BBC news website asks users: 'Should homosexuals face execution?'

format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow

Well does the Bible approve of Homosexuality? I assume Christians believe the Bible is the word of God.

Most christians doesnt care, as for them it's ok to break christian laws, while the only true and unchangable religion is the religion of human rights. For them it's ok to doubt in almost every christian theological concept, while it's impossible to doubt in liberalism and human rights. John Locke, Wolter and Rousseau are more important for them than God, Christ and commandments.

format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85

Most christians doesnt care, as for them it's ok to break christian laws, while the only true and unchangable religion is the religion of human rights. For them it's ok to doubt in almost every christian theological concept, while it's impossible to doubt in liberalism and human rights. John Locke, Wolter and Rousseau are more important for them than God, Christ and commandments.

Hmmm

I'm curious, when did Christians have began to become more liberal? Is it due to secularism, materialism, democracy, when in America decided to seperate the state and the church or due to different views among the sects?

Does Christianity have a political structure?

format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow

Hmmm

I'm curious, when did Christians have began to become more liberal? Is it due to secularism, materialism, democracy, when in America decided to seperate the state and the church or due to different views among the sects?

Does Christianity have a political structure?

Well, the United States Constitution is built around Biblical principles, and all of the founding fathers were pretty much Christians.

But nowadays, America as a whole has been regressively turning her back on God. This country used to be a collectively God fearing and honoring society, but everything has been pretty much going down hill since about the end of World War II.

Whether it's taking prayer out of the schools, not displaying the Ten Commandments, the legalizing of abortion, and pretty much everything else that goes against the Biblical roots on which this country was founded. And God will judge America for this, in fact we are already experiencing God's judgement to a degree, but it is going to get much worse. All you have to do is look in the Old Testament to the many instances when the people of Israel turned their backs on God and he chastened them sore until their hearts were turned back to him.

Yet to be honest I don't think America will rise from the ashes after we experience the fullness of God's judgement like the Israelites, as we are pretty much ten minutes to midnight for the conclusion of this age, and the ushering in of the thousand year reign of Christ.

format_quote Originally Posted by Fedos

Well, the United States Constitution is built around Biblical principles, and all of the founding fathers were pretty much Christians.

But nowadays, America as a whole has been regressively turning her back on God. This country used to be a collectively God fearing and honoring society, but everything has been pretty much going down hill since about the end of World War II.

Whether it's taking prayer out of the schools, not displaying the Ten Commandments, the legalizing of abortion, and pretty much everything else that goes against the Biblical roots on which this country was founded. And God will judge America for this, in fact we are already experiencing God's judgement to a degree, but it is going to get much worse. All you have to do is look in the Old Testament to the many instances when the people of Israel turned their backs on God and he chastened them sore until their hearts were turned back to him.

Yet to be honest I don't think America will rise from the ashes after we experience the fullness of God's judgement like the Israelites, as we are pretty much ten minutes to midnight for the conclusion of this age, and the ushering in of the thousand year reign of Christ.

Interesting...thanks for that sharing that. I'm sensing a similar patterns for Muslims too.

format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme

No, we believe Jesus to be the Word of God, the Bible is simply a divinely inspired text; however, we must remember that much of the Bible was written for a small Jewish tribe facing persecution at the hands of every race in the Middle East, and not intended for the world's largest religion. Jesus never mentions the subject, but seeing as Jesus is just about the most moral person in history, I can't see Him shouting in demonstrations with huge 'Kill all the Gays' banners.

Well apparently other Christians don't share the same view here, where did they get the idea of not approving homosexuals?

Shoulda woulda coulda... mate, I don't want to live in the past, we develop as a human race, we evolve, it's social science.

I would not say we evolve...our culture is drowned in materialism...

Maybe in your church mate.

Speak for yourself, and also, God punishes people... by not allowing Himself to be worshipped in church? Wait, what?

Well the above just proved what I thought, there is a huge variety of views within Christian faith.

Either Christians are not following the Bible correctly or choosing what they want to believe and denying what the Bible states itself.

format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme

I would say we've evolved... we've come a long way since the isolated tribes of millenia ago, and every day we're evolving. Social science is not my strong point, but I'm fairly certiain we've come a long way as a race.

In terms of technology and medical science yes we have progressed, we also used technology to cause destruction, harm the environment and made nuclear weapons. Consumerism is a major problem I believe in many countries. Even the media though it can spread information very quickly it can also be used to spread false deceptive information to the public and brainwashing in some cases...

It is not difficult to workout if you sit back and watch what happens around the world.

You're never going to get two billion minds thinking identically. I'd have thought getting two minds to think identically would be a chore.

Thats true.

Apart from the obvious, there's no set in stone way to follow the Bible. Hence, why there are so many Christiand denominations out there, each with their own interpretations.

Hmmm....if interpretations vary amongst your other fellow Christians how do you decide which is the true interpretation? I mean there has to be an agreement correct on some of the issues? I see this has the Church dividing rather than uniting.

Even Islam has divided due to Muslims who have their own selfish agendas.

format_quote Originally Posted by ummzayd

A cursory reading of the Old Testament reveals the Israelites of old to be an incredibly blood-thirsty lot who never left their neighbors alone, forever going into other people's territories and slaughtering everyone (except the little girls whom God suposedly told them to 'save for yourselves').

The tribe of Judah was actually just one tribe among many, and they turned their murderous hatred on each other as well.

Read your bible. Please.

well said ummzayd.

A sin any sin mentioned is a conscious act that the individual wills to happen, and is a transgression against God and his commandments. Thus, I can't be made to understand how being born with freckles for instance is akin to sodomizing and then advertising? can you draw any similarities? I think the problem with loss of morals is that there is no baseline .. no difference for instance between being a dignified human or a lawless animal, no difference between hard work or leeching off others by force because of power or a sense of entitlement, between a family unit and break association, between good or bad.. and that is what the new world order is after..skewed morals of why is this ok and this isn't..

I have no problems people committing sins on their private time, but the whole will not be made to suffer the debauchery of a few and their supporters!

[QUOTE=Supreme;1264041]

Jesus never mentions the subject, but seeing as Jesus is just about the most moral person in history, I can't see Him shouting in demonstrations with huge 'Kill all the Gays' banners.

So tell me You think that there is no problem that some protestant "churches" bless gay "marriages"?
The attitude of Creator about gays and lesbians is very clear, expressed many times in Bible, You think that Creator changed His mind?

Shoulda woulda coulda... mate, I don't want to live in the past, we develop as a human race, we evolve, it's social science.

Yeah, we developped, especially when I look at my own nation and western nations, with withh all those social ilnesses, its clear how we "developped".

Maybe in your church mate.

Not, but You can't deny that many christians see Jesus Christ as the hippie from "Jesus Christ Superstar" movie, with sign of anarchy, always smiling guy who plays a guitar.

Speak for yourself, and also, God punishes people... by not allowing Himself to be worshipped in church? Wait, what?

Some people too easily use the word "church". I am catholic and I dont think that every building used by "church" created last week by some John, Robert or Bill should be called as church.
Moreover, a "church" where gay or lesbian couples as blessed, where their sin is accepted, becomes rather a synagoga satanae.

The problem with today's christianity is the alliance with modern world and society. In past the Church changed people, now the people change churches. The people think that sodomy is ok, so the "church" changes its views not to be seen as medival fossil. The same with abortion, the feminists made some "churches" think that the kill of an unborn baby is the "right" of a woman. The radical ecology movement made some churches think that the biggest problem of nowadays world is global warming.

What are other medival fossils still defended by churches? Physical purity before marriage, one undivided marriage, marriage faithfulness.
What else we must change to be accepted as modern?

You say that it's no problem what two adults do in their bedrooms, but as a christian Your duty is to tell them - Your act is evil, bad for you people, it will destroy your lives.
You should say it not because of your homophobia, but because of Your love to the people.

The problem is that modern popculture (rather counter culture) lies to the homosexuals and lesbians that this kind of sex is alright. The popculture also says - Adultery is ok, our own needs are more important than faithfulness and family. The popculture says - Your own good is more important than anything, than our children. Human replaced God, human became new God.

The sad thing is that many modern "churches" say the same what popculture says, those "churches" change Creator's unchangeable and eternal opinions about human nature just to please modern people, who are controlled by their sexual desires.

(Quran 4:15):And those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

Quran:4:16:If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

[QUOTE=Skavau;1265367]

This statement is a disgrace. Why should people not of your faith be held accountable to it? The above is an absolute green light to totalitarianism. It is impossible now because of the well-battled importance of secularism.

For the common good, catholic values are good not only for catholics but also for atheists and agnostics.

Have you read the Treaty Of Tripoli? Can you tell me what beliefs Thomas Jefferson had? In fact, can you even name me anything in the Constitution that is wholly based on Biblical principles?

USA was built on enlightment, protestant and masonic fundaments. I dont know how for other but for me catholic, american stand for religion is an anarchy.

Why does this surprise you? It does not surprise me in the slightest. It is simply how what I will call 'divine bigotry' is not compatible in modern life

.

If modern life mean killing unborn children, killing ill born children (in Holland for example), killing old people by euthanasia, allowing the existence of paedophile political party (in Holland), men and women controlled by their sexual desires like animals, so I prefer to stay with my Medival values.

It absolutely is none of your business what two consenting adults do in their own bedroom. You are free to consider homosexuality reprehensible and choose your company in accordance with this. You are free to hold contempt for adultery and do likewise. You are not free to prohibit others on this basis.

Oh really, so what if I wanted to keep a slave, would it also be my own buisness? Why You want to force the abolition of slavery on me?
Like it or not, but christian, jewish and islamic values are fundaments of human rights.

Do you live in a Western secular state, might I inquire? You seem awfully contemptible about it if so. Can I ask where you might prefer to live?

Unfortunately I live in secular state, but with God's will not for long. We conservatives count time in centuries.
The ideal state is the social reign of Christ the King.

format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85

For the common good, catholic values are good not only for catholics but also for atheists and agnostics.

Sorry, I don't want a part of it. Feel free to be sanctimonious about your values and their importance in your life. Don't tell me I have to observe them or recognise them. And kindly do not tell homosexuals that they have to change their lifestyle to accommodate this creed.

format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85

USA was built on enlightment, protestant and masonic fundaments. I dont know how for other but for me catholic, american stand for religion is an anarchy.

The Enlightenment was a wholly leaning secular revolution. America is a secular state. It does not stand for any religion and indeed that ought to remain.

format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85

If modern life mean killing unborn children, killing ill born children (in Holland for example), killing old people by euthanasia, allowing the existence of paedophile political party (in Holland), men and women controlled by their sexual desires like animals, so I prefer to stay with my Medival values.

Proudly marching back into the 19th century. That statement stands entirely true.

Irrespectively of assisted suicide, please do not smear the reasoning and held and invoked by those who 'advocate' it. Euthanasia proponents advocate it based on compassion and empathy for those who suffer from long drawn out terminal illnesses and a respect for their desire to end their life on their own terms, with as limited suffering as possible. The same is of abortion.

Who exactly is controlled by their sexual desires? And when has this ever been otherwise if argued so?

format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85

Oh really, so what if I wanted to keep a slave, would it also be my own buisness? Why You want to force the abolition of slavery on me?

Do you know nothing of human rights? Keeping a slave is the slave's business. You are intruding on another human being's freedom. This has absolutely nothing to do with homosexual intercourse or adultery where all participants are consensual. If you want to make your analogy work, then you would have to ask if there was a problem with you having a servant that consensually assists you for free? The answer in that instance indeed would be no.

format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85

Like it or not, but christian, jewish and islamic values are fundaments of human rights.

Give me some examples of human rights that can only be affirmed as a Jew, Muslim or a Christian.

format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85

Unfortunately I live in secular state, but with God's will not for long. We conservatives count time in centuries.
The ideal state is the social reign of Christ the King.

You believe that the population of nation-states have no specific right to anything and that some divine arbiter ought to reign supreme over all. This is fascism and one of a theocratic leaning. You believe that you, based on divine 'obligation' have the right to interfere in the personal lives of others and tell them that they must appreciate and observe your standards.

It is abhorrent, disgraceful and inhumane. I suspect you would not appreciate living under Islamic rule yourself.

format_quote Originally Posted by Skavau

The Enlightenment was a wholly leaning secular revolution. America is a secular state. It does not stand for any religion and indeed that ought to remain.

Why not? This is democracy, people are allowed to express their views whether you like it or not. If one day the majority voted for a religious state, I wonder how some secularists would react.