Blasts at Sufi Shrine in Pakistan Kill at Least 35

salaam

what about Karamat?

format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist

Exactly. So where are all the magical powers of the Sufi saints ... why dont they protect their devotees! I want the millions of illiterate Pakistanis to get rid of this superstitious myth which makes the deviant clerical leechs rich and rich when they organize such events where millions of people show up due to their ignorance. ... I want these illiterate Pakistanis to question the clerical leeches who are sucking them into this hell-hole of superstition, quackery, magic, and delusion .

And do yo think these illiterate Pakistanis are here...reading your warning?

Afterall, they are illiterate Pakistanis, pretty amazing if they can use the computer I tell ya.

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106

And do yo think these illiterate Pakistanis are here...reading your warning?

Afterall, they are illiterate Pakistanis, pretty amazing if they can use the computer I tell ya.

salaam

LOL good one.

peace

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106

And do yo think these illiterate Pakistanis are here...reading your warning?

Afterall, they are illiterate Pakistanis, pretty amazing if they can use the computer I tell ya.

Whether they are here or not, I'd like to make my point clear. Whether they are reading it or not. Someone from their family might be literate. He might read this and then explain to his parents. NO?

I know many members here whose parents do that kind of stuff. I wont name names. These members are sick n tired of their parents doing this kind of stuff. Perhaps these members might read something from here and explain to their parents? So you want their misguidance?

But hey, you are really being irrational and cocky at this point now. Trying to refute the reasons I am doing this by clutching onto a straw?

format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran

salaam

what about Karamat?

what is this karamaat? Ooh, that voltage mullah things. A big LOL.

format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist

what is this karamaat? Ooh, that voltage mullah things. A big LOL.

salaam

well maybe if you did do some research before asserting things might help you answer your question. Your quite arrogant.

peace

format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist

Whether they are here or not, I'd like to make my point clear. Whether they are reading it or not. Someone from their family might be literate. He might read this and then explain to his parents. NO?

I know many members here whose parents do that kind of stuff. I wont name names. These members are sick n tired of their parents doing this kind of stuff. Perhaps these members might read something from here and explain to their parents? So you want their misguidance?

But hey, you are really being irrational and cocky at this point now. Trying to refute the reasons I am doing this by clutching onto a straw?

And you think these members dont know this without you telling them? You think these members are not smart enough to tell the parents about such news which probably widespread in their country?

Hey I am not the one that came here gloating that fact that these people died. And like someone already told you, how do you know these people were committing shirk?

You are pretty insensitive. Hence: the strong reaction you received not by me at all.

format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran

salaam

well maybe if you did do some research before asserting things might help you answer your question. Your quite arrogant.

peace

ive heard that couple of times from people who have no answer to my questions. my friends never told me that though so I believe I am not arrogant. so Id take your comment with "a grain of salt."

format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist

ive heard that couple of times from people whom I am trying to refute. my friends never told me that though. so Id take your comment with "a grain of salt."

salaam

It seems you like refuting a lot of people, the amount of negative replies you got from this forum says a lot. Have you even actaully refuted anything so far.

peace

mad_scientist. What kinda question are you asking! Those people could not even help themselves under the graves so how can they stop such activities. Your question is pointless...THEY ARE DEAD they cant stop anything or do any karamat. karamats are performed by some mischievous Jinn.

format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran

salaam

It seems you like refuting a lot of people, the amount of negative replies you got from this forum says a lot. Have you even actaully refuted anything so far.

peace

I like the negativity and hostility towards me. Surprising to see it coming from Muslims, eh.

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106

And you think these members dont know this without you telling them? You think these members are not smart enough to tell the parents about such news which probably widespread in their country?

Hey I am not the one that came here gloating that fact that these people died. And like someone already told you, how do you know these people were committing shirk?

You are pretty insensitive. Hence: the strong reaction you received not by me at all.

who was gloating? I believe that we will die when Allah will say so.

But I was saying that these people died while committing sin and bidah by visiting the grave as part of anniversary. May Allah give us a better death. remember the guy whom Sahaaba used to think was a best muslim. But do you know how he died? he committed suicide in battlefield.

I dont think I was being negative towards you at all. In fact I was responding how you often respond to people.

May I should place a pictures of roses and heart to make my comment seem a little nicer. Anyways you received the answer to your question right?

And I am glad you condemn this attack and think it is wrong. I don’t anyone can ask any more of you. You made that clear.

Btw I don’t dislike you at all.

format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist

who was gloating? I believe that we will die when Allah will say so.

But I was saying that these people died while committing sin and bidah by visiting the grave as part of anniversary. May Allah give us a better death. remember the guy whom Sahaaba used to think was a best muslim. But do you know how he died? he committed suicide in battlefield.

Okay maybe you were not gloating but you appear to be gloating. Anyways I agree with everything you said, but you and I have no right to judge such people though. Are we not allowed to visit grave at anytime, I did not know that was sin?

format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106

I dont think I was being negative towards you at all. In fact I was responding how you often respond to people.

May I should place a pictures of roses and heart to make my comment seem a little nicer. Anyways you received the answer to your question right?

And I am glad you condemn this attack and think it is wrong. I don’t anyone can ask any more of you. You made that clear.

Btw I don’t dislike you at all.

hey thanks for that. We are still brothers and sisters in Islam, differences aside. I am off to sleep, inshAllah.

wsalam

format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist

ive heard that couple of times from people who have no answer to my questions. my friends never told me that though so I believe I am not arrogant. so Id take your comment with "a grain of salt."

salaam

so first you hear this from people that you refute now its people that have no answer to your questions? which one is it? you have to be right one way or another.

peace

Unfortunately I have relatives who visit these shrines and call upon these dead saints. Some even go as far as to prostrate to them, they believe these dead saints can help them in all their affairs because they are the real friends of Allah. They make Dua to these dead saints and ask them for wordly things, I asked them why they do this and they say "this dead saints are the friends of allah, if we ask them we will get what we want because we are to inpure/sinful to ask Allah directly so we have more chance of getting what we want by going through these saints"

And they go there and leave offerings for the saints. This is why it is forbidden to make shrines over graves, the prophet forbade it if I'm not mistaken for this very reason, the fact that people would take them as places of worship.

I've tried to educate them but to no avail, I even told them this is what the mushrikeen of Makkah would say "we use these idols as intercessors between us and Allah as we are too inpure to approach Allah directly" but they still continue

Assalam O Alikum wa rahmatulahi wa baraktuhu,

First and foremost , what ever happened in lahore it was wrong , unislamic , those who commited were murderous thugs who will be InshahAllah taken to account for what they did on the day of judgement , Killing human beings , civilian muslims or NON MUSLIMS is all forbidden in our religion, its sad that in pakistan such acts are carried out in the name of jihaad or other reasons but regardless of the reason such acts are PROHIBITTED its a shame the famous online scholar anwar al awlaki has recently declared that its premissible to kill amerian civilians , hope his new video opens the eyes of the countless youth that follwo him just coz he can speak english fluently and they have absolutely no one to listen to besides him and he has some nice lectures and series about lifes of prophets n companions , regardless he has changed and has deviated from the right path and is a caller for murder and mischief in the land so MAY ALLAH save our youth in the west from his misguidance. But back to the point in Islam we cannot kill civilians , muslims or non muslims under any circumstances, so what happened in lahore was indeed a crime against humanity , a crime hated by Allah , fassad in the earth and mischief, may Allah save us all.

Here i think brother mad scientist propbably started the wrong discussion at the wrong time , remmebr that even reminder only helps if did at the right time and in the right way , u do not think for one second brother that coz of your harsh comments some of the brevlis will EVER come to sunnah and the right way and leave off the innovations and shirk n all , rather it will drive them more and further away from the sunnah and people of sunnah.

Allah says is surah al aala, فذكر ان نفعت الذكرى

So it was propably the wrong place to start a discussion about the brelvis and shrines and all , first things first , first we have to acknowledge that the act carried out would be FORBIDDEN and PROHIBITED even if it was carried out in taj mahal hotel in india or even in a hindu temple , even though it was carried out in a shire in a muslim land , in all ways such acts are haram like i said even on hindu temples let alone shrines , and even though shrines have no place or legislation what so ever in Islam , coz remmember brothers n sisters , that the ONLY AUTHORITIES that legislate something in islam is Allah and his messneger , so if Allah did not inform us of shrines and all that happens at them and his messneger did not inform us f shrines and what happens in them and to do with the graves what is being done by the sufis than there is no place what so ever in islam for shrines , no matter how Pious and righteous those who lay underneath them are. They are actually free fromwhat people do at these shrines and in here after they will free them selfes from such people.

But before i get into that further i say it over and over and over again at this forum and others , the Brothers and Sisters we HAVE A PROBLEM!

WE HAVE ON OUR HANDS A PROBELM THAT NEEDS OUR UTMOST ATTENTION !!

It is the problem of extremism , its the problem of taking matters in ones own hands , its the problem of dong jihaad while not even knowing how to do jihaad , its the Anger , the hate , the extreme thought is out there in the muslim lands n inthe muslim communities , its time to ACKNOWLEDGE THE PROBLEM , and come out of denial and STOP manking hundreds of thousands of excuses for all sort of terrorist activities all over the world and blame the west for it or prptect and find excuses for those who are involved in it and take their backs , its time to find a solution , and TEACH , and EDUCATE , and Help teh communities in eradicating these thoughts , theses ideologies , these methodoligies , by Allah they are present amongst us , adnd they are Unislamic in every sense n in every way and it is doing MUCH harm to islam and muslims.

So i invite you to please join those who have been fighting it for decades, those who have been warning , those who have been teaching and speaking out , those who have been trying to explain and educate. The imams of sunnah , and the great scholars have been warning for decades now but the problem is we are distant from the scholars.

so i ask you to read , to know , to help your self and others stay away from these thoughts and these ideologies

www.islamagainstextremism.com http://www.answering-extremism.com www.takfiris.com


So in no way is the attakcs of this shrine justified in Islam , nor are the attacks on churches or temples or ahmadis or anyother religion.
It is all Murder and may Allah save us and protect us all.


Now as far as shrines go and all the talk about shirk n all , i want to ask my brothers n sisters who follwo the sufi way , or were born in sufi families , or are brelvis to please read , take time to read , remmber the first verse , rather the first word that our lord revealed to our dear prophet muhammad sala lahu alihi wa sallam was IQRA! READ ! so brothers n sisters , it is no secret that our Ummah will split into 73 sects we were told by the one who does not speak out of his desires rather whenever he speaks it a revelation revealed , he is the truthful sala lahu alihi wa sallam , he informed us that there will be sects and ALL of them will be in fire except ONE , the one that will be upon WHAT THE PROPHET SALA LAHU ALIHI WA SALLAM AND HIS COMPANIONS WERE UPON AT THE TIME THIS HADEETH WAS SAID BY THE PROPHET.

so do u for one second think that they were upon the modern day sufism?? do u think they were upon shrines?? didnt Hamzza the leader oب martyrs die and the prohets heart was broken and he led 70 janazahs for him , well where is his shirne? and how did the prophet and his companions deal with hamzas shrine after he was martyred ?? how many times the sahaba , the tabieen , those who follwoed the tabieen went to hamzas shrine for help or to ask Allah for help at a shrine? how many times did the sahaba go to th grave of the prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam in a manner that WE NOW go to these shrines of those who are FAR les in rank than the prophet sala lahu alihiw a salam??

oh! didnt khadeejah die radi allahu anha ? didnt prophets daughters die in his life and his sons? didnt his beloved sahaba die? on and off the battle field? didnt and didnt people much higher in ranks than the righetous people of the subcontinent die in the past and there was no shrien what soe ever for them or a need for one, rather the prophet FORBADE such actions and on the conquest of Makkah asked for the idols to be bestroyed , pictures destroyed and graves broken down and brought down to ground? wasnt there a wisdom behind the graves being destroyed?

And yes i knwo alllllll the evidences and proofs that they bring, yes now a days every caller when he calls upon his way or the way he is upon he has some verses from quran that he uses as evidence , he has his ahadeeth taht he uses as evidence and proof, leave muslism even christians , how many times do we have debates where the muslim "apparently" loses so does it mean that the person he was having a debate is on teh right religion? just coz people can bring proofs and twist and turn texts and make a good point does not prove something to be right or wonrg Rtaher the haqq the truth remains the truth and back to the point when u bring those ayaat , those proofs we ask WHOSE UNDERSTANDING IS IT?

who from the past understood this certain ayah or this certain hadeeth in a way that U now understand it and use it ??

These ayaat and ahadeeth were presnet , i mean forget that the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam himself was present amongst the companions and tyhey did not understand these ayaat and ahadeeth and the religion in a manner that U understood it and apply it.

So when we are out there to understand the deen , the aqeedah , the manhaj we have to go back to the underatsnding of the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam and his companions and after that those who follwoed them from the tabieen and taba tabieen, the first three generations, THAT IS THE right UNDERSTANDING , that si the deen on which we should be upon , that is the way of succes , that is the way of salvation.

So i call upon all the brothers and sisters who were born in sufi families to Read , to see what the diffrences are , why do some people consider the things that u consdier right to be wrong ? What is their proof ? what is the proof and evidence of what you are upon ? who else from the past and the first three generations was upon what u are upon? and what is the other side of the story ? what are these people that claim to be on sunnah upon? if they consider it shirk well what is the proof of their manhaj their way tehir understanding? what boosk ar ethey reading and where do they get their deen from? what is their aqeedah and again what is the source of their aqeedah? does it trace back to the sahaba and best generations?

Read , read the books , ask ? investigate unbaised sources, and InshahAllaj whom so ever Allah wants to guide will be guided.


U can read books like the three fundamental principles

The book of tahweeh

The four principles

U can read books of aqeedah

and if u want u can read the books of refutations of diffrent sects , u can read the books of ehsan elahi zaheer like al barailwiyah and others.

most of all you can read the translation of the quraan , but then again it has to be something unbaised , something un altered and tampered with , something not belonging to a particular sect coz ur language is not arabic u will be trusting the translator and like in the book kanz ul emaan the trabslator will clearly change the line from surah al kahf " I am a human just like you " to " i am APPARENTLY a human just like u"( in reality i am not i am noor and not bashar) so u have to get your knowledge , u have to do your research , see what u are upona nd what the others are uponand WHY do they consider it shirk or innovation or misguidance.


May Allah bless you all and may Allah guide us all to the way o fthe sahaba , the tabieen and those who followed them.