Tough Love for Israel?

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There was a good Op-Ed piece by Nicholas Kristof in the times today. It was his response to some pro-Israel challenges to his last piece. I wanted to see what some of you thought.

Link - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/o...em&ex=1217131200&en=7845ac1e55badb6c&ei=5087

Tough Love for Israel?
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: July 24, 2008

On his visit to the Middle East, Barack Obama gave ritual affirmations of his support for Israeli policy, but what Israel needs from America isn’t more love, but tougher love.

Particularly at a time when Israel seems to be contemplating military strikes on Iranian nuclear sites, the United States would be a better friend if it said: “That’s crazy” — while also insisting on a 100 percent freeze on settlements in the West Bank and greater Jerusalem.
 
Gator said:
There was a good Op-Ed piece by Nicholas Kristof in the times today. It was his response to some pro-Israel challenges to his last piece. I wanted to see what some of you thought.

Link - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/o...em&ex=1217131200&en=7845ac1e55badb6c&ei=5087

Tough Love for Israel?
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: July 24, 2008

On his visit to the Middle East, Barack Obama gave ritual affirmations of his support for Israeli policy, but what Israel needs from America isn’t more love, but tougher love.

Particularly at a time when Israel seems to be contemplating military strikes on Iranian nuclear sites, the United States would be a better friend if it said: “That’s crazy” — while also insisting on a 100 percent freeze on settlements in the West Bank and greater Jerusalem.
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Wouldn't work because it's based on the 1967 borders. Islam does not allow muslims to give up one inch of land. The resistance would just continue.
 
Its going to have to be '67 borders. This is a palestinian thing not purely a muslim thing. If it means real peace and both side give to get, it'll work. Yeah hardcore would pursue resistance but it would stabilze the country enough for moderates.
 
Gator said:
Its going to have to be '67 borders. This is a palestinian thing not purely a muslim thing. If it means real peace and both side give to get, it'll work. Yeah hardcore would pursue resistance but it would stabilze the country enough for moderates.
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You don't understand it is a muslim thing. Even if the Palestinians agree Egyptian, Saudi, Iraqi, Iranian, Lebanese, etc. muslms will not accept this. It is not Palestinains land to give up it belongs to Allah.
 
Look, the majority of people/countries are a lot more pragmatic than you think. They will be happy to just have this over with.
 
Izyan said:
You don't understand it is a muslim thing. Even if the Palestinians agree Egyptian, Saudi, Iraqi, Iranian, Lebanese, etc. muslms will not accept this. It is not Palestinains land to give up it belongs to Allah.
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the whole world belongs to Allah...

If the Palestinians can accept an independent state in accordance to pre 1967 border, other Muslims should have no problem accepting it.

it's Palestinian land, and not all Palestinians are Sunnis..there are Shiite Palestinians, Druze Palestinians, Catholic Palestinians, Orthodox Palestinians, Protestant Palestinians, Jewish Palestinians and Atheist Palestinians.
 
I do agree with Izyan here, I don't think real piece will ever be achieved until Palestinians regain the entire Palestine.
If Israel withdraws from West Bank, Palestinians will most likely see this a s a victory, a reason for further fighting, anything that Israel does will be seen as a reason for further fighting...
 
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heck yeah we will never give it up, we will keep passing the legacy on and on, i will teach my kids to never give up palestine and they will do so with their kids and their kids etc etc

as i said, the palestinians will make peace, then get stronger, just as the Muslims did with the pagans, they made a treaty, and within 2 years they marched to Makkah with 10,000 Muslims and took Makkah back without a fight.
 
The_Prince said:
heck yeah we will never give it up, we will keep passing the legacy on and on, i will teach my kids to never give up palestine and they will do so with their kids and their kids etc etc

as i said, the palestinians will make peace, then get stronger, just as the Muslims did with the pagans, they made a treaty, and within 2 years they marched to Makkah with 10,000 Muslims and took Makkah back without a fight.
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YES AMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN YA RAB>>>>> go PALI
 
So if Palestinians will accept nothing short of eliminating the nation of Israel (and taking back all the land as Palestine), why should Israel show up at the negotiation table? Seems to me that if this is the case then Israel has nothing to gain in talks and would be better advised to simply squash the palestinians.
 
The_Prince said:
heck yeah we will never give it up, we will keep passing the legacy on and on, i will teach my kids to never give up palestine and they will do so with their kids and their kids etc etc

as i said, the palestinians will make peace, then get stronger, just as the Muslims did with the pagans, they made a treaty, and within 2 years they marched to Makkah with 10,000 Muslims and took Makkah back without a fight.
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I can not believe the palestinian people would be as dishonorable (if you mean going back on your word) as that.
 
It's been ongoing for ages. I feel for the Palistinian younger generation who do not have the life they do in Israel. They've moved on, yet the Palis do not invest and make it a place to live in comfortably. Israel will remain, nobody can make them leave, unless it results in a war. Who knows who'll win. But it requires both countries to be lenient towards each other and think of how they can come to a solution.
 
Gator said:
I can not believe the palestinian people would be as dishonorable (if you mean going back on your word) as that.
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It's not the Palestinians but muslims in general. Let's say the Pals agree to a peaces treaty. Muslims in Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria are under no obligation to respect it because muslims believe they have the right to the whole of Palestine and it isn't the Palestinians to barter away.
 
Izyan said:
It's not the Palestinians but muslims in general. Let's say the Pals agree to a peaces treaty. Muslims in Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria are under no obligation to respect it because muslims believe they have the right to the whole of Palestine and it isn't the Palestinians to barter away.
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i am a Palestinian and i agree with this, it isnt for us only, we will take it all back and 99% of all Palis feel the same. it seems you have a fantasy vision of us Palestinians that we dont want all the land back and just the 67 land and be happy, you are dreaming. This is your infidelic plan to try and pit us Palestinians against the none-Palestinian Muslims which isnt the case, it isnt the Muslims only who want all of the land back, but the Palestinian Muslims as well. so please dont think you know or understand us because you never will, and i am a Palestinian telling you this.

I wont stop exposing the zionists until my familly can resettle in their village again, the same for the millions of other Palis like me. The legacy will be passed on till the hadiths of the prophet Muhammad come to light.
 
The_Prince said:
i am a Palestinian and i agree with this, it isnt for us only, we will take it all back and 99% of all Palis feel the same. it seems you have a fantasy vision of us Palestinians that we dont want all the land back and just the 67 land and be happy, you are dreaming. This is your infidelic plan to try and pit us Palestinians against the none-Palestinian Muslims which isnt the case, it isnt the Muslims only who want all of the land back, but the Palestinian Muslims as well. so please dont think you know or understand us because you never will, and i am a Palestinian telling you this.

I wont stop exposing the zionists until my familly can resettle in their village again, the same for the millions of other Palis like me. The legacy will be passed on till the hadiths of the prophet Muhammad come to light.
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I didn't say you just wanted the 67 lands back. I was posing a hypothetical. I know the Pals feel your way.
 
Yeah, it would be great to have the whole thing back for the average Palestinian, but that's never going to happen. The Israelis will do it just to show the world that the Palestinians and Muslims can not be trusted and then they will roll back in.
 
Hopefully there are enough realistic and pragmatic Palestinians to seek a true end to the conflict. If not, Israel will have the justification it needs to increase its military operations against Hamas. It isn't hard to figure out who will suffer as a result.
 

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