Views On Muslim Grooming Gangs and Paedophiles

[hisnameiszzz]

It is not unique to Islam. Many Catholic priests were charged of pedophilia a few years ago. More people are using religion as a shield for their perversion each day all over the world. Why dont you ask that Imam that why he is befriending with such a guy?

You are completely right there but the head Imam is the only Imam I genuinely have any respect for. I don't want to have my bubble burst if he says "Oh I knew all about it all along".

I have no issues with the Imam befriending anyone. However, when both the men who used to give Adhaan are locked up for the same offence and both are on very good terms with the Imam even after serving sentences each, it does make your mind wonder doesn't it. Well it did mine. But then I might just be disturbed.

A question for you, sister.

Do you have the same opinion about an Imaam befriending homosexuals? Should he, too, not let it be known to the public, as you suggest with the paedophile? And if you say no, then why not?

Was-Salaam.

I'll answer on behalf of th
e sister.


Homosexuals are not allowed in the Muslim community. If someone comes out, that's it, they have to pack their bags and leave. Families beat them up, the locals beat them up. I work with vulnerable young adults, I have seen this. People have had to move from London to the Midlands to get away from their family/community. I highly doubt an Imam would strike up a friendship with someone who had officially come out. The person would not be in the community any longer. There was a programme on the BBC website about Islam and homosexuality. Imams were condemning it saying it was completely wrong. Anyway, that's completely different.

muslim men have got to become men again..like the sahabah r.a..

not cultural,or tribal,or political and begging for popularity and recognition

speak the truth and do the right thing even if it is against your ownself,family or community

we ally with truth and justice...inshallah

In an ideal world, yes, but this is real life.

You are from Dewsbury. Have a look at the Dewsbury Reporter tomorrow and you might know what I am talking about re: the grooming gangs. Look at the surname of the 2 main culprits. I was asked by a colleague today - "isn't that name you are called when you have been to Mecca?". hewhewhew

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

Why would anyone beat the sex offender up? He was grooming white girls. The area I live in is 99.99% not white. It was in all the local newspapers and no one did a thing! His loving wife too him back too. He even worked in the local corner shop, lol.

And that is the crux of the problem. Islam takes a backseat and culture takes a front seat. I'm sad to say that many seem to only want to stand up for justice when it's against what they perceive as their own ethnicity or race or culture and not the "other." And that is probably because these girls due to their white skin are perceived as the "other", not generally worthy of the consideration or time to get worked over because they're not their own girls. Even though Islam forbids racism, Muslims due to their cultural mindsets are many times both racist and ethnocentric. If Muslims don't stand up for injustices perpetrated against non-Muslims, then Muslims should not expect non-Muslims to stand up for injustices against them either. When Muslims let others in their community get away with wrongdoing of which they are aware, then they become complicit in the wrongdoing and are wrongdoers themselves. Muslims should then not complain about Islamophobic articles in tabloids that come about "Muslim" grooming gangs. In effect, what happens is that Muslims' wide inaction actually contributes to the problem spreading and then comes back as the fruit of their own wrongdoing in the form of demonization of Muslims and Islam in the media to which they then object. Would this happen if Muslims actually, truly, and really listened to the advice in the Quran (4:135) and did what it tells us to do?

O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah , even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.

So, just for next time, I'd ask Muslims here and elsewhere to stand up for minorities wherever they are within their communities or elsewhere and stand up against any perceived injustice anywhere. You owe it to God to do so.

I live in a community where people getting locked up for fraud / drugs are classed as heroes, where people are blind when they are in town and outside, but miraculously get their sight back in the Mosque. In an ideal world, where Islam (the one I learnt about from kitaabs such as Hadhrat Umar/Abu Bakar/Deen KeBatey) was prevalent, then yeah, this guy would not show his face here again.

Yes, well, that is why I always tell new Muslims that they should understand that while Islam is perfect the Muslim communities globally are imperfect. Please, brother, do not take reprehensible behaviors of Muslims as representative of what they should be doing as Muslims. And I agree with you that there's a disconnect between what Islam teaches and asks us as Muslims to do and what Muslims generally accept as things to do from points of view born from their culture. I know you've said that you have a crisis of faith, but others don't know that and so you yourself can take the lead in these matters; don't expect others to do so. Since you feel strongly enough about this matter as you've shown here on this thread, take the lead and create a hullabaloo in the mosque to get this type of thing to be communicated as unacceptable from the pulpit on Fridays. Pass out flyers about why turning a blind eye to wrongdoing is wrong from the Quran and ahadith (prophetic traditions). Don't leave it to others to do; do your own part. Others in seeing you do so may then themselves get the courage or if previously apathetic may become awakened to the wrongness of this and also then contribute their voices and efforts to eradicate this type of injustice. But it has to start with you, remember.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

 

[Born_Believer]

OK! So I hold my hands up, the title was wrong of me but I was a bit worked up last night. Apologies in advance. But on the same token, I am not defending athiests/catholics/jews/hindus at work, so to be quite frank, why should I mention them. I used to identify myself as Muslim (I'm in limbo currently). My colleagues ask me about Islam (I don't go advertising I am having a crisis with my faith to the whole world). As I have explained, I work with vulnerable young adults and 99% of the time, the groomers/sex attackers are Muslims, so I get asked why and if Islam condones it. It gets a bit tiring after a while saying the same thing over and over again. Don't get me wrong, I am sure there are others too but the ones that come up are always Muslims. I get asked about Islam and Muslims, so that is why I mentioned them specifically in the title. I'm not an Islam basher, I don't have time for that.



In the UK, organisations have the CRB / DBS check. Before someone can work for an organisation that deals with vulnerable young people or adults (or anyone these days to be honest), they have to apply for the check. It is the organisations' responsibility to have these checks done. So if a sex offender wanted to work in a nursery, the school would have the checks done and the sex offender would get told no. I'm not sure how parents would do these checks. Would you expect the name of each and every single person that had access to the school, so the parents could check on some kind of database somewhere? I'm confused.

My point is the beast was in the newspapers before he was sent to jail. When he came out, he might have been a changed man, but surely the committee should have politely said come to the Mosque but please don't give Adhaan or am I just being ridiculous there? I say this because the Mosque and Madrassah are adjoined by a door and anyone can go from the Mosque to the Madrassah at anytime. There are no CCTV cameras. Surely, it's a bit risky right?


That's strange in the US. If someone genuinely made a mistake and was classed as a sex offender, all their neighbours would know about it? Crikey! In the UK, there is the sex offender register and the authorities know, but the person is not advertised to neighbours. For sure, they would not be rehoused near a school and they would have to go into a probation centre where they would be taught about what they should tell to others and whom they can have relationships with, e.g. if someone has a young child, they can't be in a relationship with them if they have attacked kids in the past.



It's important to me because I have a Muslim name and people at work relate to me as being a Muslim. They ask questions. "Oh another Muslim sex offender, I thought you said it was against Islam?". It gets a bit boring after repeating the same thing again and again. I mentioned Muslim to garner views of people on here. Sorry to have upset you.

Nothing will ever be said about Jimmy Saville, the Queen knighted him didn't she. Most of the other paedophiles were knighted too. You do the math!

Your last sentence hits it on the head. I used to follow Islam completely, but I am completely baffled by it now. All the kitaabs I prayed as a child seem to completely be the opposite of what happens in real life. But let's not go there shall we. Oh and thank you to UMM ABED and AISHA for being two genuine sisters in Islam who have kept in touch and tried to keep me sane. I do appreciate it.



Why would anyone beat the sex offender up? He was grooming white girls. The area I live in is 99.99% not white. It was in all the local newspapers and no one did a thing! His loving wife too him back too. He even worked in the local corner shop, lol.

I live in a community where people getting locked up for fraud / drugs are classed as heroes, where people are blind when they are in town and outside, but miraculously get their sight back in the Mosque. In an ideal world, where Islam (the one I learnt about from kitaabs such as Hadhrat Umar/Abu Bakar/Deen KeBatey) was prevalent, then yeah, this guy would not show his face here again.

Sex offenders do NOT get any identities. If that was the case, quite a lot of the people in Rochdale would have new names. Maybe one or two really high profile sex offenders might get new identities.

If your co-workers are asking you about muslim sex offenders, why don't you ask them to take ownership of every single white/christian/atheist sex offender? They do make up over 80% of the prison population in there for sexual offences. How about asking them to explain Jimmy Saville, quite possibly the most vile and large scale sex offender in human history. Grow a spine man.

And I know for a fact that in Britain certain sex offenders are helped with new identities, many of whom are also moved into new areas. There was a hacking leak just a couple years back with the new names and identities of sex offenders.

You seem to have an awfully low level of care or respect for your own community and seemingly insinuate something like this would not happen in a white area?

 

[*charisma*]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)



I differ with sis @*charisma* on the issue because I believe the primary responsibility to vet people in positions of authority are the committee and board members; parents are not exempt from responsibility, but it is easy to see why parents would believe that the mosques have their business in order and would not allow any sexual offenders to be in positions of power or authority over any vulnerable children. Let's please not become akin to the Catholic Church; and let's stand up for justice, even if it is against specific individuals from within our Muslim brethren because we do not do them any services when we allow them to continue perpetrating injustices in any garb, whether that of an ordinary person or of an Imam.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

As I previously said, both are responsible for the safety of the children, but sexual predators are NOT limited to only one place. They are everywhere. Some can even be relatives. In this particular situation, there is a lot of information missing, and I'd even call it more of a rant. The brother has made the statement that everyone knew about this person's past in which case, why would the parents not stand against it? Why didn't the mosque hire someone else? Sometimes there are incompetent people in power and it takes a community's effort to make the changes. So why were changes not made sooner? We can walk in circles around this, but since brother [MENTION=36212]hisnameiszzz[/MENTION] works with victims and knows those who were affiliated with this person then he can go and ask directly. Otherwise in Islam it's very clear that these types of actions are haraam. There should be no such thing as giving someone like this a second chance in an environment that is considered a fitnah for him. But whether you agree or not, safety begins in the household eg. mother teaches her daughter not to go anywhere alone with men, or allow any man outside of the home touch her, be it in an "islamic" environment or other. In the end really, the only person we can put the blame on 100% is the victimizer.

 

[hisnameiszzz]

If your co-workers are asking you about muslim sex offenders, why don't you ask them to take ownership of every single white/christian/atheist sex offender? They do make up over 80% of the prison population in there for sexual offences. How about asking them to explain Jimmy Saville, quite possibly the most vile and large scale sex offender in human history. Grow a spine man?

Why would I want to ask about Saville? I'm talking about my area of concern where I work. If the young adults were being abused by him I would mention it.

Why do you want me to deploy question upon question tactics? They ask me about the religion of the perpetrators in our immediate area, why would I want to ask a question about something unrelated?

Grow a brain man!

 

[Born_Believer]

Why would I want to ask about Saville? I'm talking about my area of concern where I work. If the young adults were being abused by him I would mention it.

Why do you want me to deploy question upon question tactics? They ask me about the religion of the perpetrators in our immediate area, why would I want to ask a question about something unrelated?

Grow a brain man!

You would ask those questions because they are asking you and holding the whole Muslim community hostage to the actions of an individual. You have every right to ask them too. Why is it that when a muslim, or someone purporting to be a muslim, carries out a crime, the whole community has to answer for it? Stop being an apologist and start countering stupid arguments. Don't blame the entire muslim community just because you cant stand up to the people you work for.

I would never stand for that line of questioning.

And you still haven't responded to a number of other things I posed so I'm out. I never like discussing things that go round and round without any progress.

 

[hisnameiszzz]

Search and Charisma your posts make a lot of sense to me. The sex attackers are wrong but the parents also need to keep tabs on their children like where did the new perfumes and new presents come from.

As one of the posters said indirectly, I don't think I understand Islam that well so I can't spearhead any new campaigns at the Mosque. That poster makes me feel like I am talking rubbish so I would probably be better off keeping my trap shut. If I get asked at work, I'll just say I don't know, ask someone who understands Islam.

As the second Imam at my Mosque regularly says Muslims are always being looked at so we should show them what Islam is really like. It's a shame his flock don't follow his words because they make sense. As Ahmed said, if Muslims acted like real Muslims, life would be so much better and no one would be able to point any fingers. But such is life I guess.

Part of me wishes I hadn't bothered doing this topic last night. It just really bothered me seen as my little nephews go to that Madrassah. I'm not saying the sex offender attacked anyone but it could have happened and that risk should not be there. That was my main concern.

I know I have probably upset a few people and for that I can only apologise.

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

I honestly don't think you have done or said anything for which you need apologize (well, maybe the thread heading title but that's too understandable if seen from your point of view or leastways I think so).

On the contrary, brother, I think you understand Islam very well; I might have been a member since 2015, but I do recall reading some of your posts even when I was a lurker on IB and not a member. I do think your neighbors are the main culprit for your iman (faith) suffering, especially as you see that suffering also written on your family's faces day in and day out daily. So, no, I think you do have a lot of knowledge of Islam, even if your iman (faith) is low and faith in crisis due to what you perceive as unanswered prayers; I just think you're tired of seeing the disparity between what Islam requires of Muslims and Muslims acting differently than what Islam teaches us. I think your frustrations are understandable and in some way or the other probably shared by other people; I myself feel that way when I read any news about terrorists engaging in mass killing and then their religion being obviously Islam. We have frustrating realities that we're facing in the modern day; these realities are now part of the fabric of our everyday lives and you sharing that frustration on IB is appreciated; oh, I'm sure some do not appreciate you bringing up this topic at all because this topic doesn't make us feel good, but I cannot tell you how much important I consider these discussions to be. Because believe you me, if we do not discuss these things, you can be sure non-Muslims elsewhere will be discussing these things and not having any qualms about making any direct link between Islam and the reprehensible behavior of Muslims. You're actually doing us a favor in my point of view, even though I know it doesn't appear to some people that way right now.

Also, I do not accept your excuse of you being made to feel a certain way to keep to the same-old behavior of ignoring what is blatantly wrong; you need to stand up and speak out. It won't be convenient and you certainly won't be liked for doing so, but I'd and many other Muslims would appreciate you not fearing the blame of the blamers and instead doing so for the sake of Allah. On Judgment Day, we're all going to be standing naked and without any excuses for us not standing for justice; surely, you can understand then that you do not have the luxury of sitting before the computer screen in clothes and then turning away from doing what is right when you have in your ability the power to make a difference.

What if Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. and other great men had thought to make excuses thinking that other better men would take the lead? I suppose we'd then have a different world. Any difference must always start with you, not others; do not shift the responsibility of so doing to others. The answer is first you and then you can look as a second source to others.

Search and Charisma your posts make a lot of sense to me. The sex attackers are wrong but the parents also need to keep tabs on their children like where did the new perfumes and new presents come from.

As one of the posters said indirectly, I don't think I understand Islam that well so I can't spearhead any new campaigns at the Mosque. That poster makes me feel like I am talking rubbish so I would probably be better off keeping my trap shut. If I get asked at work, I'll just say I don't know, ask someone who understands Islam.

As the second Imam at my Mosque regularly says Muslims are always being looked at so we should show them what Islam is really like. It's a shame his flock don't follow his words because they make sense. As Ahmed said, if Muslims acted like real Muslims, life would be so much better and no one would be able to point any fingers. But such is life I guess.

Part of me wishes I hadn't bothered doing this topic last night. It just really bothered me seen as my little nephews go to that Madrassah. I'm not saying the sex offender attacked anyone but it could have happened and that risk should not be there. That was my main concern.

I know I have probably upset a few people and for that I can only apologise.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

 

[*charisma*]

You don't have to know everything about Islam to be able to speak up against something that is wrong in your community. You could potentially save a person's life. Being sexually victimized is not something that when it happens in childhood stays in childhood; It victimizes the person's youth and adulthood as well. Secondly, in your line of work, your coworkers should be aware that this problem exists everywhere and victimizers come from a variety of different belief systems. The fact that they don't know this, or rather that they profile one group of people and ask you about it as if you are their representer is sad and makes me think they are a bit inept at their job. Lastly, since this is just a rant I'll close this thread to prevent it from going in circles. The solution of the problem lies in the efforts of the people who are willing to speak up or do something in the community. If anyone ever sees or knows about a child being maltreated or abused in anyway, they need to report it. Common sense goes a long way in these types of situations.

:threadclo