Muslim World Silent on Syrian Government Massacre

format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew

This saddens me too. I started this thread with the purpose of highlighting Muslim on Muslim atrocities but Muslims over here on this board are so blind that even in it they find WESTERN CONSPIRACY.

Allawis aren't Muslim.. have you read up on them?

best,

format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew

Can you quote a news source which mentions this atrocity?

Problems there isn't one, especially not western media , maybe pakistani. there are a few ''news-sources'' on this forum though. Sis Periwinkle told me about this, and she is pakistani so.

Indeed Sis Bluebell now check this:

It will not be long before Bashar al-Assad will sit naked and battered, haemorrhaging to death on the curb of history like other uninhibited despots before him. As his regime hurtles chaotically out of control amidst an ever-reddening blur of desperate savagery, allies are solemnly administering Last Rites, predators and victims are circling for a feast they have long yearned for, and the many lies, secrets and bones buried in the family mausoleum are finally about to be undug.

Amongst the secrets is one already mentioned in popular circles by the late singer, Ibrahim Qashoush. A few months ago, Qashoush stood on a platform in central Hama and sung in support of the uprising like he usually did. However, one of his lines was a late addition: 'O Maher [Al-Assad, the brother of Bashar] you are a coward; an agent of the Americans'. Though apparently inconsequential, a few days later Qashoush was found dead with his throat slit open.

Such secrets pertaining to the agency of the Assad family are already obvious to those who know the regime most intimately. The minoritarian Assad regime has long deployed and exploited fraudulent notions of pan-Arabism and political resistance only to mandate its existence. For beyond the popular sloganeering, the Assad regime is deeply intimate and at ease with its alleged enemies.

The Assads' blatant historical cooperation with the United States of America on key strategic issues and latent agreement with Israel are easily demonstrated. And these forty years of treachery to the 'Arab and Palestinian cause', supposedly the cause de celebre of Damascus, have left visible remnants in Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine and, of course, Syria that are visible to all.

Case One: Israeli-Syrian Peace Negotiations and Mutual Confidence

The Golan Heights, a plateau of great strategic importance at about a fifth the size of Lebanon, has been occupied by Israel right throughout the tenures of Hafez and Bashar al-Assad. The Syrian military, however, has not engaged the Israeli Defence Forces in an attempt to liberate its own occupied territory since 1973. Instead, an agreement in 1974, signed by the government of Hafez al-Assad, has allowed Israel to extend a de facto annexation over the Golan Heights with no challenge.

Furthermore, Hafez Al-Assad had even promised Benyamin Netanyahu to give up parts of Syrian territory to Israel in a prospective peace deal. Far from 'liberating Palestine from the river to the sea', as Al-Assad once claimed he'd do, he offered to give up the Hermon to Israel so that the Jewish state might keep an eye on its eastern border. Netanyahu, in statements documented by Israel's leading paper Yedioth Ahronoth, says: "He gave me the Hermon. I must say that I was surprised, but he gave me the Hermon and I was pleased."

Such concessions, which contradict the apparent commitment to 'liberating Palestine' and instead seek to achieve peace and recognise Israel, are a historical forte of the Assad regime. The 1991 Madrid Peace Conference, which the Syrian government participated in and followed up with direct talks with Israel right throughout the 90's, was a precursor to flirtation and talks between the two parties the following decade.
Between September 2004 and July 2006, the Syrian and Israeli representatives reached a 'formulation for peace' through secret talks. The Assad regime was willing to sacrifice Hamas, its alleged ally, in an attempt to appease Israel in the agreement. These negotiations continued unhindered under Turkish mediation between 2008 and 2010, despite Israel's Operation Cast Lead in 2009 that led to the death of more than a thousand civilians in Gaza.

This willingness on the part of the Assads to make peace with Israel, normalise relations with it and recognise its existence paints an image contrary to the popular rhetoric of the Syrian regime. And it is for this very reason that Israel's leading security and political officials have expressed great concern at the thought of the Assad regime collapsing.

For example, Amos Gilad, the Director of Political-Military Affairs at the Israel Ministry of Defense, stated that the removal of Assad would be a 'devastating crisis fοr Israel.' Similarly, Israel's prominent daily newspaper, Ha'aretz, ran an editorial immediately after the start of the Syrian uprising declaring Assad to be 'Israel's favourite dictator of all' and that 'it seems Assad has wall-to-wall support here, as though he were king of Israel'.

Such sentiments have also been expressed by the Syrian regime itself. Rami Makhlouf, President Bashar al-Assad's cousin and one of his confidants, waved the stability card at Israel during his May interview with the New York Times when he stated: "If there is no stability here, there's no way there will be stability in Israel." As such, only through the survival of the Assad regime can Israel maintain its stability and security, creating a relationship in diametric contradiction to the grand claims of the Syrian regime and its supporters.
Case Two: The Gulf War and Syria's Cooperation with the United States

During the 1991 Gulf War, the Assad regime chose to actively support the US-led campaign that resulted in the death of thousands of Iraqi civilians. Despite the fact that Saddam Hussein was fighting a coalition led by the West and lobbing scud missiles at Israel, Hafez al-Assad still opted to side with the United States of America and send in troops to support the campaign. Singlehandedly, such should have been sufficient to nullify the regime's pan-Arab and resistance credentials forever.

Furthermore, the Syrian regime cooperated with the United States of America in Lebanon. President Bush Senior and subsequent presidents entrusted the Syrian regime with controlling and occupying Lebanon for fifteen years following the Taef Accord to end the Lebanese Civil War. The security agencies of both countries also cooperated extensively during the war in subduing Palestinian resistance groups and arming militias loyal to their mutual strategic interests.

This cooperation between the US and Syria also extends to intelligence, the most notable recent case being that of Maher Arar, who was transferred between Syrian and American hands under the charge of being a member of Al-Qaeda. Ironically, this process took place during the tenure of George Bush, who allegedly designated Syria as part of the 'Axis of Evil', and had supposedly cut off relations with Damascus after the assassination of Rafiq Al-Hariri in Lebanon in 2005.

Such cases demonstrate a heightened level of confidence and trust between Washington and an autocrat who has demonstratively and apparently done nothing but denounce the United States of America. Of course, the real relationship between the Assads and American administrations of the past four decades was beyond strong; one manifestation of which is in the confidence between Bashar al-Assad and John Kerry, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and an ardent pro-Israel senator.

Kerry, Congress's point man on engaging the Syrian regime, met Assad six times in two years and called him, along with Hillary Clinton, a reformer even after the violent crackdown in March of 2011. Assad even found a confidant in Kerry according to the Wall Street Journal. The Journal recounts how'Kerry described how the Syrian leader bemoaned the growing conservatism in Syria' and the fact that Assad's wife 'had to wear a head-scarf when visiting Damascus's historic Umayyad mosque'.

Assad's strong relationship with American senators, House representatives and diplomats is further demonstrated in cables released by Wikileaks. In a meeting in March of 2009, just five weeks after the end of the Gaza War, Assad met American diplomats and denounced Hamas as 'uninvited guests' akin to the Muslim Brotherhood his father massacred in 1982. And in contrast to such enmity towards resistance forces, Assad emphasised that he 'saw two key common interests between Syria and the US: peace in the region and combating terrorism' and that the two administrations 'shared a common interest on 70 percent of the issues at hand'.

Case Three: A Bloody Contribution to the Palestinian Cause

One of the great ironies of the Syrian regime's history is that its mechanised divisions have murdered Palestinians above all. In 1976, the Syrian military invaded Lebanon to assist right-wing Christian forces, who happened to be allies of Israel, against the Palestinian forces led by Yasser Arafat. A few weeks later they again lined up alongside racist Christian militias, such as the Guardians of the Cedars, to commit unspeakable atrocities in the Tel az-Za'atar refugee camp.

Over three thousand Palestinian refugees, essentially the most downtrodden and oppressed of any community in the Middle East, were slaughtered in cold blood by Syria and the Christian, Israeli proxies in Tel az-Za'tar. To add insult to injury, the camp was then bulldozed and its refugees relocated and scattered all over Lebanon, many to be eventually slaughtered by the Syrian-Israeli double-agent Elie Hobeika and his militia in the Sabra and Shatila massacre.

Bashar al-Assad recently revived his father's fetish for Palestinian blood by using gunboats and ground troops to attack a refugee camp off the Syrian coast in August, 2011. Dozens were killed and over five thousand people were forced to leave according to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency.

Conclusion

The Assads might not have been blatant and direct allies of the West and Israel like some other forces in the region over the past four decades, but they were definitely complicit to the international, West-dominated political order. They were without doubt in agreement with the United States of America on strategic issues and in active, serial cooperation with Israel. All the while, they upheld a popular façade of resistance and anti-Americanism. As Israel's foreign minister said in November 2010, 'Assad is enjoying the best of both worlds'.

While the regime may have funded resistance groups for an array of purposes, its own artillery has only found the flesh of those in Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. Not a single bullet has been fired over the Golan Heights or at Israel for forty years, and that remains a supreme reality that supersedes all the rambling propaganda the regime is now putting out.

So when the brave people of Syrian rip down the imaginary curtain once and for all, the resistance paradigm in the Middle East will not be compromised. In fact, the seeds for a genuine and authentic challenge to Israel will be taking form and re-shaping the Levant forever. This is the beginning, not the end.
http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/comment/13467-dont-weep-over-the-grand-delusion-of-an-assadic-resistance/

i believe honestly the only thing that the west is arming syrian mujahids is that the west does it for its own agenda, for dajjal's one, so they will pave the way for an invasion. I see a new iraq coming. The west or NATO is gonna be their ''saviour'' while they only want to kill syrians for the sake of israel. Just like al-assad is doing.
Israel keeps no secret of it either:

Israel no longer wants to ‘preserve’ the Syrian regime: report

Israel has changed its stance on the future of the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, an Israeli newspaper reported on Wednesday citing an Israeli military chief.

A report by Israel’s Haaretz daily quoted a European diplomat, close to the talks held by the Israeli military intelligence chief, Maj. Gen. Aviv Kochavi’s in the United States, as saying that the Israeli intelligence community has changed its stance on Syria and now sees the Jewish state as “better off” if Assad’s regime was toppled.

Israel believes Assad’s fate is sealed, and the only question is how long his regime will last before it is eventually toppled, Kochavi said, according to the diplomat.

Two weeks ago, Kochavi was on a secret visit to Washington and the U.N. headquarters in New York, where he discussed Iran’s nuclear program, developments in Syria and Hezbollah’s increasing influence in Lebanon. In Washington, he met with senior White House and State Department officials, as well as senior officials in the Defense Department Intelligence Agency and the CIA.

Israel, however, fears that Islamists will seize the opportunity, amid the roiling Syrian crisis, and hijack the Syrian government if Assad’s regime was toppled.

The Jewish state, which is closely monitoring events in Syria, dreads the aftermath of a toppled Syrian regime and that it could see the Syrian Golan Heights fall in the hands of terrorist groups like al-Qaeda.

Israel has warned of similar dangerous security vacuum in the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt.

In early May, Israel warned Egypt that it has to control the rising unrest in Sinai if it wants to preserve peace with Israel.

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/20...16/214419.html




look at the word ''preserve''.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس

Maybe that's a hoax but this isn't

my respected sis lamees, i edited the post to show how they themselves are being very careful to initially assert accusations without getting their story together.

the picz i posted were from the london evening standard.

and because they couldn't directly put it on the army, they're trying to claim that it is "civilians loyal to assad".

ladies and gentlemen, do we not see a full blown murderous propaganda campaign in bloom here?

and are these not the people who are spreading this news and trying to capitalize on it in order to "save the people"???

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000

sis lamees, i edited the post to show how they themselves are being very careful to initially assert accusations without getting their story together.

the picz i posted were from the london evening standard.

and because they couldn't directly put it on the army, they're trying to claim that it is "civilians loyal to assad".

ladies and gentlemen, do we not see a full blown murderous propaganda campaign in bloom here?

I am not denying there's a disgusting hand in all of this the same hand perhaps that's making a filool like shafeeq of Egypt who should in fact stand trial abut the Muslim brotherhood for the presidency-- but I am also exposed to many things in Arabic and news that the majority of people aren't exposed to. At the End of the day it is our Ahel as'sunnah brothers and sisters and children being killed while Anan and NATO etc paint a picture of their vision for the middle east... What ails us that we can't stand to them or in the least aid our brothers & sisters?

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000

my respected sis lamees, i edited the post to show how they themselves are being very careful to initially assert accusations without getting their story together.

the picz i posted were from the london evening standard.

and because they couldn't directly put it on the army, they're trying to claim that it is "civilians loyal to assad".

ladies and gentlemen, do we not see a full blown murderous propaganda campaign in bloom here?

and are these not the people who are spreading this news and trying to capitalize on it in order to "save the people"???

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/243707.html

iranian source but the pics don't lie

but i still believe assad needs to be toppled, its a baathist government and still murderous. Ive talked with syrians and they are all against him.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس

Allawis aren't Muslim.. have you read up on them?

So they are a branch of Shia. Let God be the judge on who is a true Muslim and who isn't. The world defines Shia as a sect of Islam and so do I. A Muslim is a follower of religion of Islam. Let's not play God here.

i agree with you on assad's baathist regime,

and whoever does not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the disbelievers.
Quran 5:44

but i definitely don't want to be deceived like they did with the planet when it was saddam's baathist regime.
that's over one million of our brothers and sisters, dead, imprisoned, tortured, raped, beaten to death, and even skinned alive.

the story went from "saddam loyalists" to "insurgents", to "Islamic insurgents" to "muslim terrorists".

because for sure there will be a bloodbath if nato or their proxy arab governments invade.
and the people of syria will not tolerate a foreign invasion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_(testimony)

Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;
but they (ever) strive to do corruption on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do corruption.
Quran 5:64

cashew, i'm noticing a pattern with you where you are quick to "play god" and judge and call any random government which does not establish Islam a Muslim government (against the dictates of the quran), and use that to tarnish the reputation of muslims, you have been very quick to accuse Muslims at the drop of a hat as soon as bbc or cnn come out with a news report.

O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief:
(whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,
- men who will listen to any lie,
- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee.
They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.
Quran 5:41


but i have yet to see you openly support armed defence of our Muslim brothers and sisters in Iraq and Afganistan,
does the love of Muslims and fear of God give way to fear of being surveilled?

format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew

This saddens me too. I started this thread with the purpose of highlighting Muslim on Muslim atrocities but Muslims over here on this board are so blind that even in it they find WESTERN CONSPIRACY.

the way your earlier post came across was: we are meant to be vilifying Muslims here, why are "muslims on this board" (indicating that you're not one of us) turning "their" sights on the benevolent followers of satan.

btw, look up the definition of the word conspircacy, i'm sure even you won't try to pretend that the western leaders are discussing all of these plans in public.

know that those who rush to appease the enemies of Islam will ROAST in hell

I don't think outside forces can actually resolve what's going on in Syria. Even if the Muslim world spoke out in it's current state, I doubt they could do anything useful. :/

format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew

So they are a branch of Shia. Let God be the judge on who is a true Muslim and who isn't. The world defines Shia as a sect of Islam and so do I. A Muslim is a follower of religion of Islam. Let's not play God here.

Are they a branch of Islam' and let God Judge?




It is frightening when you can't tell right from wrong out of 'political correctness' or whatever it is you subscribe to to govern how you reason.

best,

How much i despise the syrian government, i deny that both Syrian opposition and Syrian army are behind these massacres. It is rebel-controlled territory. the bodies weren't killed by shellings but executions. people believe its al-assads secret militia, i believe there is a third party right there, killing innocents. US blackwaters moving via iraq? Maybe. To pave the way for a faster US-led invasion. Look, who caused the syrian twin bombings? Not al-assad nor opposition. The elites have their hands on it by funding assad and rebels, and to offer a solution: ''Our peacekeeping nato forces need to go into syria and create a peacefull government'' typical dajjal propaganda man.

you know why i came to this conclusion? Well, a christian brother told me a story when he served in the romanian army under communist rule. very interesting story...

check this out and i'm sure you'll get a feeling that it's not as it appears:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=eri...ient=firefox-a

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000

check this out and i'm sure you'll get a feeling that it's not as it appears:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=eri...ient=firefox-a

I know about Blackwater, they are still in iraq(Between 8000-10,000) and probably the cause of recent bombings. They're very rude people and only do it for the $$$ to help the goals of the USA and israel. I believe certainly they're behind massacres, including in syria. During the start of revolution, masked snipers attacked both government forces and opposition, so the ''blame-game'' would start. This was the exactly thing what the christian brother was facing, when the romanian revolution started. It started peacefull, until his army unit got attacked by a sniper (A comrade got hit in his leg). They killed the sniper and found him laying on the ground, the necklace was very suprising: Israeli star of david and the sniper was american made

format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew

So they are a branch of Shia. Let God be the judge on who is a true Muslim and who isn't. The world defines Shia as a sect of Islam and so do I. A Muslim is a follower of religion of Islam. Let's not play God here.

Salaam,

I do not think it is wise to call people that are following Islam incorrectly as non-Muslims. Some might be ignorant or do not have the educational background to understand Islam properly. Others need more time to understand the true version of Islam. I personally do not understand Arabic and have to rely on Islamic scholars to teach me about the scriptures. As soon as we label other sects as non-Muslims, it is difficult to establish dialogue and to correct them.

Overall, I'm very reluctant to call other people kaffir. However, I think correcting them is acceptable, as long as it is done in a polite and timely manner.

EDIT:

I think it is a possibility the Syrian government played a role in the massacre. There might be other groups involved. However, I doubt any of us know who is truly responsible.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000

cashew, i'm noticing a pattern with you where you are quick to "play god" and judge and call any random government which does not establish Islam a Muslim government (against the dictates of the quran), and use that to tarnish the reputation of muslims, you have been very quick to accuse Muslims at the drop of a hat as soon as bbc or cnn come out with a news report.

People here if they know me at all by my previous posts know that I like to highlight our(Muslims) own faults, atrocities, sins, etc. I am a firm believer that we need to clean our own house first before we start yelling at others(west). Why is it easy for us(Muslims) to see an ant on someone's else lawn while we do not see the elephant in our own backyard. And as for western sources, yes I find it boring to read sources which are pro-Arab, Islam, Muslim. I like to read thier(western) perspective and I find it more interesting. And if they write something good abt us(Muslims, Islam), I am the first one to share that as well.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000

i have yet to see you openly support armed defence of our Muslim brothers and sisters in Iraq and Afganistan

Because I hear more civilians die in suicide bomb attacks then American or Nato troops. Because I hear the Taliban poisoning little girls for attending school. Because I hear a lot of things which I do not or will never support. BTW, have you ever seen me supporting the American invasion? or drone attacks? So why are you making assumptions??

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000

does the love of Muslims and fear of God give way to fear of being surveilled?

Certainly not.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000

will ROAST in hell

I like what u did there...

format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew

People here if they know me at all by my previous posts know that I like to highlight our(Muslims) own faults, atrocities, sins, etc. I am a firm believer that we need to clean our own house first before we start yelling at others(west). Why is it easy for us(Muslims) to see an ant on someone's else lawn while we do not see the elephant in our own backyard. And as for western sources, yes I find it boring to read sources which are pro-Arab, Islam, Muslim. I like to read thier(western) perspective and I find it more interesting. And if they right something good abt us(Muslims, Islam), I am the first one to share that as well.

Salaam,

I admit that some Muslims have a difficult time correcting other Muslims that commit criminal offences, especially Muslims that appear to be practicing. Overall, we should correct Muslims and non-Muslims that have done wrong, as long as we are not judgemental.

Because I hear more civilians die in suicide bomb attacks then American or Nato troops. Because I hear the Taliban poisoning little girls for attending school. Because I hear a lot of things which I do not or will never support. BTW, have you ever seen me supporting the American invasion? or drone attacks? So why are you making assumptions??

Keep in mind, we do not know how many civilians NATO and American troops have killed. I do agree there has been violence in Afghanistan for a long time and I never heard many Muslims speak about these atrocities until Bush declare war. There are war lords who have done terrible things...

format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos

I do not think it is wise to call people that are following Islam incorrectly as non-Muslims

I don't think it is fair to call people who don't follow the religion of Islam Muslim simply because they're under that impression.
There's a difference between a fasiq, an ignorant Muslims and a person completely outside the folds.
Islam rests upon five if I am to ignore Islam itself and just pay attention to the pillars upon which is stands and find that their declaration isn't to Allah or his prophet, they don't make their prayers as we do and as is prescribed or fulfill the other pillars then by what right should they be called Muslim?
To begin with there are conditions to the pillars, so what of people who don't even follow those all together?..
I mean come on..

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس

Are they a branch of Islam' and let God Judge?




It is frightening when you can't tell right from wrong out of 'political correctness' or whatever it is you subscribe to to govern how you reason.

best,

I am sure this does not reflect the beliefs or opinion of the whole of the Alawi sect. And if it does, Allah will punish them accordingly for their "shirk" on the day of judgment. Until then, let's not play GOD.

format_quote Originally Posted by لميس

I don't think it is fair to call people who don't follow the religion of Islam Muslim simply because they're under that impression.
There's a difference between a fasiq, an ignorant Muslims and a person completely outside the folds.
Islam rests upon five if I am to ignore Islam itself and just pay attention to the pillars upon which is stands and find that their declaration isn't to Allah or his prophet, they don't make their prayers as we do and as is described, nor fulfill the other pillars then by what right should they be called Muslim?
To begin with there are conditions to the pillars, so what of people who don't even follow those..
I mean come on..

I personally will not label other sects as kaffir. I'm not going to risk it. I rather just correct other Muslims rather than label them. If they choose not to believe me, that so be it.

I'll leave it to responsible Islamic scholars to point out who are not practicing Islam correctly.

BTW, welcome back. Hope your doing well.

format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew

I am sure this does not reflect the beliefs or opinion of the whole of the Alawi sect. And if it does, Allah will punish them accordingly for their "shirk" on the day of judgment. Until then, let's not play GOD.

Then perhaps you should read a little bit more about their beliefs before writing all together? What say you? They've already been declared by the scholars as kaffirs, along with their type like Ahmadis, qidyanis, bahais etc.

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Al-An'am (The Cattle) [6:159] [RECITE]

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Inna allatheena farraqoo deenahum wakanoo shiyaAAan lasta minhum fee shayin innama amruhum ila Allahi thumma yunabbiohum bima kanoo yafAAaloona

6:159 As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.

You want to include them as Muslims then know that's your personal opinion and not the consensus!
I am just curious if you read the same Quran as the rest of us?

best,