It is nonsense in my opinion to say that Islam brought civilization or any of the things you mention as if they were new. If we take the middle east as the cradle of civilization then its history that we know about goes back 7000 years prior to Islam and as far as we know they were magnificent civilizations. Even if we look at the Greeks some 3000 years before Islam we see greatness and the writings they bequeathed to us probably added more to thought and logic than any other people on earth. If we exclude the purely Islamic historical things from the Qu'ran then everything else has been mentioned elsewhere long before 600 AD. I have already shown in my others posts that the brilliant observer and Islamic cleric, al-Tahtwai, thought so.
In the above list it is patently obvious that no one of them is true and easily demonstrable. For the purposes of this thread we can take any of them. But perhaps we can start with your 'free spirit of enquiry' and let us really see if that spirit is there or not. I will begin by saying Homer, Socrates, and Shakespeare have, perhaps, contributed more to the intellectual enlightenment of mankind than any other three writers and way beyond anything we find in the Qu'ran or Hadith.
Now can you even consider that idea - or will I get the usual stream of abuse?
Well actually it is nonsense to say that Islam did NOT bring the ideal standards of living, which would be accepted by all those among the humanity who do not discriminate and believe what is the Truth.... since i had mentioned that... all such ideals which i listed....
If we were to put the Ideals and Values in a list and see whether such would be accepted as the best norms for a civilized society in 21st century....
1. Equality, dignity and brotherhood of man.
2. Value of universal education with emphasis on spirit of free inquiry and importance of scientific knowledge.
3. Practice of religious tolerance.
4. Liberation of the woman and her spiritual equality with man.
5. Freedom from slavery and exploitation of all kinds.
6. Dignity of manual labor.
7. Integration of mankind in a feeling of oneness irrespective of their differences in race and color.
8. The devaluation of arrogance and pride based on superiority of race, color, wealth, etc and the founding of society on principle of Justice.
9. Rejection of the philosophy of asceticism.
Each one of these said above, are included in the Injunctions of Quran and they are practically shown in the Life of Prophet Muhammad (Saw)....
Now since you said that for example Greek Civilizations and many other had been already practicing these norms and if we were not to look in to Quran then these standards of excellence, were already there WITHOUT even providing any proof of your claim.... well since you also said to look in to things with
free spirit of inquiry and so i would use it and also teach you how to use it, for your point of view or way of inquiry is biased.... and you tend to ignore the facts, but whenever you will, i will tell you the Facts...
Lets try doing inquiry on one of the Standards listed above and see whether such Existed before Islam or after Islam ?
4. Liberation of the woman and her spiritual equality with man.
Lets see How the Greeks treated their Women, as you mentioned Greeks law or civilization was exemplary ,and What did Islam offer the Women when Islam came to Arabian Peninsula....?
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Women In Greek Civilization....
Women had very little influence, or power in Greek society and were not highly regarded until they could produce this child.[/FONT]
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Families did not always keep their new child. After a woman had a baby, she would show it to her husband. If the husband accepted it, it would live, but if he refused it, it would die.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Babies would often be rejected if they were illegitimate, unhealthy or deformed, the wrong sex (female for example), or too great a burden on the family. These babies would not be directly killed, but put in a clay pot or jar and deserted outside the front door or on the roadway.
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It was difficult for a woman to divorce her husband. Most divorces in ancient Greece were by the husband. If he chose to divorce her he would reject her in front of witnesses or merely send her back to her family home.
http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/ancientchix/
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But mythology also taught that through “woman” came “pains and evil,” similar to Eve in the Judeo-Christian tradition. For the Greeks it was Pandora, whose foolishness and misguided inquisitiveness introduced evil into the world. Aristotle wrote that “the female…is a deformed male.”
From the earliest days of Greek civilization, women were under the patriarchal authority of males. Segregated into strictly enforced domestic spheres, they passed from the male authority of the father to that of their husband. Not until the enlightened reforms of Solon could women inherit property from the father, and then only if there were no sons.
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The above Information on Women under Greek civilization should be sufficient for you to see whether the Women did have any rights according to the Greek Law, as the Quranic Law, Islam has to offer.... even though i can compare many other women issues , that how were they dealt in Greek Civilization and compare it with How women came to be treated under the Islamic Law in Arabia.... but i would just discuss for now the above mentioned treatment of Greek Women and compare it with What Islam came to offer....
Under Greek
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Under Greeks the Women ONLY had status if she could produce a Child.... means if she could not then her status is lowest of the low!
Under Islam
Men and Women are born equal...
Prophet Muhammad (Saw) said..."Whosoever has a daughter and he does not bury her alive, does not insult her, and does NOT favour his son over her, God will enter him into Paradise." (Ibn Hanbal Hadtih #1957)
Sons are NOT to be favored more than the girls in Islam, while the Articles above show the treatment of girl child VS a boy greek child...
Babies were Buried If the Husband did Not like them or family did not accept them.... In Greek Civilization...
What does Islam say about Burying Children alive ?
Despite the social acceptance of female infanticide among some Pre Islamic Arabian tribes, the Quran forbade this Custom, and considered it a crime like any other murder.
"And when the Female (infant) buried alive - is questioned, for what crime was she killed." (Quran 81:8-9)
Islam requires kind and just treatment for females equally as for males. Hugo think Greeks were better....
Babies Under Greeks....
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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Babies would often be rejected if they were illegitimate, unhealthy or deformed, the wrong sex (female for example), or too great a burden on the family. These babies would not be directly killed, but put in a clay pot or jar and deserted outside the front door or on the roadway.[/FONT]
What does Islam say about the Fear of Parents over the provision of the Children that sometimes parents have.....
(Al Quran15:19) As for the earth, We have stretched it out and have cast on it firm mountains, and have caused to grow in it everything well-measured.
(Al Quran 15:20) And We have provided sustenance for you on it and also for those of whom you are not the providers.
Islam strictly forbids leaving children or try getting rid of them, because it is He who will provide and increase ones Sustenance.
Women Divorce Rights in Greek Civilization....
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It was difficult for a woman to divorce her husband. Most divorces in ancient Greece were by the husband. If he chose to divorce her he would reject her in front of witnesses or merely send her back to her family home.[/FONT]
Women Divorce Rights Under Islamic Law....
Islam allows but discourages divorce. It encourages a reconciliation between husband and wife. It suggests involvement of family relatives, friends and elders, of both parties to sort out differences. Before Islam husband enjoyed unrestricted rights to divorce! The man's rights were restricted by Quran...
(65:1) O Prophet When you (intend to) divorce women, divorce them with a view to the wiating period appointed for them, and reckon the period (carefully) and be conscious of God , your Sustainer. Do NOT expel them from their homes; and niether shall they (be made to) leave unless they become openly guilty of immoral conduct.
These are the bounds set by God - and he who transgresses the bounds set by God does indeed sin against himself: (for O man, although) thou knowest not, after that God may well cause something new to come about.
Allah (Swt) strictly forbids any kind of ill treatment of ones wife and restricts the man's undue influence over his wife. Allah (Swt) rather wants the man to be patient and not just think that they can do whatever they want because they are men, because women are also creatures of God whom He loves. Home making is the aim of Islam and not do whatever you like!
Rather Quran Warns the men to kindly treat their women even if they both were to agree over a divorce, and women are to decide equally in the decision of Divorce in Islam, it is NOT only man's right to do it...
When you divorce women, and they reach their prescribed term, then retain them in kindness and retain them not for injury so that you trangress (the limits) (Al Quran 2:231)
Hugo thinks Greek Law, Greek civilization was better than Islamic System... any sensible person would agree to above that Quran liberated women from their status of being treated as slaves or some one even lower than that..... any fool would agree that Greek Law was better than Islamic Law not only in terms of women's rights but all other aspects....
Even if we go in to the Future, the Women did NOT even get their rights as they should,
even up til the period of Renaissance in Europe, leave alone the Pagan Roman and Christian Roman civilizations, which always taught that Eve tempted Adam and all Women are symbols of Eve and so they are all doors to Evil.... May We seek refuge in Allah from Saying such about God's Creatures...
Under English law...
It was not Until 1857 was she able to get out of a Miserable Marriage through a Passage of an Act of Parliament. If i am not mistaken its called the
Matrimonial Causes Act of 1857.... such acts were passed long after the Islamic System was already giving the right of Women in the East under Muslim Rule from hundreds of years, while the women in the West were termed as tempters to evil ... or as someone who can be owned and have no rights.....
Ownership of Property in Islam....
In Islam the Marriage Gift ,
Mahr, a gift given by her husband at the time of marriage contract, does NOT be given to her Husband or father, rather she owns it herself, and does whatever she likes and no one has the right, no male in particular, has the right to take it from her because she is a weaker sex, a female. All property rights which give a women ownership to any property are her's regardless she is married or Single...not even her fathers not even brothers....
Under Greek....
Segregated into strictly enforced domestic spheres, they passed from the male authority of the father to that of their husband. Not until the enlightened reforms of Solon could women inherit property from the father, and then only if there were no sons.
Please click the link above or search online, and one can easily see the women inheritance under Greek Civilizations....
Under
European Law.... Even uptil
1632 English Law Declared
"That which the husband hath is his own. That which the wife hath is her husband's!"
Hugo Praised the French Law, while the French, due to amendement, not until
1938 when women were allowed to do contract. However, even then a married woman was not allowed to dispense her property without the permission of her husband.
This is how you inquire using free thought..... by comparing the Laws and Right and regulations given by each Civilization whether Pre Islamic or Post Islamic, which will show us that all Sets of Ideal Standards and norms, did NOT came to be known to the World, before the
revelation of Quran..... and it was AFTER revelation of Quran that all the ideals i mentioned above came to be known.....
Hugo we have a Beautiful Code of life given by God/Allah... and we would not trade it in for any French, English, American 'Law', for how could we sell Truth for false ? How could we leave the Best Ideals and adopt them for ideals which have errors in them ? Even though History speaks for itself that Beautiful guidelines of Islam have influenced the post Islamic Civilizations....
So i show you the Truth, and i have not abused you... try looking beyond and not what appears as real... do not live in ignorance, for being in ignorance has started to make you think, that that is real...
