When the mahdi arrives, will he consider jamaats heretical?

[Mustafa16]

when the mahdi arrives, will he consider jamaats like gulen movement, tablighi jamaat, sufi tariqats, suleymanists, etc. to be heretical? what is the islamic ruling on these groups, and how they are to be treated under the sharia? i want to know, because if they are heretical, i want to abandon such groups. i am starting to admire more about mainstream islam as i listen to and read from islamic sources which aren't from my jamaat.

 

[Simple_Person]

There is a hadith that talks about Jews becoming 71 sects, 1 enters paradise and 70 will enter hell fire. The Christians will become 72 sects, 1 will enter paradise and 71 will enter hell fire. The Muslims will become 73 sects, 1 will enter paradise and 72 will enter hell fire.

It was i believe asked which group of the Muslims will enter paradise and the group being the main body.

Logically one could indeed confirm it being this one. How? This day and age, the "sunni is the mainstream". However just because the sunni-group being the mainstream one, one could say this doesn't mean it is the right one. However even this question can be asked based on logic, rationality and reason that it is the right one.

The sunni is a group that is it's teaching are based on the Qur'an and (strong)-hadith. In other words we do things (pray, wudu, ghusl, eat with right hand, be good to our parents, siblings, neighbors, people, do not eat pork, drink wine, have zina, not because we "feel" like it etc. etc. , but we base in on certain proof. So on the Day of Judgement if it is asked of us every individual among us, how come you did not eat pork for example, we say based on this and that proof it was made clear for us that it is PROHIBITED to eat it. Every aspect of our lives is already made clear how to do it and what is not clear, there are methods that can be used to clarify it.

For example, when there is something that was unknown in the past, but we have to deal it in the present time. You look at it. If one MUST choose between 2 evils, Islam says choose the lesser evil. For example, a couple of weeks ago a family member was talking to me and said he was planning to go buy a house with his wife. I said according to Islam it is prohibited as it included usury(riba) and such. I said living in a rented house that also includes riba, compared to buying a house that includes riba is having a rented house better. As it is a lesser evil. He however tried to defend it. How do i know he KNEW also it was wrong? When i know something, i say it and i stop talking about. However he kept talking and talking and talking to defend it..which from psychological perspective is a sign somebody indeed also knows it and tries to justify their decision, while it is clear as sky is clear from earth why it is a wrong decision. I left him as he is as he himself knows and i did not want to go in argument. However also on the Day of Judgement i may be testifying against him if he indeed still have followed such path.

About Mahdi, i will refrain from saying anything.

So the question is, is somebody who belongs to one of those groups have a "better" mentality than me who just follows Qur'an and Sunnah and says he is a Muslim? Off course not, because Qur'an and Sunnah makes it obligatory for me to be good to others, to search for knowledge, to give prayer it rights (doing it slowly and with concentration), to do dhikr(remembrance of Allah) with concentration, to be good to my wife and give a good upbringing to my children etc. etc. Islam sub'han'Allah is as complete as it can get. No addition needed that for example we see people trying to added. As just recently some Turkish woman opened a mosque in Germany so all kind of groups can including men and women can pray next to one another (equality =_=!). I'm sorry but if i pray behind a woman and i see her behind will sorry but i have not prayed AT ALL. As all went through my head is everything except concentration of the prayer. This every person who has just a BIT of logic can have this conclusion, but these people who come up with such things are not really trying to please Allah, rather trying to please people. Just look at western media, they went with their camera's to the opening like packs of wolves. Because they liked that idea, while what i want or want you we do not go by. We go by what Allah wants.

Anyhow bro, think about it. Feeling a Muslim, not Sunni, or any group with a feeling of having a balanced approach will only satisfy you. Nothing else. On the Day of Judgement also you will be able to answer for every action you have done because you have done it according to Qur'an and (strong) hadith. If one even would have had a talk with Said Nursi, he would have told you that he has NOT introduced anything new. Rather a refreshment of Islam and what it stands for (pursuing scientific knowledge). However people like Gulen and Erdogan they twist things because they themselves do not understand of it or have some hidden agenda. Which you see clearly with both of the groups (nationalism). If you read the story of Said Nursi you will see he stood up AGAINST Mustafa Kemal and his ideology (nationalism). While right now Gulen and Erdogan raise nationalism up high.

 

[anatolian]

Said Nursi was a strong scholar. I have recently discovered him. Also he supported the Turkist ideals for the cause of Islam. But even if you are going to follow Nur jamaat be careful of any bidah and toxic teaching. The problem with todays jamaats they are very open to corruption and misleading. West have long time ago discovered the power of Islamic groups and have agents working in them. Their goal is to corrupt the jamaat since they know they cant corrupt Islam itself.

 

[Simple_Person]

Said Nursi was a strong scholar. I have recently discovered him. Also he supported the Turkist ideals for the cause of Islam.

Not sure where you base this "Turkist ideals"..if you say unity among people, no scholar or even Muslim is against this principle. If you try to push nationalism in this so called "Turkisch ideals", i'm sorry but if you have read his life story you will see he was rather against this. Nationalism is destined to lose, just like falsehood is destined to lose against truth. Nationalism rather divides instead of unites. As nationalism is ONLY bound to a certain people ONLY not Muslims as a whole. People who pursue nationalism, will kill somebody else of the SAME religion all for the sake to protect nationalism as we see enough in the Middle East. Do not care for anything else besides nationalism.

But then again, Turkish nationalists like yourself cannot hold themselves back but to push nationalism in every single aspect of life or thinking. Just like you have for example those blind nationalists among people in the Middle East that are so desperate to say Salaheddine Al-Ayoubi was a Arab or a Turk..ALL for the sake of nationalism. While he was a Kurd fighting for Islam, that i call him my brother not because he was a Kurd, but because he said he was a Muslim and clearly fought for the sake of Islam and not nationalism (as this concept did not exist back then). All for Allah and for Allah alone. But again, i am a fool that tries to talk to you. Like talking to a wall.

 

[anatolian]

Not sure where you base this "Turkist ideals"..if you say unity among people, no scholar or even Muslim is against this principle. If you try to push nationalism in this so called "Turkisch ideals", i'm sorry but if you have read his life story you will see he was rather against this. Nationalism is destined to lose, just like falsehood is destined to lose against truth. Nationalism rather divides instead of unites. As nationalism is ONLY bound to a certain people ONLY not Muslims as a whole. People who pursue nationalism, will kill somebody else of the SAME religion all for the sake to protect nationalism as we see enough in the Middle East. Do not care for anything else besides nationalism.

But then again, Turkish nationalists like yourself cannot hold themselves back but to push nationalism in every single aspect of life or thinking. Just like you have for example those blind nationalists among people in the Middle East that are so desperate to say Salaheddine Al-Ayoubi was a Arab or a Turk..ALL for the sake of nationalism. While he was a Kurd fighting for Islam, that i call him my brother not because he was a Kurd, but because he said he was a Muslim and clearly fought for the sake of Islam and not nationalism (as this concept did not exist back then). All for Allah and for Allah alone. But again, i am a fool that tries to talk to you. Like talking to a wall.

I can write a detailed answer for what you said but if you really think talking to me is like talking to a wall ( though I have no idea where from you got this prejudice) then dont waste my time.

 

[Simple_Person]

I can write a detailed answer for what you said but if you really think talking to me is like talking to a wall ( though I have no idea where from you got this prejudice) then dont waste my time.

For me the person who says he is a Muslim but based on logic, rationality and reason does not have the cojones to say that he would wipe dog..s-.hi--t from under his shoe with the Turkish flags, says enough (*kuch*..*kuch*..pursuing nationalism..*kuch*..*kuch*).

I am very direct, i do not try to be friendly or prevent hurt anybody's feelings when i speak the truth but speak out even if you cry me a river. When i am wrong i will say i am wrong, when that is the case it is based on logic, rationality and reason i acknowledge i am wrong, not because of anything else. Truth is clear from falsehood. If somebody tells the truth, there are 2 types of people.

Type 1: He will LOVE you because you are not afraid of speaking the truth
Type 2: He will HATE you because you say what he does not want to hear (truth)...aka this is the hypocrite.

In the Qur'an we often see such examples, that Allah is DIRECT no "beating around the bush", but rather His speech is DIRECT. To reach certain people first with wisdom is done, but if those people are hypocrites or hiding the truth after the first step of doing with wisdom, Allah is DIRECT. We both have often had the conversation about all kind of things. You try to brand yourself a Turk, while based on logic, rationality and reason you are NOT a Turk by ethnicity. However this you do not want to hear off course. You try to somehow not want to brand the actions of Erdogan as actions of hypocrites, to somehow soften this stance, but truth is truth and we are afraid of Allah not some unjust so called "leader". Etc. etc.

So if you do not like me for being so direct, go complain to Allah that there is a guy that calls himself "Simple_Person" and he is very direct in his speech and does not care what other people think of what he says as long as it is the truth.

 

[anatolian]

I am going to give you a "simple advice" as a member of the forum. When I ask you simple questions you usually talk about tons of some other things but do not give me the simple answer of my question. Again I have no idea of what you try to mean in the above post but I simply see you have not answered me. Well so I am not going to answer your previous post.

 

[Simple_Person]

I am going to give you a "simple advice" as a member of the forum. When I ask you simple questions you usually talk about tons of some other things but do not give me the simple answer of my question. Again I have no idea of what you try to mean in the above post but I simply see you have not answered me. Well so I am not going to answer your previous post.

There are questions that that can be answered by simple yes/no indeed, there are also questions that cannot be answered by a simple yes/no.

Also, i am not really "waiting" for your explanation or your reply. I have said in the past that brother [MENTION=31950]Scimitar[/MENTION] for example is often very harsh in his comments and i disagree with him more often than not on certain things, but sometimes his harshness is the EXACT attitude that needs to be shown to certain people, as they DO NOT WANT to understand. To you, this harshness is placed as you are not "joining" discussion based on wanting to seek the truth, rather just want to defend nationalism. When MAYBE the case is of miscommunication and the opportunity is given to you to explain what you mean, you throw nationalism all over the place =_=!. Also you seem to not understand what is the difference between loving what Allah has made you born in to or pursuing nationalism. This further more shows that the time spend discussing with you is time wasted. Why? Because often i say MAYBE even just a small maybe that other person is right and i give that individual a chance to explain themselves further and further question things to understand their stance/opinion and proof MYSELF WRONG and them right. With you i have given up as i have given you enough chances to explain yourself. But it is the typical Turkish version of Islamic brotherhood (as long as Turkish nationalism keeps on existing).
[MENTION=38474]Mustafa16[/MENTION] slowly is also seeing from the other perspectives, while you blindly have bitten on nationalism without any chance of seeing you letting go of it. This also shows clearly that age has NOTHING to do with change. Mustafa16 is younger than i am and when i was his age, you could not even have talked to me about anything else besides nationalism (i was pro-nationalism). Yet you i think are even older than me and Mustafa16 but fail to grasp other perspectives except nationalism.

Good luck with it.