What makes a Muslim, Shahada or Salaah?

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

I get confused with this because I know that if a Muslim that doesn't pray willingly he's considered a kaafir, but then what about the shahada?

I tried to advise someone about salah and told him that a muslim who doesn't pray is considered a kaafir, and he got really offended :x I didn't mean to offend him or relate him to a kaafir, but that's how he took it...he said the shahada is what makes them a Muslim..but how much is the shahada's weight compared to salaah?

 

[distressed]

Salaam

Its not as simple as that, if a muslim doesnt pray cos he doesnt belive its necessary, or not part of islam is known as a kaafir, but one who doesnt pray out of laziness...isnt, thats the way i see, it, and have been told. I dont pray, and i would be highly offended, if some1 called me a kaafir, i dont blame your friend. no1 has the right to call any1 a kaafir.

doesnt a muslim calling another person a kaafir, get taken out of the fold of islam themselves ? not sure if theres any truth on that.

D

 

[Alpha Dude]

Its not as simple as that, if a muslim doesnt pray cos he doesnt belive its necessary, or not part of islam is known as a kaafir, but one who doesnt pray out of laziness...isnt
D

This is correct. According to the majority of ulema, such a person would be considered fasiq, not kaafir.

 

[serena77]

i'm sorry... please forgive my ignorance but what is fasiq....
Serena

 

[Alpha Dude]

Serena, a faasiq is an open sinner/corrupt person.

Not necessarily directed at the OP, but just to add, it would be better if you used the mentioned hadith in the following manner, if you were advising someone:

Prophet Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam has said words to the effect: "the dividing line between kufr and iman is salah". This highlights the importance of salah. It's a very very grave matter and one that we cannot afford to take lightly. So inshaAllah, let's make effort.

Vs

Haram!!! You're a kaafir cos you don't pray!!! La howla wala quwata! Inna Lillahi wa innah ilahi ra'jioon. Repent!! Astaghfirullah.

The latter approach is not likely to work on anyone.

 

[serena77]

thank you brother ...
sounds like the old.. you get more flies w/ honey then w/ vinegar?

Salaam
Serena

 

[جوري]

but one who doesnt pray out of laziness.

yes that is what we would call a fasiq not a kaffir.. not a good thing either but hey.. many of us where there once..

 

[جوري]

Serena, a faasiq is an open sinner/corrupt person.

ha you beat me to it :lol: I guess I should read all the posts before I myself post..

Jazaka Allah

 

[marwen]

^^ I agree with these answers above.

If I may only add something on the importance of shahada. Shahada is not just some words to say. it's a commitment, and we should be aware of its meaning and its implications/conditions.

There should not be a separation between Shahada and Ibadat (acts of worship).

Shahada is a kind of contract, it implies that you do worship (prayer, zakat, fasting, hajj : the pillars of islam).

Saying Shahada means you believe in Allah, the only one God, and that Muhammad (PBUH) is His messenger : Muhammad(PBUH) is a messenger of Allah means that Muhammad(PBUH) is carrying a message from Allah : Quran+Sunnah. This means : you accept this message from Allah (through his messenger) and you follow the instructions in this message, like the ibadat (prayer, etc.) and the islamic faith (creed).

Making only Shahada and intentionally* neglecting one of / or all the other pillars of islam (prayer, zakat, fasting, hajj) has only 2 explanations :
1) The person believes he must do them but he neglected them because of laziness or delinquency, in this case he's still considered a muslim, but he's considered 'fasiq' (a delinquent muslim /not sure of the right translation of 'fasiq').
2) The person don't believe we should do prayer or zakat, etc. This means he didn't understand/accept the meaning/terms of Shahada. Therefore he's considered a kaffir.

* : We're only talking about intentionally neglecting prayer or any other pillar of islam while we're able to do it. We're not talking about muslims who are not able to do an act of worship (fasting, prayer, ..) because of forgetfulness, sickness, lack of knowledge etc.

 

[distressed]

a faasiq is an open sinner/corrupt person.

corrupt ? just cos a person doesnt pray, doesnt automatically make them a corrupt person, that can mean loads of different things, they are disobedient to the faith, and sinning, your right, but hardly corrupt.

 

[Alpha Dude]

Good post Marwen, totally agree.

corrupt ? just cos a person doesnt pray, doesnt automatically make them a corrupt person, that can mean loads of different things, they are disobedient to the faith, and sinning, your right, but hardly corrupt.

Kindly appreciate that I was trying to give a definition of the Arabic word 'faasiq', not necessarily trying to say one who does not pray salah is 'corrupt' in and of itself.

Faasiq is a term applied to those people who indulge in sin (could be any sin, not just missing salah). I translated that word to mean 'corrupt'. My translation could be wrong.

However, I see no problem in calling a sinner as 'corrupt'. Anyone on the wrong path/not trying, is corrupt. This doesn't mean I am being judgemental, I wish them to see the light but you have to see them for what they are through the lens of sharia.

So, in the eyes of sharia:

corrupt person = one who indulges in sin without striving or trying (whilst accepting that he is sinning, so he wouldn't be considered a kaafir)

uncorrupt person = one who is striving and trying his level best (whilst may still fall into sin, he will immediately repent)

 

[serena77]

is it common .... or more likely that a new muslim is more often to forget all the prayers.... i mean being catholic..... its ( rough example... ) but.... forgetting some of the lower feast days.... is more common until you get used to .. again for lack of better words ... how things work....
Does that make them a sinner.. when they are trying when it is their intent to make every prayer but on occasion.. time does get away from them.

Serena

 

[جوري]

Kindly appreciate that I was trying to give a definition of the Arabic word 'faasiq', not necessarily trying to say one who does not pray salah is 'corrupt' in and of itself.

here is the definition:

فاسق = n . fornicator, philanderer, Don Juan, libertine, miscreant, scab

adj. dissolute, dissipated, debauched, profligate, wanton, degraded, licentious, lecherous, lewd, lascivious, rakish, raffish, immoral, unchaste, uninhibited, bawdy, obscene, punk, scarlet, light, lubricious, slippery

http://translation.babylon.com/arabic/to-english/

 

[Alpha Dude]

adj. dissolute, dissipated, debauched, profligate, wanton, degraded, licentious, lecherous, lewd, lascivious, rakish, raffish, immoral, unchaste, uninhibited, bawdy, obscene, punk, scarlet, light, lubricious, slippery

Looks like the definition of corrupt to me.

 

[distressed]

However, I see no problem in calling a sinner as 'corrupt'. Anyone on the wrong path/not trying, is corrupt. This doesn't mean I am being judgemental, I wish them to see the light but you have to see them for what they are through the lens of sharia

i find it offensive. being lazy, yeh but hardly corrupt. you dont see no problem in it, cos your on the right path, therefore its easy for you to say, to some1 else, like its easy for the OP to say to her friend hes a kaafir ? !!! & you are judging. !

 

[distressed]

فاسق = n . fornicator, philanderer, Don Juan, libertine, miscreant, scab adj. dissolute, dissipated, debauched, profligate, wanton, degraded, licentious, lecherous, lewd, lascivious, rakish, raffish, immoral, unchaste, uninhibited, bawdy, obscene, punk, scarlet, light, lubricious, slippery

I looked up the meaning for fasiq, got none of the above, and wanton actually refers to a **** ?

 

[جوري]

Looks like the definition of corrupt to me.

Yup...

i find it offensive. being lazy, yeh but hardly corrupt. you dont see no problem in it, cos your on the right path, therefore its easy for you to say, to some1 else, like its easy for the OP to say to her friend hes a kaafir ? !!! & you are judging. !

There are worse things in life than being offended, for instance being a sinner (I understand the need for political correctness) with all this globalization that is going on but in actuality one who neglects their duties is exactly that .. I have myself admitted that many of us were there (myself included) I have gone through the entirety of my teenage years not praying (astghfor Allah) and may Allah swt forgive me-- I was Muslim in name only and wanted nothing to do with Islam.. it is truly a gift to realize the error in ones ways.. I don't think however on my journey back that it was offense of the term 'fasiq' that swayed me one way or the other-- I always knew what it was, I just didn't care.. I don't think people who are remiss about their religion really care for the labels!

 

[جوري]

I looked up the meaning for fasiq, got none of the above, and wanton actually refers to a **** ?

a ***** amongst other things-yes! fasiq/fasid are pretty much of the same stock. Someone who is sinning, the gradation of sin isn't mentioned in the definition.. as in Islam we have cardinal sins and minor sins, but the term is a catchall!

 

[distressed]

it is truly a gift to realize the error in ones ways.. I don't think however on my journey back that it was offense of the term 'fasiq' that swayed me one way or the other-- I always knew what it was, I just didn't care.. I don't think people who are remiss about their religion really care for the labels!

ok, Good for you!

 

[جوري]

ok, Good for you!

Yup--Thanks!