Where did Allah (swt) come from?

[abu_musab461]

Also the question "where did Allah come from?" is a satanic question- meaning one that is inspired by shaytan to cause a believer to have doubts about his Lord.

This is mentioned in hadith-

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Satan comes to one of you and says, 'Who created so-and-so? 'till he says, 'Who has created your Lord?' So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such thoughts."

 

[marwen]

Assalamu alaikom.

Please excuse me if this post is too late. But this topic is really attractive and I should write something about.

Where did Allah come from ? :hmm: I see that some people are still asking this question.
My answer is : you really shouldn't ask this question, because it simply makes no sense.
And you have to admit that Allah just exists, and has neither beginning nor end.

I will explain :

Let's take an example : you know what is a "baker", he is the man who makes bread. When we look at a piece of bread made by this baker, we find that the piece of bread have some caracteristics : it's yellowish, it has a smell of bread, it is edible and it is tasty. Now, we look at the baker who made that piece of bread and we ask : why that baker doesn't have the caracteristics of the bread ? => that make no sense because the baker who made a piece of bread is logically different form the bread that he make in tow sides :
1) he has different caracteristics from those of the piece of bread : he is not yellowish, he moves and he walkes, he breathes, he is not edible and he smells like a man ;D
2) the (physical) rules that we can apply to a piece of bread, are not applicable to the baker, for example : when we put a piece of bread in the water it will be spoiled. but a man (the baker) can stay in the water for hours and he is not harmed.

Now after this example let's return to our main question : Where did Allah come from ?
First, we should know that all the knowledge we have as humans, and all types of reasoning we can do are issued from things we see, hear and touch. You totally agree with me that all these things we feel around us are creatures made by Allah. You can not give me a description of any thing (that makes sense) whithout referring to something created by Allah. All the caracteristics of objects that we learn, and all the rules (physical and logical rules) applicable for these objects are defined just for objects created by Allah. But we cannot to Allah himself because he is the one who created them so he is logically different from him, and because no one of us have seen Allah or knows really what is Allah like, so we cannot apply to Allah our human rules which are limited to creatures that are materially accessible by our peception.

One of these rules we apply for all material objects around us is : EVERY THING THAT EXISTS IS CAUSED (or generated) BY ANOTHER THING. for example, a piece of bread is caused by the baker who made it, and a car exists because a manufacturer made it. But this rule is not applicable to Allah. Allah can exist whithout having something or some evenement which caused his existence. Does this seem illogical ? No ! it's not illogical, I prefer to say : it's beyound our human reasoning and our knowledge. You see, our mind is limited, and there is some areas where our mind can't go forward.

 

[MSalman]

What I know is that Allahu 'Azza wa Jalla was creating everything below Himself.

wa as-salamu alayka brother Abdul

may Allah preserve you akh, sometime this can be ambiguous and misleading. Therefore, we say that Allah Ta'ala created and creates everything outside and separate from Him. The direction 'below' only came into existence when there was a creation because the direction is nothing but a tool used to describe whereness of Allah from the perspective of creation. It is nothing but a concept in our minds. Allah Ta'ala did not first create 'below' and then created creation in that below. get what i mean?

rather he created time

brother, time is not an actual creation of Allah; it is a merely concept that exists in our minds. We simply use it to describe the numbers of occurrence of events.

and indeed Allah knows best

 

[marwen]

Assalamu Alaikom.

Brother "IslamicLife", I liked your post, but there is a point I'm affraid I'm not totally ok with :
you said:
[ time is not an actual creation of Allah; it is a merely concept that exists in our minds. We simply use it to describe the numbers of occurrence of events. ]

Your idea is correct when you say that time is used to describe the numbers of occurence of events. But if you mean that time only exists in our minds, this is not really correct. Because time exists independently of whether we exist or not. Allah did create time by conceiving the universe in such a way that the events are occuring in succession one after the other, so all the created objects are progressing from an initial state (beginning) to a final state (end, death, ...). So, If the usiverse is permanently evolving and in motion from a state to another every instant, then we admit that time is one of the fundamental things created inseparately within the universe, to rule its progression, just like the clock in the core of a computer, that gives its components automation.
So Time is created by God independently of our own peception of time (that exist in our mind). In the abstract, time is the changing nature of all the things in the universe, like the sun, the moon ...
Look at that verse of the Qur'an :
هو الذي جعل الشمس ضياء والقمر نورا وقدره منازل لتعلمو عدد السنين و الحساب
[sourat yunus (Jonah), Verse 5]
Translation :
It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for it; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.

So Allah made the things he created (in the instant he created them) changing and evolving, and that caracteristic of the created objects (this caracteristic is created with these objects) is represented by time in our minds. So whatever is the representation of time in our minds (a duration of a day, or a second, a tick of a clock, ...) time exists outside of our minds, and is created by God in the core of the creation.

 

[MSalman]

^ my brother, may Allah preserve you, you agree with me, but the difference is only semantic. Let me clarify this briefly:

Time is nothing but our idea of describing occurrences of events; hence, it is dependent upon creation (occurrence of events) and if there is no creation, there is no time. We came up with a global rule that these many events are seconds or minutes, etc. So this is nothing but an idea is in our mind just like you have said. Time itself (seconds, minutes, years, days, etc.) is not a creation of Allah as it is a merely a concept used by us to describe occurrences of events. Therefore, the action/events' representation (minutes, seconds, etc. aka time) is not independent of us, neither it is a creation of Allah

The occurrences of events/actions of a thing X is not independent of X because if there is no X there will be no occurrences of events/actions of X. And it is simply a characteristic of X as you have stated. and we cannot say that they are two separate creations.​

Therefore, the difference is simply semantic. and Allah knows best

 

[love_quran]

Do yourself a huge favor....Do not worry about the answer to this question until you have entered Paradise. worrying yourself over it here will not help you and may even end up disturbing your peace.

I used to drive myself a bit nuts with this one. I actually think this may be one of those distracting traps Iblis uses to cause a whole lot of damage to people's faith in Allah. Do yourself a favor... try to be content with what you CAN learn from the Quran and Sunnahs. For that way can only strengthen your Faith and your peace.

 

[marwen]

Thanks a lot Brother "IslamicLife" for your clarification , now I can understand what you really meant, and I see that you're just speaking about our internal representation of "time" in our minds. In this case, you're right ! our own conception of time is not created by Allah, it's made by our minds. So I agree with you, and what made me seem of a different opinion is just because the semantic of word TIME : You used the word "Time" to refer to the human representation of time, but for me I don't know why, but the word "Time" inspires me a more general and absolute meaning.

Finally, I found that we have the same opinion but we were talking about tow different things.

So please excuse me if I mis-understood the post:hiding:, and as I said, I liked your ideas. :shade: and Allah knows best

P.S : perhaps we where a litle bit derailed from the main topic of this discussion (where did Allah come from ?) so may our brothers forgive us. And may be we open another discussion to deal with this TIME stuff

 

[marwen]

Thanks a lot Brother "IslamicLife" for your clarification , now I can understand what you really meant, and I see that you're just speaking about our internal representation of "time" in our minds. In this case, you're right ! our own conception of time is not created by Allah, it's made by our minds. So I agree with you, and what made me seem of a different opinion is just because the semantic of word TIME : You used the word "Time" to refer to the human representation of time, but for me I don't know why, but the word "Time" inspires me a more general and absolute meaning.

Finally, I found that we have the same opinion but we were talking about tow different things.

So please excuse me if I mis-understood the post:hiding:, and as I said, I liked your ideas. :shade:

And Allah knows best

P.S : perhaps we where a litle bit derailed from the main topic of this discussion (where did Allah come from ?) so may our brothers forgive us. And may be we open another discussion to deal with this TIME stuff

 

[MMohammed]

i HIGHLY agree with this which is written by Bani Hashim:

Allah did not come from anywhere. He created everything, so how can he come from anywhere? More importantly, Allah created time, so that humans can live in this world. Allah is above and beyond the constraints of this world or universe for that matter. That is all our brains are able to comprehend and need to know, InshAllah.

And I would like to add

Allah has declined to Ask these things too much.Just have a strong faith and thats all.This is brought to our minds by Setan for weakening our faith.Dont ask the questions like how the ancient people used to and they suffered a great torment from Allah; the creator of everything.

 

[MMohammed]

Yes.Its right.
Allah has created everything and he cannot from anywhere.
Everything means nothing was before him.
And its also in a quran.I CANT Recall the ayat.It's something like dont ask too much useless questions like how the people of old times did.They suffered the torment fo God.

When everything is told to you and you still make questions, it means that you are just irritating the people.Ofcourse, you can ask some useful questions or which make sense.

 

[MMohammed]

Yes.Its right.
Allah has created everything and he cannot from anywhere.
Everything means nothing was before him.
And its also in a quran.I CANT Recall the ayat.It's something like dont ask too much useless questions like how the people of old times did.They suffered the torment fo God.

When everything is told to you and you still make questions, it means that you are just irritating the people.Ofcourse, you can ask some useful questions or which make sense.

 

[gang4]

... time is not an actual creation of Allah; it is a merely concept that exists in our minds. We simply use it to describe the numbers of occurrence of events.

and indeed Allah knows best

Stephen Hawking's book "A Brief History of Time" I believe mentions about three different types of time...
* The thermodynamic arrow of time
* The psychological arrow of time
* I forgot the third one....it's been years since I've read the book...

Physics, logics etc can not even answer "How energy exists in the first place" since according to the conservative law of energy energy can not be created nor destroyed but merely transformable into another forms.

To the poster,
"Where...come from?" indicates sequence of events in the space-time dimension (Newtonian world)....in Quantum level, rules found in the Newtonian world breaks down. For example,
* It is a fact, if we know the position and momentum of earth rotating the sun relatively and respectively then we can determine earth future-position. You have Pauli exclusion in the quantum level. one or the other but not both position and momentum of particle.

* In Newtonian World, We have Hiroshima - bombed - aftermath in this sequences (in accordance to causality law)... in quantum level, effect-cause in this order sometimes shows up...

The rules found in the creation/space-time dimension CAN NOT BE APPLIED TO THE CREATOR....

We need also to be careful to the rule of engagement...

2x3+5-4/2=....?

Using the rule of operational hierarchy....
((2x3)+5)-(4/2)=9

but, if we use the rule from left-to-right operand, the answer is 7/2.
Luckily for us, There is a clear cut engagement rule in Arithmetic which one leads to the right answer n which is the wrong answer...

But to blindly applying the rule in Newtonian world to our CREATOR is leading to speculations n open the door of evils...

Many of us (at least I) are lousy in Grammar, hate Calculus, how many of us really understand Riemann curvature tensor (I don't)... and those are part of creations we can question n study.

As to Our Creator, if HE WILLS us to know then that is enough for us.

In the name of Allah, Most Merciful, Most Kind.
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute (as-Samad)*;
He begets not, nor is He begotten;**
And there is nothing like Him.

 

[Muhammad]

Q. I tell non-muslims that Allah created everything in this universe. They say to me who created Allah ? How can Allah have been there since the beginning ? ​

How can i answer them ?​

A. Praise be to Allaah.​

This question which the Kuffaar have asked you is inherently false and self-contradictory. If we were to say – for the sake of argument – that someone created Allaah, then they would ask you, Who created the creator of the creator? Then, who created the creator of the creator of the creator?! And so on, ad infinitum. This is irrational and impossible.​

All of creation goes back to the Creator Who created all things. No one created Him; He created everything other than Himself. This is what makes sense and is logical. This creator is Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted.

With regard to what our religion tells us, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us about this question, where it comes from, and how to respond to it.​

Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “People will keep on asking question until someone will say, ‘Allaah created the universe, but who created Allaah?’ Whoever encounters anything like that, let him say, ‘Amantu Billaah (I believe in Allaah).’”​

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Shaytaan will come to one of you and say, ‘Who created the heaven? Who created the earth?’ He will say, ‘Allaah’” – then he mentioned something similar (to the previous report), and added, “And His Messengers.” [i.e., amantu Billaah wa Rusulihi = I believe in Allaah and His Messengers]​

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Shaytaan will come to one of you and say, ‘Who created such and such?’ until he says to him, ‘Who created your Lord?’ When it reaches that stage, let him seek refuge with Allaah [say A’oodhu Billaahi min ash-shaytaan ir-rajeem = I seek refuge with Allaah from the accursed Shaytaan] and stop thinking about it.”​

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Shaytaan will come to a person and say, ‘Who created such and such…’” and he narrated the whole report. (Imaam Muslim, 134).​

In these ahaadeeth we see:

- Where this question comes from – from the Shaytaan;

- How to deal with it, which is:

• to stop pursuing these thoughts and these tricks of the Shaytaan​

• to say, “I believe in Allaah and His Messengers”​

• to seek refuge with Allaah from the Shaytaan.​

It was also reported that one should spit drily three times to one’s left, and recite Qul Huwa Allaahu ahad.

(See "Problems and Solutions" in the Shaykh’s Books section of this website).



3. With regard to the prior existence of Allaah, our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has told us about this, for example:

He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O Allaah, You are the First and there is nothing before You; O Allaah, You are the Last and there is nothing after You.” (Narrated by Muslim, 2713)​

He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah existed when there was nothing apart from Him.” According to another report: “There was nothing before Him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari; the first report 3020; the second report 6982).​

This is in addition to what is stated in the aayaat of the Qur’aan. The believer believes without a doubt, the kaafir denies and the munaafiq doubts. We ask Allaah to grant us sincere and certain faith with no doubts. And Allaah is the Source of strength.


Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid