Use of 'Infidel' and 'Kafir'

[Uthman]

Greetings Root,

Also, again this site reffered to me as a Kaafirs, Getting tired of that racist remark.

Well, it depends on how you take it. It is not always intended in a racist manner. Sometimes it is just used to denote a non muslim.

 

[Ra`eesah]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Peace be to those who follow the guidance, and may the Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon His final Prophet Muhammad, and to proceed..

The Arabic word known as "Kafir" is not a racist comment nor is it a slander. The word "KAFIR" is used loosely and most of the time misunderstood.

looking at the word "KAFIR" we see that it derives from the arabic root word KAFARA meaning "denier" or "concealer." ​

According to the arabic lexicon a Farmer would be called a "Kafir" because he plants the seeds and "Covers" them with soil.​

In Quran this term has also been used for all those who hide things thou they are knowing its truthfulness. Any one who will not act according to the laws of Almighty they commit kufr.​

So the kafir denies the existence of Reality and covers over the truth So its not a "racist remark" its just that the term "Kafir" is used to describe those who have "Disbelieved" in the message of Islam (i.e. the prophethood of Muhammad, the Qur'an being God's book and the Oneness of Allah). So I ask you do you believe that Allah is the One true God, and that Muhammad is His final Messenger and Prophet? Do you believe that the Qur'an is the flawless book revealed by Allah the Almighty Lord of the Worlds to His final Prophet Muhammad, through the Angel Gabriel? ​

If you answer is no to all or any one of these questions then you have "Kaffired in Islam", you are "rejecting" "denying" " concealing" Or, in more understandable transliteration, "You are a Kafir"

 

[Ra`eesah]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Just an interesting fact that i'd like to bring to your attention, that the english word "Cover" has infact undoubtedly derived from the arabic word "Kafir".

Allow me to explain why.

The "Ka" of "Kafir" sounds very similar to the "Co" of "Cover" when pronounced. - The only difference is that the sound changes from "KA" to "KO" when the vocal chords in your throat are positioned accordingly, without even having to move a muscle in your face to be able to change the sound.

The "F" in the word "Kafir" is very similar to the letter "V" in Cover - When pronouning the "F" in Kafir or the "V" in "Cover", notice that your front teeth come in contact with your botton lip, and you are able to switch from the "F" sound to the "V" sound without having to re-adjust the position of your teeth or lip. Another example we can use is the word "OF" notice that its spelled with the letter F and not V even though when pronounced its quite the contrary.

The "ER" in Cover also sounds very similar to the "IR" in "Kafir" - Note that the "E" and the "I" are very similar in pronounciation, and a few similarities between the two letters are:

1) They used together in many english words such as "FrIEnd" and "ScIEnce"
2) When you pronounce words such as "Position" it sounds like "Posishen", thus the similarity in pronounciation of the "E" in "Cover" and "I" in Kafir.

And needless to say, the final letter of the two words are identical, both being "R"

An important note to bring to your attention is the fact that the English language has been in use for only the past 1000 years (According to dictionaries and encyclopedias http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=english), where the Arabic language has been around for 1425 years. Obviously we conclude from this fact that that the word "Cover" did not even exist when the arabs were saying "Kafir".
After reading all of this evidence, does it leave any doubt in your mind that the English word Cover is derived from the Arabic word Kafir? Contemplate over it.


A final note to the non-Muslims here, research all of this for yourself and research the message of Islam, so that you may have peace with yourself and peace with the One who has created you out of nothing, and has made you into the perfectly modelled Human Being that you are, and who has blessed you with all of your 5 senses. He asks nothing of you but to worship Him the way He has commanded you to worship Him, for He is the Most Great, Most Wise and Most Merciful to His devout servant.

 

[Uthman]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims ali



There are, in fact a variety of English words of Arabic Origin. You can find those here

 

[root]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Well, it depends on how you take it. It is not always intended in a racist manner. Sometimes it is just used to denote a non muslim.

You mean like describing a black person "Nigger"!

In Quran this term has also been used for all those who hide things thou they are knowing its truthfulness. Any one who will not act according to the laws of Almighty they commit kufr.

I don't know about you but I would call that person a "Lier".....

After reading all of this evidence, does it leave any doubt in your mind that the English word Cover is derived from the Arabic word Kafir? Contemplate over it

Like a cover up, a Lie.

What about the Haram question?

 

[Uthman]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims ali

You mean like describing a black person "Nigger"!

The word nigger by definition is derogatory and offensive. The word Kaafir however can have different connotations depending on the way it is used. In a religion sense it means non-muslim but people sometimes adapt it's meaning to be a form of name-calling.

 

[Ra`eesah]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Assalamu'Alaykum

Ajeeb the word "cover" is not there... maybe i should write to them, anyhow root call them a liar fine now define the term LIAR?

A LIE is a statement that deviates from or perverts the truth

A LIAR Someone who HIDES the TRUTH....

and a liar who lies agains Allah and His messenger is considered a "Kafir" i.e. a "Disbeliever"

 

[czgibson]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Greetings everyone,
We've got some linguistic analysis creeping into the thread - I work with the English language in my job, so I hope you don't mind if I chip in here.

After reading all of this evidence, does it leave any doubt in your mind that the English word Cover is derived from the Arabic word Kafir? Contemplate over it.

I can say I still have some doubts, as the word seems to have European roots. Have a look at this etymology of "cover", from Dictionary.com:

[Middle English coveren, from Old French covrir, from Latin cooperre, to cover completely : co-, intensive pref.; see co- + operre, to cover; see wer-4 in Indo-European Roots.]

Was the word "kafir" around before Latin? (Not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know.)

The word "nigger" has a straightforward root in the Latin word "niger", meaning "black". It originated as a purely descriptive term (as in the name of the country Nigeria), but has relatively recently become used as a term of abuse. So here again it seems that the definition of the word itself is not insulting, but its use can be.

3washey, thanks for the message to non-Muslim members - it shows a kind and tolerant spirit.

Peace

 

[Muezzin]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Er.. What was the topic of this thread again?

 

[czgibson]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Hi Muezzin,

Sorry I've gone a bit off-topic there, but I think it's still (tenuously) related to the original question....

Peace

 

[Muezzin]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Peace Czgibson,

I wasn't referring to you in particular, rather this entire linguistic tangent. Hmm...

I believe the answer to the original question was given in the second post.

 

[root]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

So we consider 3Washy small print:

and a liar who lies agains Allah and His messenger is considered a "Kafir" i.e. a "Disbeliever"

then we see:

The word nigger by definition is derogatory and offensive. The word Kaafir however can have different connotations depending on the way it is used. In a religion sense it means non-muslim but people sometimes adapt it's meaning to be a form of name-calling

then finally:

The word "nigger" has a straightforward root in the Latin word "niger", meaning "black". It originated as a purely descriptive term (as in the name of the country Nigeria), but has relatively recently become used as a term of abuse. So here again it seems that the definition of the word itself is not insulting, but its use can be.

Is the word "Infidel" justifiable, if the word "Kaafir" is............

Afterall, "Kaafir" is racially aggrovating just like calling someone an Infidel.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Also, again this site reffered to me as a Kaafirs, Getting tired of that racist remark.

What makes 'kaafir' a racist remark? Which 'race' is it discriminating against? What is the difference between 'kaafir' and 'non-muslim'?

 

[- Qatada -]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Thats kinda funi cz the definition for the word infidel is " One who has no religious beliefs."

source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=infidel

 

[Ra`eesah]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Greetings everyone,
We've got some linguistic analysis creeping into the thread - I work with the English language in my job, so I hope you don't mind if I chip in here.


I can say I still have some doubts, as the word seems to have European roots. Have a look at this etymology of "cover", from Dictionary.com:

[Middle English coveren, from Old French covrir, from Latin cooperre, to cover completely : co-, intensive pref.; see co- + operre, to cover; see wer-4 in Indo-European Roots.]

Was the word "kafir" around before Latin? (Not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know.)

The word "nigger" has a straightforward root in the Latin word "niger", meaning "black". It originated as a purely descriptive term (as in the name of the country Nigeria), but has relatively recently become used as a term of abuse. So here again it seems that the definition of the word itself is not insulting, but its use can be.

3washey, thanks for the message to non-Muslim members - it shows a kind and tolerant spirit.

Peace

753 BC was the traditional date of the founding of the city of Rome by Romulus. At this stage, Latin is the language spoken by several thousand people in and near Rome. However latin became a literary language in the 6th 7th century BC.

The word Kfar ( The Village) exsists in the hebrew language,

1. Hebrew existest long before Latin - approximately 3500 B.C.

2. Hebrew and Arabic are Semitic languages ( therefore if Kfar means Village in Hebrew, then we can alsoaccept that Kafir in Arabic means Farmer)




from this chart we can conculed that the word COVER ( the 8th word on the chart) originated from the Hebrew language and later on adopted by latin.

Was the word "kafir" around before Latin? (Not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know.)

So the answer is- Yes Kafir DiD exsist before latin.

 

[czgibson]

Re: Surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Hello 3washey,

Excellent work - you've proven me wrong conclusively.

There's just one thing I'm not sure about - did the Hebrew word caphar mean "village" and "cover"? You say it meant village, and the chart you show says it meant cover - did one meaning somehow come out of the other over time?

Fascinating discussion - many, many thanks for your efforts. (I love being proven wrong!)

Peace

 

[Ra`eesah]

Re: Surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Im assuming so because if u look and see now there will be some places where they will say that the word "kfar is Hebrew for "Village" either it has different meanings to that one word or like you said

one meaning somehow come out of the other over time

 

[searchingsoul]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Thats kinda funi cz the definition for the word infidel is " One who has no religious beliefs."

source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=infidel

That's interesting. I always thought infidel was used to describe a non muslim. I keep learning!

 

[czgibson]

Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims ali

Greetings,

That's interesting. I always thought infidel was used to describe a non muslim. I keep learning!

It is sometimes used in that sense, but it can be used for anyone who doesn't believe in your particular god, doctrine or ideology. Literally it refers to someone who is 'without faith', from the Latin in- (= not) and fides (= faith).

Peace

 

[Sabi]

Re: Surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike

Since Atheism in contrast to agnosticism is a belief system I wonder if there is a more appropriate word than infidel to apply to atheists.

:?

How about Malfidel?

:brother: