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Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

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    Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda (OP)


    The following articles are taken from Islam21c's page: Islam21c's counter narrative of the Anti-Niqab Agenda


    Why the Niqab is Religious not Cultural
    and why the right to wear it should be supported by those who care about Liberty

    Sheikh Shams Adduha Muhammad


    Once again, Muslims of Britain are under the microscope. This time it is the niqab, the face covering worn by many Muslim women. Calls to ban it, have a national debate about it etc are being made by non-Muslims and so called ‘progressive Muslims’ like Yasmin Alibhai Brown [1]. Neither of these two groups of people have any idea why a Muslim woman wears a niqab and proceed with their tirade based on their own assumptions; preaching to Muslims about their own faith. What positive outcome they think they will get out of this; quite how this will promote community cohesion and understanding is beyond anyone. What irony! They offend Muslims, propose to limit their freedom, and yet still talk about social cohesion and freedom in the same breath. In a country where women have won the right to bar ealmost everything, we have a proposal to ban people from covering almost everything. People’s freedoms are being limited in the name of emancipating them. The newspaper that has Page 3, is campaigning for the niqab ban on page one. Male MPs want to tell women what they can’t wear; ‘progressive Muslims’ i.e. non-practising Muslims are the new Muslim theologians; and practising Muslims are the extremists.


    It’s a tired and familiar old story. With hugely important events occurring around the world to report on, the media jumps on every little scrap that either makes Islam and Muslims look bad or puts pressure on them by making their way of life look more and more incompatible. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy; make your own demons and then fight to banish them. Muslims will respond by fighting the oppression and repelling the false liberators. As things stand, the Muslims are fighting for the heart of Britain, for freedom and human rights. Should they along with the sane voices in British society fail and the extreme voices in British society prevail, it will simply add to the ever increasing proof of the British establishment’s hypocrisy as, on the one hand, it seems to be taking lessons in suppression from its despotic and autocratic allies in whose lands Muslims indeed struggle for basic freedoms; and yet on the other hand it marauds around the world, hand in hand with the US in the name of freedom and democracy. Now it is simply bringing all that ugly mess home. Muslims of Britain simply need to stick to their value-rich faith. Good people will respect us for our principles, and the haters and hypocrites will continue to expose themselves plain for all to see.


    Yet while we will continue to fight for a woman’s right to wear the niqab, there is growing confusion about whether Muslim women are fighting for a cultural practice or a religious one. Although this distinction should make little difference in a democratic country, it is a pertinent question for us as Muslims to understand. Every time this issue makes the headlines, some Muslims who are vocal in the media make a point of stating that it is a cultural practice that has nothing to do with Islam.
    It is time to clear this up, and it is very simple.


    In Surah al-Noor [2], Allah (SWT) commands believing men and women to lower their gazes and guard their chastity. Then He tells women to not expose their beauty except that which is normally apparent. There are two interpretations for the ‘normally apparent’. Ibn ‘Abbas (RA) says it means the face and hands. However, Ibn Mas’ud (RA) interprets it as whatever is apparent after the face is covered. [3]


    In Surah al-Ahzab [4], the Prophet (SAW) is commanded to tell his wives, daughters and the women of the believers to ‘bring their outer garments close to them’ so that they can be recognised as noble women and not be harmed. In response to the verse, the women of Madina were reported to have come out with their faces covered in different ways. [5]


    In light of the above, Muslims scholars have differed on whether or not covering the face is obligatory for women. This is true also of the four famous and currently practised schools of thought. The Hanafi and Maliki schools do not consider covering the face to be obligatory. The Shaf’i and Hanbali schools declare it obligatory. Later Hanafi jurists preferred the obligatory ruling due to an increase in immorality resulting in the need for women to be more prudent and protective over themselves. [6]


    The above difference of opinion based on varying interpretations is not unique to this issue, thousands of issues are differed upon in exactly the same way. Muslims accept both positions as acceptable interpretations. Preference is either based on an academic leaning or based on precaution and prudence. The fact that there is disagreement does not take any matter outside of the pale of the Islamic tradition. In the case of men, the same is true of the beard, the cap, wearing trousers above the ankles. All of these are issues that have differing views, yet all of these issues are part and parcel of Islam and all are issues wherein the current practice of Muslims is diverse. To suggest that any such issue is cultural and not religious demonstrates an overwhelming ignorance of Islamic teachings. In some instances it also indicates crass-pragmatism and an inferiority complex owing to an inability to cope with issues presented by modernity. There will be those ‘progressive Muslims’ who give little importance to the hadith literature and claim to only be following the Qur’an, interpreting it in whichever fanciful way suits their preference. The contradiction they have to overcome is that the Qur’an itself was preserved by the memories of the Prophet’s companions and their oral tradition. Thus if one accepts the Qur’an as being preserved through the memories of these most trustworthy of human beings then how can one choose to ignore the weight of their testimony in other matters relating to the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW).


    On any Islamic issue where there is a difference of opinion, the individual chooses what to do. There is no force or coercion. In the matter of the niqab, many women find it more conducive to Islamic teachings around modesty, chastity, and neutralisation of sexual attraction, and so wear the niqab as a mark of their commitment to these ideals and their piety. It doesn’t even have to mean they consider it obligatory; nor does it mean that those who do not wear the niqab are less chaste or modest. It is about one’s personal feelings about themselves and how they manage their own spirituality. Many of my students know that I do not consider it obligatory. I see them join my classes without the niqab, soon after, they start wearing the niqab. I don’t even know why they did it. Ultimately, it’s their choice and none of my business. But it is a religious choice and not a cultural one, which means a woman makes the choice to adopt an Islamic teaching in the hope of being rewarded by Allah (SWT). This is the essence of any religious practice.


    The idea that women are being forced to wear the niqab is laughable. I’m sure some wear it because their husbands or fathers want them to. But choosing to respect their wishes does not mean they are forced. Maybe the would-be heroes who seek to emancipate niqab-wearing Muslim women should actually talk to niqabi women to find out how they feel rather than excluding them. An act that is so undemocratic, one wonders what kind of government these MPs think they represent?


    In my fifteen years as an active imam and teacher with thousands of students, I have rarely come across a woman who complained that she was being forced to wear the niqab. Given that I do not hold it to be obligatory; I would be an obvious imam to consult for such women. Ironically, the complete opposite is true: women regularly complain that they choose to wear the niqab but their husbands or fathers pressurise them to take it off. They ask whether they have the freedom in Islam to hold their ground. If the niqab gets banned, these MPs would have succeeded in taking away their freedoms and would have played in to the hands of patriarchy, something that would never have occurred to them.


    At the root of it is ignorance and arrogance. Ignorance of what the niqab really is about, and arrogance that leads to imposing one’s own views, preferences and anxieties upon the freedoms of others. Whatever happens, Muslims will adapt and we’ll move on. We’ve seen and been through worse. Britain as a whole needs to think carefully about what it stands to lose if it goes down this path. As far as I am concerned, democracy, human rights and liberal values are now being interpreted in a very dubious way. Muslims just have to stick to their principles. We were around before modernity and many other aspects of new-age conventional thinking, we will not be dictated to by it, we have not given in to it like Christianity and other faiths, and indeed we have no need to do so. Furthermore we will be around the day they have moved-on and become unrecognisable to westerners whose ancestors fought for them. It seems they are already moving on, albeit a move backwards.




    Notes:
    Source; www.islam21c.com

    Islam21c requests all the readers of this article, and others, to share it on your facebook, twitter, and other platforms to further spread our efforts.

    (1) http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...m-8817963.html
    (2) Surah al-Noor (24:31)
    (3) Tafsir Tabari
    (4) Surah al-Ahzaab (33:59)
    (5) Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 4481
    (6) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhdb0-w8Rg4











    Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda




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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

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    format_quote Originally Posted by جوري View Post
    it would be no different from any burglar/killer wearing a ski mask
    As a form of disguise, wearing a ski mask in central London leaves a lot to be desired. Use your brain!

    format_quote Originally Posted by جوري View Post
    This is just a sick excuse to target and further alienate Muslims and then based on that faulty premise speak of how they can't integrate into society!
    By his actions, Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed has already damaged the idea that there is no security risk to concealing garments. It is him you should condemn because it's Muslim women in general who will suffer.

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    As a form of disguise, wearing a ski mask in central London leaves a lot to be desired. Use your brain!
    Is it illegal? I don't want to waste my time over your feelings or emotions. I want to know if the govt. legislates whether or not presumably psychotic white males and as I have shown above are the number one culprit for most violent attacks are kept from dressing as they desire and what studies were made to link their outfits to the crimes they commit~ You're the last person to speak about using brains and you should really quit taking my statements and using it on me as if you'd an original and independent thought looming in your head!



    format_quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    By his actions, Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed has already damaged the idea that there is no security risk to concealing garments. It is him you should condemn because it's Muslim women in general who will suffer.
    As I stated and I so hate to repeat myself on the account that all things written simply bounce over the idea you already have formed in your mind. laws aren't amended based on the exception and if they're then everyone can clearly see in this particular case that this is a system of bigotry, xenophobia and frank outward hatred of Islam- A system that professes 'freedoms' that it obviously doesn't possess in fact one that is completely antithetical to the values of tolerance, individualism and freedom which by definition should denote readiness to coexist peacefully with those who do not share your values.
    Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda


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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    Salaam,

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    The contradiction they have to overcome is that the Qur’an itself was preserved by the memories of the Prophet’s companions and their oral tradition. Thus if one accepts the Qur’an as being preserved through the memories of these most trustworthy of human beings then how can one choose to ignore the weight of their testimony in other matters relating to the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
    Never thought about it that way.... Thank you for the simple logic that should make those who deny the sunnah think a little bit more.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    Many of my students know that I do not consider it obligatory. I see them join my classes without the niqab, soon after, they start wearing the niqab. I don’t even know why they did it. Ultimately, it’s their choice and none of my business. But it is a religious choice and not a cultural one, which means a woman makes the choice to adopt an Islamic teaching in the hope of being rewarded by Allah (SWT). This is the essence of any religious practice.
    I see why it is a religious choice as opposed to cultural (although it 'may' have begun as cultural).


    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    Perhaps a glaring omission in all the commentaries written is the viewpoint of women who veil their faces. Let’s hope, should a national debate be sparked on the issue, that their voices, so absent in the media, are granted the public space to challenge perceptions of their subjugation, oppression, stunted careers etc…
    If I can pin point on why niqab is viewed in such light, could be summed up by -

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    Having read all of the above, I think there are only two valid reasons to be weary of face veils: Security and Identity.
    It would be similar to walking around and seeing people in balaclavas. Due to the association of using masks to hide identity, it makes people nervous and makes the paranoid react unreasonably. Incessant complains and expression has garnered attention which has triggered negative awareness as a result of these paranoid comments.

    Personally, I feel, these people are living other people's fears. Let the security people figure away to ensure safety, a system can be put in place that can accommodate such things. We are such an advanced society. I refuse to believe that with all the equipment we have, we cannot get through a simple veil over a face.

    If I am to be honest, it does not appeal to me. And in a way, it is good because the person wearing it holds no interest to me except to question why she is wearing it? Whereas girls who do not allows me to stare and .....



    Peace

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by جوري View Post
    Is it illegal?
    No, wearing a ski mask is not illegal and neither is the niqab/burqa. But unlike the niquab/burqa, a ski mask is of no value as a form of disguise outside of a ski resort. A ski mask in central London is so far from a disguise, it would ensure everybody looked at you. Frankly it's a stupid comparison and I wonder why you persist with it.

    This man Mohammad has set a dangerous precedent which, if others follow, will obviously undermine the argument that the niqab/burqa does not represent a security risk. It's got nothing to do with whether the person is a Muslim or not (although Mohammad is).

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    No, wearing a ski mask is not illegal
    Ok great that is all I wanted to read. Until that is made illegal by a governmental mandate can we have this dialogue. I am not interested in where it is donned otherwise it is irrelevant!
    Most criminals disguise their identity not sure why you persist on ignoring that fact- sales of any covers including neck gaiters which many wear during winter months should also be made illegal by your brand of logic!

    gaiter 1 - Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    8980 ia camo neck gaiter - Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda


    173204 ts - Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda
    btw is anyone confused about the genders of those heavily clad dudes? Maybe in a society of homosexuals it is difficult for some to tell a woman from a man!
    Last edited by جوري; 11-08-2013 at 04:18 PM.
    Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    Last year in Indonesia. 23 'women' with niqab visited Jakarta police headquarter to meet few terrorists that detained there. The guards did not see their faces. But their mistake was they did not realize that those niqabi have been 24 when they left detention center. Rocky, one terrorist that detained there escaped with wearing niqab.

    Indonesian national Intelligence also report that niqab often be used by terrorists when they move from one place to another place.

    But we don't think to ban niqab in public place. We don't blame the niqab, we blame the terrorist that use niqab for the wrong things.

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    I find that story a little hard to believe. Firstly people who go to visit 'terrorists' it is done under very strict guidelines as they're supposedly the most dangerous criminals, their meetings are supervised and the things they bring to jail are checked in and out. So called Islamic countries like Egypt are simply simpatico with western agenda to malign Muslims and ruin society from within, thus I am not surprised that the story is courtesy of your 'Indonesian National Intelligence' and what sort of intelligence is it, if a woman goes in and comes out a man?

    sob7an Allah.. I am surprised by the things written by Muslims!
    Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    Rocky has been arrested again. Guards in Indonesian prison and detention center are not as good as in other countries. Prisoner escape is common stories.

    Yes, I am Muslim and I have big sympathy to the innocent niqabi who become victims of other people action.

    In the past I've heard positive comment about women who wore niqab from my mother, female cousins, and other women who ever meet niqabi women.

    But now?. I heard complain from some niqabi women because people look at them with suspicion. It's happen after the emergence of radical group which explode bombs and cause fear among peope. The worse is, all women in the group wear niqab!.

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    prisoner escaping being a common story in Indonesia is then a problem with prison guards and the way the system is run in Indonesia and that is what should make the news not the fact that 20+ niqabis went in and one prisoner got out. Seems like women are an easy scape goat and those who are the most fragile (attacked east and west, family & strangers alike) are the most targeted.
    Like the logic or lack thereof of that other guy. Completely ignores the massive postal attacks by single white males and focuses with all his bravado on the one story where a criminal donned a niqab!
    Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by جوري View Post
    I find that story a little hard to believe
    Your difficulty in facing up to reality in general has been a feature of this forum for some time.

    The fact is that this man did escape in disguise under a burqa. It's a waste of everybody's time to keep saying it couldn't happen, because it just did. Please stop wasting space with irrelevant pictures that demonstrate nothing. IT'S ALREADY HAPPENED.

    A disguise which draws attention to the wearer is no use as a disguise. So stop wasting time with irrelevant comparisons.

    The problem you should be focusing on is the behaviour of this man, himself a Muslim, who therefore should know better than to bring more difficulties on the lives of Muslim women in the west.

    it's pointless to argue there are no security implications when a man with suspected links to Al Shabab has used the burqa in this way. If people are killed as a result of a similar incident, it is obviously going to cause immense difficulties.

    Let's hope that no other Muslim, at least, will abuse the privilege of the burqa.

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    Can I request we do not turn this into another argument! By all means present your views but please try to do so without insulting the other person.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    That's why Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed is to be condemned, because by his actions he has placed at risk the freedom of Muslim women in general in the west to wear religious clothing.
    I agree that, whatever the intentions behind them, such actions have placed at risk the freedom of Muslim women, especially at a time when it is in the spotlight. There is already growing pressure and suspicion on Muslim women even without these incidents. But it is rather strange that a 'ban' seems to be on the tip of everyone's tongue regarding this topic, as if no other option is conceivable or worth trying. It sounds almost as if people have already decided in their own minds what the outcome should be, and finding the excuses to justify it.

    I thought these points were important to note:

    format_quote Originally Posted by جوري View Post
    The law doesn't change based on the exception
    format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto View Post
    But we don't think to ban niqab in public place. We don't blame the niqab, we blame the terrorist that use niqab for the wrong things.
    I also came across this quote from Salma Yaqoob, formerly a Birmingham city councillor, from an article in the Guardian:


    "The women who do wear the face veils are a tiny minority within a minority, so the thought that they're any kind of threat to British society as a whole is beyond laughable. But at the same time, [these debates] do, of course, increase the vulnerability of Muslim women as a whole. Time and again, verbal and physical attacks on Muslim women increase when we have these so-called national debates. In emotional and psychological terms, I think it does a huge amount of damage."

    Women who wear the veil "are trying to observe what they feel are their religious convictions", she says, "but are made to feel that they are somehow imposing on the whole of society and that they are the biggest problem. And, of course, that isn't conducive to integration, belonging and a positive atmosphere. It doesn't foster cohesion, I think it does the very opposite, and ironically it actually stifles healthy discussion and debate."
    | Likes ~Zaria~ liked this post
    Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda




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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill View Post
    Salaam,

    I see why it is a religious choice as opposed to cultural (although it 'may' have begun as cultural).


    Why do you say it 'may' have begun as cultural?
    It would be similar to walking around and seeing people in balaclavas. Due to the association of using masks to hide identity, it makes people nervous and makes the paranoid react unreasonably. Incessant complains and expression has garnered attention which has triggered negative awareness as a result of these paranoid comments.
    I disagree with the comparison to balaclavas. Balaclavas are typically worn for criminal activity and little else. But the Niqab is worn for a particular (religious) reason and not associated with criminals. Yes, it has garnered negative attention due to negative portrayal, but it's still not the same as balaclavas. Not all concealing clothing creates paranoia - the example of nuns was mentioned in the other thread.
    Personally, I feel, these people are living other people's fears. Let the security people figure away to ensure safety, a system can be put in place that can accommodate such things. We are such an advanced society. I refuse to believe that with all the equipment we have, we cannot get through a simple veil over a face.
    I agree.
    If I am to be honest, it does not appeal to me. And in a way, it is good because the person wearing it holds no interest to me except to question why she is wearing it?
    I didn't follow here. We as Muslims must respect the Niqab as it is at the very least a recommended action in our religion. We should understand why Muslim women are wearing it and support them too.
    Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda




  17. #33
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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    "The women who do wear the face veils are a tiny minority within a minority
    Indeed, I see such folks as focusing on an ant whilst ignoring the elephant in the room and I have no other explanation for that save frank bigotry, Islamophobia and the marginalizing of a minority so that all they accuse them of especially lack of integration becomes nothing more than a self fulfilling prophecy!
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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    But it is rather strange that a 'ban' seems to be on the tip of everyone's tongue regarding this topic, as if no other option is conceivable or worth trying. It sounds almost as if people have already decided in their own minds what the outcome should be, and finding the excuses to justify it.
    I agree with most of what you say, however...

    The worst possible outcome is that an Amanda Lethwaite type figure takes a bomb onto the Underground and creates a terror spectacular. if that happens, I don't see how any government could stand against the clamour for action, which would surely involve some degree of restriction if not an outright ban.

    Therefore, the greatest danger to Muslim women's freedom comes from the potential actions of other Muslims like Mohammed Ahmed Mohammed. Otherwise, no matter what you may read in the media, the UK is not even close to imposing any kind of ban and i can't see how it would come about. The tabloid press operate in a state of perpetual hysteria. They'll be bored of it by next week. It's a strange thing to have to say in this forum - but don't believe everything you read in the media.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    The women who do wear the face veils are a tiny minority within a minority, so the thought that they're any kind of threat to British society as a whole is beyond laughable
    It doesn't even have to be a Muslim, or a woman, that takes advantage of these garments. It's the concealment that matters - not the religion, the sex, or the ethnicity.

    To give a slightly bizarre comparison - during the IRA attacks on London, litter bins on the Underground were used to plant explosives because they provided a place of concealmen. In reaction, all litter bins were "banned" ie removed.

    The fact that only a tiny minority of people (one in a million) ever used a bin to plant a bomb does not mean that removing them was either unreasonable, disproportionate or illogical.

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    It's the concealment that matters
    As stated before criminals don't go on advertising their identity the garment has nothing to do with it! there's just one type of garment on your mind obviously if the law extends itself to Burkas then it should extend itself to any form of concealment, whether in OR's in the winter months, to cancer patients etc. and let's see how well that fares at large!
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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by جوري View Post

    As stated before criminals don't go on advertising their identity the garment has nothing to do with it! there's just one type of garment on your mind obviously if the law extends itself to Burkas then it should extend itself to any form of concealment, whether in OR's in the winter months, to cancer patients etc. and let's see how well that fares at large!
    I agree with this. We should not single out a particular garment. The ban, if there is to be one, should be on the act of concealing your identity by wearing a mask, regardless of what sort of mask. And if we would allow people to walk about in a particular area wearing other face and body coverings, I see no reason not to let them do so in a burqa. And if we are talking about in banks or airports or for driver's photos, etc, where its important not to let people hide their identities, no special ban or exception should be made for religion.

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    I agree with this. We should not single out a particular garment. The ban, if there is to be one, should be on the act of concealing your identity by wearing a mask, regardless of what sort of mask. And if we would allow people to walk about in a particular area wearing other face and body coverings, I see no reason not to let them do so in a burqa. And if we are talking about in banks or airports or for driver's photos, etc, where its important not to let people hide their identities, no special ban or exception should be made for religion.
    You won't have good luck with that when you're no longer talking about a minority within a minority by a majority of people who by profession or for medical reasons or personal reasons need to sport that kind of garment. If you're going to a bank with a ski mask it seems a little odd but should you be asked to reveal your identity to a guard of your gender then you're obliged to do so. Given that societies at large are composed of folks who follow one brand of religion or another, no special accommodations should be given to liberals and the amoral to appease their anxiety that's what psychiatrists and anxiolytics are for!
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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by جوري View Post
    As stated before criminals don't go on advertising their identity the garment has nothing to do with it
    And as i have stated before, it's any form of concealment that provides the opportunity to carry/plant munitions that matters, whether clothing based or otherwise.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    The ban, if there is to be one, should be on the act of concealing your identity by wearing a mask, regardless of what sort of mask
    I wondered about that too, although it wouldn't be easy to draw up such open ended legislation. It would absurd to ban ski masks in a ski resort, or diving masks in a diving school. But motorcycle helmets are banned for security reasons by many organisations (although this is not prescribed in law, it's their own initiative on their own premises.) There are also restrictions on wearing 'hoodies' in certain urban areas which is prescribed by local by law. But no one has complained that hoodie wearers have been singled out over, say, anorak wearers.

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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    And as i have stated before, it's any form of concealment that provides the opportunity to carry/plant munitions that matters, whether clothing based or otherwise.
    And as I have already stated & REPEATEDLY:

    format_quote Originally Posted by جوري View Post


    You won't have good luck with that when you're no longer talking about a minority within a minority by a majority of people who by profession or for medical reasons or personal reasons need to sport that kind of garment. If you're going to a bank with a ski mask it seems a little odd but should you be asked to reveal your identity to a guard of your gender then you're obliged to do so. Given that societies at large are composed of folks who follow one brand of religion or another, no special accommodations should be given to liberals and the amoral to appease their anxiety that's what psychiatrists and anxiolytics are for!
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    Re: Spotlight: Anti-Niqab Agenda

    format_quote Originally Posted by جوري View Post
    You won't have good luck with that when you're no longer talking about a minority within a minority by a majority of people who by profession or for medical reasons or personal reasons need to sport that kind of garment. If you're going to a bank with a ski mask it seems a little odd but should you be asked to reveal your identity to a guard of your gender then you're obliged to do so.
    No ban would be so clumsily constructed as to ban doctors from wearing masks in hospital, for instance. Any security based ban is likely to focus on areas of public access, especially transport.

    As I've said before, I'm very much opposed to a ban myself because I think the risk is too small in relation to the infringement on personal freedom. But if a terrorist were to imitate Mohammed and exploit the privilege of the veil, then the balance of that equation would change.


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