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Osama Bin Laden has been killed

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    Osama Bin Laden has been killed (OP)


    Just heard this on the news.
    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    “All day I think about it, then at night I say it. Where did I come from, and what am I supposed to be doing? I have no idea. My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there.”

    Rumi

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    Rhubarb Tart's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

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    format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist View Post
    LOL. on fire, baby?

    So he is more knowledgeable just because "ooh wow he went to Yale?"

    So he is even more educated than the scholars who were born, raised, educated within islamic countries, households and cultures and have an opinion, strongly backed by Quran and Sunnah, and have spent decades and decades learning from great teachers, unlike him who spent only 5-8 years in Medina and is now a "sheikh"? Great.

    Yes, Yes-Sir Qadhi might be considered a scholar by American Muslims, but not necessarily by the majority of the Ummah, who surprisingly dont live in America *cough cough* and dont really want to.


    Why don’t you express your discontent with his article on his facebook?

    http://www.facebook.com/yasir.qadhi

    While you are at it, express your thoughts above to him. I think he would welcome your comment.


    Best Regards
    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106 View Post


    Why don’t you express your discontent with his article on his facebook?

    http://www.facebook.com/yasir.qadhi

    While you are at it, express your thoughts above to him. I think he would welcome your comment.


    Best Regards
    hmmm ... maybe someday.

    wsalam
    Last edited by CosmicPathos; 05-16-2011 at 09:43 PM.
    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Help me to escape from this existence
    I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
    I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
    In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist View Post
    hmmm ... maybe someday.

    wsalam
    I don’t think you need to. I was reading through comments and some people have already expressed similar concerns as you. It is now a matter of waiting for his response to those comments. Ishallah
    We owe him as a brother of our religion to explain why he expressed this stance on Osama.
    I don’t understand why he is so certain that Osama was behind 9/11 nor do I understand other scholar that says he is a satin.
    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].

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    A-Believer-25's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    As-salam 'alakum wa rahmatullah wa barakatu

    inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un


    Allah yarhamu and all the Muslims, may Allah (SWT) forgive Osama, and the Muslims who died with him that night, and forgive the sins of all Muslims, ameen.
    Last edited by A-Believer-25; 05-18-2011 at 02:44 AM.
    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of Allah!

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Come to think about it, the nutters writing about OBL might someday be nourished by his body! By drinking the water, which comes from oceans, which were fertilized by his body. So really, OBL lives within you!
    Last edited by CosmicPathos; 05-18-2011 at 03:36 AM.
    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Help me to escape from this existence
    I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
    I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
    In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist View Post
    Come to think about it, the nutters writing about OBL might someday be nourished by his body! By drinking the water, which comes from oceans, which were fertilized by his body. So really, OBL lives within you!
    Yeah...then the CIA can have more OBLs....free of charge.
    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    رَضِيتُ بالله رَباً, و بالإسلاَمِ دِيناً, وبمُحَمَّدٍ نَبِياًّ


    I am pleased with Allaah as my Lord, with Islaam as my religion and Muhammad (sallalaahu alaihi wasallam) as my prophet.

  10. #527
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    كلمة الشيخ الشهيد‘=إن شاء الله

    إنَّ الحمدَ لله نحمده ونستعينه ونستغفرُه


    ونعوذ بالله من شرورِ أنفسنا وسيئات أعمالنا
    من يهدهِ اللهُ فلا مضلَّ له ومنْ يضلِلْ فلا هاديَ له
    وأشهد ألا إله إلا الله وحده لا شريك له وأشهد أن محمداً عبده ورسوله

    أما بعد:

    أمتي المسلمة:

    نراقب معك هذا الحدث التاريخي العظيم،

    ونشاركك الفرحة والسرور والبهجة والحبور

    نفرح لفرحك ونترح لترحك

    فهنيئا لك انتصاراتك

    ورحم الله شهداءك

    وعافى جرحاك

    وفرج عن أسراك

    وبعد:

    هلّتْ بمجدِ بني الإسلام أيامُ
    بها اختفى عن بلاد العرب حكامُ

    طوتْ عروشاً إلى أن جاءنا خبرٌ
    فيه مخايل للبشرى وأعلامُ

    قال من يمّمتِ الأمة وجهها ترقب النصر الذي لاحت بشائره من المشرق

    فإذا بشمس الثورة تطلع من المغرب

    أضاءت الثورة من تونس

    فأنِسَتْ بها الأمة

    وأشرقتْ وجوهُ الشعوب

    وشرِقتْ حناجرُ الحكّام

    وارتاعت يهودُ لقرب الوعود

    فبإسقاط الطاغية سقطت معاني الذلة والخنوع والخوف والإحجام

    ونهضت معاني الحرية والعزة والجرأة والإقدام

    فهبت رياح التغيير رغبة في التحرير

    وكان لتونس قصب السبق

    وبسرعة البرق أخذ فرسان الكنانة قبساً من أحرار تونس إلى ميدان التحرير

    فانطلقت ثورة عظيمة وأي ثورة

    ثورة مصيرية لمصر كلها

    وللأمة بأسرها إن اعتصمت بحبل ربها

    ولم تكن هذه الثورة ثورة طعام وكساء

    وإنما ثورة عز وإباء

    ثورة بذل وعطاء

    أضاءت حواضر النيل وقراه من أدناه لأعلاه

    فتراءت لفتيان الإسلام أمجادهم

    وحنت نفوسهم لعهد أجدادهم

    فاقتبسوا من ميدان التحرير في القاهرة شعلاً ليقهروا بها الأنظمة الجائرة

    ووقفوا في وجه الباطل ورفعوا قبضاتهم ضده ولم يهابوا جنده

    وتعاهدوا فوثقوا المعاهدة

    فالهمم صامدة والسواعد مساعدة والثورة واعدة

    فإلى أولئك الثوار الأحرار في جميع الأقطار

    تمسكوا بزمام المبادرة

    واحذروا المحاورة

    فلا التقاء في منتصف السبيل بين أهل الحق وأهل التضليل

    حاشا وكلا

    وتذكروا أن الله قد من عليكم بأيام لها ما بعدها

    أنتم فرسانها وقادتها

    وبأيديكم لجامها وريادتها

    ادخرَتْكم الأمة لهذا الحدث الجلل

    فأتموا المسير

    ولا تهابوا العسير


    بدأ المسير إلى الهدف ** والحرُّ في عزمٍ زحَفْ

    والحر إن بدأ المسيـ ** ـــــرَ فلنْ يكِلَّ ولنْ يقِفْ


    فلن يقف حتى تتحقق الأهداف المنشودة والآمال المعقودة بإذن الله تعالى

    فثورتكم هي قطب الرحى

    وموضع آمال المكلومين والجرحى

    فقد فرجتم عن الأمة كُرَباً عظيمة (فرج الله كربكم)

    وتحققون آمالاً كبيرة (حقق الله آمالكم)


    وقف السبيلُ بكم كوقفةِ طارقٍ

    اليأسُ خلفٌ والرجاءُ أمامُ


    وتردُّ بالدم بزةٌ أُخذَتْ بِهِ

    ويموتُ دونَ عرينِهِ الضّرغامُ


    منْ يبذِلُ الروح الكريم لربّهِ

    دفعاً لباطنِه فكيف يُلامُ



    فيا أبناء أمتي المسلمة:

    أمامكم مفترق طرق خطير

    وفرصة تاريخية عظيمة نادرة للنهوض بالأمة

    والتحرر من العبودية لأهواء الحكام والقوانين الوضعية والهيمنة الغربية

    فمن الإثم العظيم والجهل الكبير أن تضيع هذه الفرصة التي تنتظرها الأمة منذ عقود بعيدة

    فاغتنموها وحطموا الأصنام والأوثان

    وأقيموا العدل والإيمان

    وفي هذا المقام أذكر الصادقين بأن تأسيس مجلس لتقديم الرأي والمشورة للشعوب المسلمة في جميع المحاور المهمة واجب شرعي

    وآكدُ ما يكون على بعض الغيورين

    الذين قد نصحوا مبكراً بضرورة استئصال هذه الأنظمة الظالمة

    ولهم ثقة واسعة بين جماهير المسلمين

    فعليهم البدء بهذا المشروع والإعلان عنه سريعاً

    بعيداً عن هيمنة الحكام المستبدين

    وإنشاء غرفة عمليات مواكبة للأحداث

    للعمل بخطوط متوازية تشمل جميع حاجات الأمة

    مع الاستفادة من مقترحات أولي النهى في هذه الأمة

    والاستعانة بمراكز الأبحاث المؤهلة وأولي الألباب من أهل المعرفة

    لإنقاذ الشعوب التي تكافح لإسقاط طغاتها ويتعرض أبناؤها للقتل

    وتوجيه الشعوب التي أسقط للحاكم بعض أركانه بالخطوات المطلوبة لحماية الثورة وتحقيق أهدافها

    وكذلك التعاون مع الشعوب التي لم تنطلق ثوراتها بعد لتحديد ساعة الصفر وما يلزم قبلها

    فالتأخر يعرض الفرصة للضياع

    والتقدم قبل أوانه يزيد من عدد الضحايا

    وأحسب أن رياح التغيير ستعمّ العالم الإسلامي بأسره بإذن الله

    فينبغي على الشباب أن يعدوا للأمر ما يلزم

    وألا يقطعوا أمراً قبل مشورة أهل الخبرة الصادقين
    المبتعدين عن أنصاف الحلول ومداهنة الظالمين

    وقد قيل:

    الرأي قبل شجاعة الشجعانِ

    هو أولٌ وهي المحل الثاني



    أمتي المسلمة:

    لقد شهِدْتِ قبل بضعة عقود ثورات عديدة فرح الناس بها ثم ما لبثوا أن ذاقوا ويلاتها

    فالسبيل لحفظ الأمة وثوراتها اليوم من الضلال والظلم هو بالانطلاق في ثورة الوعي وتصحيح المفاهيم في شتى المجالات ولا سيما الأساسية

    وأهمها ركن الإسلام الأول

    ومن خير ما كُتبَ في ذلك:

    كتاب: مفاهيم ينبغي أن تُصَحَّح للشيخ محمد قطب

    فضعف الوعي عند كثير من أبناء الأمة الناتج عن الثقافة الخاطئة التي يبثها الحكام منذ عقود بعيدة هو المصيبة الكبرى

    وما مصائب الأمة الأخرى إلا ثمرة من ثمراتها المرة

    فثقافة الذل والهوان والخنوع وتكريس الطاعة المطلقة للحكام
    - وتلك عبادة لهم من دون الله –

    والتنازل عن أهم الحقوق الدينية والدنيوية لهم

    وجعل القيم والمبادئ والأشخاص تدور في فلكهم وتفقد الإنسان إنسانيته

    وتجعله يركض وراء الحاكم وإرادته دون إدراك أو تبصر

    فيصبح إمّعة: إن أحسن الناس أحسن، وإن أساؤوا أساء

    مما يجعله سلعة من سقط المتاع يفعل بها الحاكم ما يشاء

    وهؤلاء هم ضحايا الظلم والاستبداد في بلادنا
    الذين أخرجهم الحكامُ ليهتفوا باسمهم ويقفوا في خندقهم

    وقد سعى الحكام ليتخلى الناسُ عن أهم حقوقهم التي آتاهم الله إياها

    فعطّلوا عقولَ الأمة

    وهمّشوا دورها في الشؤون العامة المهمة

    عبر تضافر جهود مؤسسات الدولة الدينية والإعلامية لإضفاء الشرعية عليهم

    فسحروا أعين الناس وإراداتهم وعقولهم

    وروجوا لصنمية الحاكم وأسسوا لها زوراً وبهتاناً باسم الدين، وكذلك باسم الوطن

    ليحترمها الناس وليغرسوها في النفوس

    ليقدسها الكبار ولم يسلم منها الصغار

    الذين هم أمانة في أعناقنا وقد ولدوا على الفطرة

    فاغتالوا فطرتهم بلا ضمير ولا رحمة

    فهرم على ذلك الكبير وشب عليه الصغير

    فازداد الطغاة طغياناً والمستضعفين استضعافاً فماذا تنتظرون

    فأنقذوا أنفسكم وأطفالكم فالفرصة سانحة

    خاصة بعد أن تحمل فتيان الأمة عبء الثورات ومصابها

    ورصاص الطغاة وعذابها

    فمهدوا الطريق بتضحياتهم

    وأقاموا جسر الحرية بدمائهم

    فتية في مقتبل العمر

    طلقوا دنيا الذل والقهر

    وخطبوا العزة أو القبر

    فهل يعي الحكام أن الشعب قد خرج ولن يعود

    حتى يحقق الوعود بإذن الله تعالى



    وختاماً:


    إن الظلم العظيم في بلادنا قد بلغ مبلغاً كبيراً

    وتأخرنا كثيراً في إنكاره وتغييره

    فمن بدأ فليتم ما بدأه نصره الله

    ومن لم يبدأ فليعد للأمر عدته

    وتدبروا الحديث الصحيح عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم حيث قال:

    ما من نبي بعثه الله في أمة قبلي إلا كان له من أمته حواريون وأصحاب يأخذون بسنته ويتقيدون بأمره ثم إنها تخلف من بعدهم خُلوف يقولون ما لا يفعلون ويفعلون ما لا يؤمرون فمن جاهدهم بيده فهو مؤمن ومن جاهدهم بلسانه فهو مؤمن ومن جاهدهم بقلبه فهو مؤمن وليس وراء ذلك من الإيمان حبة خردل


    وقال أيضاً:

    سيد الشهداء حمزة بن عبد المطلب ورجل قام إلى إمام جائر فأمره ونهاه فقتله


    فهنيئاً لمن خرج بهذه النية العظيمة

    فإن قُتِل فسيدُ الشهداء

    وإن عاش فبعزٍّ وإباء

    فانصروا الحق ولا تبالوا


    فقول الحق للطاغي ** هو العز هو البشرى

    هو الدرب إلى الدنيا ** هو الدرب إلى الأخرى

    فإن شئت فمت عبداً ** وإن شئت فمت حرّا


    اللهم افتح على القائمين بنصرة دينك فتحاً مبيناً

    وارزقهم صبراً وسداداً ويقينا

    اللهم ابرم لهذه الأمة أمر رشد

    يُعزُّ فيه أهلُ طاعتك

    ويُذلُّ فيه أهل معصيتك

    ويؤمر فيه بالمعروف

    ويُنهى فيه عن المنكر

    ربنا آتنا في الدنيا حسنةً وفي الآخرة حسنةً وقنا عذابَ النار

    اللهمّ قوٍّ ضعفَنا

    واجبر كسرَنا

    وثبِّتْ أقدامنا

    اللهمّ عليك بأئمة الظلم المحلّيين والدوليين

    وانصرنا على القوم الظالمين

    وآخر دعوانا أن الحمد لله رب العالمين


    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Osama Bin Laden has been killed


  11. #528
    سيف الله's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Salaam

    This in my view is a good and detailed summary of the whole episode - Ill post it here since this is the main thread on Osama Bin Laden

    There is Much More to Say

    After the assassination of bin Laden I received such a deluge of requests for comment that I was unable to respond individually, and on May 4 and later I sent an unedited form response instead, not intending for it to be posted, and expecting to write it up more fully and carefully later on. But it was posted, then circulated. It can now be found, reposted, at http://www.zcommunications.org/my-re...y-noam-chomsky.

    That was followed but a deluge of reactions from all over the world. It is far from a scientific sample of course, but nevertheless, the tendencies may be of some interest. Overwhelmingly, those from the “third world” were on the order of “thanks for saying what we think.” There were similar ones from the US, but many others were infuriated, often virtually hysterical, with almost no relation to the actual content of the posted form letter. That was true in particular of the posted or published responses brought to my attention. I have received a few requests to comment on several of these. Frankly, it seems to me superfluous. If there is any interest, I’ll nevertheless find some time to do so.

    The original letter ends with the comment that “There is much more to say, but even the most obvious and elementary facts should provide us with a good deal to think about.” Here I will fill in some of the gaps, leaving the original otherwise unchanged in all essentials.

    Noam Chomsky

    May 2011


    On May 1, 2011, Osama bin Laden was killed in his virtually unprotected compound by a raiding mission of 79 Navy Seals, who entered Pakistan by helicopter. After many lurid stories were provided by the government and withdrawn, official reports made it increasingly clear that the operation was a planned assassination, multiply violating elementary norms of international law, beginning with the invasion itself.

    There appears to have been no attempt to apprehend the unarmed victim, as presumably could have been done by 79 commandos facing no opposition - except, they report, from his wife, also unarmed, who they shot in self-defense when she “lunged” at them (according to the White House).

    A plausible reconstruction of the events is provided by veteran Middle East correspondent Yochi Dreazen and colleagues in the Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-laden/238330/). Dreazen, formerly the military correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, is senior correspondent for the National Journal Group covering military affairs and national security. According to their investigation, White House planning appears not to have considered the option of capturing OBL alive: “The administration had made clear to the military's clandestine Joint Special Operations Command that it wanted bin Laden dead, according to a senior U.S. official with knowledge of the discussions. A high-ranking military officer briefed on the assault said the SEALs knew their mission was not to take him alive.”

    The authors add: “For many at the Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency who had spent nearly a decade hunting bin Laden, killing the militant was a necessary and justified act of vengeance.” Furthermore, “Capturing bin Laden alive would have also presented the administration with an array of nettlesome legal and political challenges.” Better, then, to assassinate him, dumping his body into the sea without the autopsy considered essential after a killing, whether considered justified or not – an act that predictably provoked both anger and skepticism in much of the Muslim world.

    As the Atlantic inquiry observes, “The decision to kill bin Laden outright was the clearest illustration to date of a little-noticed aspect of the Obama administration's counterterror policy. The Bush administration captured thousands of suspected militants and sent them to detention camps in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Guantanamo Bay. The Obama administration, by contrast, has focused on eliminating individual terrorists rather than attempting to take them alive.” That is one significant difference between Bush and Obama. The authors quote former West German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt, who “told German TV that the U.S. raid was ‘quite clearly a violation of international law’ and that bin Laden should have been detained and put on trial,” contrasting Schmidt with US Attorney General Eric Holder, who “defended the decision to kill bin Laden although he didn't pose an immediate threat to the Navy SEALs, telling a House panel on Tuesday that the assault had been ‘lawful, legitimate and appropriate in every way’.”

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    The disposal of the body without autopsy was also criticized by allies. The highly regarded British barrister Geoffrey Robertson, who supported the intervention and opposed the execution largely on pragmatic grounds, nevertheless described Obama’s claim that “justice was done” as an “absurdity” that should have been obvious to a former professor of constitutional law (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...ed-not-killed/). Pakistan law “requires a colonial inquest on violent death, and international human rights law insists that the ‘right to life’ mandates an inquiry whenever violent death occurs from government or police action. The U.S. is therefore under a duty to hold an inquiry that will satisfy the world as to the true circumstances of this killing.” Robertson adds that “The law permits criminals to be shot in self-defense if they (or their accomplices) resist arrest in ways that endanger those striving to apprehend them. They should, if possible, be given the opportunity to surrender, but even if they do not come out with their hands up, they must be taken alive if that can be achieved without risk. Exactly how bin Laden came to be ‘shot in the head’ (especially if it was the back of his head, execution-style) therefore requires explanation. Why a hasty ‘burial at sea’ without a post mortem, as the law requires?”

    Robertson attributes the murder to “America’s obsessive belief in capital punishment—alone among advanced nations—[which] is reflected in its rejoicing at the manner of bin Laden’s demise.” For example, Nation columnist Eric Alterman writes that “The killing of Osama bin Laden was a just and necessary undertaking.”

    Robertson usefully reminds us that “It was not always thus. When the time came to consider the fate of men much more steeped in wickedness than Osama bin Laden -- namely the Nazi leadership -- the British government wanted them hanged within six hours of capture. President Truman demurred, citing the conclusion of Justice Robert Jackson that summary execution ‘would not sit easily on the American conscience or be remembered by our children with pride…the only course is to determine the innocence or guilt of the accused after a hearing as dispassionate as the times will permit and upon a record that will leave our reasons and motives clear’."

    The editors of the Daily Beast comment that “The joy is understandable, but to many outsiders, unattractive. It endorses what looks increasingly like a cold-blooded assassination as the White House is now forced to admit that Osama bin Laden was unarmed when he was shot twice in the head.”

    In societies that profess some respect for law, suspects are apprehended and brought to fair trial. I stress “suspects.” In June 2002, FBI head Robert Mueller, in what the Washington Post described as “among his most detailed public comments on the origins of the attacks,” could say only that “investigators believe the idea of the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon came from al Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan, the actual plotting was done in Germany, and the financing came through the United Arab Emirates from sources in Afghanistan…. We think the masterminds of it were in Afghanistan, high in the al Qaeda leadership.” What the FBI believed and thought in June 2002 they didn’t know eight months earlier, when Washington dismissed tentative offers by the Taliban (how serious, we do not know) to extradite bin Laden if they were presented with evidence. Thus it is not true, as the President claimed in his White House statement, that “We quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by al Qaeda.”

    There has never been any reason to doubt what the FBI believed in mid-2002, but that leaves us far from the proof of guilt required in civilized societies – and whatever the evidence might be, it does not warrant murdering a suspect who could, it seems, have been easily apprehended and brought to trial. Much the same is true of evidence provided since. Thus the 9/11 Commission provided extensive circumstantial evidence of bin Laden’s role in 9/11, based primarily on what it had been told about confessions by prisoners in Guantanamo. It is doubtful that much of that would hold up in an independent court, considering the ways confessions were elicited. But in any event, the conclusions of a congressionally authorized investigation, however convincing one finds them, plainly fall short of a sentence by a credible court, which is what shifts the category of the accused from suspect to convicted. There is much talk of bin Laden's “confession,” but that was a boast, not a confession, with as much credibility as my “confession” that I won the Boston marathon. The boast tells us a lot about his character, but nothing about his responsibility for what he regarded as a great achievement, for which he wanted to take credit.

    Again, all of this is, transparently, quite independent of one’s judgments about his responsibility, which seemed clear immediately, even before the FBI inquiry, and still does.

    It is worth adding that bin Laden’s responsibility was recognized in much of the Muslim world, and condemned. One significant example is the distinguished Lebanese cleric Sheikh Fadlallah, greatly respected by Hizbollah and Shia groups generally, outside Lebanon as well. He too had been targeted for assassination: by a truck bomb outside a mosque, in a CIA-organized operation in 1985. He escaped, but 80 others were killed, mostly women and girls, as they left the mosque – one of those innumerable crimes that do not enter the annals of terror because of the fallacy of “wrong agency.” Sheikh Fadlallah sharply condemned the 9/11 attacks, as did many other leading figures in the Muslim world, within the Jihadi movement as well. Among others, the head of Hizbollah, Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah, sharply condemned bin Laden and Jihadi ideology.

    One of the leading specialists on the Jihadi movement, Fawaz Gerges, suggests that the movement might have been split at that time had the US exploited the opportunity instead of mobilizing the movement, particularly by the attack on Iraq, a great boon to bin Laden, which led to a sharp increase in terror, as intelligence agencies had anticipated. That conclusion was confirmed by the former head of Britain’s domestic intelligence agency MI5 at the Chilcot hearings investigating the background for the war. Confirming other analyses, she testified that both British and US intelligence were aware that Saddam posed no serious threat and that the invasion was likely to increase terror; and that the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan had radicalized parts of a generation of Muslims who saw the military actions as an “attack on Islam.” As is often the case, security was not a high priority for state action.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    It might be instructive to ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush's compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic (after proper burial rites, of course). Uncontroversially, he is not a “suspect” but the “decider” who gave the orders to invade Iraq -- that is, to commit the “supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole” (quoting the Nuremberg Tribunal) for which Nazi criminals were hanged: in Iraq, the hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, destruction of much of the country and the national heritage, and the murderous sectarian conflict that has now spread to the rest of the region. Equally uncontroversially, these crimes vastly exceed anything attributed to bin Laden.

    To say that all of this is uncontroversial, as it is, is not to imply that it is not denied. The existence of flat earthers does not change the fact that, uncontroversially, the earth is not flat. Similarly, it is uncontroversial that Stalin and Hitler were responsible for horrendous crimes, though loyalists deny it. All of this should, again, be too obvious for comment, and would be, except in an atmosphere of hysteria so extreme that it blocks rational thought.

    Similarly, it is uncontroversial that Bush and associates did commit the “supreme international crime,” the crime of aggression, at least if we take the Nuremberg Tribunal seriously. The crime of aggression was defined clearly enough by Justice Robert Jackson, Chief of Counsel for the United States at Nuremberg, reiterated in an authoritative General Assembly resolution. An “aggressor,” Jackson proposed to the Tribunal in his opening statement, is a state that is the first to commit such actions as “Invasion of its armed forces, with or without a declaration of war, of the territory of another State….” No one, even the most extreme supporter of the aggression, denies that Bush and associates did just that.

    We might also do well to recall Jackson’s eloquent words at Nuremberg on the principle of universality: “If certain acts of violation of treaties are crimes, they are crimes whether the United States does them or whether Germany does them, and we are not prepared to lay down a rule of criminal conduct against others which we would not be willing to have invoked against us.” And elsewhere: “We must never forget that the record on which we judge these defendants is the record on which history will judge us tomorrow. To pass these defendants a poisoned chalice is to put it to our own lips as well.”

    It is also clear that alleged intentions are irrelevant. Japanese fascists apparently did believe that by ravaging China they were laboring to turn it into an “earthly paradise.” We don’t know whether Hitler believed that he was defending Germany from the “wild terror” of the Poles, or was taking over Czechoslovakia to protect its population from ethnic conflict and provide them with the benefits of a superior culture, or was saving the glories of the civilization of the Greeks from barbarians of East and West, as his acolytes claimed (Martin Heidegger). And it’s even conceivable that Bush and company believed that they were protecting the world from destruction by Saddam’s nuclear weapons. All irrelevant, though ardent loyalists on all sides may try to convince themselves otherwise.

    We are left with two choices: either Bush and associates are guilty of the “supreme international crime” including all the evils that follow, crimes that go vastly beyond anything attributed to bin Laden; or else we declare that the Nuremberg proceedings were a farce and that the allies were guilty of judicial murder. Again, that is entirely independent of the question of the guilt of those charged: established by the Nuremberg Tribunal in the case of the Nazi criminals, plausibly surmised from the outset in the case of bin Laden.

    A few days before the bin Laden assassination, Orlando Bosch died peacefully in Florida, where he resided along with his terrorist accomplice Luis Posada Carilles, and many others. After he was accused of dozens of terrorist crimes by the FBI, Bosch was granted a presidential pardon by Bush I over the objections of the Justice Department, which found the conclusion “inescapable that it would be prejudicial to the public interest for the United States to provide a safe haven for Bosch. ”The coincidence of deaths at once calls to mind the Bush II doctrine, which has “already become a de facto rule of international relations,” according to the noted Harvard international relations specialist Graham Allison. The doctrine revokes “the sovereignty of states that provide sanctuary to terrorists,” Allison writes, referring to the pronouncement of Bush II that “those who harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves,” directed to the Taliban. Such states, therefore, have lost their sovereignty and are fit targets for bombing and terror; for example, the state that harbored Bosch and his associate -- not to mention some rather more significant candidates. When Bush issued this new “de facto rule of international relations,” no one seemed to notice that he was calling for invasion and destruction of the US and murder of its criminal presidents.

    None of this is problematic, of course, if we reject Justice Jackson’s principle of universality, and adopt instead the principle that the US is self-immunized against international law and conventions -- as, in fact, the government has frequently made very clear, an important fact, much too little understood.

    It is also worth thinking about the name given to the operation: Operation Geronimo. The imperial mentality is so profound that few seem able to perceive that the White House is glorifying bin Laden by calling him “Geronimo” -- the leader of courageous resistance to the invaders who sought to consign his people to the fate of “that hapless race of native Americans, which we are exterminating with such merciless and perfidious cruelty, among the heinous sins of this nation, for which I believe God will one day bring [it] to judgement,” in the words of the great grand strategist John Quincy Adams, the intellectual architect of manifest destiny, long after his own contributions to these sins had passed. Some did comprehend, not surprisingly. The remnants of that hapless race protested vigorously. Choice of the name is reminiscent of the ease with which we name our murder weapons after victims of our crimes: Apache, Blackhawk. Tomahawk,… We might react differently if the Luftwaffe were to call its fighter planes "Jew" and "Gypsy".

  15. #531
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    The examples mentioned would fall under the category “American exceptionalism,” were it not for the fact that easy suppression of one’s own crimes is virtually ubiquitous among powerful states, at least those that are not defeated and forced to acknowledge reality. Other current illustrations are too numerous to mention. To take just one, of great current significance, consider Obama’s terror weapons (drones) in Pakistan. Suppose that during the 1980s, when they were occupying Afghanistan, the Russians had carried out targeted assassinations in Pakistan aimed at those who were financing, arming and training the insurgents – quite proudly and openly. For example, targeting the CIA station chief in Islamabad, who explained that he “loved” the “noble goal” of his mission: to “kill Soviet Soldiers…not to liberate Afghanistan.” There is no need to imagine the reaction, but there is a crucial distinction: that was them, this is us.

    What are the likely consequences of the killing of bin Laden? For the Arab world, it will probably mean little. He had long been a fading presence, and in the past few months was eclipsed by the Arab Spring. His significance in the Arab world is captured by the headline in the New York Times for an op-ed by Middle East/al Qaeda specialist Gilles Kepel; “Bin Laden was Dead Already.” Kepel writes that few in the Arab world are likely to care. That headline might have been dated far earlier, had the US not mobilized the Jihadi movement by the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq, as suggested by the intelligence agencies and scholarship. As for the Jihadi movement, within it bin Laden was doubtless a venerated symbol, but apparently did not play much more of a role for this “network of networks,” as analysts call it, which undertake mostly independent operations.

    The most immediate and significant consequences are likely to be in Pakistan. There is much discussion of Washington's anger that Pakistan didn't turn over bin Laden. Less is said about the fury in Pakistan that the US invaded their territory to carry out a political assassination. Anti-American fervor had already reached a very high peak in Pakistan, and these events are likely to exacerbate it.

    Pakistan is the most dangerous country on earth, also the world’s fastest growing nuclear power, with a huge arsenal. It is held together by one stable institution, the military. One of the leading specialists on Pakistan and its military, Anatol Lieven, writes that “if the US ever put Pakistani soldiers in a position where they felt that honour and patriotism required them to fight America, many would be very glad to do so.” And if Pakistan collapsed, an “absolutely inevitable result would be the flow of large numbers of highly trained ex-soldiers, including explosive experts and engineers, to extremist groups.” That is the primary threat he sees of leakage of fissile materials to Jihadi hands, a horrendous eventuality.

    The Pakistani military have already been pushed to the edge by US attacks on Pakistani sovereignty. One factor is the drone attacks in Pakistan that Obama escalated immediately after the killing of bin Laden, rubbing salt in the wounds. But there is much more, including the demand that the Pakistani military cooperate in the US war against the Afghan Taliban, whom the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis, the military included, see as fighting a just war of resistance against an invading army, according to Lieven.

    The bin Laden operation could have been the spark that set off a conflagration, with dire consequences, particularly if the invading force had been compelled to fight its way out, as was anticipated. Perhaps the assassination was perceived as an “act of vengeance,” as Robertson concludes. Whatever the motive was, it could hardly have been security. As in the case of the “supreme international crime” in Iraq, the bin Laden assassination illustrates that security is often not a high priority for state action, contrary to received doctrine.

    There is much more to say, but even the most obvious and elementary facts should provide us with a good deal to think about.

    http://www.zcommunications.org/there...y-noam-chomsky

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Salaam

    You couldnt make this up, adding insult to injury. . . . . . .

    Pakistan returns helicopter used in Bin Laden operation

    Pakistan has returned the wreckage of a US helicopter destroyed during the raid that killed al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden, the Pentagon has said.

    A spokesman said the remains of the aircraft were back on US soil having been returned "over the weekend".

    It is believed the helicopter was a UH-60 Blackhawk, heavily modified to make it quieter and less visible to radar.

    After developing problems, the helicopter - one of up to four used during the 2 May raid - was blown up.

    The team of Navy Seals did not want sensitive technology falling into enemy hands.

    "The wreckage of the helicopter destroyed in the Bin Laden operation was returned over the weekend and is now back in the United States," said Pentagon spokesman Col Dave Lapan.

    Its delivery meets a key US demand of Pakistan following the mission to kill the al-Qaeda leader, which Islamabad called a violation of its sovereignty.

    Pakistani officials were not told of the raid before it took place in Abbottabad, only 30 miles (50km) from Pakistan's capital, Islamabad.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13531607

  17. #533
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Salaam

    Another update

    Osama bin Laden death: CIA to search Abbottabad compound

    Revelation that CIA forensics team to search for al-Qaida materials comes as Clinton prepares to visit Islamabad


    Pakistan has agreed to allow a CIA forensics team into Osama bin Laden's compound to search for al-Qaida materials that may be hidden in the walls or underground. The revelation, reported by the Washington Post, comes on the eve of a visit to Islamabad by the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, in the most senior interaction between the US and Pakistan since the special forces raid on 2 May. The fate of Bin Laden's house in Abbottabad, 35 miles north of Islamabad, had been one of many sensitive points in tense relations between the two countries. Some Pakistani officials favoured demolishing the three-storey house, which they believed had become a symbol of humiliation.

    But the US has quietly pressed Pakistan to leave it standing, as they believe it may contain valuable intelligence missed by the navy Seals who stormed it, killing the al Qaida leader. Now CIA agents could enter the house in the coming days – a sign of a slow thaw in relations that Clinton will seek to build upon during meetings with military and civilian leaders in Islamabad.

    US navy Seals have already seized hundreds of computer disks that are being combed by CIA officials in Virginia. They say it is their largest cache of al-Qaida intelligence ever. Now US intelligence will use infrared cameras and other devices to check for documents or other materials possibly hidden inside walls, safes or underground. Previously the CIA has only viewed the house from satellite images or from a safe house that it operated in Abbotttabad for months without Pakistani knowledge.

    Two weeks ago Pakistani parliamentarians closed ranks against the US incursion, condemning it as a gross breach of sovereignty. But behind the scenes, senior officials on both sides have worked quietly to put the relationship back on track. The CIA deputy director Michael Morell negotiated access to the Abbottabad during meetings in Islambad with the ISI chief, General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the Washington Post reported.

    The ISI also agreed to show the CIA materials it recovered from Bin Laden's house, while the CIA is seeking ISI assistance in analysing some records seized in the raid.

    A senior ISI official told the Guardian he had no information about the latest development.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...n-compound-cia

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Salaam

    Another update

    'CIA informants' detained over bin Laden raid

    Pakistan reported to have arrested five people for allegedly giving information that aided US in Abbottabad operation.


    Pakistani intelligence officials have reportedly arrested alleged informants who gave information to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) before the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, the former al-Qaeda leader. The New York Times reported on Tuesday that five people had been detained, including an army major who officials said copied the license plates of cars visiting bin Laden's compound in the city of Abbottabad, weeks before the US operation.

    But Pakistani army spokesman Major General Athar Abbas on Wednesday denied reports that officials had arrested the army major, saying the news was "false and totally baseless". Neither the army nor Pakistan's intelligence agency would confirm or deny the overall report about the detentions, however.

    The fate of those arrested is unclear, but US officials said that Leon Panetta, the CIA director, raised the issue when he travelled to Islamabad last week to meet with Pakistani military and intelligence officials. US-Pakistani relations have been strained over the raid by Navy SEALs on Pakistani territory, which was seen as a blow to the prestige of the country's military.

    Officials said the arrests of the alleged informants was just the latest evidence of the fractured relationship between the two nations.

    Strained ties

    The New York Times also said that at a closed briefing last week, members of the Senate Intelligence Committee asked Michael Morell, the deputy CIA director, to rate Pakistan's co-operation with the US on counterterrorism operations, on a scale of one to 10. "Three," Morell replied, according to officials familiar with the exchange, the newspaper said.

    However, US officials speaking to the newspaper cautioned that Morell's comment was a snapshot of the current relationship and did not represent the Obama administration's overall assessment. "We have a strong relationship with our Pakistani counterparts and work through issues when they arise,'' Marie Harf, a CIA spokeswoman, told the publication.

    "Director [Leon] Panetta had productive meetings last week in Islamabad. It's a crucial partnership, and we will continue to work together in the fight against al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups who threaten our country and theirs."

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/as...118453117.html

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    yeah I heard their hilarious commentary on CNBC today, like how dare these people not be glad that we raided their country and killed the 'bad guy' reminds me of Bush's cartoonic speeches on the axis of evil, freedom fries and protecting our freedom.. they ought to look for new slogans to convince their own citizens why they're in debt, out of jobs while spending billions on ailing schemes in sovereign nations!

    May Allah swt yi3iz almoslmeen wa yazeed alkfeereen khosara..

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    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Osama Bin Laden has been killed


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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    This man should have been brought to trial, not 'executed in the field'. At times I weep for my country, which could be so much greater than it is.

  22. #537
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Salaam

    Finally, seems the government is actually developing a spine, though for how long?


    Pakistan expels British trainers of anti-Taliban soldiers

    US raid on bin Laden compound thought to be reason for expulsion of team of military advisers


    Pakistan has expelled a team of British military trainers sent to help with the fight against the Taliban and al-Qaida, as the fallout from the US raid that killed Osama bin Laden continues to rock relations between Islamabad and its western allies. The Ministry of Defence confirmed that at least 18 military advisers, deployed as part of a £15m programme to train the paramilitary Frontier Corps, have been withdrawn from Pakistan. Most are already back in the UK. Their removal is seen as an indirect casualty of worsening relations between Pakistan and the US over the 2 May Navy Seal raid in Abbottabad, which was conducted without Pakistani consent.

    Although British relations with Pakistan are warmer, the embattled army, stung by a barrage of public criticism, is keen to demonstrate its independence from all western allies. Since Bin Laden's death, Pakistan has sent home at least 120 US military trainers, most of whom were engaged in training the FC. The British team, a mix of seasoned officers and NCOs, had been stationed at a British-funded FC base near the capital of Balochistan, Quetta. The training scheme began last August and was scheduled to run until at least summer 2013. The MoD hopes to redeploy the team once the tensions abate.

    In an email statement, a spokeswoman said the trainers had been withdrawn "on a temporary basis" at the request of the Pakistani government in response to "security concerns".

    "The training teams will continue their own training and will be ready to redeploy at the first possible opportunity," she told the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.

    The 60,000-strong FC, which is deployed along the length of the 1,600-mile border with Afghanistan, has long been in the frontline of Pakistani efforts to combat Taliban militancy and flush al-Qaida from its tribal havens. But its troops are considered under-trained and ill-equipped, and Pakistan's western allies have in recent years prioritised a multimillion pound effort to bolster their skills and equipment. That programme has now virtually collapsed as US-Pakistani relations fall to their lowest point in a decade. The trouble began in January after a CIA contractor, Raymond Davis, shot dead two men in Lahore, prompting the withdrawal of a quarter of the US training force.

    The reductions accelerated following the Bin Laden raid, as the military sought to signal its displeasure with its western allies – in particular the CIA – and to boost its faltering public support. After a 9 June meeting to discuss the crisis, the military leadership issued a statement in which it disputed American claims of $15bn (£9.4bn) in aid over the past decade, and suggested that future US military assistance should be diverted to civilian economic programmes. CIA drone strikes were "not acceptable under any circumstances," the military said.

    The US says it wants to rebuild the relationship, deemed "too important to fail" but tensions have erupted at ground level. Last week the Pakistani media reported that US trainers had clashed with base guards when prevented from retrieving personal effects after being ordered to leave. The US embassy in Islamabad denied the incident. The FC, which draws its recruits from the Pashtun tribes along the Afghan border, has suffered heavy losses in recent years. Its paramilitary troops have led assaults on mountainous Taliban strongholds and been targeted in numerous suicide bombings. In May, a large attack on a training centre of the related Frontier Constabulary killed 100 young recruits.

    But the FC has also been accused of numerous human rights violations, particularly in Balochistan where the British base is located. Human rights groups say the FC has played a central role in a vicious crackdown on Baloch nationalist insurgents, who are unrelated to the Taliban, that has resulted in hundreds of illegal abductions and extra-judicial executions. Dawn newspaper has reported that at least 170 suspected nationalists, many abducted by FC personnel, had been killed since July 2010. Most bore the marks of severe torture.

    A furore erupted last month after video footage showed FC troops shooting dead five unarmed Chechens, including a pregnant woman, at a checkpost in Quetta. The government says it is investigating the incident. The British team at the Quetta camp was reportedly working alongside six US advisers, helping to train 360 recruits at a time on 12-week courses. The US has funded a much larger FC training centre on the outskirts of Peshawar.

    A military spokesman in Islamabad said between 200 and 300 US military personnel remain in the country.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...liban-soldiers
    Last edited by سيف الله; 06-27-2011 at 11:57 AM.

  23. #538
    سيف الله's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Salaam

    Another update on the aftermath

    CIA vaccination ruse sparks fear in Pakistan

    ISLAMABAD - PAKISTANI officials and international health organisations expressed concern on Wednesday that a phony CIA vaccination programme meant to obtain DNA evidence in the hunt for Osama bin Laden could harm legitimate immunisation programmes in the country.

    This fear is especially pronounced because of the rising problem of polio. Pakistan was the only country to record an increase in cases of the crippling disease last year and now has the highest incidence of polio in the world.

    Vaccination programmes to combat polio and other diseases in Pakistan were already hampered by fighting with Islamist militants that blocked access by health workers to certain areas, especially in the north-west. Some Taleban commanders have also declared vaccines as against Islam.

    The CIA recruited a Pakistani doctor to run a Hepatitis B vaccination drive in the north-west town of Abbottabad in March in an attempt to get DNA from Osama's children and confirm the Al-Qaeda chief was holed up there, the British Guardian newspaper first reported earlier this week. The Associated Press has confirmed details about the vaccination programme from US officials.

    The Guardian said it wasn't clear if the alleged scheme helped confirm Osama's presence, but cited one source as suggesting the attempt failed. The US went ahead with a covert Navy Seal raid that killed the Al-Qaeda chief in Abbottabad on May 2.

    Neither the White House nor the CIA would speak about the programme. A senior US official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the programme remains secret, said the decision to use vaccinations as a cover was a rare move that reflected the seriousness of the hunt for Osama.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking...ry_690477.html

  24. #539
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    I Bet barack obama will call himself a "hero" after fabricating some news that Osama was plotting new terror attacks on 10th anniverasary

    http://timesofindia.hotklix.com/link...tting-new-9-11
    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    When truth is hurled at falsehood , falsehood perishes. because falsehood by its nature is bound to perish [21:18- Holy quran]

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  26. #540
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    these events always coincide with their low ratings.. now that America needs to raise its debt ceiling so it doesn't declare bankruptcy.. this way they can justify to themselves that their bankruptcy was all worth it!
    Osama Bin Laden has been killed

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Osama Bin Laden has been killed



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