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Err... Yeeeeeeessssssssss!
So to introduce myself a bit more; I don't follow a religion as such, but I do believe in God. I was brought up as a Christian. The teachings of the Bible have given me a good moral backbone, and I'm extremely grateful that I had the opportunity to go to Church and Sunday school when I was young. However at the age of about 15 I turned away from Christianity because a lot of the stuff in the Bible, especially the Old Testament, contradicted with with my (very basic) scientific knowledge of the world I observed around me.
For example;
The human race starting with Adam and Eve doesn't make any sense to me, whereas evolution does, and everywhere you look there is evidence to support it.
The chapter of Genesis seems to put Earth and mankind at the centre of God's creation. The fact is however, Earth is just one of the billions of planets in the Universe and its inconceivable that Earth is the only planet to inhabit life.
I also struggled with other concepts, such as;
It seems immoral that we can only get into Heaven if we believe Jesus was the son of God and he died for our sins. Surely God will reward everyone who puts others before themselves and treats others with kindness, respect and tolerance?
I don't like the way how some Christians have a sense of superiority over "non-believers". They believe they know the truth and the non-believers are misguided. But without any real evidence, nobody can really say what the truth is.
Why would God ever write/inspire the Bible for us to live our lives by? God has given us the ability to learn for ourselves how to live in harmony with each other. We were doing this for over 500,000 years before the Scriptures were revealed.
Turning away from Christianity was very hard to do, I was giving up quite a big part of my life, but I just couldn't believe in something that, to me, was unbelievable.
Is Islam a more open minded religion?
I have two Muslim friends and they have told me several times that Islam supports rather than contradicts science, but unfortunately they haven't been able to elaborate, so I'm interested to know more about this as well please.
So to introduce myself a bit more; I don't follow a religion as such, but I do believe in God. I was brought up as a Christian. The teachings of the Bible have given me a good moral backbone, and I'm extremely grateful that I had the opportunity to go to Church and Sunday school when I was young. However at the age of about 15 I turned away from Christianity because a lot of the stuff in the Bible, especially the Old Testament, contradicted with with my (very basic) scientific knowledge of the world I observed around me.
For example;
The human race starting with Adam and Eve doesn't make any sense to me, whereas evolution does, and everywhere you look there is evidence to support it.
The chapter of Genesis seems to put Earth and mankind at the centre of God's creation. The fact is however, Earth is just one of the billions of planets in the Universe and its inconceivable that Earth is the only planet to inhabit life.
I also struggled with other concepts, such as;
It seems immoral that we can only get into Heaven if we believe Jesus was the son of God and he died for our sins. Surely God will reward everyone who puts others before themselves and treats others with kindness, respect and tolerance?
I don't like the way how some Christians have a sense of superiority over "non-believers". They believe they know the truth and the non-believers are misguided. But without any real evidence, nobody can really say what the truth is.
Why would God ever write/inspire the Bible for us to live our lives by? God has given us the ability to learn for ourselves how to live in harmony with each other. We were doing this for over 500,000 years before the Scriptures were revealed.
Turning away from Christianity was very hard to do, I was giving up quite a big part of my life, but I just couldn't believe in something that, to me, was unbelievable.
Is Islam a more open minded religion?
I have two Muslim friends and they have told me several times that Islam supports rather than contradicts science, but unfortunately they haven't been able to elaborate, so I'm interested to know more about this as well please.
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'Evolution' doesn't support or explain the origin of life nor speciation!
you'll set yourself back and have no scientific evidence to what you allege ...
you should also define evolution ..micro or macro it isn't a one size fits all........
:welcome: aboard
you'll set yourself back and have no scientific evidence to what you allege ...
you should also define evolution ..micro or macro it isn't a one size fits all........
:welcome: aboard
Ramadan90
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I think the origins of life andevolution are two totally separate entities.
I haven't heard of any scientificexplanations as to how that first cell came into
existence, and how it had the potentialto evolve into the diverse set of creatures we see
today. Science doesn't explain theorigins of consciousness either. I think only God knows
the answer to these questions.
However evolution does explainspeciation and it is infinitely more rational and believable
than the idea of God creating peopleout of clay! We are all living evidence that evolution
is real.
Macro and micro evolution essentiallylead to the same thing. Macro evolution is nothing but
lots of micro evolution :smile:
I look forward to continuing thisdiscussion on the relevant threads.
Thanks for welcoming me to your forum.
I haven't heard of any scientificexplanations as to how that first cell came into
existence, and how it had the potentialto evolve into the diverse set of creatures we see
today. Science doesn't explain theorigins of consciousness either. I think only God knows
the answer to these questions.
However evolution does explainspeciation and it is infinitely more rational and believable
than the idea of God creating peopleout of clay! We are all living evidence that evolution
is real.
Macro and micro evolution essentiallylead to the same thing. Macro evolution is nothing but
lots of micro evolution :smile:
I look forward to continuing thisdiscussion on the relevant threads.
Thanks for welcoming me to your forum.
Periwinkle18
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Welcome to the forum hope u like it here.
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I urge you then to visit the threads where the topic has already been discussed read them in totality and challenge the science presented.
best,
dysphoricrocker
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Peace be upon you
Welcome here!
Welcome here!
Qurratul Ayn
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Welcome to the forum!
Insha'Allaah (God-willing), you shall learn a lot here and find the answers to your queries
Insha'Allaah (God-willing), you shall learn a lot here and find the answers to your queries
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Welcome to the forum, Seymour
I have to admit, I do like the epic way in which Genesis starts... but yes, I see your problem. Genesis does not support the scientific theory that life evolved. I'll come to that.
Yes, I find it also quite selective that only Christians go to heaven because Jesus (pbuh) died for the sins of the people? Hmmm, we're on a the same page here. And yes, I believe that God judges us according to our intent and deeds.
With regard to the need for scripture. Scripture has always been there Seymour. I mean, before the NT, you had Pslams of David, The OT, Aprocypha, etc etc etc... it seems that man had always been in need of divine moral guidance:
What works for you, works for the rest of humanity also
Islam is an open armed religion. I wouldn't say open minded - but open hearted, with open arms ready to embrace someone who is sincerely searching for truth.
There are many verses in the Quran to do with science. You can find them all over the net. But you know, when I mention that it has scientific information in the Quran, I am not saying it is a book of science. I am saying it is a book of signs. I tell you why...
... Considering that the Quran was revealed around 1400 years ago, when Scientific terms we have today, were non existent - if God had given you verses regarding the origin of life - in scientific terms - who would be able to understand it in that day and age?
So God tells you in ways that are understandable for the humans. In basic terms. In terms that even a child can understand... this is the beauty and appeal of scripture.
With regard to the origin of life, God tells us in the Quran about the nature of creation, and of three intelligent life forms in the universe, and another that is reserved for heaven.
The Quran is often misquoted (just like the bible) because people with dark intentions can take the ambiguous verses and twist them to their own agenda... but if those verses were read with an open heart, free from malice, and with a desire to seek the message in the verse as God intended, it will come.
The Quran explains the Big Bang, the origin of life, the creation of Adam, the mountains, the seas, the planets, the unverse, the sun and moon, orbits... even the star Sirius... and a lot more inbetween. I'm just touching on a few subjects here...
At any rate, Seymour, I'm pleased you joined here. You will find many Christian and Muslim members here who will be able to give you their understanding of the issues you are currently struggling with.
Enjoy your time here
Scimi
I have to admit, I do like the epic way in which Genesis starts... but yes, I see your problem. Genesis does not support the scientific theory that life evolved. I'll come to that.
Yes, I find it also quite selective that only Christians go to heaven because Jesus (pbuh) died for the sins of the people? Hmmm, we're on a the same page here. And yes, I believe that God judges us according to our intent and deeds.
With regard to the need for scripture. Scripture has always been there Seymour. I mean, before the NT, you had Pslams of David, The OT, Aprocypha, etc etc etc... it seems that man had always been in need of divine moral guidance:
What works for you, works for the rest of humanity also
Islam is an open armed religion. I wouldn't say open minded - but open hearted, with open arms ready to embrace someone who is sincerely searching for truth.
There are many verses in the Quran to do with science. You can find them all over the net. But you know, when I mention that it has scientific information in the Quran, I am not saying it is a book of science. I am saying it is a book of signs. I tell you why...
... Considering that the Quran was revealed around 1400 years ago, when Scientific terms we have today, were non existent - if God had given you verses regarding the origin of life - in scientific terms - who would be able to understand it in that day and age?
So God tells you in ways that are understandable for the humans. In basic terms. In terms that even a child can understand... this is the beauty and appeal of scripture.
With regard to the origin of life, God tells us in the Quran about the nature of creation, and of three intelligent life forms in the universe, and another that is reserved for heaven.
The Quran is often misquoted (just like the bible) because people with dark intentions can take the ambiguous verses and twist them to their own agenda... but if those verses were read with an open heart, free from malice, and with a desire to seek the message in the verse as God intended, it will come.
The Quran explains the Big Bang, the origin of life, the creation of Adam, the mountains, the seas, the planets, the unverse, the sun and moon, orbits... even the star Sirius... and a lot more inbetween. I'm just touching on a few subjects here...
At any rate, Seymour, I'm pleased you joined here. You will find many Christian and Muslim members here who will be able to give you their understanding of the issues you are currently struggling with.
Enjoy your time here
Scimi
Thanks for taking the time to make such a detailed post Scimi, I appreciate it
I see your point on scriptures "always being there". Scriptures have been around almost along as writing itself. God may well have revealed himself to humans many times during the hundreds of thousands of years before writing, we just had no way of recording it I suppose.
However I'm not convinced that people would have been confused or overwhelmed by ground breaking scientific concepts in the Bible (or Quran). There's some seriously complicated ideas in the Bible that people still struggle to understand today, so a bit of big bang theory wouldn't have hurt anyone
God could have delivered a message that was scientifically accurate. I mean, how hard can it be?…
In the beginning there was God. God took a grain of sand (a grain of sand maybe being the smallest physical object humans could comprehend at the time - mentioning a singularity would definitely have been pushing it) and said "From this grain let there be a great expanding vastness that encompasses everything". Then God said "Let there also be time, so that everything can have a beginning and an end, and laws (Science) to allow my creation to develop and thrive in perfect harmony until the end of time, and heat and light (energy) so that life might flourish". Then finally, "Let there be life".
This all basic stuff, even a child understands "start off tiny and get bigger", "heat", "light", "time", yet it fits in with the scientific explanation. But "God" didn't do this in the Bible. Instead "God" delivered vague explanations that contradict science. This is one example of why I don't believe the Bible can be the word of God.
Anyway, I realise this is an introductions thread so I'd better wrap up here and get stuck into the Earth and Science forum! I'll certainly look into the pointers you've given;
I see your point on scriptures "always being there". Scriptures have been around almost along as writing itself. God may well have revealed himself to humans many times during the hundreds of thousands of years before writing, we just had no way of recording it I suppose.
However I'm not convinced that people would have been confused or overwhelmed by ground breaking scientific concepts in the Bible (or Quran). There's some seriously complicated ideas in the Bible that people still struggle to understand today, so a bit of big bang theory wouldn't have hurt anyone
God could have delivered a message that was scientifically accurate. I mean, how hard can it be?…
In the beginning there was God. God took a grain of sand (a grain of sand maybe being the smallest physical object humans could comprehend at the time - mentioning a singularity would definitely have been pushing it) and said "From this grain let there be a great expanding vastness that encompasses everything". Then God said "Let there also be time, so that everything can have a beginning and an end, and laws (Science) to allow my creation to develop and thrive in perfect harmony until the end of time, and heat and light (energy) so that life might flourish". Then finally, "Let there be life".
This all basic stuff, even a child understands "start off tiny and get bigger", "heat", "light", "time", yet it fits in with the scientific explanation. But "God" didn't do this in the Bible. Instead "God" delivered vague explanations that contradict science. This is one example of why I don't believe the Bible can be the word of God.
Anyway, I realise this is an introductions thread so I'd better wrap up here and get stuck into the Earth and Science forum! I'll certainly look into the pointers you've given;
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I did not make them witness to the creation of the heavens and the earth or to the creation of themselves, and I would not have taken the misguiders as assistants.
we don't actually know the secrets to creation per Qur'an and surprise surprise science doesn't have the answers either as such if you do then I invite you to share it and please spare no details.
something akin to this:
http://www.iscid.org/papers/Mullan_PrimitiveCell_112302.pdf
I did not make them witness to the creation of the heavens and the earth or to the creation of themselves, and I would not have taken the misguiders as assistants.
we don't actually know the secrets to creation per Qur'an and surprise surprise science doesn't have the answers either as such if you do then I invite you to share it and please spare no details.
something akin to this:
http://www.iscid.org/papers/Mullan_PrimitiveCell_112302.pdf
Could you clarify what you mean by...
Are are you saying that the Quran doesn't try to explain creation then? This is confusing since Scimi said...
I'm not saying Scientists have all the answers, but as each day passes, more answers are being uncovered (If you're looking for a resource that gives a basic explanation of how the Universe began just have a look at the National Geographic website - but if you do a Google search you'll find lots more). I realise there are still a lot of unknowns, Science has probably only scratched the surface so far, but the important point is this; Science gives explanations that are backed up by observations and facts and gives explanations that fit in with other explanations. It slots together nicely like a jigsaw. Even if Science has so far only uncovered 1% of everything there is to know, its still 1% of the truth. So called Scientific explanations/signs in religions texts such as the Bible or the Quran are not backed up by any facts, they're just half- baked, irrational, man-made explanations for concepts that no-body understood when the books were written. So I'm sticking with 1% truth rather than putting my faith in 100% nonsense.
P.S. When you said Surprise Surprise I though you were gonna don a Ginger wig and re-introduce me to my long lost cousin from Australia!
Are are you saying that the Quran doesn't try to explain creation then? This is confusing since Scimi said...
I'm not saying Scientists have all the answers, but as each day passes, more answers are being uncovered (If you're looking for a resource that gives a basic explanation of how the Universe began just have a look at the National Geographic website - but if you do a Google search you'll find lots more). I realise there are still a lot of unknowns, Science has probably only scratched the surface so far, but the important point is this; Science gives explanations that are backed up by observations and facts and gives explanations that fit in with other explanations. It slots together nicely like a jigsaw. Even if Science has so far only uncovered 1% of everything there is to know, its still 1% of the truth. So called Scientific explanations/signs in religions texts such as the Bible or the Quran are not backed up by any facts, they're just half- baked, irrational, man-made explanations for concepts that no-body understood when the books were written. So I'm sticking with 1% truth rather than putting my faith in 100% nonsense.
P.S. When you said Surprise Surprise I though you were gonna don a Ginger wig and re-introduce me to my long lost cousin from Australia!
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How the universe came to be and the machination of our creation are two separate things wouldn't you agree?
If you aren't s scientist and don't know how science works then I don't need fillers .. I don't need you to speak if how progressive one thing is and how backwards another is when you are merely substituting one belief for another
You are on to something though observation and data are imperative so far you've presented neither just merely hyperbolic rhetoric that does nothing for anyone
I have given a PDF on how I expect a scientific paper to do with the subject if you don't have that then simply admit that you've merely substituted one belief for another and not quite sure how to defend it when push comes to shove!
If you aren't s scientist and don't know how science works then I don't need fillers .. I don't need you to speak if how progressive one thing is and how backwards another is when you are merely substituting one belief for another
You are on to something though observation and data are imperative so far you've presented neither just merely hyperbolic rhetoric that does nothing for anyone
I have given a PDF on how I expect a scientific paper to do with the subject if you don't have that then simply admit that you've merely substituted one belief for another and not quite sure how to defend it when push comes to shove!
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Greetings seymour,
As this is the Introduce Yourself section, such discussions would be better placed elsewhere on the forum. However, as the holy month of Ramadhan is virtually here, the appropriate sections are closed for this duration and therefore a discussion such as this will have to wait.
As this is the Introduce Yourself section, such discussions would be better placed elsewhere on the forum. However, as the holy month of Ramadhan is virtually here, the appropriate sections are closed for this duration and therefore a discussion such as this will have to wait.
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