Verse 11 Surah 41.

[BleroX]

Assalamu Alykum.

41.11 Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."

We notice that Allah tells us that the universe had been as smoke (Alright,has been prouved by science).
But the problem is not here. We understand that Allah spoke to the Earth when the uiverse was as smoke. Now, we know Earth did not exisit when the universe was smoke.

Some light please.

 

[------]

:salamext:

Can u ask ur question in simple english??

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

the ayaah sounds like its saying that the smoke was before the earth, and the earth after the smoke.



Assalamu Alaikum


ask a scholar !

 

[------]

:salamext:

Some Details of the Creation of this Universe Here - Ibn Kathir Tafsir

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:salamext:

Can u ask ur question in simple english??

as far as i get it, hes just asking how did allah speak to the earth, when it was still smoke. i.e there was no earth yet. am i making sense, or have i confused you even more lol

 

[Isambard]

Thats a good question...

 

[BleroX]

Sorry for my English.

When the universe was smoke, there was no Earth ... so I don't understand.

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


We know that when a nebula (in Latin it means mist or something smokey [dukh means smoke in arabic]) is formed - through it, stars are formed, and so are planets.


So why couldn't it be that Allah emphasised on the earth to show us that the earth was also formed through these nebulae? (plural of nebula) From which the heavens and other planets were formed. Maybe to give us an explanation that the Earth was also formed through this.


Allah knows best.



I hope this is useful, it just shows the basic big bang belief with verses from Qur'an, and it doesn't go into depth so you might be interested:

http://dawahtips.blogspot.com/2008/01/big-bang-islamic-perspective.html


I just quickly writ it up, and i hope it benefits insha Allah.

 

[sur]

Assalamu Alykum.

41.11 Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it(Sky) and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."

We notice that Allah tells us that the universe had been as smoke (Alright,has been prouved by science).
But the problem is not here. We understand that Allah spoke to the Earth when the uiverse was as smoke. Now, we know Earth did not exisit when the universe was smoke.

Some light please.

Allah ordered the Earth & The Sky to come into existance from that smoke.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Allah ordered the Earth & The Sky to come into existance from that smoke.

Sky had existed (in the form of smoke..) before he ordered it and the earth to come together.

41.11 Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it(Sky) and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."

 

[sur]

Sky had existed (in the form of smoke..) before he ordered it and the earth to come together.

41.11 Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it(Sky) and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."

like u existed in form of sperm & ovum.
then "U" were formed out of them.
But sperm & Ova were NOT "U".
So i say "U" were "comprehended" when "U" were still a sperm & ovum.


Similarly Sky(like "U") was "Comprehended" when the thing it was to be fromed from, was smog(like sperm & ovum). Then order was issued that sky & earh be formed from smog.(Like "U" to be formed from sperm & ovum)

 

[Whatsthepoint]

like u existed in form of sperm & ovum.
then "U" were formed out of them.
But sperm & Ova were NOT "U".
So i say "U" were "comprehended" when "U" were still a sperm & ovum.


Similarly Sky(like "U") was "Comprehended" when the thing it was to be fromed from, was smog(like sperm & ovum). Then order was issued that sky & earh be formed from smog.(Like "U" to be formed from sperm & ovum)

The verse speaks of skies from the beginning..

 

[جوري]

(11) And [Whenever the particle thumma is used, as in the above instance, to link parallel statements – i.e., statements not necessarily indicating a sequence in time - it has the function of a simple conjunction, and may be rendered as “and”.] He [it is who] applied His design to the skies, which were [yet but] smoke; [I.e., a gas - evidently hydrogen gas, which physicists regard as the primal element from which all material particles of the universe have evolved and still evolve. For the meaning of the term sama (“sky” or “skies” or “heaven”) in its cosmic connotation, see note on 2: 29.] and He [it is who] said to them and to the earth, “Come [into being], both of you, willingly or unwillingly!” - to which both responded, “We do come in obedience.” [Explaining this passage, Zamakhshari observes: “The meaning of God’s command to the skies and the earth to ‘come’, and their submission [to His command] is this: He willed their coming into being, and so they came to be as He willed them to be and this is the kind of metaphor (majaz) which is called ‘allegory’ (tamthil). Thus, the purport [of this passage] is but an illustration (taswir) of the effect of His almighty power on all that is willed [by Him], and nothing else.” (It is obvious that Zamakhshari’s reasoning is based on the oft-repeated Quranic statement, “When God wills a thing to be, He but says unto it, ‘Be’ - and it is.”) Concluding his interpretation of the above passage, Zamakhshari adds: “If I am asked about the meaning of [the words] ‘willingly or unwillingly’, I say that it is a figurative expression (mathal) indicating that His almighty will must inevitably take effect.”] (12) And He [it is who] decreed that they become seven heavens * in two aeons, and imparted unto each heaven its function. [*I.e., a multiplicity of cosmic systems (cf. note on

abridged version from http://www.amazon.com/Message-Quran...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202330046&sr=8-1

 

[truemuslim]

^ jazakallah

 

[Whatsthepoint]

(11) And [Whenever the particle thumma is used, as in the above instance, to link parallel statements – i.e., statements not necessarily indicating a sequence in time - it has the function of a simple conjunction, and may be rendered as “and”.] He [it is who] applied His design to the skies, which were [yet but] smoke; [I.e., a gas - evidently hydrogen gas, which physicists regard as the primal element from which all material particles of the universe have evolved and still evolve. For the meaning of the term sama (“sky” or “skies” or “heaven”) in its cosmic connotation, see note on 2: 29.] and He [it is who] said to them and to the earth, “Come [into being], both of you, willingly or unwillingly!” - to which both responded, “We do come in obedience.” [Explaining this passage, Zamakhshari observes: “The meaning of God’s command to the skies and the earth to ‘come’, and their submission [to His command] is this: He willed their coming into being, and so they came to be as He willed them to be and this is the kind of metaphor (majaz) which is called ‘allegory’ (tamthil). Thus, the purport [of this passage] is but an illustration (taswir) of the effect of His almighty power on all that is willed [by Him], and nothing else.” (It is obvious that Zamakhshari’s reasoning is based on the oft-repeated Quranic statement, “When God wills a thing to be, He but says unto it, ‘Be’ - and it is.”) Concluding his interpretation of the above passage, Zamakhshari adds: “If I am asked about the meaning of [the words] ‘willingly or unwillingly’, I say that it is a figurative expression (mathal) indicating that His almighty will must inevitably take effect.”] (12) And He [it is who] decreed that they become seven heavens * in two aeons, and imparted unto each heaven its function. [*I.e., a multiplicity of cosmic systems (cf. note on

abridged version from http://www.amazon.com/Message-Quran...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202330046&sr=8-1

I don't think this explains the original question...
The verses seems to imply the skies (or its cosmic connotation) and the earth came to being simoultaniously..

 

[جوري]

this is the explanation of verse 11, abridged.. you are certainly welcome to render to it the meaning of your choosing, but again, this falls on the shoulders of the word 'thouma', instead of the word 'wa' as is used in the verses..
one to predicate 'then' the other 'and'..

peace

 

[Whatsthepoint]

this is the explanation of verse 11, abridged.. you are certainly welcome to render to it the meaning of your choosing, but again, this falls on the shoulders of the word 'thouma', instead of the word 'wa' as is used in the verses..
one to predicate 'then' the other 'and'..

peace

41.11 Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it(Sky) and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."

Does "it" denote the same sky as in the beginning of the verse, the sky that had been smoke, the sky that muslims claim to be the universe?
If not, how is the disctincion made?

 

[جوري]

sama or samwat (plural) has many meanings..
could denote sky, can also denote lower heaven
we don't have the pronoun 'it' in Arabic... objects, people, things are rendered a gender..

other than that I am not sure what the question is? seems quite clear in Weiss's translation and commentary?

peace

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

The statement of the existence of a gaseous mass with fine particles, for this is how the word 'smoke' (dukan in Arabic) is to be interpreted. Smoke is generally made up of a gaseous substratum, plus, in more or less stable suspension, fine particles that may belong to solid and even liquid states of matter at high or low temperature.

The reference to a separation process (fatq) of an primary single mass whose elements were initially fused together (ratq). It must be noted that in Arabic 'fatq' is the action of breaking, diffusing, separating, and that 'ratq' is the action of fusing or binding together elements to make a homogenous whole.


Allah Hafiz
Sister Fatima

 

[Whatsthepoint]

sama or samwat (plural) has many meanings..
could denote sky, can also denote lower heaven
we don't have the pronoun 'it' in Arabic... objects, people, things are rendered a gender..

other than that I am not sure what the question is? seems quite clear in Weiss's translation and commentary?

peace

(11) And [Whenever the particle thumma is used, as in the above instance, to link parallel statements – i.e., statements not necessarily indicating a sequence in time - it has the function of a simple conjunction, and may be rendered as “and”.] He [it is who] applied His design to the skies, which were [yet but] smoke; [I.e., a gas - evidently hydrogen gas, which physicists regard as the primal element from which all material particles of the universe have evolved and still evolve. For the meaning of the term sama (“sky” or “skies” or “heaven”) in its cosmic connotation, see note on 2: 29.] and He [it is who] said to them and to the earth, “Come [into being], both of you, willingly or unwillingly!” - to which both responded, “We do come in obedience.” [Explaining this passage, Zamakhshari observes: “The meaning of God’s command to the skies and the earth to ‘come’, and their submission [to His command] is this: He willed their coming into being, and so they came to be as He willed them to be and this is the kind of metaphor (majaz) which is called ‘allegory’ (tamthil). Thus, the purport [of this passage] is but an illustration (taswir) of the effect of His almighty power on all that is willed [by Him], and nothing else.” (It is obvious that Zamakhshari’s reasoning is based on the oft-repeated Quranic statement, “When God wills a thing to be, He but says unto it, ‘Be’ - and it is.”) Concluding his interpretation of the above passage, Zamakhshari adds: “If I am asked about the meaning of [the words] ‘willingly or unwillingly’, I say that it is a figurative expression (mathal) indicating that His almighty will must inevitably take effect.”] (12) And He [it is who] decreed that they become seven heavens * in two aeons, and imparted unto each heaven its function. [*I.e., a multiplicity of cosmic systems (cf. note on

It says he applied his design to the skies.
I've just noticed the Earth had already been creted at that point...(or at the same time (thumma thingy))
Then he told the earth and the skies (which I think are the same as those at the ebgining of the verse, Weiss doesn't say otherwise...) to come together or come into existence (which seems absurd as the earth had been already there...)
Muslims claim the smoky sky denotes universe (miracle stuff), which seems to be impossible, seeing that the earth has been created before or simoultanisouly...