Yamama. See the hadith posted here once again and it explains the role and importance of Qurra in preserving the Qur'an and the need for compiling it all in one Mushaf.

I meant evidence from Quran or Sunnah / Hadith of Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم.

No, Allah Himself took care of preserving the Quran, as He states in Surat Al-Hijr, إنَّا نحن نزلنا الذكر و إنَّا له لحافظون

What you are implying is grievous because you remove the miraculous nature of Quran preservation by saying it’s been preserved because of human effort.

The fact is that the text of Quran is unchangeable for the sole reason that Allah has guarded it. Otherwise, someone would have, through the years, brought a copy with changes and falsified Allah’s statement that He has preserved the Quran. Note that the word used for guarding in this verse ( حافظون ) is a noun and not a verb. The literal meaning of the words isn’t “We preserved the Quran “ or “We are preserving it,” or even “We are its Guardian,” but that “We are the Guardian for it.”

Please note each word used in the original. They stress the power and strength of the statement. إنَّا نحن نزلنا الذكر و إنَّا له لحافظون.

Note how many times the verse has repetition of words for certainty as well as the pronoun We repeated many times (إنَّا ، نحن، ل ) to stress the certainty that Allah Himself through His own Power is guarding the Quran.

Please don’t say it is through huffaz (memorizers) or qurra (reciters) or other human effort that the Quran is preserved. It is not. (The Quran is preserved because Allah has preserved it and that is one of the greatest proofs that it is the Book of Allah.No other book can remain unadulterated even with modern copyright methods.)

 

[talibilm]

Mashallah , pleased to see our Brothers and Sisters have continued their respective efforts to find the Haq ( as each one of them understands with their respective knowledge of Arabic) and reading & trying those letters with my limited Arabic ( i do not know much about grammar ) my pronunciation of them does not seem to vary considerably & So are its meanings.

As its agreed by All , like its ONLY Allah who is spreading Islam at the fastest pace than all other religions through ONLY the glorious Quran (in spite of Islamophobia) NOT THE BORN MUSLIMS ( our Muslim Dawah and efforts are less than 5 % when compared to Non Muslims & missionaries) So is the preservation of the Glorious Quran , Allah was and is Preserving it through multiple channels and even by doubts of people by which it only strengthens the genuinity of the Quran and Islam , like the SLANDER term 'muslims are terrorists'' actually helped Islam more by More non muslims reading and fact finding the Glorious Quran

 

[AabiruSabeel]

@Muhaba,

Did I deny anywhere that the Qur'an is miraculously preserved by Allah :swt:? Do not put words in my mouth.

OmAbdullah falsified the Hadith of Zaid ibn Thabit :ra: and she falsely attributed the compilation or collection of the Qur'an as one book in a single binding to the Prophet :saws:. I was simply refuting that claim based on authentic Ahadeeth.

Then came up the concept of different Qira'ah which she is apparently ignorant about. We tried informing her about it, but she keeps arguing against it.


It seems both of you think that the written copy of the Qur'an (which is commonly known as mushaf) is the actual preserved book since the time of the Prophet :saws:. You are only partially right. The written copy is indeed preserved, but along with that, the oral recitation of the Qur'an is also preserved.

You seem to be denying the role of Huffaz and Qurra'. Tell me, without the presence of any Qari, how is one supposed to learn proper tajweed?

As I have already pointed out in another thread, there are continuous sanad for the qira'ah even until now.


Let me quote the following post from the previous thread which summarizes the whole issue:

The problem might be, that the Quran is being thought of in the conventional sense of a book. i.e. if it wasn’t all collected in one volume, it wasn’t preserved properly, naoothubillah.

Allah promised to preserve the Quran. And He did. It was all written during the Prophets lifetime. The prophet :saws: had told what order the Surahs were to go in. Many companions, as in the page above you’ve quoted from, did have large portions in their own personal masahif (the collections of parchments the Quran was written on). But no one had all of it, as they were revealed at different places and times, when different people were around the Prophet :saws:. The Quran was completely revealed, recorded in hearts and in writing, and its order elucidated. It was already fully preserved.

Our modern day notion is that it should have been a book like how we know today, at that time, for it to be preserved. But that is not the case. The companions wanted to safeguard it for the generations to come, so Allah put into their hearts, that this should be done, as part of His plan to preserve the Quran.

The scholars agree on this, there is lots of evidence from statements of the Sahaba radiyallahu anhum recorded in Saheeh collections. Yes, Allah says in the Quran, dhaalikal kitaabu. It was also referred to as kitaab even in some Makki Surahs when it was not yet a kitaab in the conventional sense. The prophet :saws: was told “Iqra” even when there was not yet anything to read or recite. But this clearly doesn’t mean that it was a book in one volume.

Even in the muqaddamah to Tafheem, Maulana Maududi says that this book should not be thought of in any way as in the conventional sense of a book.

--- updated ---

حَدَّثَنَا حَفْصُ بْنُ عُمَرَ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ عَمْرٍو، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، عَنْ مَسْرُوقٍ، ذَكَرَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عَمْرٍو عَبْدَ اللَّهِ بْنَ مَسْعُودٍ فَقَالَ لاَ أَزَالُ أُحِبُّهُ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏ "‏ خُذُوا الْقُرْآنَ مِنْ أَرْبَعَةٍ مِنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مَسْعُودٍ وَسَالِمٍ وَمُعَاذٍ وَأُبَىِّ بْنِ كَعْبٍ ‏"‏‏.‏​

Narrated Masrooq:
`Abdullah bin `Amr :ra: mentioned `Abdullah bin Masud :ra: and said, "I shall ever love that man, for I heard the Prophet :saws: saying, 'Take (learn) the Qur'an from four: `Abdullah bin Masud, Salim, Mu`adh and Ubai bin Ka`b.' " [Bukhari]


The prophet :saws: did not say take this printed or written copy of the Qur'an and learn from it. Rather, he asked them to learn the Qur'an from the Qurra', because Qur'an is meant for recitation and correct recitation can only be learnt from Qurra', not by simply reading from written book.

 

[azc]

[MENTION=36347]OmAbdullah[/MENTION]

“O Prophet of Allah! How knowledge can be taken away from us while masahif [30]are with us and we learn their contents and teach it to our women, children and servants?”

narration of Bukhari can't be nixed by this narration.

"Towards the end of Prophet’s life writing Qur’an had become so wide spread that people wondered as how knowledge can be taken away from them while they have the masahif.

''Sahaba ikram ra had written Quran in ''masahif and tablets'' ( e.g. Riqa, asib, likhaf) (Musnad Ahmad 2/45, kanzul ummal, al masahif lil ibn Dawud)... It means they had written Quranic surahs on many riqa, asib, likhaf and each one was known as ''Mushaf''

We see that the Bedouin or any other companion didn’t raise the question that the books of Quraan with them were not complete. Rather they all showed satisfaction due to having full Quraans and were surprised as to how will be the knowledge taken away while they had the Books of Quraan which they used to learn and teach?

During prophetic era Quran had been compiled verse wise from 1st to 114th surah on different parchments etc though but it wasn't in form of a binded book as we have today. The first (complete) mushaf (all surahs in a binded book) is related to Hz abu bakar ra. Hz Hafsa ra had this mushaf which was demanded by Hz Uthman ra when he compiled the Quran on lughat e (dialect) Quraish.

 

[OmAbdullah]

@OmAbdullah narration of Bukhari can't be nixed by this narration. ''Sahaba ikram ra had written Quran in ''masahif and tablets'' ( e.g. Riqa, asib, likhaf) (Musnad Ahmad 2/45, kanzul ummal, al masahif lil ibn Dawud)... It means they had written Quranic surahs on many riqa, asib, likhaf and each one was known as ''Mushaf'' During prophetic era Quran had been compiled verse wise from 1st to 114th surah on different parchments etc though but it wasn't in form of a binded book as we have today. The first (complete) mushaf (all surahs in a binded book) is related to Hz abu bakar ra. Hz Hafsa ra had this mushaf which was demanded by Hz Uthman ra when he compiled the Quran on lughat e (dialect) Quraish.

و أفوض أمرى إلى الله إن الله بصير با لعباد

وكفى بالله حسيبا

 

[azc]

The History of the Magnificent Qur’an’, expounds upon the history of the Noble Qur’an, following the journey of the Qur’an, from it’s revelation, all the way through to its compilation and preservation to this date.....http://www.darultahqiq.com/the-magnificent-quran-a-unique-history-of-preservation/