Obama announces massive troop surge

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shockOFthunder

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Read it here.

My thoughts? Ridiculous. I really don't like this. Most of the people I know as well opposed this. They are fighting another Vietnam which they cannot win.

It's not the place of the west to intervene in other country's affairs, and I say that even while I'm living in the west.
 
Um. You left out a rather important part of the story.

He also announced a withdrawal date.

I don't want America fighting in Afghanistan either. But we are there right now and we can't magically just transport all of our troops out. And no matter how much you oppose the war, you can't ignore the fact that if we pull out and leave a political vacuum, the country will fall into civil war and a lot of people will die.

Do you think that the Taliban is going to kill a lot of people in the areas they will take over? Then you have to at least admit there is a place for an American presence, until the Taliban can be pushed back. As long as Obama and McChrystal are actually serious about not killing civilians and limiting air strikes—and as long as we will pull out in a year and a half—I don't really see the moral hazard here. It seems like the least of all possible evils.
 
What worries me is that they have set a pull out date. They have pretty much told the Taliban that if they survive X amount of days then they will not have to deal with the US any more, at least not unless Obama goes back on his word. Either way it is a PR problem for the US when it has to pull out.

If they had set this pull out date in private, then I could understand it, but to announce publicly when that date is is a huge strategic error in my opinion.
 
As if the pull out will be easy. And what the hell? America is the one dividing us, so who to blame when there is a civil war?

I agree with shockOFthunder, and they will just be wasting money and lives.
 
shockOFthunder said:
Read it here.

My thoughts? Ridiculous. I really don't like this. Most of the people I know as well opposed this. They are fighting another Vietnam which they cannot win.
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Perhaps. On the other hand, the same was said about Iraq not even two years ago. Yet, it looks like Iraq is doing well enough for Americans to leave over the coming year.

It's not the place of the west to intervene in other country's affairs, and I say that even while I'm living in the west.
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There are some people there who declared war on the US. That triggered US intervention in the Afghan civil war.
 
Whether America leaves now or in a year and half does not make any difference. Taliban will still be there.
 
I can see where Obama is coming from. Let's the finish the job as fast as we can. Let's try and at least partially complete the job, and even if we don't get all the *******s, we've at least taught them a lesson or two about what perpetuating terrorism can lead to. And then we can leave, and hopefully the Afghan Police and Army will have just enough power to stop everyone killiing each other. Just. This is one last push, one last try, one last effort. And at least American troops will be going to Helmand Province to aid British efforts there. Hopefully a few offenses against the Taliban can happen faster with their help.
 
They are fighting another Vietnam which they cannot win.
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I wouldn't put it like that, it isn't that bad. More Americans died in a week in Vietnam than they have in eight years in Afghanistan. The Taliban certainly ain't no Viet Cong, that's for sure.
 
But it is bad, just look at the amount of muslims in particular that have been killed. And surely its even worse to attack countries that can't even fight back?

And taliban this and taliban that. I bet most of these men who are being killed are sincere muslims fighting against opposition. You have a bunch of terrorists, but justifying killing all those muslim fighters with that is stupid.

May Allah guide as all. The US, Britain, Italy, Germany, Turkey and the rest haven't accomplished anything much other than kicking saddam and causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands. And sending hundreds of thousands of more troops to these places isn't going to help much, may be just kill some more people. But remember, for everyone person killed, there'll be more people looking revenge, like family and friends.
 
What bothers me more than anything is that in Dec 2001 they were gonna go get Bin Laden but they decided NOT to send additional back up near the mountains of Tora Bora!

Perhaps, maybe, Bush let him get away so he has a reason to keep staying there. That's a hunch of mine.

Either way, while I do agree with Obama that "this is the epicenter of violent extremism", which is VERY true, I think the Americans should be more focused on themselves rather than the affairs of the Afghans. Children are standing in bread lines just to help feed their families and Obama doesn't give a rat's tail about that.
 
mahi said:
But it is bad, just look at the amount of muslims in particular that have been killed. And surely its even worse to attack countries that can't even fight back?

And taliban this and taliban that. I bet most of these men who are being killed are sincere muslims fighting against opposition. You have a bunch of terrorists, but justifying killing all those muslim fighters with that is stupid.

May Allah guide as all. The US, Britain, Italy, Germany, Turkey and the rest haven't accomplished anything much other than kicking saddam and causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands. And sending hundreds of thousands of more troops to these places isn't going to help much, may be just kill some more people. But remember, for everyone person killed, there'll be more people looking revenge, like family and friends.
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You realise we're talking about Afghanistan, not Iraq, right?
 
Supreme said:
I can see where Obama is coming from. Let's the finish the job as fast as we can. Let's try and at least partially complete the job, and even if we don't get all the *******s, we've at least taught them a lesson or two about what perpetuating terrorism can lead to. And then we can leave, and hopefully the Afghan Police and Army will have just enough power to stop everyone killiing each other. Just. This is one last push, one last try, one last effort. And at least American troops will be going to Helmand Province to aid British efforts there. Hopefully a few offenses against the Taliban can happen faster with their help.
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I am totally against the War in Afghanistan. We are not even trying to win. It is useless.

The current Government of Afghanistan is the Taliban-lite. They are much closer to the Taliban than to the United States and Western world. Our troops are dying for absolutely nothing.

Lets get the Troops out and then outlaw Afghanistan. Do not let anyone from Afghanistan enter the U.S., nor anyone who goes to Afghanistan visit the U.S..

That policy is much better than our boys coming home in boxes. Much better than slaughtering Afghans and Pakistanis.

If the U.S. were in Afghanistan defending a Western style government. Then my opinion would be different. But, we are defending a government that will execute someone if they change their religion. That is what our troops are dying for.

It is quite amazing.
 
Ar-RaYYan said:
Whether America leaves now or in a year and half does not make any difference. Taliban will still be there.
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Yup, I agree with that.

They will never win the Afghan war, so sending in more troops is just wasting more lives - Very sad indeed :(
 
titus said:
What worries me is that they have set a pull out date. They have pretty much told the Taliban that if they survive X amount of days then they will not have to deal with the US any more, at least not unless Obama goes back on his word. Either way it is a PR problem for the US when it has to pull out.

If they had set this pull out date in private, then I could understand it, but to announce publicly when that date is is a huge strategic error in my opinion.
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Militarily it is poor strategy, but from a political strategy it is genius. On the domestic scene it puts Obama in a win-win situation, he can't loose. If all goes as he says, he ends up a super hero with an almost guaranteed win for reelection. If he goes back on his word or for some other reason he does not pull out on the announced debt, he can blame it on escalation of activity by the Taliban, petition for and probably be granted war-time powers, which may be what he really wants.
 
I think it is poor military and political strategy. He is trying to play both sides of the fence. He is trying to make the domestic scene happy by giving a pull out date, but send fear to the Taliban by sending more troops.

The problem is that domestically all those that want out of Afghanistan hear is that we are sending more troops, and the Taliban is saying that Obama has the watch and they have the time. His win/win just became a lose/lose.
 
titus said:
I think it is poor military and political strategy. He is trying to play both sides of the fence. He is trying to make the domestic scene happy by giving a pull out date, but send fear to the Taliban by sending more troops.

The problem is that domestically all those that want out of Afghanistan hear is that we are sending more troops, and the Taliban is saying that Obama has the watch and they have the time. His win/win just became a lose/lose.
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I didn't look at that view. I believe I will agree with you on that, I must have been wearing Obama's eyeglasses when I posted.
 

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