The following post in another thread spurs the question around which I hope we can focus discussion in this thread:
format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon
That depends on your definition of modernization of course. Islam has the ability to adapt to all ages and changes because it's the truth revealed by Allah. If modernization means changing the fundamentals of Islam (to please others or for whatever reason), then no. If modernization means correcting wrong beliefs and traditions, which were actually never part of Islam in the first place, but added later (which most Muslims are unaware of), then yes. But that's a seperate topic altogether.
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What do you think? Can Islam be modernized? Should it be? Is it wrong, and based on a false assumption, to suggest that it isn't already modernized?
Now to be clear, I'm not talking about technology or the difference between 1st and 3rd worlds. Nor am I focusing on politics nor any country's foreign policy, though I suspect some will see these things as tying in to the discussion. Rather, I am thinking in terms of ideas, especially those that emerged from what was known as the Age of Englightenment in Europe, such as: the rights of people to redress their government; the recognition of a public sphere in which discourse could take place, and the toleration of opposing views so as to allow for that discourse; democracy as a model for the adminstration of government.
One could expand this to include ideas that followed in what is less well-known as the Age of Modernity. Ideas such as the rights of workers to form together in unions; the equal status before the law of men and women; the equality of races; redistribution of both national wealth and political power to those who are without; education for the masses; that opportunity to advance one's self, to breathe clean air and drink clean water are also rights; that the natural world itself needs protecting from human exploitation.
There is no other faith except falsehood than submission to Almighty God and accepting the messages He has revealed - rejecting any of His messengers is also falsehood.
The best anyone can do for others (criminals who break God's law out of ignorance, arrogance or enmity) is pray for their guidance and try to deliver the truth to them in a nice way, (lakum deenukum wa liya deen).
but if they oppress God's Law abiding believers for no other reason than that they accept and implement the truth, they should be detered from oppression and breaking of God's law, clearly admonished and corrected and if this doesn't work, sent to the cemetery for God to judge them or have God's wrath called upon them.
And there is no other God than the Creator of the heavens and the earth who has no partner, no equal, no consort and no son.
I believe you'd tell me it would be foolish to tell the people of britain to "get along with law breaking criminals and be friends with them", while the current leaders of britain and all others who reject the truth are themselves criminals by God's measuring stick and by their own, and have not much of an idea i believe to know who's a criminal and who to punish.
I though Islam was modernized. They preach with microphones and do the adhan on loud speaks. You guys even post lectures online and we are on an Islamic forum using the net!
Are you saying Muslims should embark on space travel and preach to Martians? Really pushing it bro. Technically Muslims are more modern than us pagans. You are as modern as you want to be unless you are Amish or something
Haven't read every post on here so don't know if this has been answered, just the title and the long and short of it divided into two parts ibadat, and 3adat.
3ibaddah as in matters of worship are a done deal, we're not going to adopt a new way to pray, fast or pay charity etc.
matters of living involves many things and loosely there's room for ijtihad based on the fundamentals. But obviously this has nothing to do with internet or phones have no idea where that comes from. Islam asks us to seek knowledge and has made it compulsory, if something doesn't have a particular moral value attached to it then why make it more complex than it needs to be.. can't figure out why six pages are needed for that and not going to sort through them..
Time to purify yourself and Read in the name of your Lord who created you from a clot, and taught by the pen (and internet).
I do not disagree, however, after rereading your previous post I believe I can see the answer to my question:
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
The best anyone can do for others (criminals who break God's law out of ignorance, arrogance or enmity) is pray for their guidance and try to deliver the truth to them in a nice way, (lakum deenukum wa liya deen).
but if they oppress God's Law abiding believers for no other reason than that they accept and implement the truth, they should be detered from oppression and breaking of God's law, clearly admonished and corrected and if this doesn't work, sent to the cemetery for God to judge them or have God's wrath called upon them.
(Emphasis mine.) Muslims should therefore pray for unbelievers (these are also those who break God's law) and be kind to them.
But, according to your if, unbelievers are not necessarily oppressors until they do something worthy of being marked as such.
I noticed you went back and edited your post after it was responded to:
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
I believe you'd tell me it would be foolish to tell the people of britain to "get along with law breaking criminals and be friends with them", while the current leaders of britain and all others who reject the truth are themselves criminals by God's measuring stick and by their own, and have not much of an idea i believe to know who's a criminal and who to punish.
Agreed. When the law breaks the law there is no law.
I do not disagree, however, after rereading your previous post I believe I can see the answer to my question:
(Emphasis mine.) Muslims should therefore pray for unbelievers (these are also those who break God's law) and be kind to them.
But, according to your if, unbelievers are not necessarily oppressors until they do something worthy of being marked as such.
I noticed you went back and edited your post after it was responded to:
Agreed. When the law breaks the law there is no law.
Rejection of Almighty God who created you, the earth that you live on, and sends down your sustenance from the sky - in itself - is ignorance, oppression and darkness. The truth should be clear by now that disbelievers are living in a world of dichotomic doublethink despite the signs being clear.
As for the "If" : they oppress themselves (innakum zualamtum anfusakum bi ittikhaadhikum al 'ijl) when they reject the truth, so i prefer to be kind to them and explain clearly with sincerity even though Moses just told them to off themselves, (maybe he had realised the inevitable consequences of kufr in God and His Law, or maybe he was rightly concerned about the fact that God's jealousy had been aroused) but when they democratically and collectively attack Muslims who have accepted and submitted to the truth, it is a transgression beyond boundaries which the believers themselves either rectify by God's judgement or call upon God to judge in the absence of physical means.
And there is no God but One, who created all that exists and sent down the guidance.
I had already begun editing it before i saw your post. Have to edit a lot as i use a phone to type and find it difficult make a coherent paragraph since my own text is obscured unless scrolled thru.
There is Only God's Law, and He doesn't break it.
All else in derogation is deception and falsehood.
Anyone who claims that their judgement or "law" is above God is a deceiever of themselves and others for which they should repent and amend.
For isn't it Lucifer who claims to ascend to heaven above the throne of God?
Kuffar leaders - actually any from among mankind and jinn and AI - would be well advised not to tug at God's cloak, let alone imagine themselves on His throne.
Saying that people who live in a democratic society are "oppressors" because their elected officials are making decisions which may oppress Islam seems to be "oppression by proxy." Is "oppression by proxy" the same as "oppression," according to the Quran?
Consider that there is also a significant difference between a democracy and a republic. In a democracy, people actually vote for actions they want their government to take. In a republic, people vote for representatives to make decisions for them.
Lol u making me respond to a million questions beyond my reasonable capability.
In a democracy, the deceptive elite falsely convince people that they wear the cloak of God and sit on His throne (na'udhubillahi min dhaalik).
And in a satanic (Godless) republic they falsely believe their founders and leaders wear the cloak of God and sit on His throne, and that constitutions made by such founders are the bounden "laws" of such gods.
(na'udhubillahi min dhaalik).
In a real caliphate - the leaders and Prophets are fellow servants of God - there only to obey God with full sincerity, and that the Creator of the heavens and the earth and sustainer of them is God.
(Allahu Akbar)
The best advice i can give is: read the Quran and as much of the sahih ahadith as you can reasonably read, read the life story of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, compare it with previous scripture if necessary, evaluate the possibility of truth (reading sherlock holmes may assist in that), and THEN, if GENUINELY confused, ask people who you believe can answer sincerely and truthfully, and let them be sincere and true when answering - and repent to God and submit to Him.
For you can do nothing against the truth, and any illegal move you knowingly make will only work against you and vindicate the truth.
Salaaman salaama.
The following post in another thread spurs the question around which I hope we can focus discussion in this thread:</p>
What do you think? Can Islam be modernized? Should it be? Is it wrong, and based on a false assumption, to suggest that it isn't already modernized?
Now to be clear, I'm not talking about technology or the difference between 1st and 3rd worlds. Nor am I focusing on politics nor any country's foreign policy, though I suspect some will see these things as tying in to the discussion. Rather, I am thinking in terms of ideas, especially those that emerged from what was known as the Age of Englightenment in Europe, such as: the rights of people to redress their government; the recognition of a public sphere in which discourse could take place, and the toleration of opposing views so as to allow for that discourse; democracy as a model for the adminstration of government.
One could expand this to include ideas that followed in what is less well-known as the Age of Modernity. Ideas such as the rights of workers to form together in unions; the equal status before the law of men and women; the equality of races; redistribution of both national wealth and political power to those who are without; education for the masses; that opportunity to advance one's self, to breathe clean air and drink clean water are also rights; that the natural world itself needs protecting from human exploitation.
Peace be upon those who recieve Guidance!
Islam has been Perfected over 1400 years ago as stated in the Quran,
It is absurd to try and improve on Perfection,
The Quran and the Sunnah of the messenger will stand till Judgement day.all relevant rights were given to Mankind opver 1400 years ago, including those you stated above,
as for democracy that is a failed system of Governance which implies mankind with it's dimunitive knowledge knows better than their creator,
Really, in the same way as our science was perfect as stated in the science books 1400 years ago?
if you are a muslim than your above sentence is unforgiveable.you must repent.
science is man made thing and religion is GOD given thing.how can the creators creation be equal to human creation?
you will one day die in this world (to be reserructed later on) despite your wealth and "high education".but allah subhanahu will remain forever .
seculars are like dumb frogs in a small pond who thinks that his 2 by 2 feet pond is the whole world or universe.
you my friend is less than a speck of sand in greater scheme of things Allah has created.so speak in your limits.
even Einstein after years of research said that I know nothing and their is some creator who is running this show.
the greatest fitna in present time is that we consider our puny degrees (mbbs,MBA,BE etc) as a "Qaualification" that we can pass judgements on creator and "reform" the way of life "religion) he chose for us to be followed.
if Allah forbade alcohol and pork than it is still valid now as it was 1400 years ago.if Allah forbade zina it is still valid despite "late marriages".and if Allah asked believers to do jihad ,it is still valid in this "civilized world" (where kufar and rafawid have license to kill million of muslims but muslims don't have right of defense).bravo
I just remembered something.muslims read it carefully.
I am a Pakistani.fortunately or unfortunately whatever you say.i knew a guy whose sister got admission in pakistans number one medical collage which is located in Karachi and is run by agha khani shia community.this medical collage admission is the most sought after one in Pakistan and its fees are pretty high too.
anyway around 2005 I came to know that this guys sister had developed some doubts regarding islam and she was even considering to become atheist or atleast leave islam.
when interrogated she told of constant brain washing by medical collage staff and colleagues against islam ,(remember that this is happening in a so called muslim country.imagine what happens in kufar countries).
she also told that her islamiyat teacher (who belonged to same community) told them in one lecture that (nauzubillah) zina is halaal or allowed in present era.he told his class that sex outside marriage is halaal in islam according to this era,s demand when marriages take place later than usual.
she asked that is it true that sex outside marriage is allowed in this era?
so this girl who was from conservative pathan family of frontier province almost lost her iman due to brain washing in most prestigious institute in Pakistan.(later she repented after a lot of effort.pray for steadfastness of her iman).
same things happen in so called Islamic university like international Islamic university Islamabad.where some anti islam minded people have been made in charge and they install hatred against true islam etc...these satan agents want that people believe that islam has nothing to do with daily life and it must be limited to one,s self .so that system of governance must be secular or satanic system but a man can follow his religion in confines of his home
(minus jihad ofcourse).
nothing is more wrong than this...islam came to become system of this world.without that woprld will never know true justice...infact creation of khilafat and a system of Islamic governance is ferz on every muslim like salaat is ferz!
wish we muslims knew islam a little better.but our parents stresses only on worldly educationa nd did not stress at all on Islamic bases on their children.and for this they will be answerable to Allah most definitely .as a husband is qawwam on his ife and parents are qawwam on their kids and they have ferz duty to give them Islamic know how and education in true form according to quran and sunnah
What to say, drkashifj? It is the world of today. I guess that is why the holy prophet said about his ummah at the end of times. And we are living in the time of the great fitnah, no?
As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.
During our short lives here, can we all get along as children of Allah/God?
Everyone’s existence is logical and has a purpose. We are basically tiny energy bubbles within a larger energy bubble called earth; that is within an even larger energy bubble that is our universe. Our main purpose in life is to accumulate new positive experiences that will add to the glory of the ultimate spiritual existence that guides the development of the universe like a master planner; call it God, Allah, Jehovah or whatever you wish.
The DNA within us controls our spirituality and is tied to this force, it is converted to spiritual energy when we die and added to the progressive and accumulative energy that is used to create other forces within the universe. The law of nature in the “physical” universe binds everything with this energy or force. It is invisible to us, yet it is the most powerful, ultimate creator, but it nevertheless cannot invade our physical existence.
During our physical existence our spirit can tap into this spiritual energy and receive inspirations and blessings to accomplish inestimable feats that can make our existence very pleasurable. Peace.
Lol u making me respond to a million questions beyond my reasonable capability.
In a democracy, the deceptive elite falsely convince people that they wear the cloak of God and sit on His throne (na'udhubillahi min dhaalik).
And in a satanic (Godless) republic they falsely believe their founders and leaders wear the cloak of God and sit on His throne, and that constitutions made by such founders are the bounden "laws" of such gods.
(na'udhubillahi min dhaalik).
In a real caliphate - the leaders and Prophets are fellow servants of God - there only to obey God with full sincerity, and that the Creator of the heavens and the earth and sustainer of them is God.
(Allahu Akbar)
The best advice i can give is: read the Quran and as much of the sahih ahadith as you can reasonably read, read the life story of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, compare it with previous scripture if necessary, evaluate the possibility of truth (reading sherlock holmes may assist in that), and THEN, if GENUINELY confused, ask people who you believe can answer sincerely and truthfully, and let them be sincere and true when answering - and repent to God and submit to Him.
For you can do nothing against the truth, and any illegal move you knowingly make will only work against you and vindicate the truth.
Salaaman salaama.
Really good prose there. Are you training to be an Imam?
Democracy is a joke. Most elections are rigged and most people are cretins so if the election results were not rigged the country would go broke over loaded with socialist policy. How long would a company last if all the menial workers had the power? They would want $100 dollars an hour and only turn up one day a week.
Evil plutocrats rule my country but that beats socialist grinding poverty. Evil has always ruled since the beginning of civilization, because it has the tenacity to do so.
My mistake I was thinking of Freyr (Fro Ingwe) is Freya's twin brother. He is the horned God of fertility, and has some similarities to the Celtic Cernunnos or Herne, although he is NOT the same being. He is known as King of the Alfs (elves). Both the Swedish and the English are said to be descendents of his. The Boar is his sacred symbol, which is both associated with war and with fertility. His golden boar, "Gullenbursti", is supposed to represent the daybreak. He is also considered to be the God of Success, and is wedded to Gerda, the Jotun, for whom he had to yield up his mighty sword. At Ragnarok, he is said to fight with the horn of an elk (much more suited to his nature rather than a sword.)
It's all very dungeons and dragons and very barbarically colourful. But my posts are getting deleted because I am not towing the line, so I should stick to Islam. Relatively speaking Islam is modern. The problem that the critics have is that Islam is not modern Western i.e. Zionist feminist Anglo American internationalist hegemony of warmongers and control freaks. In a nutshell The Beast. They do not want to destroy Islam but are trying to turn it to bow down to The Beast instead of Allah. Marxists have infiltrated the Catholic Church and the Marxist Pope has gone to Turkey to try to turn Islam the UN way.
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Time to purify yourself and Read in the name of your Lord who created you from a clot, and taught by the pen (and internet).
Really pushing it bro. Technically Muslims are more modern than us pagans. You are as modern as you want to be unless you are Amish or something
will stand till Judgement day.all relevant rights were given to Mankind opver 1400 years ago, including those you stated above,
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