What's the deal with the Sufi and Salafiyyah???? Why do they fight eachother?

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Nikki1234

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Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Soooo I am new to Islam (It'll be a year this coming february since I took my shahada). I do not know very much about Islam. All I know is that I believe that there is no God but, God and that Allah is the only one worhty of worship. I worship only Allah. I believe that the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhim wasallam is the messenger of Allah. Everything else, I don't really have much knowledge of. So it's a little confusing to know who I should learn from. I have two muslim friends who both follow the Sunnah. But, one is Salafiyyah and the other is just Sunni but, believes that Sufi's are pious people. They both claim that the other is not muslim because of there sect of Islam. How come they can't just either share knowledge to find out the truth or agree-to-disagree? I feel like I am stuck in the middle and I don't know who I should learn from because I want to know both sides. And I value both friendships. I don't like sneaking around learning from one person and then sneaking to learn from the other. Please share your thoughts, advice, feelings, and comments. Barakallahou feekum.

Shukran,

Nikki
 
Salam sis. There are both salafis and sufis in this forum and everywhere. Your confusion will not be cleared up by just asking. Read more and decide yourself which is right. Just dont make it a matter of confusion. Neither salafi nor sufi is found in Quran. Only Muslim is found in Quran
 
You should always label yourself as Muslim first and foremost but regarding this to sects. I would recommand you reject one and accept the other.

The Salafists are more puriest and closest to the truth in their practices of the deen where as the sufis have alot of issues regarding practices and have also alot of superstitions
 
Nikki1234 said:
Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Soooo I am new to Islam (It'll be a year this coming february since I took my shahada). I do not know very much about Islam. All I know is that I believe that there is no God but, God and that Allah is the only one worhty of worship. I worship only Allah. I believe that the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhim wasallam is the messenger of Allah. Everything else, I don't really have much knowledge of. So it's a little confusing to know who I should learn from. I have two muslim friends who both follow the Sunnah. But, one is Salafiyyah and the other is just Sunni but, believes that Sufi's are pious people. They both claim that the other is not muslim because of there sect of Islam. How come they can't just either share knowledge to find out the truth or agree-to-disagree? I feel like I am stuck in the middle and I don't know who I should learn from because I want to know both sides. And I value both friendships. I don't like sneaking around learning from one person and then sneaking to learn from the other. Please share your thoughts, advice, feelings, and comments. Barakallahou feekum.

Shukran,

Nikki
Click to expand...


Asalaamualaykum

The differences are very intricate and require more than the basic knowledge of the layman to actually ascertain the right from wrong (If applicable).

You need to speak to each sides scholars regarding their views and chose for yourself.

The greatest fallacy regarding these differences between these 2 groups is that the layman on each side with very limited knowledge makes unjust remarks about the other side with very little knowledge regarding the actually differences.

All the layman on each side does here is basically parrot repeats from their Scholars although they still don't understand the issue at its fullest measure.

Consider the following Example:

A man goes to his GP and after tests are done finds out he is diagnosed with Cancer. He does not accept the GP's diagnoses and asks the GP for proof. The GP then spends more time with him showing him all the proofs on paper and scan results etc. The man then believes he has Cancer after looking at the proof.

Although the man now believes he has cancer after looking at the proof, the harsh reality is he is in no better position before or after looking at the proof. The reason being is that although proof was rendered to him on paper and scan results etc...How does the layman know that the very derivation or methodology of the test was correct so as to result in a correct diagnoses ? Just simply seeing the proof on paper and scans might render a possible proof but definitely does not qualify the patient to be a Dr or say he now has expert knowledge of how Cancer is diagnosed.

Using that parable this is what happens between most layman Salafis, Wahabis, Sufis, Tablighis (and whatever other mainstream groups exists) and the entire following of each groups. They know what their side says and they might know what the other side says but I can assure you that most are not in a position to actually academically form a final unbiased decision between the differences.

The sheer arrogance of these people is similar to that of a person that travels on an Aeroplane weekly. After 10 years of being a passenger, is that person qualified to say that they know the exact ins and outs of how the Aeroplane works ranging from the mechanical parts, to the electronics, to the aerodynamics, the flight patterns, the procedures of emergency etc etc .

The point here being is that this problem of group bashing ranging from accusations of bidah right up to Kufr is a serious topic that one has to spend many years learning Islam and all its related sciences.

As a revert it is either recommended that you follow Islam in accordance with the ones whos hands you reverted upon OR follow the majority in your area.



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Nikki1234 said:
Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Soooo I am new to Islam (It'll be a year this coming february since I took my shahada). I do not know very much about Islam. All I know is that I believe that there is no God but, God and that Allah is the only one worhty of worship. I worship only Allah. I believe that the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhim wasallam is the messenger of Allah. Everything else, I don't really have much knowledge of. So it's a little confusing to know who I should learn from. I have two muslim friends who both follow the Sunnah. But, one is Salafiyyah and the other is just Sunni but, believes that Sufi's are pious people. They both claim that the other is not muslim because of there sect of Islam. How come they can't just either share knowledge to find out the truth or agree-to-disagree? I feel like I am stuck in the middle and I don't know who I should learn from because I want to know both sides. And I value both friendships. I don't like sneaking around learning from one person and then sneaking to learn from the other. Please share your thoughts, advice, feelings, and comments. Barakallahou feekum.

Shukran,

Nikki
Click to expand...


Asalaamualaykum

The differences are very intricate and require more than the basic knowledge of the layman to actually ascertain the right from wrong (If applicable).

You need to speak to each sides scholars regarding their views and chose for yourself.

The greatest fallacy regarding these differences between these 2 groups is that the layman on each side with very limited knowledge makes unjust remarks about the other side with very little knowledge regarding the actually differences.

All the layman on each side does here is basically parrot repeats from their Scholars although they still don't understand the issue at its fullest measure.

Consider the following Example:

A man goes to his GP and after tests are done finds out he is diagnosed with Cancer. He does not accept the GP's diagnoses and asks the GP for proof. The GP then spends more time with him showing him all the proofs on paper and scan results etc. The man then believes he has Cancer after looking at the proof.

Although the man now believes he has cancer after looking at the proof, the harsh reality is he is in no better position before or after looking at the proof. The reason being is that although proof was rendered to him on paper and scan results etc...How does the layman know that the very derivation or methodology of the test was correct so as to result in a correct diagnoses ? Just simply seeing the proof on paper and scans might render a possible proof but definitely does not qualify the patient to be a Dr or say he now has expert knowledge of how Cancer is diagnosed.

Using that parable this is what happens between most layman Salafis, Wahabis, Sufis, Tablighis (and whatever other mainstream groups exists) and the entire following of each groups. They know what their side says and they might know what the other side says but I can assure you that most are not in a position to actually academically form a final unbiased decision between the differences.

The sheer arrogance of these people is similar to that of a person that travels on an Aeroplane weekly. After 10 years of being a passenger, is that person qualified to say that they know the exact ins and outs of how the Aeroplane works ranging from the mechanical parts, to the electronics, to the aerodynamics, the flight patterns, the procedures of emergency etc etc .

The point here being is that this problem of group bashing ranging from accusations of bidah right up to Kufr is a serious topic that one has to spend many years learning Islam and all its related sciences.

As a revert it is either recommended that you follow Islam in accordance with the ones whos hands you reverted upon OR follow the majority in your area.

 
As Salaamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh! @anatolian @urkahnkhan @Supernova . Thanks for all the feedback everyone it was very helpful. I will continue to look into the actual proofs and the authenticity of them. I really appreciate the feedback. Shukran. May Allah reward you all.

Barakallahou feekum.
 
I would say, listen to both sides because both sides will have usefull information for you. you can even test the information from one with presenting to the other and ask him what he thinks about that. with that information you will have a better view of the differences.
you can easily filter out the superstitions and other inaccurate parts.
What is left is the best from both sides.
You do not even have to keep this a secret from them...you can easily say `I have this sufi (or salafi) friend and he says that....what do you think about it?`
 
Nikki1234 said:
Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,Soooo I am new to Islam (It'll be a year this coming february since I took my shahada). I do not know very much about Islam. All I know is that I believe that there is no God but, God and that Allah is the only one worhty of worship. I worship only Allah. I believe that the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhim wasallam is the messenger of Allah. Everything else, I don't really have much knowledge of. So it's a little confusing to know who I should learn from. I have two muslim friends who both follow the Sunnah. But, one is Salafiyyah and the other is just Sunni but, believes that Sufi's are pious people. They both claim that the other is not muslim because of there sect of Islam. How come they can't just either share knowledge to find out the truth or agree-to-disagree? I feel like I am stuck in the middle and I don't know who I should learn from because I want to know both sides. And I value both friendships. I don't like sneaking around learning from one person and then sneaking to learn from the other. Please share your thoughts, advice, feelings, and comments. Barakallahou feekum. Shukran,Nikki
Click to expand...
abstain from sectarian ideology. Study Quran and ahadith and do lots of dua
 
Assalaamo alaikum.


When you have the Divine Book of guidance called the Holy Quraan fully explained orally and practically by the Sunnah (ahadeeth and method of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam) then what is the problem in understanding the Deen of Islam? You can analyze the sayings of the two friends in the light of the two sources (Quraan and the Sunnah) and can guide them to the right Path of Islam.


@ Nikki 1234
 
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I personally am against the ideas of there being certain sects with one being "more correct" than the other. In the Qur'an, it is mentioned a few times not to divide the religion into sects:

VERILY, as for those who have broken the unity of their faith and have become SECTS - thou hast nothing to do with them. [161] Behold, their case rests with God: and in time He will make them understand what they were doing. - 6:159

[161] relates prophetically to the followers of the Qur’an as well: in other words, it expresses a condemnation of all sectarianism arising out of people's intolerant, mutually-exclusive claims to being "the only true exponents" of the Qur'anic teachings

And hold fast, all together, unto the bond with God, and do not draw apart from one another. (3:103)

If the Prophet did an action and is mentioned in an authentic hadith in the sunnah, then you are allowed to do it. And if he did not do an action because he disproved it, then you should not do it. If the Prophet prayed in different ways, then one way isn't better than the other; if you pray one way, you are following the sunnah, and if you pray the other way, you're still following the sunnah. If the Prophet did not do something and an innovation is attributed to him, then this is bid'ah and is a sin, as the Prophet :saws: said:

Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “…Verily he among you who lives [long] will see great controversy, so you must keep to my Sunnah and to the Sunnah of the rightly-guided Khalifahs – cling to them stubbornly. Beware of newly invented matters, for every inventedmatter is an innovation and every innovation is a going astray, andevery going astray is in Hell-fire.” [Abu Dawud and At-Tirmidhi]

If you disagree with someone's worship because you feel it is out of the folds of Islam (because it is a bid'ah or an extreme), then explain why you feel they are wrong. If they are stubborn and won't change, then leave them but do not force them to change with violence, like we are seeing in the world with Sunni vs Shia conflicts. The Qur'an doesn't specify Sunni, Shia, Sufi, Hanafi, Shafi, Salafi, etc, etc. What does the Qur'an say?

وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ قَوْلًا مِّمَّن دَعَا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا وَقَالَ إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ

And who is better in speech than he who invites to Allah, and does righteous deeds, and says: "I am one of the Muslims."
 
:sl: wr wb Sister

Welcome to the Forum.

Both are correct if they follow up the Glorious Quran & hadith and wisdom of Islam that STRESSES ON UNITY & GOOD MANNERS.

If they leave they have deviated from Islam citing petty things and entering the big sin of disunity and bad manners

The essence here while the Salaf call themselves to follow the roots of Islam (ie Prophet :saws: and Sahabas and nearest followers) but TOO MUCH or FANATISM AND TAKFIR (declaring one is a kaffir) for some mistakes of Muslims or with just doubts they had deviated from the Salaf and joined Shaitan.

While Sufi's due to over love of Allah (which is good and Ok) had gone so far as to dancing etc (non Islamic) etc Some have taken their Sheiks as everything which is again is wrong.

To escape from the THOSE deviants from both the groups try to educate yourselves with the UNDERSTANDING of the glorious Quran , Hadiths and the 2-3 generations from Prophet :saws: which are guaranteed by 10's of sahih hadith as the BEST OF THE MUSLIM UMMAH.

kindly give a good read to this thread particularly in Quote of post #121 ans see these things were already Prophesied by Allah through his Prophet :saws: before 1400 + years, So if you know them Inshallah you will become safer.

https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/i...ed-Hadiths-amp-Verses-and-their-Wisdom/page9=
 
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:wasalam:


Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also described them in the following terms: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in Hell except one group.” They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah? He said: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.”


The salafi and the sufi are seen as two extreme ends of the spectrum to the laymen Muslims.

The salafi follow the as-salaf, the pious predecessors, in implementing Islam as they did. Those who are against them call them extreme, wahabi, and other names because they don't want to follow Islam that closely to the letter.

The sufi are involved in mysticism. They follow their own bidah ways of worshiping saints and graves and call it Islam. They will sugar coat it to make it look like part of Islam and try to sell that to you. Simple google of sufi worship or rather dancing around in circles like monkeys will show you that.

So do not listen to the advice given here about listening to and learning from both sides. You wouldn't go to satan to learn about his downfall. Rather what you should do is learn real Islam from the Quran and Sunnah. This will help you to see what aligns with it and what doesn't and see for yourself who is right and who is misguided in their ways.

Here's some resources you can visit inshallah:

https://islamqa.info/en/20375
https://islamqa.info/en/206
https://islamqa.info/en/90112
https://islamqa.info/en/20760
http://en.islamway.net/article/11953/the-sufis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atKMRZ5snTA


 
Zzz_ said:
:wasalam:


Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also described them in the following terms: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in Hell except one group.” They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah? He said: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.”


The salafi and the sufi are seen as two extreme ends of the spectrum to the laymen Muslims.

The salafi follow the as-salaf, the pious predecessors, in implementing Islam as they did. Those who are against them call them extreme, wahabi, and other names because they don't want to follow Islam that closely to the letter.

The sufi are involved in mysticism. They follow their own bidah ways of worshiping saints and graves and call it Islam. They will sugar coat it to make it look like part of Islam and try to sell that to you. Simple google of sufi worship or rather dancing around in circles like monkeys will show you that.

So do not listen to the advice given here about listening to and learning from both sides. You wouldn't go to satan to learn about his downfall. Rather what you should do is learn real Islam from the Quran and Sunnah. This will help you to see what aligns with it and what doesn't and see for yourself who is right and who is misguided in their ways.

Here's some resources you can visit inshallah:

https://islamqa.info/en/20375
https://islamqa.info/en/206
https://islamqa.info/en/90112
https://islamqa.info/en/20760
http://en.islamway.net/article/11953/the-sufis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atKMRZ5snTA
Click to expand...

Are you ridiculous?
 
talibilm said:
:sl: wr wb Sister

Welcome to the Forum.

Both are correct if they follow up the Glorious Quran & hadith and wisdom of Islam that STRESSES ON UNITY & GOOD MANNERS.

If they leave they have deviated from Islam citing petty things and entering the big sin of disunity and bad manners

The essence here while the Salaf call themselves to follow the roots of Islam (ie Prophet :saws: and Sahabas and nearest followers) but TOO MUCH or FANATISM AND TAKFIR (declaring one is a kaffir) for some mistakes of Muslims or with just doubts they had deviated from the Salaf and joined Shaitan.

While Sufi's due to over love of Allah (which is good and Ok) had gone so far as to dancing etc (non Islamic) etc Some have taken their Sheiks as everything which is again is wrong.

To escape from the THOSE deviants from both the groups try to educate yourselves with the UNDERSTANDING of the glorious Quran , Hadiths and the 2-3 generations from Prophet :saws: which are guaranteed by 10's of sahih hadith as the BEST OF THE MUSLIM UMMAH.

kindly give a good read to this thread particularly in Quote of post #121 ans see these things were already Prophesied by Allah through his Prophet :saws: before 1400 + years, So if you know them Inshallah you will become safer.

https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/i...ed-Hadiths-amp-Verses-and-their-Wisdom/page9=
Click to expand...

:sl:

SUBSTANTIATING THE ABOVE POST

The glorious Quran 3:103 ''And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah (i.e. this Quran), and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allah's Favour on you, for you were enemies one to another but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His Grace, you became brethren (in Islamic Faith), and you were on the brink of a pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allah makes His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.,) clear to you, that you may be guided.''


Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 4781

Narrated AbudDarda':
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is nothing heavier than good CHARACTER put in the scale of a believer on the Day of Resurrection.


Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 57 :: Hadith 104

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:
Allah's Apostle neither talked in an insulting manner nor did he ever speak evil intentionally. He used to say, "The most beloved to me amongst you is the one who has the best character and manners." He added, " Learn the Qur'an from (any of these) four persons. 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud, Salim the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa, Ubai bin Ka'b, and Mu'adh bin Jabal."

Look out for10's of hadith on this.
 
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This ummah has been divided in many groups and sects and each of them has some good and some bad qualities.
 
umie said:
I would say, listen to both sides because both sides will have usefull information for you. you can even test the information from one with presenting to the other and ask him what he thinks about that. with that information you will have a better view of the differences.
you can easily filter out the superstitions and other inaccurate parts.
What is left is the best from both sides.
You do not even have to keep this a secret from them...you can easily say `I have this sufi (or salafi) friend and he says that....what do you think about it?`
Click to expand...
[MENTION=42042]umie[/MENTION] Thanks for your feedback I've been trying this but, it seems like if I associate with any Sufi's then the Salafiyah's don't want to talk to me on the other hand if I talk to Salafiyah's then Sufi's dont want to talk to me. They say I don't know enough to protect myself from incorrect information. They say I should talk to the other at all. But, there's this other Muslimah who is Sunni and she's not Sufi but, she doesn't think that true Sufism is bad. She says there are "Sufi claimers" who do and believe wild things and give Sufi's a bad name. However, my Salafiyah friends are all like "whatever she's Sufi she has Sufi beliefs. Stay away from her." I want to learn both and I want to be friends with both of my sisters However, I think I will have to just tell the Salafiyah sister that i talk to this I other sister that believes differently.... IDK maybe I should just keep it to myself because I don't think the Salafiyah sister will talk to me if she knows my other friends beliefs.... or even some of my own beleifs

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azc said:
abstain from sectarian ideology. Study Quran and ahadith and do lots of dua
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thank you [MENTION=38240]azc[/MENTION] for your feedback. I like the idea of staying away from sects. If anything I claim to follow the sunnah. However even that can be divided. Why do people act like I have to claim a sub-sect?

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Thank you so much [MENTION=42360]99sobi[/MENTION] I agree with alot of what ypu said however I still dont understand why some people say that the Quran say that there will be 73 sects but only one is true
 
It is obligatory to distinguish truth from falsehood when warranted. For example, it would be important to say you are from Ahlus Sunnah wa Jamaah rather than Al-Shia. Tassawuf or Sufism is about purification of the heart and that is permissible so long as it doesn't fall into the unlawful and extremes that some of these sufi sects have fallen into, and Allah's refuge is sought from that.

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It is obligatory to distinguish truth from falsehood when warranted. For example, it would be important to say you are from Ahlus Sunnah wa Jamaah rather than Al-Shia. Tassawuf or Sufism is about purification of the heart and that is permissible so long as it doesn't fall into the unlawful and extremes that some of these sufi sects have fallen into, and Allah's refuge is sought from that.
 
On of the sisters I talk to follows the Sunnak but, does not claim sufi. however, she says "True Sufi's follow the sunnah and are pious people." She also says that "there are some people who claim to be Sufi but, they have the incorrect belief and do not follow the sunnah and are not really truely Sufi and they give true Sufi's a bad reputation."
 

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