To the People of Islam

Re: People of Islam

What I will like to ask is can atheists be ethical?
 
listen what I am saying is that, the proper Islam, which is rid of any innovation by anyone else, is the exact same Islam that was practiced by muhammad SAW, these other "sects" are not following what Prophet Muhammad SAW followed.

and what I mean is that, no matter how much they differ on little things (how much the different sects differ) the theology is the same, that there is no god. because it is so simple, even a baby can understand it.
 
Re: People of Islam

Idris said:
What I will like to ask is can atheists be ethical?
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I think they can, because being ethical is one's nature (fitra), I know an athiest that is very kind, nice, ethical..
 
Re: People of Islam

Link said:
I think they can, because being ethical is one's nature (fitra), I know an athiest that is very kind, nice, ethical..
Click to expand...

Link

Check out this guy Spinosa that AE was talking about.

http://www.friesian.com/spinoza.htm

We find the answer to this question in the realization that Spinoza is not entirely a modern thinker and that his God in fact has antecedents in the Middle Ages. It is too easy to get carried away with the evident conformity of Spinoza's system to the requirements of science and overlook the foot that it still has planted firmly in Mediaeval Jewish mysticism. Mediaeval Jewish philosophy, in fact, was closely allied to the Neoplatonic philosophical tradition of Late Antiquity, as this had been taken up and developed during the intellectual flowering of Islâm in the 9th century. The details of Spinoza's metaphysics, ironically but significantly, share much more with Islâmic theology that with that of either Judaism or Christianity. It is not clear that Spinoza was even aware of this (or that "Benedict" would be a better translation of Muh.ammad, "Praised," than of "Baruch"), but it could even be said to be the result of a similar emphasis on the uniqueness and power of God.

Mediaeval Jewish philosophy reached its height in Spain with Moses Maimonides (1135-1204) and Moses Nahmanides (1194-1270), as Mediaeval Jewish mysticism reached its height with the Zohar of the Spanish Jew Moses ben Shem Tov. Although more rationalistic than Nahmanides, Maimonides, one of the greatest philosophers of the Middle Ages, was nevertheless in the Neoplatonic tradition that had originally mixed both considerable rationalism and mysticism, i.e. the belief in the possibility of personal knowledge, even union, with God and the notion that "religious" truths are often really rational truths packaged in a way comprehensible to the masses. Such views are the most plainly and accessibly stated in Lenn Goodman's translation of the book of the Spanish Islâmic philosopher Ibn Tufayl, Hayy Ibn Yaqzan. Islâmic philosophers eventually got in trouble for such ideas. Jewish philosophers were less likely to get in trouble with the authorities, until, that is, Spinoza.

We can gather how this works in Spinoza by examing the details of his metaphysics, as found in Book I of his postumously published Ethics. The fundamental thing to keep in mind when thinking about Spinoza is one simple, striking, and paradoxical proposition: God is the only thing that exists. Although a relatively unfamiliar notion in Western philosophy and religion, this is a venerable position in India, and Spinoza's theory can be classified as a version of "qualified Advaita Vedânta," where everything that we ordinarily think of as existing, does exist as a part of God. It is also noteworthy that the Jewish-Islâmic Mediaeval mystical tradition also approached this. L.H. Grunebaum says of the Sufis, the Islamic mystics, "The mere attribution of reality to any entity besides the One is polytheism" [Medieval Islam, University of Chicago, 1946, 1969, p. 133].
 
God is the only absolute existence means only God exists on his own, and always existed, while everything else came into being by his command and exists by his permission and if God willed, he could cause it all to dissapear, thus they don't have a real existence on their own and are really shadow beings that exist only due to the real absolute living who exists in the absolute sense

I think every monothiest would come to this conclusion, and it's not a just a sufi or kabala (jewish mysticism) or indian thought.

I recomend this book http://www.al-islam.org/philosophy/ , this deals with today's science aswell and it shows conclusive logical proofs of God's existance
 
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Cynical You say....?
You're - like usual- right.

IDRIS: "But i bet it's just the begining of Your questions. Am I right?" - sorry, completely pointless.

n.
 
Link said:
God is the only absolute existence means only God exists on his own, and always existed, while everything else came into being by his command and exists by his permission and if God willed, he could cause it all to dissapear, thus they don't have a real existence on their own and are really shadow beings that exist only due to the real absolute living who exists in the absolute sense

I think every monothiest would come to this conclusion, and it's not a just a sufi or kabala (jewish mysticism) or indian thought.

I recomend this book http://www.al-islam.org/philosophy/ , this deals with today's science aswell and it shows conclusive logical proofs of God's existance
Click to expand...

Thanks for the book Link.

I will read it, I have always wanted to read a book about Islam philosophy.

The Atheist
 
not trying to be rude or anything but are you (athiest)english speaking?
because i don't always seem to understand what you are saying.
 
Re: People of Islam

Idris said:
What I will like to ask is can atheists be ethical?
Click to expand...
Of course atheists can be ethical!

This is a definition of 'ethics' as I found it in www.dictionary.com:
"The study of the general nature of morals and of the specific moral choices to be made by a person; moral philosophy"

As you see, ethics are not necessarily dependent on religious teachings and principles, although they can be.

My atheist husband is one of the most caring, loving, helpful and charitable people I know, and he has high moral and ethical standards. :statisfie

He would say (rightly or wrongly) that his ethical choices are more meaningful because they are not based on religious teachings. It means that he does things solely because he is convinced it is the right way - not for any other reason, such as a the approval of a deity, a reward in the after-life or the escape from eternal punishment ...

Food for thought ... or so I think!
As followers of our respective religions we should ask ourselves once in a while what motivates us to behave in certain ways ...

peace.
 
Re: People of Islam

glo said:
Why do you think he is a forum troll, trying to turn people away?
He clearly comes with an atheist message - that's his right. We do welcome people a different faiths and none, don't we?? :?

Sometimes people have different views to our own. That can be tought to deal with - especially if those people are knowledgeable and articulate in their argument! :rollseyes
No reason to try and talk badly about them, though, if you ask me.

Th Athiest is new here. Let's welcome him and hear him out. :)

Peace.
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i agree with glo, we should let every1 hav their say
 

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