× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... Last
Results 1 to 20 of 72 visibility 20474

The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

  1. #1
    Hulk's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Part-time Avenger
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    2,155
    Threads
    107
    Rep Power
    95
    Rep Ratio
    94
    Likes Ratio
    68

    The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    Report bad ads?

    "Let’s get two caveats out of the way first: I’m neither a Muslim and nor am I religious in any sense (I come from a Sikh family). Secondly, anyone who’s read my work knows I have zero sympathy for religiously motivated terrorists. In fact I even supported the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 to take out the Taliban.

    Yesterday the Evening Standard said in its Editorial Comment: “Muslim communities must be far more outspoken about this: we look to them, for instance, to organise protests against the Islamic State.”

    I’ve also seen various tweets by people asking why more Muslims aren’t speaking out against ISIS, or condemning it.."

    Full article
    chat Quote

  2. Report bad ads?
  3. #2
    سيف الله's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    UK
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    3,955
    Threads
    334
    Rep Power
    96
    Rep Ratio
    16
    Likes Ratio
    15

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    Salaam

    This is relevant

    When government war policies go wrong, blame the Muslims

    Muslims who are facing abuse, racism and discrimination should not have to apologise for opposing their government's foreign policy, just as millions of non-Muslims do.

    Blame the Muslims. If all else fails in the defence of a foreign policy which is so bankrupt that even the envoy for peace in the Middle East Tony Blair has gone quiet, then start talking about the domestic threat, and the need for increased surveillance of Muslims.

    The hideous beheading of James Foley, apparently by a British member of ISIS, and the government claim that hundreds of British citizens are fighting in Syria and now Iraq, has brought a whole new raft of demands. Ranging from the Nigel Farage cry that their passports should be confiscated to the return of control orders which effectively mean house arrest for individuals, these are all more about political posturing than dealing with the problem of ISIS.

    The government’s Prevent strategy, involving high levels of surveillance and the involvement of mosques and community organisations in controlling and monitoring young Muslims who might be thought to be under the influence of ‘extremism’ has hardly been a success in its own terms. Indeed if it is true that several hundred young people have left to fight in the Middle east, it suggest that Prevent isn’t preventing the thing it purports to.

    Maybe that’s because the whole approach is wrong. Firstly, the problem here isn’t surveillance, of which there is a huge amount in and around Muslim communities. It isn’t the lack of police, where it is now not uncommon (unlike ten years ago) to see a couple of community policemen at the back of a packed meeting.

    It isn’t that the security services don’t know anything about some of the people who decide to take this route. Indeed, the three British men who are supposedly holding the hostages for ISIS are almost certainly known to the secret services, as were for example the killers of Lee Rigby.

    In Britain as a whole, alongside this remarkably high level of surveillance, there are more anti terror laws and a level of security in public buildings which is far in excess of anything from the 1970s and 80s where the IRA had a much more extensive bombing campaign.

    It isn’t working. And it isn’t working because it does not address the political problems that have helped feed the terrorist groups. When al Qaeda attacked the twin towers on 9/11 their grievances were as follows: they wanted an end to US troops on Saudi soil, the end of sanctions on Iraq, and justice for the Palestinians.

    If these were grievances 13 years ago, how much more have they become so after disastrous interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, the treatment of the Palestinians and the death and destruction wrought on the people of the Middle East?

    These grievances have over the years mobilised huge numbers of people on mass protests and actions in opposition to them. Most recently, the huge demos in support of Gaza show people from across all communities, races and religions united in opposition to government foreign policy.

    If any one group of people in this country had the right to feel aggrieved over the lack of government recognition of these movements, it is the Muslim community. It has turned out on protests in huge numbers to try to bring about change by peaceful protest. It has done so not because it is any more ‘extremist’ than anyone else, but because it doesn’t like government policy.

    It has been ignored, demonised and attacked, subject to racist accusations and demands that it desist from extremism. Most Muslims in this country do not support ISIS or anything like it, and are as horrified as anyone else by the sights of James Foley being beheaded.

    But they should not have to apologise for opposing their government, just as millions of non-Muslims do.

    Nor should they be singled out for the level of abuse, racism and discrimination that they are facing. The latest developments with ISIS will lead to more of a crackdown on young people in the Muslim community, but will also raise the general level of racism and Islamophobia in Britain and elsewhere in Europe.

    We are locked in a vicious circle where wars and invasions create opposition and in some cases terrorism, both in the countries that are attacked or here in Britain. Then the opposition is denounced as terrorism, there are more crackdowns and this creates more people who support the terrorists.

    The everyday Islamophobia (which is by far the most extensive level of racism in Europe) again helps alienate young Muslims especially. Governments then demand more of the same and continue the exact policies that caused the trouble in the first place.

    The importance of involving Muslims in campaigns that can challenge the deadly stream of wars and interventions, while at the same time rejecting the ISIS reactionaries, has never been greater.

    http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/when-government-war-policies-go-wrong-blame-the-muslims#.U_h9jvldV8E
    chat Quote

  4. #3
    Scimitar's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    DAWAH DIGITAL
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,546
    Threads
    155
    Rep Power
    113
    Rep Ratio
    70
    Likes Ratio
    85

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    this is weird, every Muslim i've come across on the web condemns the actions of IS-IS or whatever they are calling themselves right now. Why don;t they just do a "search" ???

    google is their friend, after all.
    | Likes syed_z liked this post
    The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    15noje9 1 - The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous
    chat Quote

  5. #4
    Pygoscelis's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    4,009
    Threads
    51
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    31
    Likes Ratio
    17

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    Indeed. Intelligent people will go look into it themselves, such as speaking with some Muslims (if they know any) or coming to places like this one. That's how I wound up here in the first place, following 9/11 in the wake of all the islamophibia it evoked.

    I can't say I agree with Islam on much at all whatsoever, but I can say that I am less myopic than many in the west who don't bother to investigate, and realize that just like with Christians, Jews, Atheists, or any other group, you've got individual Muslims who vary widely in views, and will use/stretch their religion or ideology to fit them.

    I know you folks here like to say that there is "only one Islam", just like the Christians I talk to tell me they are the "only true Christians", but I have met people calling themselves muslims who vary from those who want to hunt down and kill homosexuals to those who are ok with gay marriage, and from those who hate non-muslims to those who have intermarried with them, and from those who won't listen to any sort of music to those who go to dance clubs, and from those who celebrate the deaths of kafirs to those who are pacifists, and from those who wear niqab to those who wear bathing suits in public, and so on and so on.

    Seeing a group like Isis and assuming that this is representative of all the billions of muslims on the planet it just ridiculous. But humans are tribal, and we are prone to doing this. The same can be seen in regard to other groups. Just look at how Jews or Black people are depicted in some circles.

    I suppose Islam may be a bit of a special case, since Muslims have a notable tendency to prefer other muslims over non-muslims (I see it in pretty much all discussions here from charitable giving to who to have as friends), but people fail to realize that Muslims need only see Isis as not following Islam to get by that issue.
    Last edited by Pygoscelis; 08-23-2014 at 05:22 PM.
    chat Quote

  6. Report bad ads?
  7. #5
    Pygoscelis's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    4,009
    Threads
    51
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    31
    Likes Ratio
    17

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    So Ya, I can see how other Muslims would benefit from differentiating from and condemning Isis, but I don't see any requirement or responsibility for them to do so.

    PS - Why can't I edit posts? The board just locks up when I try to.
    chat Quote

  8. #6
    ardianto's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Indonesia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    8,551
    Threads
    157
    Rep Power
    127
    Rep Ratio
    61
    Likes Ratio
    57

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    What is ISIS and the Muslim haters have in common?. Both of them say that ISIS represent the true teaching of Islam.

    ISIS claim themselves as the only right Muslims and accuse other Muslims who do not support them as apostates. It can be seen in their statements, although many other Muslims say that what ISIS do are against the teaching of Islam itself. And in another side, there are people outside Islam who try to convince other people that ISIS represent the true teaching of Islam, while other Muslims who do not support ISIS actually are Muslims who have been poisoned by secularism.

    Nowadays, the main problem that faced by Muslim world is radicalism. It's very dangerous because it's threaten not only non-Muslims, but also threaten Muslims. Now many Muslims are busy to eradicate radicalism through remind other Muslims that radicalism is not taught by Islam. But unfortunately, there are people outside Islam who still provoke Muslims through saying that Islam teaches hatred. It can make Muslims who still learn about Islam be provoked and turn into radical. Of course it can make the effort of Muslims to save the world from radicalism becoming useless.
    | Likes MuslimInshallah liked this post
    chat Quote

  9. #7
    ardianto's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Indonesia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    8,551
    Threads
    157
    Rep Power
    127
    Rep Ratio
    61
    Likes Ratio
    57

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    So Ya, I can see how other Muslims would benefit from differentiating from and condemning Isis, but I don't see any requirement or responsibility for them to do so.
    If you don't see that, it's because you look at the wrong side, Pygo.

    You don't know that behind you many Muslims have condemn ISIS and remind the other to not deceived by ISIS. However, they don't do protest on the street like expected by some people in the West.
    chat Quote

  10. #8
    Scimitar's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    DAWAH DIGITAL
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,546
    Threads
    155
    Rep Power
    113
    Rep Ratio
    70
    Likes Ratio
    85

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    Indeed. Intelligent people will go look into it themselves, such as speaking with some Muslims (if they know any) or coming to places like this one. That's how I wound up here in the first place, following 9/11 in the wake of all the islamophibia it evoked.

    I can't say I agree with Islam on much at all whatsoever, but I can say that I am less myopic than many in the west who don't bother to investigate, and realize that just like with Christians, Jews, Atheists, or any other group, you've got individual Muslims who vary widely in views, and will use/stretch their religion or ideology to fit them.

    I know you folks here like to say that there is "only one Islam", just like the Christians I talk to tell me they are the "only true Christians", but I have met people calling themselves muslims who vary from those who want to hunt down and kill homosexuals to those who are ok with gay marriage, and from those who hate non-muslims to those who have intermarried with them, and from those who won't listen to any sort of music to those who go to dance clubs, and from those who celebrate the deaths of kafirs to those who are pacifists, and from those who wear niqab to those who wear bathing suits in public, and so on and so on.

    Seeing a group like Isis and assuming that this is representative of all the billions of muslims on the planet it just ridiculous. But humans are tribal, and we are prone to doing this. The same can be seen in regard to other groups. Just look at how Jews or Black people are depicted in some circles.

    I suppose Islam may be a bit of a special case, since Muslims have a notable tendency to prefer other muslims over non-muslims (I see it in pretty much all discussions here from charitable giving to who to have as friends), but people fail to realize that Muslims need only see Isis as not following Islam to get by that issue.
    Bloomin' heck batman, that was good *slaps fist*.

    I have to admit, you've managed to sum it up nicely. In all ages, men have abused the scripture to further their own ends...

    ...and this age we live in today, is no different.

    All I can say is, I hope and pray that God have mercy on those who twist the truth, and enlighten them to be better examples of Muslims in this modern age.

    We are reflective of those who lead us - problem is, no one is leading us today, no khilafa that is legitimised according to shariah.

    So it's a free for all, and that's when the rats crawl out of the woodworks, being a pragmatic bunch, it's the element they thrive in.

    Good day to you pygo,

    Scimi

    EDIT:

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    So Ya, I can see how other Muslims would benefit from differentiating from and condemning Isis, but I don't see any requirement or responsibility for them to do so.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post

    PS - Why can't I edit posts? The board just locks up when I try to.


    try right clicking the edit button and "opening in a new tab" - that works for us all... the forum is still a little buggy buddy
    The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    15noje9 1 - The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous
    chat Quote

  11. #9
    سيف الله's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    UK
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    3,955
    Threads
    334
    Rep Power
    96
    Rep Ratio
    16
    Likes Ratio
    15

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post

    I can't say I agree with Islam on much at all whatsoever, but I can say that I am less myopic than many in the west who don't bother to investigate, and realize that just like with Christians, Jews, Atheists, or any other group, you've got individual Muslims who vary widely in views, and will use/stretch their religion or ideology to fit them.
    Questionable, after all these years you still dont get the basics of the Islamic faith, continually distorting Islam to fit your secular liberal world view, observe

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    I know you folks here like to say that there is "only one Islam", just like the Christians I talk to tell me they are the "only true Christians", but I have met people calling themselves muslims who vary from those who want to hunt down and kill homosexuals to those who are ok with gay marriage, and from those who hate non-muslims to those who have intermarried with them, and from those who won't listen to any sort of music to those who go to dance clubs, and from those who celebrate the deaths of kafirs to those who are pacifists, and from those who wear niqab to those who wear bathing suits in public, and so on and so on.
    Such drivel.

    Gay marriage has no place in Islam (does not make sense).

    There are strict guidelines on who Muslims can and cannot marry (for good reason, to maintain the integrity of the faith).

    There is debate on the Music question but dance clubs are a no no.

    Pacifism (as much as I respect this idea) has no place in Islam.

    Bathing suits are the height of immodesty, again unislamic. (duh)


    There have always been disagreements and disputes within the faith but there are certain non negotiable's. Your going to have to accept that Islam is not a 'liberal' faith and no amount of mental gymnastics on your part is going to change that. Were not going to end up a happy clappy, meek and mild, wishy washy, believe whatever you like faith. Christians have tried this approach and it hasn't worked out to well for them.

    Former archbishop of Canterbury: We are a post-Christian nation

    http://www.islamicboard.com/world-affairs/134323244-former-archbishop-canterbury-post-christian-nation.html

    If Christianity dies, who benefits?

    http://www.islamicboard.com/world-affairs/134319949-christianity-dies-benefits.html?highlight=Christianity+dies

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    I can't say I agree with Islam on much at all whatsoever.
    There would be something wrong if a secular liberal had much in common with Islamic ideals.
    chat Quote

  12. Report bad ads?
  13. #10
    Samiun's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    The dunya, where challenges are fought
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,241
    Threads
    261
    Rep Power
    94
    Rep Ratio
    69
    Likes Ratio
    29

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    I still have no idea who's ISIS, who are they? CIA? ??? Allegations being thrown left and right, I'm not even sure if the people defending them or taking a blow at them even know they exist or not and who is their leader. It all seems anonymous and Allah knows best who's playing this game. Here's a great article by Uthman Badar.

    Five points on ‪#‎ISIS‬ and developments in ‪#‎Iraq‬

    1. Many objectionable actions have been reported as having been carried out by ISIS in recent weeks, such as forcing Christians and others to flee their villages and starve on mountaintops, summary executions, and killing journalists. If true, these actions are wrong and not condoned Islamically.

    2. The reality is, however, that mainstream and online media is not a reliable source on these sorts of reports and many false reports are circulating. It is plain that the media is treating ISIS (as with al-Qaeda, Taliban and many others before) as an enemy force (even though in theory they are meant to only be reporting events) and any impartial person will accept that reports about forces you deem belligerent are not objective.

    Thus, it should suffice us to clarify that a particular act x is wrong and unIslamic, without us attacking or condemning a particular act x from particular person or group y. The former is a judgment about an ethical question. The latter is that plus a judgment about a matter of fact.

    There’s also many wacky conspiracy theories about ISIS being a creation of the US, Israel, Mossad, CIA, Assad, the Free Masons, the Illuminati and Mr. Squiggle the man on the moon. Please respect your own rationality and stop sharing these. It’s stupid and it’s wrong Islamically.

    3. One thing these developments do re-iterate, irrespective of what there reality is, is that ISIS is not a state at all, let alone the Khilafah. This is *one* aspect that shows this.

    With all the propaganda against them, with all the backlash Muslims are facing around the world because of actions reported about them, with all the further targeting of Muslims around the world being done on pretext of these actions, ISIS leadership is nowhere to be seen in the propaganda war. Where is the Khilafah? Where is his spokesperson? His media people? Why isn’t he coming out to clarify what is true and what is not?

    This is not some simple matter. The blowtorch is being applied to Muslims globally and the person who claims to lead them all is silent? He can’t even come out to deny all that is wrongly being ascribed to them? Or if it’s true to provide the Islamic justification?
    It’s a really odd thing when something major is being reported and even those who want to give ISIS a fair hearing want to know the reality they have no means to do so. The best you can do is ask some supporters – who have no official standing with the group – who themselves have to rely on people they know, who themselves may or may not know anything of the incident. There’s the odd twitter account whose authenticity as official is not certain, or the odd video that gives part of the picture but that’s it!

    Where is the Khilafah’s version of events? Where is its role in the propaganda war and battle for hearts and mind? Silence is not an option in this. The Prophet (saw) was never silent with the like of this. He would engage, respond, negate, and counter the false narrative of the enemy (mostly by offense, not defensively). He ascribed significant importance to public opinion. Recall, as but one example, that one of the reasons he gave for not killing the hypocrites in Madinah in spite of their constantly undermining him was that, “People would say Muhammad kills his companions.”

    It’s now a case of individuals and groups having to do what little they can to counter the ‘war on terror’ narrative and demonisation of Islam. The Khilafah should be leading the way in this!

    I know that the response of ISIS supporters to this is, essentially, that it is are unable to do this yet. But that is the point. It is unable to do things that are so basic because it does not have even the basic elements of a state (by today’s standards), whether it be sufficient security that allows the leadership to move around normally and carry out the tasks as any other political leadership today or sufficient infrastructure and technological capability to engage in the propaganda war.

    4. Some Muslims are going out of their way to condemn ISIS and in very strong language. Frankly, it is difficult to take these people seriously. Most of them are the same people who never spoke a word against far worse crimes committed by western powers or the regimes in the Muslim word, and if they did once in a while it was like a murmur compared to their roar against ISIS now. They’ve finally found a political roar!

    Seriously, how does one come out with descriptions like, “lunatics”, “barbaric”, “bloodthirsty”, “deranged”, “savages”, having not once used anything like for those whose violence and crimes outdo anything ISIS has done by incomparable proportions?

    How does one come out with concerted social media commentary, blog posts, opinion pieces, media interviews against ISIS having done nothing comparable to this against the US through a decade of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Or through years of brutal oppression by the dictators that rule in the Muslim world?
    Do you realise that your hyperbole against ISIS only reinforces the ‘war on terror’ narrative, part of which is the idea that the civilized western savior is rescuing the world from the radical Islamist barbarian?

    Please, stop playing for the dominant opinion and stop being played. ISIS is not the issue in Syria or Iraq. There are much bigger issues that have been there long before ISIS and continue today. If you can provide direction on these, please do. If not, do us all a favour and keep silent.

    And let me be clear – preemptively tackling the strawmen that will be erected by some – that this is not to say “they're bad as well” or to in anyway justify Muslim wrongs on count of western wrongs. Rather, the issue is consistency and basis.

    If your basis is that Islam is against oppression and unjust violence and requires us to speak out against the same, than western states are far worse in this respect than any militant group, Muslim or non. Same applies to the regimes in the Muslim world.

    Yet we see no concerted effort (as opposed mere footnote acknowledgment) to confront these parties, nor the same strong language (e.g. referring to Obama as a terrorist or the US govt. as a terrorist entity or to his troops as lunatics or savages).
    Not only is western violence worse in magnitude and effect but it is also the provocation that creates the conditions which give rise to groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda. How does that figure into your “we should condemn both equally” excuse?

    If the basis is that these groups claim to be Islamic and are tarnishing the image of Islam, hence we need to confront them and push the correct image of Islam, this applies as much to the regimes in the Muslim world, such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, and others. There oppression is worse and they even have the rubber-stamp approval of big muftis and scholars. Where is your concerted effort to counter these regimes save the image of Islam?

    5. ISIS is the new al-Qaeda. The pretext, the excuse, by which western states seek further intervention in the Muslim world and in Muslim communities locally, through both hard-power and soft-power measures. We need to do our level best to resist this, to speak out with the truth, with a counter-narrative to their lies. We may not be able to stop them, but we cannot in any way facilitate the path for them, whether by reinforcing the narrative on which the policies rest, or by assisting them in their introduction or implementation.

    source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...38728026193251
    The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    Please Make Dua' For Samiun..

    “Whoever records a biography of a believer, it is as though he has brought him or her back to life.” - Imam Al-Sakhawi
    chat Quote

  14. #11
    daveyats's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    3
    Rep Power
    60
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    6

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    have muslims ever entertained the thought that not all media outlets are biased against islam and what they are portraying is the real situation?

    have muslims who accuse the non-muslims of islamophobia ever tried to take the perspective of a non-muslim and ask themselves what would their reaction be when they see that almost all terrorist acts are carried out by muslims?

    No, not all muslims are terrorists but it so happens that many terrorists groups adhere to an islamic jihadist ideology. The common retort to this is that the US or Israel or whoever are terrorists as well, but please recognize the big difference - only muslim terrorists are carrying out acts of violence in the name of Allah and justifying it with the name of Allah. The problem is not that there are terrorists, the problem is that terrorist are claiming that Islam commands them to be terrorists.

    Again, I'm not saying all muslims support terrorism or are violent people themselves. I googled to try to find out what islamic authorities are doing to combat the jihadist ideology - I found none. I can draw a few logical conclusions:

    1. No one is really doing anything beyond saying "ISIS does not represent Islam"
    2. No one is able to refute the jihadist theology. The jihadist has a very strong case for their violence in Islam.
    3. Alternatively, they are able to refute the jihadist theology but don't think its important enough to make their material available online.

    and Hulk is right, where are the protests for muslim action against ISIS?
    chat Quote

  15. #12
    daveyats's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    3
    Rep Power
    60
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    6

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    Facepalm... Ignore that last bit. I thought those words were from hulk until I clicked not the link.
    chat Quote

  16. #13
    syed_z's Avatar
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    730
    Threads
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    71
    Likes Ratio
    46

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    Greetings ...

    format_quote Originally Posted by daveyats View Post
    The common retort to this is that the US or Israel or whoever are terrorists as well, but please recognize the big difference - only muslim terrorists are carrying out acts of violence in the name of Allah and justifying it with the name of Allah. The problem is not that there are terrorists, the problem is that terrorist are claiming that Islam commands them to be terrorists.
    It is incorrect to say only misguided Muslims are carrying acts of Terror in the name of God. Israel believes their right to have the Holy land in the name of God either by hook or crook and Secular West (which claims to have entered Renaissance era by abandoning religion) occupying Muslim lands to facilitate that Biblical 'Holy' Goal of theirs is strangely assisting them, and so all attacks by NATO F-16s and Drones and CIA are indirectly being perpetrated in the name of God.

    The issue here is that Muslim Rulers and blocs such as Saudi/Qatar/Kuwait i.e. The Sheikhdoms etc are engaged in proxy wars against Iran and Syria, Hezbollah and these misguided groups are being funded by them who carry out terrorist attacks inside the Muslim world and abroad. US and Israel have funded and supported and even trained such Groups with help of Saudis and Turkey operating inside Syria and Libya and other places. It is a great game and it is not as simple as you think it is!
    chat Quote

  17. #14
    daveyats's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    3
    Rep Power
    60
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    6

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    I believe its not as simple as it looks but just to clarify - are you saying they were paid to do acts of violence in the name of Islam? or the muslim rulers themselves are the one propagating jihadist ideologies and suppressing voices that go against terrorist teachings?
    chat Quote

  18. Report bad ads?
  19. #15
    syed_z's Avatar
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    730
    Threads
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    71
    Likes Ratio
    46
    format_quote Originally Posted by daveyats View Post
    I believe its not as simple as it looks but just to clarify - are you saying they were paid to do acts of violence in the name of Islam? or the muslim rulers themselves are the one propagating jihadist ideologies and suppressing voices that go against terrorist teachings?
    Money could also be a factor, but the fact is that these groups were created by regional countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar in coordination with US/Israel to overthrow regimes of Gaddafi and Bashar Al Assad. For this the funding, logistics and weapons and even extremist ideology is being used by these same countries by hiring Agent Mullas.

    For example the leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi was a prisoner at Camp Bucca, run by US Military in Iraq, from 2004 - 2009 and then came out to become a leader of the rebels whom US and its allies supported against Bashar Al assad to overthrow him.

    If your someone who is in the Western Part of the world and only reply on BBC and CNN for the news, then you are mistaken as they would hid the facts which Media Houses like RT.com and Presstv.Ir would inform their viewers, the dirty game that US and its allies are playing in the region.

    A good example is that Al Qaeda never existed in Iraq before US invaded it, after their invasion it popped up and started killing Shias and whole country got engulfed in Sectarian Violence which a weak Iraq, benefited Israel just how a weak Syria is benefiting Israel now and a weak Libya. Not ignoring the fact that Majority of Muslims that are Sunni are taught by Takfiri Mullas (who get mostly their funding from Saudi) that Shias are Kafirs (disbelievers) and killing them is Jihad.
    | Likes Optimal Unity liked this post
    chat Quote

  20. #16
    Pygoscelis's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    4,009
    Threads
    51
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    31
    Likes Ratio
    17

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    format_quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Questionable, after all these years you still dont get the basics of the Islamic faith, continually distorting Islam to fit your secular liberal world view, observe
    Reading comprehension fail. I was not defining what Islam is. That isn't for me to do. I merely said that I have met people who call themselves muslims who take each of those positions. Like it or not, there are some fairly liberal people out there who call themselves muslims. You, of course, won't agree that they are, but then they probably won't agree you are. That's how these things tend to work.
    chat Quote

  21. #17
    Pygoscelis's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    4,009
    Threads
    51
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    31
    Likes Ratio
    17

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z View Post
    A good example is that Al Qaeda never existed in Iraq before US invaded it, after their invasion it popped up and started killing Shias and whole country got engulfed in Sectarian Violence which a weak Iraq, benefited Israel just how a weak Syria is benefiting Israel now and a weak Libya. Not ignoring the fact that Majority of Muslims that are Sunni are taught by Takfiri Mullas (who get mostly their funding from Saudi) that Shias are Kafirs (disbelievers) and killing them is Jihad.
    I was of the impression that sectarian conflict always existed in Iraq, but was subdued by the brutal iron fist of Sadam Hussein. Is that true or is that western propaganda?
    chat Quote

  22. #18
    ardianto's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Indonesia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    8,551
    Threads
    157
    Rep Power
    127
    Rep Ratio
    61
    Likes Ratio
    57

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    format_quote Originally Posted by daveyats View Post
    Again, I'm not saying all muslims support terrorism or are violent people themselves. I googled to try to find out what islamic authorities are doing to combat the jihadist ideology - I found none. I can draw a few logical conclusions:

    1. No one is really doing anything beyond saying "ISIS does not represent Islam"
    2. No one is able to refute the jihadist theology. The jihadist has a very strong case for their violence in Islam.
    3. Alternatively, they are able to refute the jihadist theology but don't think its important enough to make their material available online.
    ISIS jihadists are known as takfiri, or Muslims who easy to declare kuffar (infidel) toward other Muslims. This attitude that supported by their high skill in mass communication become their power in influence Muslims and recruit new fighters. They send many messages to Muslims world that Muslims are obligated to fight the kuffar (infidel), and if there are Muslims who refuse this call, it's because they already apostate and become allies of kuffar.

    It makes the effort to counter ISIS influence is not easy and should be done carefully. If Muslim governments and organisations make a mistake in this effort, it can make the youth who become target of ISIS recruitment believe that Muslims govts and organisations already apostate. And it makes the effort to save the youth from ISIS becoming harder.

    So, daveyats, it's not true that Muslims govt and other Muslims don't do anything to counter ISIS. They are in effort, but they must do this effort carefully that make them seem like don't do anything.
    chat Quote

  23. #19
    daveyats's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    69
    Threads
    3
    Rep Power
    60
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    6

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    (noted Ardi)
    this just came in:

    STOCKHOLM (AP) — Norway's prime minister and other politicians have joined Muslim leaders and thousands of other people for a demonstration in Oslo against radical Islamists.

    Monday's rally was an initiative by young Norwegian Muslims who wanted to show a united front against Islamic State militants in Syria and Iraq and their sympathizers in Norway.
    Mehtab Afshar, head of the Islamic Council in Norway, told the crowd: "They stand for terrorism, they stand for terror ... and we condemn that in the strongest terms."
    A small radical group in Norway has expressed support for Islamic State militants, angering moderate Muslims in immigrant communities in the country.
    According to the Norwegian security service at least 50 people have left Norway to become foreign fighters for militant groups in Syria.
    chat Quote

  24. Report bad ads?
  25. #20
    hedron's Avatar Limited Member
    brightness_1
    Limited Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    1
    Threads
    0
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    60
    Likes Ratio
    100

    Re: The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous

    I was raised Catholic and having a Pope is convenient. While he doesn't speak for individual Catholics, he speaks for Catholics as a whole. It seems Islam is lacking in such a figure. The Pope has the power to excommunicate those who do not follow Church doctrine, which means they are condemned to hell if they do not make amends. I know that I am nobody to tell Muslims what they should or shouldn't do, but it seems that in situations like this it would be convenient to have an Islamic "Pope" to excommunicate those who stray, as it seems is the case with ISIL.
    | Likes syed_z liked this post
    chat Quote


  26. Hide
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... Last
Hey there! The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. The demand that more Muslims ‘must condemn ISIS’ is racist and ridiculous
Sign Up

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create