Recently there has been a series of suicide attacks done by the Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan. These acts are condemned since muslims died in the attack. Regarding the suicide bombing issue, some scholars say its haraam, and some scholars say its allowed as the last solution. With regars to the afghan taliban, they may to some things wrong, but remember at the end of the day we want an islamic afghan state, not a democratic afghan state.
So we must remember that eventhough the taliban can do wrong things, they are the only ones at the moment trying to establish an islamic state.
Two wrongs don’t make right. I do agree the western media really don’t bother mentioning Afghans names unless they have been a victim of Taliban like the girl in the times. It was her dad but she said it was due to the “Taliban”. Allah (swt) knows best
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
this is interesting. i suppose the native afghan folk that run the 'northern alliance' as the west calls them, have every right to kill the family members of all non-afghan Taliban since they are foreign force oppressing the locals.
I don't condone nor does Islam condone the killing of civilians (women, children, elderly) contrary to other 'divinely inspired' religions there is ethics in warfare, however, I utterly and completely understand why they are doing it, and hazard say under the same circumstance if it were my country under invasion and I am destitute and devoid of any semblance of a normal life or hopes for it and for centuries filled of wars and illegal occupations, I'd be out for the random kill everyday as well!
problem is, Afghanistan for all its resources which the west desires to get its paws into, really have nothing, no media to showcase their daily horrors, no soap and clean water to polish themselves and kids up for the TV camera to seek your sympathy, no teddy bears to be scattered about for the camera crew to focus on.. no sympathies are only exhibited for those well-kempt, well fed family folks who are suddenly, sadly and unjustly snatched away from the arms of their loved ones.. Afghanis/Iraqis/palis, etc. unfortunately don't get similar outcry for obvious reasons.. to the west they deserve less than dogs, and please don't attempt at an otherwise answer, the mere fact that these places are occupied for decades if not centuries is a testament to the ongoing double standard!
so don't act so surprised if a few foreigners get lined up every now and then for an execution!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I find it useless to argue with animals, because they dont reply or usually just bark back. We make threads and threads, post after post,topic after topic. Its just a cycle after every major attack takes place in a war or a unjustified attack by kuffar in the muslim lands. The best thing to do is make dua, follow the Commands of Allah, and the saheeh sunnah, and the way of the companions. If all muslims do that, and not deviate from those things, victory will surely come by the will of Allah. you see there are some scholars who try to implement all those things, which is the true way, but the media, and the deviant muslim themselves call them extremist or khawarij, mubtadi n other names. Without mentioning any names, we know who the Ulama are and the sheikhs who speak against hypocrites who support kufr. They are the ones who are being jailed in muslim lands by the presidents or kings. They are the ones who are wanted by western governments, they are ones who are looked upon as terrorist. Fatwas are being given by ignorant people,making the fatwa halal and use it in wrong way and for self-profiting purposes by the so called scholars. The true sunnah of our beloved prophet is being rarely practiced even in the holy mosques. How can we expect victory and power over the disbelievers when the so called scholars who are looked upon as examples and heroes not following real teachings of Islam.
Pure double standards, as you can see members who remain silent on the deaths of thousands of muslims are now getting all emotional and vocal when 7-8 of their own fellow non-muslims are killed.
If you believe that about my posts then you misunderstand the point I was making in my posts.
Also realize the double standard that many Muslims have on this forum.
They praise foreign invaders if they are Muslims, but demonize them if they are non-Muslim. In fact they praise the Muslim foreigners that go to kill, yet call the non-Muslims that go to help idiots. They praise, or at the least excuse, those Muslim groups that target Afghan civilians, yet don't believe anyone should get upset at the targeted killing of doctors that are there to help the poor get medical treatment.
How do you personally define enemies vs. people out to help during wartime?
and is that way so many of your own kin are killed in friendly fires along with nameless afghans of whom a great deal murdered or indoctrinated into man worship are children!
again with the optometrists helping people get medical treatment.. a shame for all of us who invested 8 yrs in medical school and 3-7 in a residency to have incurred all that debt and wasted all those years if that is all it takes to offer 'medical treatment'
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
How do you personally define enemies vs. people out to help during wartime?
I certainly would not define aid workers or doctors as enemies.
How do you define them? What, in your opinion, should make them a target?
gain with the optometrists helping people get medical treatment.. a shame for all of us who invested 8 yrs in medical school and 3-7 in a residency to have incurred all that debt and wasted all those years if that is all it takes to offer 'medical treatment'
Actually I was referring more to the Doctors Without Borders doctors that were murdered. Funny, though, how you seem more offended that he is being called a doctor than that he was killed.
I certainly would not define aid workers or doctors as enemies.
what about afghan children, are they the enemy, because it doesn't seem to make much difference to your troops if at all the stories leak and are reported .. God only knows what doesn't get reported!
How do you define them? What, in your opinion, should make them a target?
I don't live in Afghanistan and not familiar with their activities there- surely those who have targeted them are best suited to answer your queries!
Actually I was referring more to the Doctors Without Borders doctors that were murdered. Funny, though, how you seem more offended that he is being called a doctor than that he was killed.
I am offended that folks parade around as something other than what they are for secondary gain, and even if offering medical treatment how sub par it would be considering what plagues Afghanistan is completely out of the spectacle maker's sphere of expertise!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
If you believe that about my posts then you misunderstand the point I was making in my posts.
Also realize the double standard that many Muslims have on this forum.
They praise foreign invaders if they are Muslims, but demonize them if they are non-Muslim. In fact they praise the Muslim foreigners that go to kill, yet call the non-Muslims that go to help idiots. They praise, or at the least excuse, those Muslim groups that target Afghan civilians, yet don't believe anyone should get upset at the targeted killing of doctors that are there to help the poor get medical treatment.
Don't be silly, westerners are not helping Muslims, they never did throughout history and never will. They are merely plundering Muslim lands and natural resources and are trying to change and undermine our religion. We know that there are entire armies of missionaries in Iraq and Afghanistan who came immediately after the invasions. Approximately a hundred thousand Iraqis were converted to Christianity (with money). It's a war against Islam as well as for "strategic" reasons, such as controlling natural resources amongst others.
Last edited by Argamemnon; 08-09-2010 at 10:38 PM.
If you believe that about my posts then you misunderstand the point I was making in my posts.
Also realize the double standard that many Muslims have on this forum.
They praise foreign invaders if they are Muslims, but demonize them if they are non-Muslim. In fact they praise the Muslim foreigners that go to kill, yet call the non-Muslims that go to help idiots. They praise, or at the least excuse, those Muslim groups that target Afghan civilians, yet don't believe anyone should get upset at the targeted killing of doctors that are there to help the poor get medical treatment.
Muslims cannot be invaders in muslim lands - they are fully welcome as they are our brothers and sisters.
Non-muslims are not automatically welcome into muslims lands without first seeking permission from the legitimate ruler - then they'll be granted security.
Last edited by aadil77; 08-09-2010 at 10:29 PM.
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
Non-Muslims saying that the West is helping Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq is extremely insulting. It's like claiming that the Zionist occupiers are only there to help Palestinians. If I was a moderator here I would ban all of you at once.
Last edited by Argamemnon; 08-09-2010 at 10:47 PM.
When did someone praise "muslim invaders" in Afghanistan?
The only invading that has been taking place after 9/11 is Nato's invasions.
peace
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
Non-Muslims saying that the West is helping Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq is extremely insulting. It's like claiming that the Zionist occupiers are only there to help Palestinians. If I was a moderator here I would ban all of you at once.
I second that ban.. if for nothing else, but merely wasting our time on nonsense.. wonder if they yap away like that on the ills they cause, there is a book that would never end!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Muslims cannot be invaders in muslim lands - they are fully welcome as they are our brothers and sisters.
Non-muslims are not automatically welcome into muslims lands without first seeking permission from the legitimate ruler - then they'll be granted security.
even if Muslims were always welcomed into other Muslim lands that does not excuse them to go into someone's home in order to implement better 'islam'. sadly , the taliban are just a Pakistani puppet regime no better than the NATO forces. let the afghan people run themselves however they want to be run. the reason why Afghanistan is in shambles is because other countries can't get their noses out of the country. Whether it's the Soviets or the British or the Arabs, Afghanistan is caught dead center. the taliban were incompetent leaders that had no business running a government.
Lily:
I don't condone nor does Islam condone the killing of civilians (women, children, elderly) contrary to other 'divinely inspired' religions there is ethics in warfare, however, I utterly and completely understand why they are doing it, and hazard say under the same circumstance if it were my country under invasion and I am destitute and devoid of any semblance of a normal life or hopes for it and for centuries filled of wars and illegal occupations, I'd be out for the random kill everyday as well!
yep..i get the reason, and guess what? the taliban is a foreign force too! I guess you should start condemning their illegal occupation of Afghanistan now, right?
problem is, Afghanistan for all its resources which the west desires to get its paws into, really have nothing, no media to showcase their daily horrors, no soap and clean water to polish themselves and kids up for the TV camera to seek your sympathy, no teddy bears to be scattered about for the camera crew to focus on..
Actually they do have media that showcase the daily horrors and children's shows and all that. The only thing is you don't see that on CNN cause CNN is American News for an American audience.
no sympathies are only exhibited for those well-kempt, well fed family folks who are suddenly, sadly and unjustly snatched away from the arms of their loved ones.. Afghanis/Iraqis/palis, etc. unfortunately don't get similar outcry for obvious reasons.. to the west they deserve less than dogs, and please don't attempt at an otherwise answer, the mere fact that these places are occupied for decades if not centuries is a testament to the ongoing double standard!
Of course it's a double standard. If I ran CNN I would show news that will get me ratings otherwise I will be cut off air. If you watch Afghan or Iranian TV or Chinese TV (I guess) it'll be about their countries.
so don't act so surprised if a few foreigners get lined up every now and then for an execution!
I am not surprised. Aid workers have been dying in Afhganistan/Iraq/Africa forever. It's a risk that these people take when they try to help people. But obviously, the fact that these events are inevitable don't make them excusable.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
-Plato
yep..i get the reason, and guess what? the taliban is a foreign force too! I guess you should start condemning their illegal occupation of Afghanistan now, right?
There are no borders or passports amongst Muslims, that is a British institution meant to divide and conquer, they were quite successful at it, but true Muslims don't buy into it!
what do you think is the true reason there are foreign forces in the Muslim world? Do you think out of the goodness of their heart? They are just benevolent?
Actually they do have media that showcase the daily horrors and children's shows and all that. The only thing is you don't see that on CNN cause CNN is American News for an American audience.
Yeah, I believe the British reporter called it Propaganda, but that of course doesn't go both ways, when she is dispensing with opinion while sitting in their midst and eating their food, that is honest reporting, when they are taking pictures of the carnage, their ravaged homes and dead children, it is propaganda!
I am not surprised. Aid workers have been dying in Afhganistan/Iraq/Africa forever. It's a risk that these people take when they try to help people. But obviously, the fact that these events are inevitable don't make them excusable.
Indeed, they are called 'casualties of war'!
all the best
try fasting a day with us Lynx
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Non-Muslims saying that the West is helping Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq is extremely insulting. It's like claiming that the Zionist occupiers are only there to help Palestinians. If I was a moderator here I would ban all of you at once.
There are no borders or passports amongst Muslims, that is a British institution meant to divide and conquer, they were quite successful at it, but true Muslims don't buy into it!
Usually it is your outgroup hate that sticks out but here it is your ingroup blind faith. The west certainly has its abuses and its selfish motives, but the west is not the only one out to screw over places like Afghanistan. Just because somebody claims to be muslim doesn't mean they are your friend or have your best interests at heart.
The unseen enemy, the enemy within, is often the most dangerous. It is like that saying "Tyrany will come to America holding a bible and waving an American flag". Just because people try to fit into your ingroup doesn't mean they are not out to destroy you.
Why do you suddenly seem to care so much about one human life when you clearly don't have the slightest sympathy for those Muslims who are being killed everyday through sanctions and invasions and massacres? Don't you think that people are noticing what you're doing, what would your Buddha say to this attitude? Why are you always defending the killers of Muslims but when a non-Muslim is killed you suddenly become an extremely "humane" person?
format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon
So what if one non-Muslim was killed (not that I condone it)? Do people in the West cry and mourn for EVERY Muslim victim who was slaughtered by terrorist western armies?
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Pure double standards, as you can see members who remain silent on the deaths of thousands of muslims are now getting all emotional and vocal when 7-8 of their own fellow non-muslims are killed.
Nobody is condoning these attacks, but at the same time I can understand. If right after Pearl Harbour attacks, which is NOTHING compared to what Afghans get daily, Japanese Humanitarian People came to help, do you guys think Americans would welcome them? NO.... Maybe those missionaries/medics were killed illegally but they should not have expected a welcome mat, and maybe should have invested in bullet proof vests !
even if Muslims were always welcomed into other Muslim lands that does not excuse them to go into someone's home in order to implement better 'islam'. sadly , the taliban are just a Pakistani puppet regime no better than the NATO forces. let the afghan people run themselves however they want to be run. the reason why Afghanistan is in shambles is because other countries can't get their noses out of the country. Whether it's the Soviets or the British or the Arabs, Afghanistan is caught dead center. the taliban were incompetent leaders that had no business running a government.
LOL who's going into someone's home? are you saying all taliban are from pakistan? cause if you are you must be stupid. The taliban movement was accepted in afghanistan thats why it grew with the support of afghans all over the country - its consists of mostly afghans
And your statement 'no better than the NATO forces' - thats your opinion cause you're not a muslim, afghan taliban are praised all over the muslim world cause of their sincere struggle to fight for islam and rid the country of a constant influx of non-muslim invaders - Not many muslim countries have balls to defend themselves. You're probably not aware of this belief but even the worst muslim is better than the best non-muslim.
..............................
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
It is simple tribalism at work. Muslims have been demonized and made the "other" in western media so people who think tribally there don't feel for the arabs in the middle east (who they assume to be muslims). The exact same phenomenon works the other way (which is how we get events like 9/11 - and people celebrating it). The more we point to our differences and create barriers of ingroup/outgroup the less apt people are to care about the suffering of those on the other side.
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Afghanistan Taliban (OP)
I second that ban.. if for nothing else, but merely wasting our time on nonsense.. wonder if they yap away like that on the ills they cause, there is a book that would never end!
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